Alias Acquisition by Autodesk Finally Complete.

[goleafsgo]

However, the games thing, that's why I said I'd be a bit worried if they decided to focus max on games industries.
I think most people are getting a little too worked up about the whole "Max for games, Maya for film" stuff. One of Doug Walkers (Alias Prez) favourite quotes is that "Customers vote with their wallets", and it is a fact that where Max is most popular is in the games area and where Maya is most popular is in the film area, so it just makes sense from a marketing point of view to continue to target them in that way. But if you are working for a games company and wish to purchase Maya, or work for a film company and wish to purchase Max then I am positive that an Autodesk salesperson/reseller will be more then happy to accomidate you.

[M.E.L.]

Nicely said M.E.L. I agree with most of what you said. Don't want to comment on the rants like "XSI here I come..." since I think it's childish to say the least... However, the games thing, that's why I said I'd be a bit worried if they decided to focus max on games industries. Since I don't wanna be doing games (generally considered low-end... (this doesn't mean I do/don't agree with that) ) in max, I wanna be doing whatever I or MY CLIENTS want me to do in max, because I'm just most familiar with it...

Besides, yeah, as I said several times, I still do have a lot of options... ;) I also use modo (not professionally thou) for example :D

heh totally agreed man. I don't think as a freelance artist you'll have much to worry about in the regard of the apps going down separate paths. Autodesk is looking to profit from this and cutting an investment right out of the picture or segregating the markets to apps is just going to cost them ;) I'm sure you'll be more than able to continue your clients work in Max just like myself and the studio I work at will continue to be able to develop games in Maya ;)

there's always gonna be tons of options out there as the competition heats up and new developers arise (take CySlice as an example to a new company on the rise to combat Zbrush's popularity).

-s

[deepcgi]

I'm holding a job just fine and don't foresee any issues in the near future not having any Autodesk experience whatsoever other than casual encounters :)

You need to lay off the conspiracy theories man... Maya isn't going to go poof in the next 6 months... year or even the next 3 years. Plus, most houses have a slew of software on the shelf that they can easily resort to.. Maya dies, up the ante on the XSI licenses and keep on chuggin with both apps til your pipeline engineers have solidified the port.

Oh... and we do have a choice... many actually... max, maya, houdini, xsi to name a few :)


-s

Pay attention, read the thread before attacking. No one is maya is going away. And in case you haven't noticed. Autodesk owns Maya. Autodesk experience.

[M.E.L.]

Pay attention, read the thread before attacking. No one is maya is going away. And in case you haven't noticed. Autodesk owns Maya. Autodesk experience.

Was there a point to your post or was it all just a bunch of garbled and fragmented sentences? Wanna try that one again?

-s

[mummey]

And in case you haven't noticed. Autodesk owns Maya. Autodesk experience.

Wow. That statement is deep... :rolleyes:

Anyways. Autodesk is a business. They want to make as much money as they can out of their (Alias and Autodesk's) products. This would tend to mean that Maya and 3D Studio Max are here to stay for at least a few more years, most likely longer.

Now take off you Gawd-damn tin-foil hat. You look like a moron. :scream:

[deepcgi]

Sorry about the sentence fragments. I'm holding a sick child.

No one is saying that maya is going away. Yes the apps will keep improving.

Autodesk owns maya. You will have to have Autodesk experience to keep a job. Their market share is a bad thing for the industry.

[deepcgi]

Wow. That statement is deep... :rolleyes:

Anyways. Autodesk is a business. They want to make as much money as they can out of their (Alias and Autodesk's) products. This would tend to mean that Maya and 3D Studio Max are here to stay for at least a few more years, most likely longer.

Now take off you Gawd-damn tin-foil hat. You look like a moron. :scream:

Which part did you not understand? No one is saying the apps are going away!

[M.E.L.]

Sorry about the sentence fragments. I'm holding a sick child.

No one is saying that maya is going away. Yes the apps will keep improving.

Autodesk owns maya. You will have to have Autodesk experience to keep a job. Their market share is a bad thing for the industry.

I don't get this at all man...

Autodesk owns Maya yes... but Maya is it's own world, it's not Autodesk Max... therefore, you don't need any Autodesk experience to use the app... it's not going to change at all in the next few years at all.. guaranteed.

And how is their market share a bad thing? They now have 2 powerful apps under their belt, it's profitable and they are keeping the Alias dev team staffed up... how is this bad for the industry? At the current moment in time, this has NO impact on the industry whatsoever and I'm beginning to see the fact that these apps will continue to simply co-exist but now under one roof.

-s

[Gräck]

You will have to have Autodesk experience to keep a job..
Well I think this is not correct. This is the same as saying you have to develop videogames for Sony because they are the leader in that market.:rolleyes:

[loocas]

I think some people just seem to would be happier if their prophecies were fullfilled :shrug: ofcourse, only because they could claim: "SEE! I was saying that from the very begining, you idiot!"

Complete rubbish if you ask me... :banghead:

[deepcgi]

Where do we disagree? It isn't about what will change, it's about one company with massive market share. We have nothing to worry about. We will spend our lives buying Autodesk products and we will be just fine.

