CG girl

[SilentRage]

yeah i believe it's suffering from the game-artist tube syndrome.

[cshanks]

Yeah, I agree with the previous comments. Proportions aren't to believable. check out some anatomy books. for a first start, I would say it's pretty good. Could use some more believability though.

[HPdeskjet]

Specifically what aspects of the body do you think should be adjusted?

[HPdeskjet]

I managed to get some more work done on this.
I made the body a bit thinner and taller and added some preliminary articles of clothing.
I will redo all the hair/face materials at some point.

test render:
http://img463.imageshack.us/img463/8254/wip7js.jpg

What do you think?

[miscel]

what is your goal on this project ? realism ? low poly for game ? You still need a lot of work.

[HPdeskjet]

what is your goal on this project ? realism ? low poly for game ?

This is going to be high - poly but I'm not sure I'm going to try for absolute realism

You still need a lot of work.

Not sure what you mean by this, but this is the WIP section after all.


Some more updates after some tweaks to the model and materials:

Body render:
http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/7590/bodywip7tf.jpg

Face render:
http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/4924/facewip2aq.jpg

Any C & C are welcome

[Katahu]

Please note that the face is a little flat. Not only that, a female's body had a wider hip and narrower shoulders. Also, make sure the cheeks aren't too puffy and that the fingers should be shorter. Those fingers kind of remind me of ET. ;D

[HPdeskjet]

Please note that the face is a little flat. Not only that, a female's body had a wider hip and narrower shoulders. Also, make sure the cheeks aren't too puffy and that the fingers should be shorter. Those fingers kind of remind me of ET. ;D

Yeah I mostly agree. I will try to adjust the hip to shoulder proportions for next time.
I think the particular perspective that the renders are done in makes the fingers look longer than they actually are though.
When I first started the face, I wanted there to be a little bit of baby fat(?) all around, but it may have gone too far. Although I think that some amount of puffyness looks cute.

I think I'm going to go for a casual school girl like look

Latest update:

http://img290.imageshack.us/img290/1180/wip24qa.jpg

[Cyborgguineapig]

move shoulders slightly down and closer together. Can't tell from this angle but the abdomen area looks a little too boxy and needs more form. back should have arch that makes belly come slightly forward. fingers slightly too long. Breasts in my opinion are too big and look to be overhanging on the chest. Think of the breast tissue as being under the skin not stuck on. But in your case maybe they would because they are big, but they look very much like implant..

[zachlantow]

First off, you should look up some anatomy pages online, if you cannot find those look for massage books, they contain a lot of anatomy information as well. Second, the legs are way too short as well as the arms, they need to be proportionate to the body. The face is pretty good, though it needs some work, again look at an anatomy book or just google image search the word 'face' and look at human features of the face. The hands and feet need a lot more definition, though I am guessing you havnt started working on those yet so I wont comment. Just remember, when modeling anything the most important part that you should spend a huge amount of time on is the preproduction. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, please, spend a lot of physical and mental time on the planning and the followthrough of the model you are going to be working on.

-Zach

[NeptuneImaging]

First off, you should look up some anatomy pages online, if you cannot find those look for massage books, they contain a lot of anatomy information as well. Second, the legs are way too short as well as the arms, they need to be proportionate to the body. The face is pretty good, though it needs some work, again look at an anatomy book or just google image search the word 'face' and look at human features of the face. The hands and feet need a lot more definition, though I am guessing you havnt started working on those yet so I wont comment. Just remember, when modeling anything the most important part that you should spend a huge amount of time on is the preproduction. I cannot stress the importance of this enough, please, spend a lot of physical and mental time on the planning and the followthrough of the model you are going to be working on.

-Zach

I second with what zach is saying. The next model you make, you should really do alot of sketching, that is what I am doing right now for my short film since I am going for realism. Sketching is not a requirement, it just helps speed up the modeling so that you will not struggle later. I would also draw faces and bodies as much as possible...

I don't know if this is a good example of a female body sketch, I may have problems in the sketch myself (it's an old one anyway), but having a sketch to follow from is a great timesaver, so you are not modelling blindly. This one is 7 heads high

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/JamesRayder2026/Amara.png


Just take your time on the modeling, and it will come out great. Also, take time to study how surfaces react to light, look at your skin, looking at your clothes, feel your hair on your head. All of those are great reference.

Kashif R.

[HPdeskjet]

hmm well thanks for the crits. So anatomy seems to be the big word.
I must admit I didn't think the anatomy was too off. Although, of course there was bound to be some errors here and there. Also sometimes I wonder if this thread is incurring some sort of negative bias somehow, but whatever.

