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Nichod
01-05-2006, 04:13 PM
This forum needs some action. What better way to get some, then by starting a feature request thread. What do WE want in the next version of Messiah? I'm only just using Messiah myself, and will be purchasing (using the demo now) soon. My two main requests are an improved sphere widget and some improvements in the interface.

The sphere widget needs to be more 'standard' and easier to just grab and move. This has been discussed in other threads so I won't go into more detail then that.

The interface in parts (material controls) are a bit "large" but perhaps this could be to my inexperience with working with it and I can set things up differently.

I'll look things over and try and better visualize what I am looking for.

tomtm
01-05-2006, 05:50 PM
Hi, yes it's true, we need some more actions.
I guess, there were monthes of no updates on the pmg site.

Feature Request:
I would like to see messiah studio pro as a one package solution for animating and rendering.

- Volumetric Lights
- Hypervoxel
- FPrime - like preview rendering
- hair
- watersimulation
- full particle support


Greets Tom

Nichod
01-05-2006, 06:08 PM
I second the water and hair support. To me thats the other big features required to make it the end of the line package for animating.

shadowfork
01-05-2006, 08:13 PM
- better or new soft/hard body dynamics
- hair!
- toon shaders
- support for Ngons (5 pt. polys)
- got to do something with that itsy-bitsy-yellow marker on the timeline
- new Sub Sufrace Scattering
- weight painting (if possible)
- 3d gizmo/manipulator option (the standard one) -- they've mentioned doing something about it

Wireframes
01-05-2006, 08:22 PM
1 - Automatic dressing (cloth)
2 - Hair
3 - Softbody / Hardbody update
4 - Dynamics
5 - Particles enhanced rendering (Volumetrics)
6 - Netrendering fully integrated
7 - Ngons

Phil

stooch
01-05-2006, 09:25 PM
Softbody Dynamics / Cloth

Particle Rendering (liquids especially)

Rigging Workflow Enhancements and interaction, such as the widget.

Also, last but not least, a modo connection...

Wegg
01-05-2006, 10:35 PM
Just so you guys know. . . there is a new version going through the beta process. And some of the stuff you guys are mentioning has been improved/added/fixed.

Layer01
01-06-2006, 01:19 AM
- FIX THE SLOW VIEWPORT SPEED!! http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=306828
- Fix the GFX glitch in UI where text flickers etc
- Render layers!!! :twisted:
- particles, for water/smoke/fire etc.. so volumetric etc..
- better soft body dynamics.
- rigid body dynamics.
- general improvments to the renderer, macking it faster, more accurate etc..
- when using Meta effectors to select whole objects, it'd be nice if you could just pick the objects and add them to the meta effector (like you do for the weight drawing list) cause atm when you bring in an obj thats made up of multiple objects it can be a bit hard to possition the effector to get it to select the right bits....if any of that made any sense lol
- on the render window a "save as" button, so if you forget to set a save point while testing renders and get a nice result you can just save it, instead of having to set a save location and then re-rendering.
- the ability to buffer two images in the memory and have them displayed in a window on top of each other, with a marker (much like the one with the yello triangle in the time line) dividing the image. with one image on the left of it and one on the right, and as you drag the marker left and right it hides and reveales the images, useful for checking render settings etc.
- improvments to the animation side (dont forget it and get bogged down in only the renderer)
- selection highlighting on the edit sphere.
- better wacom support (espesially when the tablet is used in pen mode not mouse mode)
- oh and hair, why not ;) but it has to have brush tools to comb and style it (like C4d's solution) and if you'r going to have brushes then why not weight painting lol :P

a_joke
01-06-2006, 04:22 AM
better and more indepth manual

DMack
01-06-2006, 09:14 AM
This is an edited version of some things I said earlier in another thread.....