[M.E.L.]

ooooorrrr we could just buy Avid products... or maybe SideFX products? I mean... THEY DO EXIST!!!

[mummey]

Sorry about the sentence fragments. I'm holding a sick child.

No one is saying that maya is going away. Yes the apps will keep improving.

Autodesk owns maya. You will have to have Autodesk experience to keep a job. Their market share is a bad thing for the industry.

Me thinks this has to do with the supposed "Autodesk is the new MS" or "Autodesk is evil" theory. Again, did you eat paint chips as a kid to justify screaming "armageddon!" just because two companies happened to merge.

Last I checked, there was still: Houdini, Lightwave, Modo, C4D, XSI, Zbrush, Animation Master, Blender, Silo, Wings3D, etc...

If Autodesk were to do something stupid, (which I doubt, but many in this thread seem convinced is going to occur), there are MANY other products to switch to. If you are an even half-decent of a talent of an artist, you can make the switch to another app in a couple of days time, if not less.

"The Sky is Falling! This Sky is Falling" :rolleyes:

[BillB]

If you are an even half-decent of a talent of an artist, you can make the switch to another app in a couple of days time, if not less. What if you're a moderate or large sized studio with a heavy investment in custom tools and pipeline for a particular package? A much more difficult transition (speaking from experience). Not impossible, but no "couple of days" that's for sure.

[mummey]

What if you're a moderate or large sized studio with a heavy investment in custom tools and pipeline for a particular package? A much more difficult transition (speaking from experience). Not impossible, but no "couple of days" that's for sure.

Very true. and this is one reason I doubt Autodesk will f*** up.

[Nemoid]

I think Autodesk will keep the two products separate for awhile, as they stated, allowing a good comunication between them, import Maya scenes in Max, and maybe introduce some Kaydara IK solver in Max too, for animation purposes.

As stated earlier, Maya is important because it was adopted largely from the movie industry as well as other important areas, its fully and quite easily scriptable with MEL and this is its strong point. this is what movie studios do all the time .
They script Maya to make their pipeline efficient, then integrate proprietay tools, and maybe other apps in the pipeline (Modo, Zbrush, and more).
Autodesk will continue that way, setting up their list of tools eveyone for a precise task _ alias tools play a major role in that - and assuring the best communication between them, BTW.

A problem could derive from the fact they will have both Maya and Max. personally i don't understand completely how some user can separate them saying Maya is mainly for movie production and Max is games. fact is : both can do movies and games for sure.

for that reason. indeed two overlapping apps, after some year they should end up with a new next generation app able to substitute Maya in studios with no problem, and Max in game pipelines too. so for example, it should be based upon a language similar to MEL but obviously even more advanced, while the workflow should IMO be based on ease of use coupled with power as many apps demonstrate (XSI, Modo , Z brush ).

in the meantime they'll use the fact of having both apps to obviously dominate the market.

As the situation is now, there's a lack of balance. Autodesk is too huge, other apps seem to be little and battling for visibility.

However what i like is that other apps are emerging however. XSI is a good competitor for Maya. i see how its not so heavily adopted compared to Maya despite being a good app.

And also, Modo is emerging as a very promising app, still at its dawn since its not complete yet.It has a great attention to workflow which i hope will grow exponentially.

This is obviously possible, because even if Autodesk's so huge, 3d apps market is limited however,and every software house with great ideas on workflow/features and flexibility can really innovate and win in that partcular field : if we look how many good things apps like XSI, Modo, Silo are introducing in 3D content creation workflow we can see that both Alias and Autodesk suffered from some lack of true innovation respectively in their apps, so as u can see: creating new good technologies and softeware will be difficult even for them.

This being said, for all Maya and Max users, i'd stick with what i use at the moment . They'll never really merge like an A+B thing, and i bet Autodesk will make transitions from one app to the other smooth, and also should make transition from both apps to a possible new one even smoother.

[feiyeung]

I think it's funny how so many of the Maya users are saying things like "lightwave or XSI here I come."

Why are some of you so afraid of Max? I think alot of you are just bitter.

My honest opinion is that whatever they do it will be done well.

Autodesk and Alias both make great products, I think users of either can expect better products and faster advances.

Also why is everyone blaming Autodesk? If I am not mistaken Alias had to accept the deal, right? Or, did Autodesk burst through the doors with automatic weapons and force the deal upon helpless little Alias? No!

Those who are looking to blame someone for all this should blame Alias for being a sell out! Alias sold you out. Despite their growing success. Get over it.


I know there won't be a name change but IF there were I would like MAYAX.

My first implusive thought was exactly like.. damn, it is time to switch to a new App, XSI, here i come. Then I realized that even with current version Maya 7, I can still do shit load of stuff and suffient for my needs for the next 3, 4 years. So Max, you can stay away from my computer at lease for now...