When I started this model I didn't really use any reference except for some side and front sketches that I hastily did myself.
But at some point I did end up lining the model up against the woman body in the online loomis book, although the woman body in loomis didn't seem to be quite the body type that I had in mind for the model.

I've posted some head-on shots of the body an hands below. This way it's easier to get a better idea of the structure of the model.

head-on shots:
http://img392.imageshack.us/img392/3205/bodyhandshot1ar.jpg


Also, the mesh at this stage isn't particularly dense so it's still possible for me to fiddle with the shape quite a bit.

Note I did not get a chance to alter the model at all since my last post.

Also HaloAnimator: How many of those sketches do you knock off daily. Those seem to be the type of anatomy exercises that 2d artists seem to produce dozens and dozens of during their daily "practice" sessions.

[NeptuneImaging]

I do about 8 sketches a day, some really quick and some I take my time with. This sketch is the final I came up with. I also draw faces too, and each one I draw, I use the previous version to improve a new one. I am in no means an anatomical master, but I do practise sketching before I even touch the computer.

Keep this in mind.

[HPdeskjet]

I do about 8 sketches a day, some really quick and some I take my time with. This sketch is the final I came up with. I also draw faces too, and each one I draw, I use the previous version to improve a new one. I am in no means an anatomical master, but I do practise sketching before I even touch the computer.

Keep this in mind.

Obviously I'm not an anatomical master myself either, but I'm no stranger to sketching.

/edit ugh what am I saying, I'm not saying I'm a good 2d artist or anything, but all I'm saying is that I can atleast produce sketches at the level of those you posted.

[NeptuneImaging]

and I want you to keep on doing sketching, it really helps you in the long run. I also buy artist models, to help with posing as well... and since this model is not dense, you can do a sketch that you want, and model off that. I made the same mistake on my first 3D character, I did not plan it enough and it cost me a lot of time... I am making a little kid too...

And there are artists would can draw ortho better than I can :D. Just go and whip up a cool body sketch and use the drawing to help you. and the breasts can use a little softening IMO. Keep going on the model...

[HPdeskjet]

and I want you to keep on doing sketching, it really helps you in the long run. I also buy artist models, to help with posing as well... and since this model is not dense, you can do a sketch that you want, and model off that. I made the same mistake on my first 3D character, I did not plan it enough and it cost me a lot of time... I am making a little kid too...

And there are artists would can draw ortho better than I can :D. Just go and whip up a cool body sketch and use the drawing to help you. and the breasts can use a little softening IMO. Keep going on the model...

Hmm well I guess your advice is good. Though I have to admit I haven't sketched in earnest in a long time.

Note: What follows is me majorly reading into things in wacky ways.

I found it curious how alot of people are assuming some sort of master - apprentice relationship, them being the master of course. Are they really that skilled, and I, really that unskilled? Is it some sort of knee jerk online community hazing ritual?

And you say that this is my first 3d character, but somehow I get the feeling that you don't earnestly believe this, but you are just saying this to make an indirect jab. But I have to admit that this indeed is my first serious 3d character though, so - shrug. I have however done some minor low-poly character work and some mechanical models before. I didn't want to admit this because I felt that this would just be another thing to fuel the bias from the "elite inner group." Also when people eagerly admit that they are producing their first model, the intent seems to be to suggest: "Hey, if I'm at this level now, imagine how good I'll be later on." But I know for me this will not be the case, becuase I'm in a situation where I just can't put in a long and sustained effort into producing 3d art.

[NeptuneImaging]

If I am bring you a little confusion, I aplogise. I am no mdoeling master, I just do a lot of research. But one thing for sure is a mantra I live by: practise makes perfect. :) Trust me, once you reach a level you have never imagined, you will not turn back :-D

I would love for you to keep working on this girl, because you will grow and learn alot of things. I can see you are going into texturing. Keep it up, and don't give up. We are all here to help each other. :-D

Kashif R.

[HPdeskjet]

Did some minor updates:

added knees and inner elbows, adjusted the hips and shoulders, softened the crease where the breast meets the body, some other minor tweaking

http://img467.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wip33to.jpg

[Nardes]

Great job on the knees and the face.
The proportions are also decent, what you should focus on now is shape and curvature.
This has nice potential. But the legs are just shaped like tubes. Study the curvature on the loomis sketch you posted. Same goes for hips and torso, or rather the transition between them. It's too straight. I'd say that on many parts of your model, things are too straight and unnaturally stiff. Eg. the hands, eventhough it's less out of a problem there.
The hips are too narrow in comparison too the shoulders, fix that (make hips bigger and shoulders narrower) and it will be an immense improvement. Maybe smooth out the neck muscle detail a little bit.

