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underdog
02-28-2002, 06:58 PM
Im going to be upgrading to dual athlonMP soon but Im not sure which mobo to get. I see Asus has dual boards as well as Tyan. Are there others? Which to you recomend? I'd like to make this upgrade as smooth as possible. Any help would be great.

johnny_riptide
03-02-2002, 06:27 AM
Hi Underdog,

First off, you're definitely making the right decision by going with AMD. I built me a dual Athlon 1600MP system on a Tyan Tiger MP S2460 and have never looked back - it has rock solid stability and a hell of a lot cheaper than Intel.

I built mine back in December, and then the decision was simple became the only dual Althon board on the market was from TYAN.

Since then, AMD came out with their new 760-MPX chipset. The AMD-760MPX is basically an updated version of their earlier 760MP chipset, and is what the new dual Athlon boards are built around.

Here are the four that I know about:
Tyan Tiger MP S2460 (AMD-760MP)
Tyan Tiger MPX S2466N (AMD-760MPX)
Asus A7M266 (AMD-760MPX)
MSI K7D Master (AMD-760MPX)

I would get one of the newer ones with a 760-MPX chipsets. Which ever you choose, do yourself a favor and get a quality 400W power supply. I tried to use my old 300 Watter and it didn't cut it.

Also be careful as to which type of memory you order - my Tyan only accepts REGISTERED PC2100 DDR Modules. Spend a few extra bucks and get the good stuff.

Here are a couple of resources to check out. There are many others, so just do a search on yahoo.

AMD (http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/0,,30_182_869_965,00.html)

Tom's Hardware (http://www6.tomshardware.com/mainboard/02q1/020211/index.html)

Good Luck!!!

MadMax
03-09-2002, 12:40 AM
I would most definitely NOT have the MSI board on my list of considered motherboards.

After a massive run of problems with MSI based products this past year I will personally NEVER own one again.

The MSI K7 Master board was a complete disaster, and following threads at numerous sites, I was not alone in this.........

A beat tester has already warned to avoid this board.

Asus is a good board, so is the Tyan. Epox has a dual board coming this month also, and if it is as good as their current Athlon boards, this will be the one to get.

roguenroll
03-09-2002, 06:16 AM
http://www.googlegear.com/ggweb/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240247

thanks for the advice, now I'm zeroing in on the pieces.


$219.35 @ googlegear.com


I have experience with Asus, so I think I will stick w/ an Asus.



Hey, you Tyan fans, post your mobo deals, lets compare. It seems were all in the same race.


Rogue

On to the CPU, and memory!!!!!

underdog
03-09-2002, 06:43 AM
Thanks for the replies guys. Im still debating between tyan and asus....decisions decisions :) They're pretty much a draw for features and price. hmmmmm =/

MadMax
03-09-2002, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by underdog
Thanks for the replies guys. Im still debating between tyan and asus....decisions decisions :) They're pretty much a draw for features and price. hmmmmm =/


not much difference really. really a matter of cost. I think though that the Asus has overclocking features, the Tyan does not.

roguenroll
03-09-2002, 12:25 PM
3.2 GHz Athlon Power: (http://www.tomshardware.com/mainboard/02q1/020211/index.html)


just saw this haven't read it yet, but I'll post it now.
Looks interesting.


Rogue

MadMax
03-09-2002, 10:57 PM
As is typical with Tom's Hardware, his article is full of faulty information......

The title alone stands out as 2 1.6 ghz processors do not mean a 3.2ghz Athlon.

from one of the first pages here he writes:

To get to the point, both the Athlon MP and the Athlon XP currently available on the market are suited for dual operation. The old Athlon with its Thunderbird core (distinguishable by its ceramic case) and all Duron models (with Spitfire and Morgan core) do not function in dual operation.


Fact is, Thunderbirds and ALL Durons work just fine in Dual mode. One of the hardware sites even did an article on someone using dual durons.


then at the end, this nonsense:

What good is the best dual platform if the software isn't there to take full advantage of it? Lightwave from Newtek offers a convincing example of this: on average, a single Pentium 4 is just as fast in this application as a dual Athlon system.


Unfortunately, this is a load of nonsense. At the Lightwave benchmark page, they show the following scores (I am taking top performers in all categories)

Athlon dual 1.53ghz. Raytrace render 92 sec.

P4 Northwood 2.4ghz. Raytrace render 123 sec.

Clearly his claim was not very well researched.

Now in Dual to dual comparison, we get the following (using the same Athlon as above):

Athlon dual 1.53ghz. Raytrace render 92 sec.

P4 Northwood dual 2.2ghz Raytrace render 77sec.

interestingly enough, with an almost 700mhz. lead per processor, Athlon 3.6ghz vs. Intel 4.4ghz. power, Intel only wins by a measly 15 seconds.

And while time is money, and 15 seconds here and there add up, when you consider the huge speed lead Intel has it is amazing that it is incapable of performing any better than that considering it is more than double the cost.