What my insight is that they will keep maya on its last breath and keep it from dying. So they will just doing more of the maintance work then R&D work, and they will skin and take Maya a apart and integrate them into Max. IF Max decided to take its foot hold in the motion movie industry or just be more "functional" like maya does now. Max will have to try to assmulate maya code /design into Max. So who knows in 3, 4 versions later, max may have a good part of maya running under it's hood. If maya successful assmulated into max so I wouldn't mind having Max on my computer.

But also keep in mind, Alisa has more then just one product, their studio tool is also one of the most widely used tools in the indurstry. Which Autodesk also love to get their hand on it. So alisa will not be all dead. They will become a part of the product line.

As far as "Alias sold you out..." Alias had become a private hold company a while ago. So it was a decision of few top stock shareholder that sold Alias out for some quick cash.

I would like to give thanks to the developers / master mind who has created such wonderful 3D apps. Hopefully with their skills and knowlege, I think they will be snach by other tops 3D app companies or game companies.

[deepcgi]

SoftImage should by all rights have been the market leader by the late 90's, except that the app was left languishing in complacency after being acquired by another large company promising investment dollars and innovation - Microsoft.

What year was it that SI first had Inverse Kinematics? 1936?

[arquebus]

Maya is unique in that it was designed correctly from the start, the UI and modeling features havent changed hardly at all from version one. The problem is that Maya has an "organic" workflow that gives a lot of advanced features in a simple interface, it is very dificult to improve on it without breaking that simplicity. I think Alias purposly let themselves get bought cheap by Autodesk because they knew they could never appreciably improve the product and therefore in the long term it looked better to let their product become part of a larger established company that has a secure future. So thats the reason you havent heard anything about future development of Maya, to be honest they are just going to let it ride and let things fall where they may.

[Rayan]

we must wait...until maya 8 go up.....

[loocas]

The interesting thing is how all the maya users think that Max is shit?! :rolleyes:

I kinda wonder whether it would be the other way around if Alias bought Autodesk, so if Max users were talking nonsence about Maya? I doubt it, but this entire thread is a one big proof of people making-up catastrophic stories just to 1) blame Autodesk, 2) trhow mud at Max and 3) scare themselves to death...

:rolleyes:

[opus13]

The interesting thing is how all the maya users think that Max is shit?! :rolleyes:

if you want to see something laughable, go to the maya forum and look at the 'maya 8 wishlist' thread. there is no less than 9 separate requests on the first page alone for 3ds max functions or similar.

for all the bitching about how bad 3ds max is... it seems to have the features that maya users want.

[loocas]

if you want to see something laughable, go to the maya forum and look at the 'maya 8 wishlist' thread. there is no less than 9 separate requests on the first page alone for 3ds max functions or similar.

for all the bitching about how bad 3ds max is... it seems to have the features that maya users want.

:D:D:D:D now you've just cracked me up! :buttrock:

[deepcgi]

I'll wager those Max-like Maya 8 requests come, predominantly, from Max to Maya switchers. I deal with it everyday. We switched from Max to Maya about a year ago and the requests for Max-style MEL scripts were a daily chore for the first 4 months.

And I wouldn't feel so secure that the Max team has some implied seniority over the Maya or Kaydara teams. They are all part of Autodesk, now. The smartest among them will have their way.

This wasn't a race that Max users won and now you don't have to worry about Maya being shoved in your face anymore. Chances are it will be shoved in your face constantly from now on. In my opinion, it is a bad turn of events for everyone when any single entity secures such a large market share by acquisition. They could lag behind competitors by a full 18 months, ripping-off whole development strategies, and hardly feel the pinch. Good for them? Sure. Bad for innovators? Absolutely.

[opus13]

And I wouldn't feel so secure that the Max team has some implied seniority over the Maya or Kaydara teams. They are all part of Autodesk, now. The smartest among them will have their way.

what i posted has nothing to do with a perceived level of 'security'. it was a simple observation, and nothing more. if you are looking for an (in)security issue, just look one page back at a post by arquebus. thats a psychologosts wet dream right there.

im just hoping that maya development will finally get off their asses in the areas of modelling and texturing, and start to clean up the interface. they have been fairly complacent hiding behind a shield of zealots, and with luck the little bubble will dissolve. they may have the same amount bugs as anyone else, but they have strengths that my job requirements are being focused in on.

once they do that, i will make the switch to maya full time.

[loocas]

And the catastrophic scenarios just keep on coming... :bounce:

[KidderD]

The interesting thing is how all the maya users think that Max is shit?! :rolleyes:

I kinda wonder whether it would be the other way around if Alias bought Autodesk, so if Max users were talking nonsence about Maya? I doubt it, but this entire thread is a one big proof of people making-up catastrophic stories just to 1) blame Autodesk, 2) trhow mud at Max and 3) scare themselves to death...

:rolleyes:

This entire thread is only proof of:

1. People who participate in this thread, most respectable ppl aren't, I mean, man we already did this about 4 months ago.

[loocas]

This entire thread is only proof of:

1. People who participate in this thread, most respectable ppl aren't, I mean, man we already did this about 4 months ago.

:D yeah... including the two of us thou... :blush:

[arquebus]

First you say
if you are looking for an (in)security issue, just look one page back at a post by arquebus. thats a psychologosts wet dream right there.