1. I find the navigation (perspective view) around the scene to be slow and clumsy in feel compared to LW. It's not the grid size and I am NOT refering to the open GL speed (which is good IMO). I can't put my finger on it right now but I find that in LW I can navigate around my scenes FAR FAR FAR easier and faster. It would be soooooo nice to be able to navigate around as fast as LW. This navigation extends to object manipulation - In LW, if I look down from the Top view, I can, mouse anywhere on screen, move the item/camera etc in the two logical planes (XZ), same with side/front - this is MUCH nicer than in messiah currently. Looking through the camer in LW, I can manipulate it soooo easily - In messiah I have to click on the edit sphere - feels sooo much more restrictive. So I guess I'm saying better navigation would be a REAL bonus.

2. I find the keyframing, especially of multiple objects/channels, including the manipulation via the dopesheet (see the thread on inactive keys) to be overly complex and again, I actually prefer LW's (though less flexible) by a long way. An example - the selected KF can be really annoying - you grab a bunch of keys you want to manipulate, forget that you actually have a 'selected' KF and edit that in error. I'd expect, when I grab a bunch of keys that it would override the initial selection.....

3. The yellow triangle is WAY too small, especially with the newer high resolution screens. I mean, I am grabbing that very small icon HUNDREDS of times a day - again LW's is better here - bigger and therefore easier to 'grab'. Also, when you zoom into the graph view, it should centre that zoom on the middle or cursor, NOT the left had side as it currently does - all that does is sends the area of interest (always the middle) shooting off screen to the right - guys!

These areas represent a large part of my ability to work fast. To me it feels like I have these awsome tools and awsome rigging ability....to be slightly let down by the gritty part of day to day animation - keyframing and scene navigation.

I don't actually want many more featues right now, I want workflow improvements like the ones above....THEN let more features be added.

I sincerely hope that animate has been given a good look at in this next update.......

Wireframes
01-06-2006, 09:51 AM
Just so you guys know. . . there is a new version going through the beta process. And some of the stuff you guys are mentioning has been improved/added/fixed.

Wegg

It seems you know many things about it can you tell us a little more ?

Phil

Nichod
01-06-2006, 10:29 AM
If he could...he couldn't. NDA. Anyway a lot has been said by pmG already stating what is in the next release.

Wireframes
01-06-2006, 10:58 AM
If he could...he couldn't. NDA. Anyway a lot has been said by pmG already stating what is in the next release.

Oups I have missed something ?

Are you talking about the post of August ?

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=270540

Phil

Wegg
01-06-2006, 11:02 AM
I can confirm that the particles have had an extensive upgrade as was mentioned. And I can also confirm . . . that they never said they wouldn't update the gizmo. (that vague enough?) :)

DMack
01-06-2006, 12:09 PM
Hey Wegg,

The sky is red over Moscow.....Pssst, here's the package....

Red Fox 4 out.

Wegg
01-06-2006, 12:19 PM
ha ha. . .

if you buggers only knew how much slips out of me on IRC. . .

:rolleyes:

DMack
01-06-2006, 12:25 PM
You're feeling sleepy.....very sleepy.....when you awake, you will think that cgtalk is IRC and you will type ALL that you know.....

SNAP! (of the fingers)

Hi William.....how do you feel......hey look there's a keyboard.......go type some....

Wegg
01-06-2006, 12:28 PM
boobs. . .

got to finish. . . boobs. . . client. . . needs. . . boobs. . . done. . .

Layer01
01-06-2006, 12:55 PM
boobs. . .

got to finish. . . boobs. . . client. . . needs. . . boobs. . . done. . .


Hey wegg :) good to see you on IRC as usual......hey....this isn't IRC!? what the hell, some sort of trap!

hehehehe if only you guys really knew how close this sort of boobish babble from wegg is to the IRC truth lol......*cries*
that and how we loosen his mouth with fine wines and squeeze all the secrets out of him....unoficially that is lol ;)

Nichod
01-06-2006, 04:56 PM
I'm in IRC all the time. There is a nice group in there usually.

