3D school in Great Britain?

[jubba]

bournemouth university is a good one - they do a three year degree course that is accredited (is that the right term) in the US, you need a decent degree to get the H1B work visa (unless you are lucky enough to get sponsored for an O1 visa, unlikely for a fresh grad though). The course is called the Batchelor of Art in Computer Visualisation and Animation (BACVA) - if you are coming from an EU country you can probably get a grant from the education authority in your country (I'm assuming you are not a UK citizen, if you are from the UK then there are loans/assistance of sorts).

There is an animation component in the course, as well as quite a lot of theory (like about how computer graphics actually works) and other CG-related stuff. Like any courset he work produced by the students ranges from absolutely brilliant to not that great - like any course this is down to how much you put into it. You can't be spoonfed greatness - you have to work hard at it and make the best of what is on offer.

As to employment - well, ILM (or indeed any US employer) straight out of a European university might be a bit of a stretch. Not entirely impossible, but just very unlikely. US work visas are quite hard to get and it costs the employer several thousand dollars to sort it all out (sometimes without any success I might add), as a result they'll want to spend their money on someone with experience who is guaranteed to deliver. However, Bournemouth has a very high success rate of getting people into employment in the UK at places like Double Negative, MPC, Framestore etc and once you have got experience their degree is a big help in getting hired by US companies.

There are other courses out there in the UK - but this is the leader. No, I don't work there ;-)

J

[AmyScott-Murray]

bournemouth university is a good one - they do a three year degree course that is accredited (is that the right term) in the US, you need a decent degree to get the H1B work visa
J

Does anyone know what 'accredited' means in this context? Is this like an official status which some UK universities have and some don't?

Does a 'decent' degree mean a first or whatever, or a degree from a particular place with a good reputation?

I'm currently doing Animation at Duncan of Jordanstone in Dundee, and working on my own modelling projects as well. I'd hate to think my work is being wasted in terms of a possible US visa in the future, because I went to the 'wrong' school.

If anyone can shed some light on this it will be most appreciated, particularly the 'accredited' part.

Thanks

Amy : )

[jubba]

I'm not sure what the specific definition is, but I believe that it basicallly means a proper 3 year university degree or equivalent. I'm pretty certain that the course at Duncan of Jordanstone would count for a visa application ;-)

j

[jubba]

what are the resources like up at DofJ these days? I haven't checked the course for a very long time - years ago they had a very good standard of kit, but it slipped a bit in the 90s.


btw: I don't think you need a first for a US work visa, I'm not even sure whether the class of the degree counts at all (obviously not a fail). I shall enquire of my colleagues who have been there, done that, and come back.


hope it helps


j

[AmyScott-Murray]

Thanks for your replies : )

The course here is very much geared to animation as an art form (!) and not software or even 3d specific. I got into the second year of the course, and we don't seriously touch Maya until 3rd year... it's just as well i've been teaching myself too. We do at the moment line tests on paper, a bit of aftereffects, some ppl use Flash... they want to teach you the basic principles and it's up to you how you implement them. Oh, and we actually get life drawing now too :)

They've shut down the stop motion department (due to funding issues i think) which is a shame because even though it's not my main interest I was looking forward to having a go at it.

Resources-wise, the Maya suite seems to be pretty well set up although as I said I've hardly been in there as yet. For everything else they still use Macs....

They also have some new tutors who seem to be really raising the standard for ppl graduating in the next few years. I'm lucky to be there now and not a few years ago.. i've spoken to people who were undergrads four or five years ago and they say the whole course has seriously improved since then.

It's good to know you have friends who've made the transatlantic move and lived to tell the tale... i went yesterday to the official site about visa regulations and it made my head hurt. From what I can gather I'm looking at at least 3 years in a decent job over here before I could think about moving.

[matmonkfish]

Hi amy_517,

I graduated from dundee university animation course last year.

I thought that overall it was a good course, i wouldnt worry that you are at the wrong place, other than it isnt bournmouth which seems to have all the industry contacts, but there are definatly a lot worse courses and the art dundee art college as a whole is a good experience.

Its good to see you are working on your own maya stuff, that model i see of yours is looking good, and its best to put all the groundwork in now, before year 4.

My main tip would be to make use of the 2nd year, it really does teach you a lot overall. The line tests will be a good foundation.

Then in the third year i would make your main concern gearing up for making your final film. (if you do get to make your own final film, i believe they want to go down a group project path)

Make sure you know how to rig, model animate and everything in maya before you go into your final year, even if you arent taught properly and have to go it alone.

The major downfall for our year was in year 3 we werent being taught maya properly. (i think its better now). but if this is the case instead of sitting round complaining go it alone, thats what i did.. (obviously still try and fit in to the projects you get) then in the 4th year you will be well prepared.