And then you drop these pearls of wisdom
im just hoping that maya development will finally get off their asses in the areas of modelling and texturing, and start to clean up the interface.

Sorry, but it takes zero brains just to say something needs to get developed. If you can name any specifac examples of how Maya can get "cleaned up", then fine, I'll have a discussian with you. If not, youre just trolling.


To take poly modeling tools for example, I think its very funny that people want to see Maya have more Max like features because I think both Maya or Max have a very slow poly modeling workflow. But they are both very integrated into the overall interface layout, so you cant change them without fundementally redesigning the entire thing from the ground up so that the program becomes another program or something new all together. Modo has been getting a lot of attention lately for its fast workflow and intuitive interface ( I personally think Silo has a faster workflow and Hexagon has a more intuitive interface as sub-d modelers, but whatever). But Ive never heard anyone say that Maya should become like Modo, it is just something that they have added to their toolkit, noone wants Maya to change.

[KidderD]

:D yeah... including the two of us thou... :blush:

Yeah, I try to hide the guilt, with the shame.

[deepcgi]

This entire thread is proof that artists should take more classes in debate, logic or economics. It isn't about the lively exchange of ideas, it is about not worrying about yourself. What doom and gloom do I keep professing? How many times did I indicate that the apps will keep getting better and better and that Maya and Max will be around for years? And how many times have you interpreted it to mean the opposite.

Here, I will make a happy prediction for you. Maya's short term future is secure. And that is all that anyone can ask for. The Maya development team will finally spend some time perfecting the app instead of building up some crazy new feature set, because the necessary competition for market share with Max has been eliminated. How wonderfully stable. I hope somebody buys Mental Images, too.

[M.E.L.]

This entire thread is proof that artists should take more classes in debate, logic or economics. It isn't about the lively exchange of ideas, it is about not worrying about yourself. What doom and gloom do I keep professing? How many times did I indicate that the apps will keep getting better and better and that Maya and Max will be around for years? And how many times have you interpreted it to mean the opposite.

Here, I will make a happy prediction for you. Maya's short term future is secure. And that is all that anyone can ask for. The Maya development team will finally spend some time perfecting the app instead of building up some crazy new feature set, because the necessary competition for market share with Max has been eliminated. How wonderfully stable. I hope somebody buys Mental Images, too.

quoted for the absolute fact that clueless people make the most wonderful arguments ever. I hereby open the flood gates for flaming of deepcgi for the "This entire thread is proof that artists should take more classes in debate, logic or economics."

keep up the good work buddy, that comment is sure gonna win you a prime spot in this industry :)

-s

[mummey]

Yeah, at this point the thread has gone 200 posts too many so I'm not going to encourage it any further.

I'll just make another entry in my ever-growing ignore list. ;)

[rakmaya]

Where do we disagree? It isn't about what will change, it's about one company with massive market share. We have nothing to worry about. We will spend our lives buying Autodesk products and we will be just fine.

In that case get ready to pay up 400K US dollars to buy Autodesk's 3D Studio Max-XSI-ModSilo v99.01 product. This way keep it simple and according to your point of view and according to your defenition of what a company is. One product rules the world and the art. What a happy world!

[rakmaya]

This entire thread is proof that artists should take more classes in debate, logic or economics. It isn't about the lively exchange of ideas, it is about not worrying about yourself. What doom and gloom do I keep professing? How many times did I indicate that the apps will keep getting better and better and that Maya and Max will be around for years? And how many times have you interpreted it to mean the opposite.

Here, I will make a happy prediction for you. Maya's short term future is secure. And that is all that anyone can ask for. The Maya development team will finally spend some time perfecting the app instead of building up some crazy new feature set, because the necessary competition for market share with Max has been eliminated. How wonderfully stable. I hope somebody buys Mental Images, too.


Let us build a site called CGEconomics or CGAutodesk then? Oh! wait... DeepCGEconomics is better according to your "economics" right?:rolleyes: This will help artists learn economics so they can be better artists for debates!

[deepcgi]

Rakmaya, I rest my case. Read the thread again. You're on my side. I was saying exactly what you just said and yet you are attacking me. Ignore away.

[deepcgi]

quoted for the absolute fact that clueless people make the most wonderful arguments ever.-s

If you were Autodesk and were putting together the yearly development budget for Maya, would you spend dollars to grow market share for Maya in the games market - where you would be destabilizing the Max user base, or spend it according to the Maya's strengths while maintaining the status quo of the entire user base?

[loocas]

If you were Autodesk and were putting together the yearly development budget for Maya, would you spend dollars to grow market share for Maya in the games market - where you would be destabilizing the Max user base, or spend it according to the Maya's strengths while maintaining the status quo of the entire user base?

I've always believed this depended on the users... :rolleyes:

[Ibanezhead]

Did any of us actually think that things would just continue the way they are? I personally like change. I really hope they scrap both in a few years and give us something totally new. I also look forward to maybe having a 3D package that is available that is "THE" industry standard. When are any of us ever in question about what 2D app we should have down on our resumes? I hope one day it will be the same with 3D, and I hope this is what Autodesk will be up to eventually. Sure they will continue to develop Maya, and Max for a few years, but certainly not forever. Innovation will choose otherwise.