It seems bug fixes. Rendering improvements. Better documentation. Particle improvements. Softbody enhancements. And Hair effects are among the biggest wishes. I'd definetly love to see all of those.

Layer01
01-07-2006, 12:59 AM
i also forgot, some toon shading stuff would be nice too ;)

Grgeon
01-07-2006, 07:08 AM
I'm not a user yet, but when i do become one i'd like there to be:

1. Hair/fur

2. hmm...

i guess that's it :)

George

shadowfork
01-07-2006, 09:52 PM
---> forgot to mention:

Better .obj material support.

When I load my models from SILO, they just appear as grey/white models in messiah.

Layer01
01-08-2006, 02:11 AM
recently brought to my attention, it would be nice if messiah could do ambient occlusion.

AAAron
01-08-2006, 07:03 PM
recently brought to my attention, it would be nice if messiah could do ambient occlusion.

Yep, and that would open up possibilities for dirt shaders I guess.

AlexK
01-09-2006, 07:57 AM
recently brought to my attention, it would be nice if messiah could do ambient occlusion.
Do you talk about this nifty bent normal stuff or just a "dirt pass"?
For the dirt pass it seems easier to run a pass with white materials and a white environment material in Monte Carlo GI. Really fast and basically the same. ;)

AAAron
01-09-2006, 08:13 AM
Do you talk about this nifty bent normal stuff or just a "dirt pass"?
For the dirt pass it seems easier to run a pass with white materials and a white environment material in Monte Carlo GI. Really fast and basically the same. ;)

Thanks for the tip, got to try that. :thumbsup:

Andy741
01-09-2006, 07:20 PM
I'd like a suite of keyframe tools in a dopesheet window. Like, click drag a frame with no key and drag it to where you want it and it automatically keys it. or any kind of toolset to use specifically within the dopesheet. and a nice control for changing what gets a key and what doesn't.

Layer01
01-10-2006, 03:23 AM
Do you talk about this nifty bent normal stuff or just a "dirt pass"?
For the dirt pass it seems easier to run a pass with white materials and a white environment material in Monte Carlo GI. Really fast and basically the same. ;)

cool tip :thumbsup:

but i do mean the crazy bent angle thing...based of the suface normals...or something like that.
like this http://www.rusteddreams.net/faogen.html

Wireframes
01-14-2006, 10:57 PM
Just forgotten a big request :

A free internal or external web netrendering to avoid an other purchase like Netbutterfly
...

Phil

stooch
01-14-2006, 10:59 PM
Just forgotten a big request :

A free internal or external web netrendering to avoid an other purchase like Netbutterfly
...

Phil

brilliant, that would rock.

this quite possibly be a huge way to promote the renderer. hear this pmg? key features for a network manager:

-split frame renders
-built in frame viewer.
-web browser admin with remote access.

Wireframes
01-14-2006, 11:19 PM
this quite possibly be a huge way to promote the renderer. hear this pmg? key features for a network manager:

-split frame renders
-built in frame viewer.
-web browser admin with remote access.

Admin with remote access is essential to support all computer not like LW Screamernet ;)

Go pmg go !!!


Other request :

Please --> more communication about development, demonstrations, ... just go to see every friday announce from Luxology :)

Phil

AlexK
01-15-2006, 08:30 AM
Please --> more communication about development, demonstrations, ... just go to see every friday announce from Luxology :)

A big double, triple, even more VOTE from me. Let us know what is happening evey week. Or at the very least every month.

timnhe
01-16-2006, 12:02 PM
Better comunicattion with other apps, export / import to FBX please!!
Poin oven lite, donīt work for me :sad: and when iīm working with people that uses another soft that isnīt lightwave, usually iīm in troubles ...

Please, Cloth and FBX export !!

Saludos

DMack
01-17-2006, 07:18 PM
Aaahh...Haven't been animating in messiah for a while (other tyhings more pressing) but I want to add this as I'll need it as soon as I'm back animating....and there's been a LOT of talk about it................ DYNAMIC PARENTING IN PLACE! We need it and we need it NOW!