In fact if i was in your postion now, i would take all chance out of it, spend a couple of hundred pounds on dvds covering fundamentals of rigging, modeling, texturing, animation. (i personally dont like the gnomon ones in the library, and you have to go up to the library to watch them, plus learing from books is difficult) and just get streets ahead.

you dont need to be taught by them, take from them what you can and then push it further. I find myself buying dvds now which i wish i had at the time.
It is a wise investment. It also takes away the angst that somehow they are not teaching you right. Students will always complain of this.

i feel if you rely on the course to much then they will hold you back. ive seen it happen (any course unless its super brilliant) Treat the course as an environment for getting what you want to achieve done, take from it what you can, fit in the best you can, but as i say dont rely on it. Be autonomous.

good dvds, maybe other people have got suggestions:

http://store.alias.com/dr/sat4/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=782136&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=41107&CID=0&CUR=840&DSP=&PGRP=0&ABCODE=&CACHE_ID=0

(for cartoony stuff, if cartoony is your route, most peoples uni work is a bit cartoony. just imagine if you had a top quality squashy stretchy rig, they wont teach you that)


http://store.alias.com/dr/sat4/ec_MAIN.Entry10?SP=10023&PN=1&V1=645405&xid=41107&CID=0&CUR=840&DSP=&PGRP=0&ABCODE=&CACHE_ID=0

http://store.alias.com/dr/sat4/ec_MAIN.Entry10?SP=10023&PN=1&V1=776607&xid=41107&CID=0&CUR=840&DSP=&PGRP=0&ABCODE=&CACHE_ID=0

and others such as this.


take from this advice what you will, but its a clean way to learn.

They are pretty expensive, but all i can say is that i was in your postion now i would do that. (but i can only talk from the perspective of my experiences on the course, but id say either way, this kind of stuff should improve you in the end. I was constantly trawling through little tit bit tutorials on the net)

It could save so much messing around. We spent most of our 3rd year arguing.

[kriscain]

I'd recommend Escape Studios in Shepherds Bush London.
I went there in August for a three month intensive and it is the best teaching I have had the pleasure of experiencing.

All the tutors are professionals in the industry... my tutor worked on Harry Potter and The honda ad! Pretty cool..

You learn more in three months than what i've seen people learn in three years... Only catch is the price tag :)

[AmyScott-Murray]

Thanks for the reply matmonkfish : )

Can I ask what you're doing now? (Cool job...? it would be good to know what ppl from Dundee move on to!)

I agree totally - I had the same attitude to my previous HND course as I do to this one, which is to get the most out of the opportuity to study whether that's from teachers, books, dvd's or pestering people online :) Coursework can be a good starting point for things to do but I always try to work on my own and hand in more than they asked for. Going it alone doesn't bother me as that's what I've always done so far.

Our fourth year films AFAIK are still going to be solo projects.. in fact the current third year I believe are starting work on theirs next week. With a year and a half to do it, I hope I'll be able to pull off something pretty impressive. Started to think it over already :)

I did think about Escape, but London accomodation/childcare prices were prohibitive for me... as I have myself and my daughter (3) to think about. Shame really.

Student loan next week.. so time to go dvd shopping I think! Thanks for the links.

[matmonkfish]

hi amy

you sound like the kind of person who will go places. You seem to undertstand its all about guiding yourself rather than expecting it all on a plate from your course.

In regards to what i am doing now. I was offered a job by some guy who came to the degree show at a place called DA group in glasgow. They do mobile phone download stuff. I didnt really wanna take the job, but i did. I wanted to go back to England (where im from), sort my reel out and apply to places i wanted to work at, places that do adverts and stuff.

I spent a month working there decided it wasnt for me (perhaps stupidly) came home to follow the initial plan. I spent september to december imroving my reel on and off, and have just recently sent out a load of reels, and am getting a couple of positive responses so far (thanks for sending reel, we dont have any positions available at present but we were impressed with your work and will contact you if any positions become available) plus i have been offered a months trial at a place doing facial rigging type stuff, starting monday, which may lead to a full time job, . its maybe not an ideal job for me but gives me a chance to see if any offers come in whilst doing the months trial.

i think the thing is that when you graduate, dont expect to get a job straight away. If you are good enough and keep applying to places, you will eventually get a job. It could take a week, it could take a year.

It could speed things up a bit, but shouldnt really make too much difference which college you went to.

I think the main reason that people dont find employment is this.
They spend 3 years working toward something, and then if an opportunity doesnt come along soon after graduating then its all doom and gloom and you give up. I would suggest after graduating give yourself an extended period of time to carry on improving your reel, and apply for jobs again and again. Basically dont give up. If you have the skills then maximising the chance of getting a job is all about probability.