[loocas]

Did any of us actually think that things would just continue the way they are? I personally like change. I really hope they scrap both in a few years and give us something totally new. I also look forward to maybe having a 3D package that is available that is "THE" industry standard. When are any of us ever in question about what 2D app we should have down on our resumes? I hope one day it will be the same with 3D, and I hope this is what Autodesk will be up to eventually. Sure they will continue to develop Maya, and Max for a few years, but certainly not forever. Innovation will choose otherwise.

I don't think this is anything good... :shrug: I know it would make it that much more easier on the artists regarding "which 3d app to choose", however, there wouldn't be much of innovation and development further on in the field of 3d... :sad:

[Ibanezhead]

I don't think this is anything good... :shrug: I know it would make it that much more easier on the artists regarding "which 3d app to choose", however, there wouldn't be much of innovation and development further on in the field of 3d... :sad:

Paintshop Pro isn't the industry standard in 2D, but they certainly keep Adobe on their toes. There will always be modos, silos, etc...

[agreenster]

Doh

http://highend3d.com/news/studios/77.html

[loocas]

Doh

http://highend3d.com/news/studios/77.html



Who reads all the pressrelease crap, already knows... :p

[rock]

I wish the National Post would post, instead, why with 350 employees, sometimes mental ray plugin is unchecked from its plugin menu since version 4? :)

[Halduke]

I wonder what will happen to all the universities, institutes and schools that teach CG/ CAnimation with Maya.

[chrisWhite]

My profs didn't seam too concerned about it, I guess they'll just go with the flow.

[CB_3D]

I wish the National Post would post, instead, why with 350 employees, sometimes mental ray plugin is unchecked from its plugin menu since version 4? :)

The 351st guy was responsible for that, but he was fired..

[loocas]

Has anyone mentioned the Adobe Macromedia aquisition yet actually?

You see, there's still Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Photoshop and GoLive! on the market... aren't they?! :rolleyes:

[time and space]

Has anyone mentioned the Adobe Macromedia aquisition yet actually?

You see, there's still Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Photoshop and GoLive! on the market... aren't they?! :rolleyes:

me too im interested to hear about this cause i been using macromedias products for a number of years now. Flash and Freehand.

[Kabab]

I wonder what will happen to all the universities, institutes and schools that teach CG/ CAnimation with Maya.
Nothing is going to change....

Companies will continue using Maya etc do you have any idea of what it costs to totaly change your main application in a game/film/design company...

As long as industry continues to use Maya schools will teach it..

As long as someone is willing to pay good money for it they will keep selling it..

[blinxpro]

Maya users can just relax. I'm sure Max didn't earn the largest user base by making a poor product.

I just think that everyone should do themselves a favor and settle down.

Autodesk is going to do it right. They didn't become what they are today by being complete idiots.

It has been very amusing to see people get so worked up over this. Just take some deep breaths and repeat after me: It will be okay. This is not the end. It will be okay...

!WARNING! - OFF TOPIC
Judging by this thread I'd hate to see what would happen if Ford bought out GM (or vise versa). U.S. 2nd Civil War?

[arquebus]

Maya users can just relax. I'm sure Max didn't earn the largest user base by making a poor product.

I just think that everyone should do themselves a favor and settle down.

Autodesk is going to do it right. They didn't become what they are today by being complete idiots.

It has been very amusing to see people get so worked up over this. Just take some deep breaths and repeat after me: It will be okay. This is not the end. It will be okay...

Gee thanks for your insightful words, Im sure everyone was hysterical here :rolleyes:

Now if you dont mind some people would like to try and make some speculations on what path Autodesk will take on further development of Maya, such as: partial modification to existing interface, rebuild from the ground up the same interface, build an entirely new interface, combine features with Max, etc. I personally would like to see Maya frozen for a while till they come up with something that users accept.

[halo]

Maya users can just relax. I'm sure Max didn't earn the largest user base by making a poor product.

market dominance & success in no way implies the product is better than the competition, in fact it usually means the opposite, in fact there's some pretty good examples of how the opposite is true...thats usually because the widest part of the market isnt neccessarily at the peak...its a case of lowest common denominator.

I quite like burger king and macdonalds...

[CB_3D]

market dominance & success in no way implies the product is better than the competition, in fact it usually means the opposite, in fact there's some pretty good examples of how the opposite is true...thats usually because the widest part of the market isnt neccessarily at the peak...its a case of lowest common denominator.

I quite like burger king and macdonalds...

Over here Burger King has no milkshakes...i don´t get this

[blinxpro]

Gee thanks for your insightful words, Im sure everyone was hysterical here :rolleyes:

Now if you dont mind some people would like to try and make some speculations on what path Autodesk will take on further development of Maya, such as: partial modification to existing interface, rebuild from the ground up the same interface, build an entirely new interface, combine features with Max, etc. I personally would like to see Maya frozen for a while till they come up with something that users accept.