I hope I don't sound to hypercritical. I like your model.
Keep up the good work:thumbsup: .

[HPdeskjet]

Great job on the knees and the face.

The proportions are also decent, what you should focus on now is shape and curvature.

This has nice potential. But the legs are just shaped like tubes. Study the curvature on the loomis sketch you posted. Same goes for hips and torso, or rather the transition between them. It's too straight. I'd say that on many parts of your model, things are too straight and unnaturally stiff. Eg. the hands, eventhough it's less out of a problem there.

The hips are too narrow in comparison too the shoulders, fix that (make hips bigger and shoulders narrower) and it will be an immense improvement. Maybe smooth out the neck muscle detail a little bit.

I hope I don't sound to hypercritical. I like your model.

Keep up the good work .

Thanks, I like your crits.
I do think the perspective of the render camera is throwing alot of people off. Anatomy is a big buzzword, and I suspect that even if the model were absolutely identical to the loomis figures, people would still find a lot to criticize about the anatomy.

For instance you say that the shoulders are too wide and the hips are too narrow, and also you say to go by the loomis sketch.
But actually, in the loomis sketch, the shoulders are a bit wider than the hips.
As the model currently is, the shoulders are proportionally narrower and the hips proportionally wider than in the loomis sketch. So in that sense, making the shoulders narrower and the hips wider would be further incorrect. Note that I do indeed agree that there is a certain lack of accuracy in the general shoulder/hip shape, I just don't think correcting it is a simple matter of narrowing the shoulders and widening the hips.

I do agree that the model is really stiff right now, and could use a bit more curvature and definition in certain areas, but I also think that part of the stiffness you point out is coming from the lack of a pose.

Some people seem to be emphasizing traditional sketching, so I decided to post some sketches I did 1-2 years ago. Also, I've seen a lot of sketches (and note I've also seen alot of 3d art) and I know that they can get quite good. So I've decided to save you this bit because I know alot of people will be eager to point this out. You know, demonstrating of the "greatness" of the community and all. I'm not saying that these sketches are "good" I'm just showing that I am capable of sketching, and I also admit that these are sketches from reference and not quick, freeform studies. If I were to sketch right now I would probably be worse since I haven't done it in so long.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/2126/guy6gt.jpg
http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=037lb.jpg

As for the model (and maybe - the scene), I am going to try to bring it to completion, but I suspect that pretty soon I will no longer have time to work on it (it will be the end of winter break. Also I will have to learn rigging, which is another hurdle). But hopefully I can still get in a little bit of work here and there.

[Nardes]

But actually, in the loomis sketch, the shoulders are a bit wider than the hips.

Yes, you're right. I should have seen that:surprised .
In many ways, these things are a matter of personal taste and preference. But when something seems to be wrong, it probably is.

About the hips and shoulders:
The loomis figure is maybe not the best example of female proportions. I think many people would find her a bit masculine with such an apparent trapetzoid shape.
The hips still don't strike me as inaccurate in the same way as in the model, since the shape between the hips and trunk is very different. It's not just straight as in your model. It doesn't look like the trunk just continues all the way to the legs. That's a major difference.
That's why I feel the model has an anathomical problem. Eventhough one may find plenty of girs with very wide shoulders (just check miss olympia competions :D ) I don't think you will find a healthy person with such an extremely straight curvature.
But what matter is not whether anathomy is possible in real life, but rather if it works well visually with the caracter.
On a side-note, I should say that a the problem is emphazised a lot by the big breasts. It feels very unbalanced with those big things together with such narrow hips. And it maybe feels a bit misplaced with powerful shoulders on a japanese schoolgirl.





It's sad if you won't to get to work on this after winter. But just put it aside and return to it when you get time again. I think I've been tweaking my model for a year now:blush: , I've had too make many interruptions because of school. It sucks. But it's no rush. Let things take their time.

And oh, your sketches are very nice:) . You have obviously no problem with drawing.
Keep it up.

[lumberyard]

hey man, i think you're doing a good job, but try and remember not to take the criticism personally, everyone is here to help you and it seems like you're getting a little defensive.
there are some world class artists on this board (i not being one of them) and whatever advice they give is usually worth at least considering if not following.

i agree about things looking a little 'tube-ish', it doesnt feel as organic as it could with more natural curvature, i think. this is why everyone is advising you to check out some anatomy books. you can find some good ones in the 'anatomy for the artist' category that are really helpful. they will have lots of different poses and explain what causes things to look they way they do.

anyway, i just thought i'd chime in and remind you that the people here arent out to get you, this is a place we all come to improve, and this is the way to do it. so good luck and dont let the suggestions get to you.
lumberyard

[broccoli5378]

hey man, i think you're doing a good job, but try and remember not to take the criticism personally, everyone is here to help you and it seems like you're getting a little defensive.
there are some world class artists on this board (i not being one of them) and whatever advice they give is usually worth at least considering if not following.