Wegg
01-17-2006, 07:29 PM
HERE YOU GO!

<link> (http://www.animationsnippets.com/plugins/index.html)

AlexK
01-17-2006, 08:06 PM
lol :applause:

Wireframes
01-17-2006, 08:15 PM
easy :thumbsup:

Wegg
01-17-2006, 08:20 PM
Well actually. . . that plugin only does dynamic parenting. Which is different from dynamic parenting IN PLACE. So. . . you'd have to do some facy expression to get it to work the way Steph did in his demo reel. Steph is one smart cookie. :-)

DMack
01-19-2006, 11:55 AM
Dynamic parenting IN PLACE! And no, I don't want to code it ;)

This has ben asked for a LOT of times and would be sooooo useful.....I think Leebert was going to do a script but didn't find the time....Shame. So, That's probably my number ONE request.

Wegg
01-19-2006, 03:58 PM
THAT is your number 1 request.

Fur? Nah. . .

Render layers? Pffft. . .

NGons? Nah. . .

Autorig? Nope.

/me smacks DMack upside the head.

Parsec3d
01-19-2006, 04:13 PM
THAT is your number 1 request.

Fur? Nah. . .

Render layers? Pffft. . .

NGons? Nah. . .

Autorig? Nope.

/me smacks DMack upside the head.


AAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

Sil3
01-19-2006, 04:17 PM
- Ability to make curves Bezier by DEFAULT and not key by key.....

- SMARTSKIN kinda thing --- 7 year old request by me....still waitingzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

- FASTER development :applause: :D :scream:

DMack
01-19-2006, 05:57 PM
THAT is your number 1 request.

Fur? Nah. . .

Render layers? Pffft. . .

NGons? Nah. . .

Autorig? Nope.

/me smacks DMack upside the head.

Your assumption - I use messiah render....I don't
Ngons would be nice BUT you can get round that easily
Autorig? Most of my work is not standard biped stuff and I prefer to rig myself in any case

Now if you can think of a quick, easy and reliable way to achieve dynamic parenting in place so characters can throw/pass objects around then great....if not then get back in line fanboy! ;)

Wegg
01-19-2006, 07:05 PM
That plugin I linked too would be perfect for throwing objects around from one hand to another. The scene included in the download does just that! That type of motion does not need the "in place" part.

WesComan
01-19-2006, 11:38 PM
Now if you can think of a quick, easy and reliable way to achieve dynamic parenting in place so characters can throw/pass objects around then great....if not then get back in line fanboy! ;)

Are you aware of making a keyframe with 'Use Computed Values' turned on? It takes into account any expression you have and keyframes an items 'global' position. For example you can have an object snapped to anothers position with, say, a MoveTo expression...hit enter, turn on Use Computed Values and create the key. You can now turn off the MoveTo expression and the object will stay in place. Very useful if you need to line items up using only keyframes.

But I do agree that a fully featured parent in place would be a great addition :thumbsup:

gntnyng
01-20-2006, 02:09 AM
- multi_select by draw a box frame like Lightwave way;)
- add mouse middle buttom some advantage function
- add motion file support, (like .mot .mdd or others) so can copy and paste one's motion to another;
- dynatic parent in time and place (maybe it can do now, but i don't know, so i feel shame to say that.. )

DMack
01-20-2006, 09:33 AM
That plugin I linked too would be perfect for throwing objects around from one hand to another. The scene included in the download does just that! That type of motion does not need the "in place" part.

I'm intrigued! I shall have a look at that link - Thanks.

Hmmm if that really does do what I want then...I'll have to think of something else to put at number one.......Aha! I know you'll like this one William - The yellow triangle - I want it MUCH bigger or let us change the current frame by clicking in the main graph editor box.....Simple change - but it'll save me tonnes of time trying to grab the frame marker that I use all the time!