You must have skipped the part about taking a few deep breaths. Try it, it sounds like it might do you some good. I don't mind, go on beat the dead horse some more, I'm loving every minute of it. I guess I just didn't realize that your 2 cents were worth more than my 2 cents. All I'm saying is that all this ranting and raving is pointless. You can dream up every scenario possible but it would just be pointless. I think we all got the point that this thread wasn't going anywhere somewhere around page 5. Well at least most of us got that around page 5, some I guess will get it around page 50.

market dominance & success in no way implies the product is better than the competition... ... I quite like burger king and macdonalds...



You're right, but it can be a pretty good indicator. Good comparison! Yeah, your right most consumers probably give as much thought toward which $5 combo meal that they will purchase to satisfy there hunger as they would in choosing a $3500 piece of software that will most commonly be used for business.

Thank you guys for helping me see what an ignorant fool I am.

On with the entertainment!

[ukyo]

Over here Burger King has no milkshakes...i don´t get this


wow no milkshakes, man that sucks.

[halo]

You're right, but it can be a pretty good indicator. Good comparison! Yeah, your right most consumers probably give as much thought toward which $5 combo meal that they will purchase to satisfy there hunger as they would in choosing a $3500 piece of software that will most commonly be used for business.

Thank you guys for helping me see what an ignorant fool I am.

On with the entertainment!

well you kind of buy whats good for the business, so thats the point, you dont readily just jump on the largest share product just cos its popular, because it doesnt mean its right or what you want or any good...it might be, it might be not. It could be argued that max earnt its position by just being 10x cheaper than maya when it was born...market share and seat boasts are playground stuff for students to wank over...counts for shit in the workplace.

[loocas]

well you kind of buy whats good for the business, so thats the point, you dont readily just jump on the largest share product just cos its popular, because it doesnt mean its right or what you want or any good...it might be, it might be not. It could be argued that max earnt its position by just being 10x cheaper than maya when it was born...market share and seat boasts are playground stuff for students to wank over...counts for shit in the workplace.

Well... going for something being as widely used as max is, can also be an advantage!

1) Loads of people already know how to operate the package

2) Thousands of free/commercial 3rd party tools have been developed for the software

3) also from the marketing point of view, the stronger the package, the longer it will stay

4) Not to forget the userbase, support and popularity...

[charleyc]

...counts for shit in the workplace.

Not to the workplaces that own them.

[deepcgi]

Well... going for something being as widely used as max is, can also be an advantage!

1) Loads of people already know how to operate the package

2) Thousands of free/commercial 3rd party tools have been developed for the software

3) also from the marketing point of view, the stronger the package, the longer it will stay

4) Not to forget the userbase, support and popularity...




5) And If you come to realize that over the past few years you have had little luck in growing your marketshare beyond the global growth in the market itself, you can buy out the competition and raise your prices.

If you can't beat your competitor in the figure skating competition, break their knees.

[deepcgi]

don't get tense everyone. I'm just trying to paint a picture. That's all this is about.

[loocas]

If you can't beat your competitor in the figure skating competition, break their knees.

Can't help it, but I really don't get your comparisons man... :shrug:

[rock]

Can't help it, but I really don't get your comparisons man... :shrug:

Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerigan ice skating incident.

[loocas]

Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerigan ice skating incident.

If it was like that, then this is sad... :cry:

However, it has nothing to do with Autodesk and Alias acquisition... :curious:

[charleyc]

I am sure this has already been brought up, but Autodesk's anual income is probably about 90% CAD software driven. Max, and now Maya, will be a drop in their big bucket. It really stands to reason that the Alias acquisition had less to do with Maya, and it being Max competition, and more to do with other tools Alias offered. Alais had their hands in a few very respectable markets (such as the automotive industry) with its high end CAD/Design tools that I am sure Autodesk was more than anxious to get a hold of for that price. In our world, Max and Maya are big players. But in terms of the money moving around in the rest of the world (and more importantly, the Autodesk world), these two programs aren't so big. The 10+ years Autodesk has offered this line of product, to me, shows that they are interested in this market and want to offer what they can, but this market will never be what the CAD market is.

In terms of comparison, this acquisition is more like Wal-Mart buying the very successful mom and pop store on the corner. Autodesk is easily large enough that Alias could not have been enough of a threat (at least not these days) to really concern Autodesk's bottom line. To them it was an easy way to grad a little more at a good price.

[Ahmattu]

You see, there's still Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Photoshop and GoLive! on the market... aren't they?! :rolleyes:

and yes they start suppoting and selling video training for them.

[Ahmattu]

ok, this is the deal

they'll develope max for achitectures, and games and whatever it's strong in, and keep it away from character animation and the other stuff that Maya is strong in,

and will do the same thing to Maya :hmm:

isn't it fare this way??

[GoranNF]

I'm sorry for bringing this topic back alive,but I am confused.I want to know the facts,and I don't want to search this whole big topic to find my answer,so......So my question is,are they merging Maya and Max into one product?Is this planned or somethin'?So are they going to stop developing both of the software and create 1 whole new programme?Thanx already.