As a graduate, For any given job or speculative application, the chances are you wont get it, no matter how good you are. If you keep applying to a variety of places again and again then you have a good chance of getting a job. It just may take a while. Its about your reel being in the right place at the right time, the only way to make sure of that is persistance.

advice for 4th year film: keep it short, sweet and simple. get your characters right and go for a really simple story line. Much better than crazy complecated storyline with comprimised characters. They wont like this, as it is kind of the wrong way round in a eduactional sense, but if you make a really cool character and then think of a story, that for me is the way to go. Or think of a loose story or set of circumstances for a character, make the charcater, then worry about the story in more detail.

much time can be wasted worrying aboput the right story, when in fact all you need is an interesting character that looks good and is is animated well. if you get the right character it is probalby funny entertaining whatever happens. Just think simply. Like 'The adventures of Mr Sausage Fingers'. Then worry about his adventures. The possibiities for mr sausage fingers are then endless, as long as he looks entertaining/funny.

[MattBirkett-Smith]

Hi there, I'm currently a final year student on the Bournemouth BA course, I'm feeling lazy so I can't be bothered to write out a full review of my experiences with the course but if you have any questions then I'll be willing to have a go at answering them. Also, you may be interested in checking out the NCCA forum (http://www.nccaforum.co.uk) which is an unofficial forum set up for our course.

[AmyScott-Murray]

Thanks for the advice! and good luck with your month's trial.

The entertaining story is always the most difficult part for me... that's why i'm trying to crack it early on. But I'm sure once it gets underway a lot of it will appear on here in some form.. keep an eye out next year, crits always very much appreciated :)

[Simon]

I have an interview with bournemout coming up. but they want to do a MATHS test. I always know they would, but my maths is terrible, today I struggled doing 1500 * 12 in my head :/

I'm going to fail. :cry:

Simo

[jbw]

99sproth - What course did you apply for and when did you find out you were up for an interview? I'm still waiting to hear back from them. :sad:

ta,
jbw

[Simon]

99sproth - What course did you apply for and when did you find out you were up for an interview? I'm still waiting to hear back from them. :sad:

ta,
jbw

3d animation or something.

What kind of grades are you predicted, I hear they are sometimes elitist.

It took them several months to reply to me.

[jbw]

I'm not predicted any grades. I've applied on the strength of my work experience (I've been working in the industry for nearly 7 years now) but have yet to hear anything back. Other than the acknowledgement email I got.

Best of luck with your maths exam. :)

ta,
jbw

[Simon]

I'm not predicted any grades. I've applied on the strength of my work experience (I've been working in the industry for nearly 7 years now) but have yet to hear anything back. Other than the acknowledgement email I got.

Best of luck with your maths exam. :)

ta,
jbw

Oh right. I forget that Uni isnt just for kids. goodluck!

[jbw]

Oh right. I forget that Uni isnt just for kids. goodluck!

Ha, ha! I am a kid... the tender age of 24. :scream:

[Simon]

You just made you 666th post on friday the 13th!!

:eek:

[ralphmanning]

I have an interview with bournemout coming up. but they want to do a MATHS test. I always know they would, but my maths is terrible, today I struggled doing 1500 * 12 in my head :/

I'm going to fail. :cry:

Simo
About that maths test; Is it because you did not get a C or above at GCSE level mathematics? (I didn't, though I now have a Key Skills numeracy thingy :P). Also, if you did have grade C or above, would there still be need to do a maths test?...

I am currently looking at Universities to go to, however, I will be taking a 2D route rather than 3D. By the time I apply I will be plenty qualified for anywhere, in terms of qualifications, UCAS points, portfolio etc. I just REALLY hope I wont have to do a maths test, it's not my strong point either! :sad:

[Simon]

About that maths test; Is it because you did not get a C or above at GCSE level mathematics? (I didn't, though I now have a Key Skills numeracy thingy :P). Also, if you did have grade C or above, would there still be need to do a maths test?...

I am currently looking at Universities to go to, however, I will be taking a 2D route rather than 3D. By the time I apply I will be plenty qualified for anywhere, in terms of qualifications, UCAS points, portfolio etc. I just REALLY hope I wont have to do a maths test, it's not my strong point either! :sad:

I got a B grade in maths. But I cant do it when on the spot. Apparently you need AS level standard maths, which is pertty complex. :(

[L.Rawlins]

I just REALLY hope I wont have to do a maths test, it's not my strong point either! :sad:

I guess it depends on whether the course tailors for the science or the art of the subject.

A more traditional degree I think would have less of a stance on mathematical ability compared to the modules of an intensive, purely CG equivalent. Don't take that as gospel though. :)

I got a B grade in maths. But I cant do it when on the spot. Apparently you need AS level standard maths, which is pertty complex.