For the cost, I could easily add an extra 1U dual Athlon rack and still be money ahead. And of course with Thoroughbred Processors due to be released at the end of the month, Intel has much to be concerned with........

roguenroll
03-10-2002, 06:18 AM
I've actually, often heard that his research is not correct, I didn't
catch onto to the fact it was his article.

Rogue

Hellbring
03-12-2002, 02:33 PM
I personaly love my AMD but my friend states that you can oc a pentium 4 chip, to double what it states, stable and with a simple fan/heatsink combo. Any comments on this?

MadMax
03-12-2002, 09:04 PM
I personaly love my AMD but my friend states that you can oc a pentium 4 chip, to double what it states, stable and with a simple fan/heatsink combo. Any comments on this?


A couple points that should be cleared up:

1. Athlons run really hot. only partially true. Thunderbirds did run hot, a decent heatsink was more than enough to compensate though. Mine ran around 42 degrees centigrade. OVERCLOCKED. Newer Athlons with the Palomino core are much cooler. P4's and the new Northwood's run pretty hot as well.

In fact, have you seen the required heatsinks for a new P4? IF they were any larger they would be made by Kenmore (Air Conditioner manufacturer) they are like 4-5 times the size of the CPU.

It is pretty misleading to make the statement of "simple air cooling" when you are using a gigantic heatsink to dissipate the heat.

2. Athlons use a lot of power. True. Palomino's use less, and P4 is not really any better. The difference between the two is marginal. One shouldn't throw stones when they live in a glass house.

3. Athlon has far better overclocking capability than the Intel processors do. In fact, NOrthwood's overclocked to their current MAX still have a hard time beating stock Athlon 2000XP's.

The current Athlon core (Palomino) is at it's peak. Just like the P4 was before the release of the Northwood. It is a simple fact of manufacturing that at some point you will reach a dead end that you cannot cross. That is where new designs come in.

Athlon has a new core design using .13 micron process which is due anytime now called Thoroughbred. And this is interesting because the new Northwood processors have a number of advantages over current Athlons. .13 micron process vs. AMD with .18, 512k cache vs. AMD's 256k cache as the most important features. And yet the Northwood has a very hard time competing with stock Athlons.

The new Thoroughbred core has jumped to .13 micron process which means the initial units will have INSANE overclocking capacity.

So in summary, no the P4 cannot overclock to double what it states. Only in someones dreams......

SImple fan and heatsink can be justified if you call massive heatsinks with 80mm fans as simple.

Stable? well I'm not so sure there. P4 breaks a lot of apps. Apparently it doesn't like things with Java in them all that well. Also there are a few hardware issues due to the change in voltage requirements on the motherboard. I read a list recently that had video cards that would get fried if you tried to use them in a P4.

At better than double the cost, I personally do not find Intel to be a very good bargain at all.........

epatnor
03-13-2002, 07:03 PM
Well, I'm just waiting for Clawhammer, then my Athlon 1.4 can serve as a nice fileserver. :)

epatnor
03-13-2002, 07:08 PM
So in summary, no the P4 cannot overclock to double what it states. Only in someones dreams......

Well that's right, but almost 1.5 times is possible. My buddies run their P4 2.0's and 2.2's at 3 GHz --- but then again, their watercooling systems work their butts off...

Actually it's great if their workstations ever catch fire! Built-in sprinkler system! :thumbsup:

MadMax
03-13-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by epatnor

Well that's right, but almost 1.5 times is possible. My buddies run their P4 2.0's and 2.2's at 3 GHz --- but then again, their watercooling systems work their butts off...


Yes, but original poster stated double with simple air cooling. And that just isn't happening..........

Sure he can double it with extreme water cooling or liquid nitrogen, but who wants to risk that?

epatnor
03-14-2002, 10:08 PM
I hear you... :)

underdog
03-16-2002, 08:38 AM
hey what you people doing cluttering up my thread with this stuff ehhh? :D

Thanks for the help and suggestions and stuff...I decided to get the asus board, should be here in a few days.

Now maybe you could tell me what heatsink fans and stuff you would reccomend? :)

thanx again

roguenroll
03-16-2002, 09:00 AM
yep, I'm still here too, just been busy.

did you end up getting the Asus A7M266 (AMD-760MPX)

what price did you get?



I'll probably be getting the same thing!!!!


Rogue

underdog
03-16-2002, 09:27 AM
yeah I ordered the asus AM7266-D off googlegear for about $220. I saw it for little cheaper on pricewatch...but not by very much, plus Ive used googlegear before...

roguenroll
03-16-2002, 09:39 AM
sounds cool, Probably my choice aswell.

Are you well versed w/ AMD systems? I'm not. I'll have to get some advise from the forum when I build this one.

example, which CPU??, and this DDR memory???


Rogue

underdog
03-16-2002, 09:52 AM
actually all my systems in the past were pentiums so this is a new experiance for me as well. I'm gearing towards the athlom mp 1600 for my processors, though I wouldn't mind the 2000's or even the xp's which I hear work in dual as well? But they are more expensive and Im on a budget..

roguenroll
03-17-2002, 12:55 PM
cool, I will hopefully get some free time soon, so I can research the rest of the components.

I'll post any good news I find!!!


Rogue

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