Nas

[alexentremont]

I'm sorry for bringing this topic back alive,but I am confused.I want to know the facts,and I don't want to search this whole big topic to find my answer,so......So my question is,are they merging Maya and Max into one product?Is this planned or somethin'?So are they going to stop developing both of the software and create 1 whole new programme?Thanx already.


Nas

See the answers from Autodesk: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/index?siteID=123112&id=5970886

[charleyc]

There has been nothing too official about what their ultimate plans are, but the current info is that there will be no change to either production for a little while at least. There have been some rumors that Maya will be marketed for film and Max to most every where else, specifically games...but that is not confirmed. Beyond that is lots of speculation.

[hanskloss]

I really think this discussion should be closed. It's all speculation and majority of the posts are just stirring and reinforcing rumors that are 99% inacurate. Rest assured if things change people will know. For now the current Alias software lineup is safe, and will be for near future.

[arquebus]

I really think this discussion should be closed. It's all speculation and majority of the posts are just stirring and reinforcing rumors that are 99% inacurate. Rest assured if things change people will know. For now the current Alias software lineup is safe, and will be for near future.
Im really tired of people coming on this thead playing mommy and telling everyone to hush hush. Yes it is very obvious that Autodesk is going to keep Maya around, they are not going to throw away a huge userbase. Still you will find on every 3D app forum that users like to speculate and request features. And since Alias has been bought out, that leaves many new options for future change. Yes we will know when things change, but the question is will we be informed before or after changes are made.

[plodej]

Im really tired of people coming on this thead playing mommy and telling everyone to hush hush. Yes it is very obvious that Autodesk is going to keep Maya around, they are not going to throw away a huge userbase. Still you will find on every 3D app forum that users like to speculate and request features. And since Alias has been bought out, that leaves many new options for future change. Yes we will know when things change, but the question is will we be informed before or after changes are made.

And your point is? That's exactly the reason why I agree that this discussion should end because there seems to be no ending to this marathon of speculation.

[arquebus]

And your point is?
My point is you can be a lemming and accept what Autodesk thinks is best for you, or you can actively make an analysis of what your needs are for further development of a product you use and share those ideas with others.

[charleyc]

My point is you can be a lemming and accept what Autodesk thinks is best for you, or you can actively make an analysis of what your needs are for further development of a product you use and share those ideas with others.

Sounds more like a General Discussion than News though.

[arquebus]

Sounds more like a General Discussion than News though.
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=310828&highlight=maya

[Digitalink]

Max is a tool, Maya is a tool
Points make polys
you still gotta push points around UV mapping is still a pain
Animation is still keyframes and curves
Phong is phong
Blinn is Blinn
If you really are THAT concerned you can still use Maya 7 for years to come
All tools have their quirks
You CAN do feature work with Max
You CAN do game work with Maya
Autodesk is a company out to make money as all companies do
It will do what is best for Autodesk
and the users will benefit in the end
THAT has always been the way of all companies
Satisfy the customer and they will make money
see previous statement about Autodesk
Max is a tool
Maya is a tool

Relax the tools will only get better

Here endth the lesson

[alexentremont]

This thread is like the bad guy in cheap movies: you think it's dead but suddenly it moves again!

[Kris-S]

Max is a tool, Maya is a tool
Points make polys
you still gotta push points around UV mapping is still a pain
Animation is still keyframes and curves
Phong is phong
Blinn is Blinn
If you really are THAT concerned you can still use Maya 7 for years to come
All tools have their quirks
You CAN do feature work with Max
You CAN do game work with Maya
Autodesk is a company out to make money as all companies do
It will do what is best for Autodesk
and the users will benefit in the end
THAT has always been the way of all companies
Satisfy the customer and they will make money
see previous statement about Autodesk
Max is a tool
Maya is a tool

Relax the tools will only get better

Here endth the lesson



But it's people that have spent years perfecting the use of one "tool" that when changing to another get frustrated because you can't find a simple button to do what it is that you could do in the other application and find that you have to spend hours researching so that you can find the button that you were after only to find out that 5 minutes down the track your right back where you started and can't find another little elusive button again and then you have to search for yet another tutorial or something only to discover that it's right there in front of you but uses different terminology and you get so frustrated at yourself and that "TOOL" you feel like picking up your computer along with your lively hood and income and dropping it off the 10th floor and then realizing your mistake as you see it in tiny little bits on the pavement and then decide “ bugger it I’ll give farming ago” then when you actually try it you find out that your just not cut out for that type of work and getting you hands all covered in animal unmentionables isn't your idea of fun... (Deep breath)..... So you snap out of your delusion, suck it in and do that research on that new tool that’s in front of you so that you don't end up going insane on a farm covered in whatever it that is unmentionable that animals have. Yes it’s just a tool but I see a lot of frustrated people out there if ether one or the other get dropped.

[DrFx]

This thread is like the bad guy in cheap movies: you think it's dead but suddenly it moves again!

Lol!






(these characters added to fill minimum message quota)

[deepcgi]

...
It will do what is best for Autodesk
and the users will benefit in the end
THAT has always been the way of all companies
Satisfy the customer and they will make money
...