Perhaps this is Bournemouth's stance but it is not the same everywhere. Can I also note that Bournemouth and Teeside aren't the only uni's in the UK that cater for the subject, nor is a popular 'brand name' uni a guarantee of anything post-degree.

Look around. It's your work that will secure the job, not the header on the certificate.

Oh, and also, the prospectus is ultimately a marketing tool... you'll be able to guage the actual quality of the course and the uni through the students themselves. Remember this on Open days. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Current students will give the most honest answers on just about anything you need/want to know.

[Simon]

I guess it depends on whether the course tailors for the science or the art of the subject.

A more traditional degree I think would have less of a stance on mathematical ability compared to the modules of an intensive, purely CG equivalent. Don't take that as gospel though. :)



Perhaps this is Bournemouth's stance but it is not the same everywhere. Can I also note that Bournemouth and Teeside aren't the only uni's in the UK that cater for the subject, nor is a popular 'brand name' uni a guarantee of anything post-degree.

Look around. It's your work that will secure the job, not the header on the certificate.

I secured a place at portsmouth (uk) too. I dont care what the courses are like because in the end all a degree is is a piece of paper that makes visas quicker. my portfolio is what will matter.

[L.Rawlins]

I secured a place at portsmouth (uk) too. I dont care what the courses are like because in the end all a degree is is a piece of paper that makes visas quicker. my portfolio is what will matter.

You should care what the courses are like, you're paying for them, I'm just saying that there are more than two up for consideration on this little island of ours. :)

Others seem all to readily overlooked on this forum in my opinion.

[Simon]

You should care what the courses are like, you're paying for them, I'm just saying that there are more than two up for consideration on this little island of ours. :)

Others seem all to readily overlooked on this forum in my opinion.

true true.

I also got accepted at Herts, Demontford, Worchester, (Cant remember what swansea said)

[ralphmanning]

I got a B grade in maths. But I cant do it when on the spot. Apparently you need AS level standard maths, which is pertty complex. :(AS standard! :argh: :eek: I'm really supprised at that. Hmm, well good luck in the test then. :)

I guess it depends on whether the course tailors for the science or the art of the subject.

A more traditional degree I think would have less of a stance on mathematical ability compared to the modules of an intensive, purely CG equivalent. Don't take that as gospel though. :)Yeah, I think/hope you are right. Thanks.
Btw, what do you study at Lincoln Uni? I have a friend who goes there.

[mrflynn]

Just to throw my penny in..

Im currently in my 2nd year of Bolton Animation & Illustration, Id say it wasnt as good as Dundee perhaps but its well on the way.
Curently taught by Graphic designers (not graduees that failed in industry heh) and even some members of Cosgrove Studios (anciently good studio doing plenty childrens stuff and award winning) Im absolutely loving it, but as some one already mentioned you only get as much out of it as you put in.

[pisano]

I'm also on your situation, just apply Malta instead of malta. Thankz for all your info guys, bournmouth sounds like just what i've been looking for, however i do have another question. I really am thankful that as you mentioned it really backs up the Artistic side of animation, because all the software skills can easily be learnt on your own as i'm doing at this moment.

My question is, all of you seem to mention character related animation and cartoon stuff, i know this may sound stupid but Is this course's main animation focus on that cartoonish style? hopefullly it dose expose its student to other styles as well, so to aid in diversifying his career a bit more?

And 1 more thing , what requierements are there for one to be accepted? (My highest qual: 2 Alevels +4 Intermediate levels, i think it can easily be translated to your system since or educ system is british founded)

[jubba]

My question is, all of you seem to mention character related animation and cartoon stuff, i know this may sound stupid but Is this course's main animation focus on that cartoonish style? hopefullly it dose expose its student to other styles as well, so to aid in diversifying his career a bit more?

The Bournemouth BA course gives the students the opportunity to do a wide range of things. Some of the students focus on character animation for their final projects, others do things that are more graphics or VFX based (they teach a bit of compositing on the course too). It's really up to you as a student to see where you want to take it.

BTW: don't confuse software technique with computer graphics theory. The Bournemouth course teaches a certain amount of computer graphic theory and computer science to back up the application of technique in packages like Maya etc - this is why they are after people with some facility with maths. Software technique can indeed be picked up on your own, but having a knowledge of how the images actually get out of the softare and onto the screen is very useful, especially if you intend to work in a high end VFX environment like film or TV. I am always amazed at the number of wanabes who don't seem to think that this stuff is important - if you want to work at the highest level at some point in the future you'll find that it is.

And 1 more thing , what requierements are there for one to be accepted? (My highest qual: 2 Alevels +4 Intermediate levels, i think it can easily be translated to your system since or educ system is british founded]

The best thing to do here is inquire directly with the university or with your high school/college who should probably have some idea about how Maltese qualifications work in the UK system.

Hope this helps


J

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