Well this thread is sort of getting off topic, but oh well.
Please don't get the impression that I'm not considering the advice that I've been given, as that is not true. I am definately considering all suggestions, and trying to follow the ones I can.
Would you rather me to eagerly say "Yes, sir, right away?" Would this serve to remove your doubt?
I didn't mean to sound defensive, but I can sometimes get chatty about things that may or may not be relevant. Also I guess inner-group elitism (Note I'm not saying CGTalk is definitely elitist) is something that makes me curious and maybe I'm a bit too quick to latch on to such things, and maybe make wrong assumptions. Case in point, the way everyone feels the necessity to remind new people of how much talent, intelligence, humor, or whatever there is in their community (whether it's an art community, music community, or general humor community). It's not that this is necessarily not true, but getting too carried away in exalting this doesn't really serve to help new people, and if anything it can even alienate them.

Actually I've been lurking for a bit, so I don't think I'm majorly misjudging the amount of talent there is on this board. However I think that this issue is not really relvant right now, and I wonder if you really needed to bring it up.
Also, you have to admit that the "world-class artists" make up only a small percentage of this forum. The majority of posters, and probably all the posters in this thread, seem to be people like you and me.


i agree about things looking a little 'tube-ish', it doesnt feel as organic as it could with more natural curvature, i think. this is why everyone is advising you to check out some anatomy books.
you can find some good ones in the 'anatomy for the artist' category that are really helpful. they will have lots of different poses and explain what causes things to look they way they do.
anyway, i just thought i'd chime in and remind you that the people here arent out to get you, this is a place we all come to improve, and this is the way to do it. so good luck and dont let the suggestions get to you.
lumberyard


Well, I never really disagreed with the "tube-ish" look. But after browsing art forums for a while, the suggestion to check out anatomy books begins to sound a lot like "eat your vegetables" or "do your homework." Yes, it's good advice and it's true everyone could use a little bit more anatomy knowledge, and a little more nutrition, but when someone tells you this, you wonder: "Yes, thank you, maybe I'll conduct a deep and thorough study of some anatomy books later on, but can you atleast help me finish the task at hand?"

/edit ugh, this is the wrong account, I am HPdeskjet.

[jjcoolio]

with the shader and clothing it looks more better.

[lumberyard]

nm, sry :(

[Stuck]

Wow, not too bad actually IMHO. Texture job is pretty fantastic.


Question, how'd you make the bra? Cloth or just modelled it? I'm trying to make a tube top myself and well...having issues with "semi-covering" clothing.

[HPdeskjet]

Wow, not too bad actually IMHO. Texture job is pretty fantastic.


Question, how'd you make the bra? Cloth or just modelled it? I'm trying to make a tube top myself and well...having issues with "semi-covering" clothing.

The bra and pants are modeled. The shirt is syflex. I think I'm gonna freeze it later on and give thickness, add buttons etc. (or do you do these things before you run the simulation, iunno)

Minor updates:

I tweaked the body a bit more:
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/5492/bodyshot6yi.jpg

Also worked on the bra texture:
http://img226.imageshack.us/img226/368/bra5ot.jpg

[Nardes]

That's 1000% better.
Very nice improvement.

[Stuck]

Very nicely done indeed. Texture job is fantastic!

Since it looks like you're quite skilled with this, just wondering if you could offer some tips for someone trying to not make naked people: did you make the bra part of the chest (as in if you deleted it, it would be a whole character there, not just a gaping hole), and how did you weight the bra and pants to be the same as the body? Or did you just remove the parts of the leg that were hidden and combined it with the pants?

[HPdeskjet]

Very nicely done indeed. Texture job is fantastic!

Since it looks like you're quite skilled with this, just wondering if you could offer some tips for someone trying to not make naked people: did you make the bra part of the chest (as in if you deleted it, it would be a whole character there, not just a gaping hole), and how did you weight the bra and pants to be the same as the body? Or did you just remove the parts of the leg that were hidden and combined it with the pants?

the bra is a separate mesh, I did it by first extracting the polygons on the body that would be coverd by the bra, expanding those polys a little, and then doing the necessary tweaks and restructuring.

I worked on the face a bit. Here's what I have so far:
http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=facewip29re.jpg

I think I'm gonna totally redo the hair from scratch at some point

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