Read the bit about J. Rockefeller, again.

[Stahlberg]

Read the bit about J. Rockefeller, again.
Capitalism works and customers USUALLY come out better and better as time goes by. The longer the time period, the closer to 100% is that number.

Yes it’s just a tool but I see a lot of frustrated people out there if ether one or the other get dropped.
IF it happens, and IF there's nothing nearly as good to replace it at that time, and IF there are no special deals to ease the pain, etc... Temporarily perhaps. Then they'll start using another app, and 2 months later they won't be that frustrated anymore. 2 or 3 years later they'll look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.

My point is you can be a lemming and accept what Autodesk thinks is best for you, or you can actively make an analysis of what your needs are for further development of a product you use and share those ideas with others.
Yeah, but isn't there a lot of complaining and whining and anger and useless arm-waving in this thread also? IMO this is bad, it could give the casual reader the impression the entire 3d industry is going to hell in a handbasket.
You can try to guess the future as much as you like, it's bound to be 99% wrong at this stage anyway. As would mine, and anybody else's. Everyone will have plenty of time to analyse and decide and take action, if the deal goes south. You'll have years, probably. You can try to analyse your needs for further development, but that's just a wishlist and we all know how much they matter to the suits. You can share your wishlist with other users, but I think you should make a new thread for that, in the app-specific forum of your choice.

[hightillidie]

Now I wanna see autodesk buy Cinema4d.


yay. o.o

not really.

[N_krypsh_N]

ok, this is the deal

they'll develope max for achitectures, and games and whatever it's strong in, and keep it away from character animation and the other stuff that Maya is strong in,

and will do the same thing to Maya :hmm:

isn't it fare this way??


wow thanx man, that really solves the problem.:rolleyes:

[N_krypsh_N]

PEOPLE!!!

where o where did you loose your minds???

Q)Why do MAX users use MAX?

A)many reasons, like they are comfortable with the ui and workflow.

Q)Why do Maya users use Maya?

A)many reasons, like they are comfortable with the ui and workflow.

Q)what otions does Autodesk have?

A) a>create a new hybrid app called MAXA and loose all of their clients because neither Maya users nor MAX users would be comfortable with the new MAXA ui and workflow
b>shelf Maya...still loosing half of their clients
c>keep them both, pleasing all clients and not wasting 197 mil.

hmmm.....poor Autodesk, tough decision.

I mean if MAX for instance was discontinued, yes, I would HAVE TO change to another app, most probably Maya. But why would Autodesk take that chance, and maybe loose me and countless others to the ever growing competitor XSI?

The integration of the two in my opinion would never work either.
I'm one of those people who started off with MAX. I started to get comfortable with the controls when I said to myself....oh my God oh my God Maya is so cool, so many possibilities. So I switched to Maya. After a while I realized, man all of this stuff I'm trying so hard to accomplish in Maya I could do in minutes in MAX. So I switched back.
I switched back to MAX because I can work with MAX better than with any other app. Autodesk knows this and wouldn't dissappoint anyone. Not me, not Maya users.

[Kris-S]

What I understand is that they are going to keep both applications and develop a tool that bridges the two applications together ... best of both worlds really.

[almux]

Now I wanna see autodesk buy Cinema4d.


yay. o.o

not really.

:cry: Ooh gosh... what a horrible idea!
Cinema 4D is Mac friendly.
Maya is actually starting to get Mac friendly (thei're in real efforts - at least till few months away)
Autodesk doesn't care less for Mac or Macusers

Alias will have a hard time enough to keep on making stuff for the Mac platform
Autodesk buying C4D would be the end of this 3D app on Mac!
No use to have C4D and Maya together!

[almux]

I really think this discussion should be closed. It's all speculation and majority of the posts are just stirring and reinforcing rumors that are 99% inacurate. Rest assured if things change people will know. For now the current Alias software lineup is safe, and will be for near future.

Right!
One of your colleague from Alias Lead Developement wrote me back and certified me in the same way.
He also said as Maya 7's working fine on New Intel Mac (yet slow).
Alias seams to have kept it's independence with their development strategy.
So, only a hope for next coming up Universal binaries version (Maya 7.5 ?)

Best regards

[ukyo]

OMG you all, talk about beating a dead horse. its a good thing cyberspace is infinite. just add a new hard drive and we can keep this thread going for another 100 gigs.

[arza]

Really tired???

Having nightmares in ur dreams?
Having trouble in the new situation?

DON'T WORRY
AUTODESK ANNOUNCED That can BUY ur nightmares and ur troubles...i'am sure that it isn't going to be merged into one.

[WMBrown]

"The acquisition of Alias is about fulfilling Autodesk's vision: To give design and creative professionals the best software tools

i'll admit, being a MAX user over Maya, this kinda makes me think that the heads of Autodesk realise the strength of Maya, in a way, i can see this merger only strengthening both Max users and Maya users since maybe in future versions of Max there may be the Maya tools...

this sounds like good news to me personally, if things go like how i imagine it could be, it'd be like getting Two, Two, Two cg packages in one! :) (assuming that they integrate them together that is.)

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