DMack
01-20-2006, 09:36 AM
Hi Wes,


Thanks for the tip...I guess I'm after a quick and efficient way for characters to throw and pass around and pick up and put down items - with four or more characters and tonnnes of animation to do - it would be great to have an easy way - I'll look into that link that William posted - I'm really hoping it'll do the trick!

Thanks.

DMack
01-20-2006, 10:13 AM
Right - had a look at that plugin - It's the closest thing I've seen to what I'm after. The only downside I can see at the moment is, as you point out wegg, is it is not 'in place'. I'm trying to figure out the implications.....Not a big deal for picking items up as the hand will be close and you can add a null in the correct place and make that the parent - for putting things down, you'll need to place nulls where-ever you put things down - but with four parents that's not too bad....To throw, you'll need to parent the visible child item to a child null that the expression uses so that you can move the visible child on Y (to get the arc).....Then with a throw, both throwing parents will need to remain still in order to not affect the trajectory (that would be very unrealistic)......I guess it's these things and others that I'll come across that make the elusive 'in place' something that would be really useful. Don't get me wrong - that plugin will be great for most situations and will save significant time.....I still can't help but feel that a system as advanced as messiah animate should have dynamic parenting in place.....:shrug: Maybe one day - hey I might even be surprised with the next update.....Wonder when that'll be....

crossbones
01-20-2006, 12:00 PM
Basics:
An ability to have a saver node in the render materials such that I can render out jus a specularity pass or special pass I create. I.e Like in Digial Fusion.

A frame viewer which I could save one individual frame out if I wanted to in any format I chose.

Particles and Voxels. I would love the ability to map a displacement to a set of 3D particles. I know anything is possible with taron-kung fu programming!

An interactive render where I can adjust lighting in real-time, kind of like what pixar has been using for a while and Fprime does very well.

DMack
01-24-2006, 09:24 AM
This will make a certain person smile.......I'd like Ngons.... ;)


Much nicer smoothing and now that LW will be implementing them, they've suddenly become more useful to me...

shadowfork
01-31-2006, 07:49 AM
I don't know about you guys but the 'eyes' on the top right corner is starting to bug/freak me out. Who's eyes are those anyway? LOL! :eek:

It would help me concentrate a lot if no one's looking me straight in the eye. :D

A more 'professional' look would be appreciated on the future versions of the software.

AlexK
01-31-2006, 10:56 AM
A more 'professional' look would be appreciated on the future versions of the software.
Hehe, choose your words carfully. ;)
I think Messiah does look professional. In fact, there is nothing that really bugs me in the interface design.

Wireframes
01-31-2006, 11:45 AM
me too interface design is cool and professionnal. :thumbsup:

I Prefer pmG work on other side of the software (there is many ideas about this in this thread here) ;)

Phil

rago
01-31-2006, 01:42 PM
Things I would like to see on the next messaih release, (but maybe just dreaming).

1: Definetly a better manual, printed or PDF format.
2: I think for PMG to win the competition with other newcoming apps such as MODO, and other established ones, Lightwave, Cinema 4d, ecc., if this is their goal, would be to include a 3d painter, and maybe in the future a modeler, or some kind of connection with one such as SILO.
That would be so great to make some kind of partnership with SILO, the two softwares together could actually provide a complete and great work pipeline!!!
3: Ngons!!!

Oooh, I was dreaming, sorry!!!

shadowfork
01-31-2006, 05:57 PM
Hehe, choose your words carfully. ;)
I think Messiah does look professional. In fact, there is nothing that really bugs me in the interface design.

I thought I did. There was no other way for me to put it.

If a 'flickering' interface passes your standards... hmmm.. not for me.

All I'm saying is it could improve.

Wegg
01-31-2006, 05:58 PM
my interface doesn't flicker.

I do agree with whomever mentioned the eyes though. Lets. . . ditch em.

shadowfork
01-31-2006, 06:09 PM
Could be my graphics card then.

Willl check on this one.

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