Which Mac?

[jscott]

Well my basic line is buy the fastest computer you can afford. You will always find yourself needing/wanting a more powerful computer. I wouldn't expect a computer to last you more than 2 years anyway. I mean it will physically last that long and still be usefull but much faster and sometimes cheaper hardware can be had after 2 years have gone by. So you should be really thinking about what you need over the next 2 years not what can I buy now that will last 3-4 years.

I promise you if you take to 3D in two years you will want a faster computer. With that being said definatly get the quad 2.5 if you can afford it. That Nvidia 7800 is good choice. 1 gig of ram is okay to start off if you need to save a few bucks but you'll find 1.5 to 2 gigs lets you have more applications open. If you start adding a lot of high res textures to your models you will need more memory rather quickly or you will run out during rendering.

peace,

-jscott

[DizzyJ]

I might be able to sell my fiance on a top-of-the-line Mac for four years, or a middle-range Mac twice (now and after two years), but definitely not a top-of-the-line twice.

If I'm likely to outpace any machine I'm on now in a few years, the dual 2.0 GHz would be my best option--but more expensive in the long-run. However, I'd much rather get a machine I can live with while I'm learning for the next four years. I'd be interested in how many people are able to do their work on a single Mac or PC (without sending to a render farm), what their workflow is, and how they feel a four-year-old machine is viable at the end of an upgrade cycle. If I'm just dreaming, I'll adjust my plans (and start brining home flowers more often).

Thanks

[xsenos]

For the beginning, are you completely sure Mac is the right choice for 3D? I haven't tried this combination myself apart from playing with ZBrush a little on my Mac at work, yet as far as I know there are reported OpenGL and other problems for 3D on Macs.

And if it is for rendering, and I have no rights to doubt Quad's 2.5 power here, can't you buy a render card for the money you'd overpay for that super-Mac?

Just a thought.

[DizzyJ]

All my software is Mac, so yeah, the Mac is the right choice. And the notion that Mac's are overpriced doesn't hold much water: price a Boxx AMD machine and compare it to a similar spec'ed Mac and you'll find they're pretty close. Then look at the thread on Maya render times and you'll see that the Quad G5s are up near the top. I considered a PC, but it didn't make sense given that my software is already Mac.

[Edit: reread the last post. If I was in the market for a Quadro card and didn't have the software investment, I'd be considering a PC more seriously. However, the driver issue appears to effect the Quadro more than the 7800.]

[mike0006]

What's a render card? I've never heard anything about those.

[jbo]

And the notion that Mac's are overpriced doesn't hold much water: price a Boxx AMD machine and compare it to a similar spec'ed Mac and you'll find they're pretty close.

yeah, that's true. If you pick THE MOST EXPENSIVE PC seller, then yes, they are pretty close in price.

what you're buying from boxx that justifies that price is amazing support that mac can't even come close to comparing with. so you're comparison is BS.

[Beamtracer]

Sure, the biggest and greatest would be more appealing, but it may not be practical if you're on a limited budget.

My answer:
There's no point buying the most expensive machine and holding onto it for 3 or 4 years. It's cheaper to buy a lower model, but update it more often. Do the sums. Computers should be updated regularly.

[Beamtracer]

Then look at the thread on Maya render times and you'll see that the Quad G5s are up near the top.
Over on Luxology's site, the Quad G5 is leaving all x86 (pc) competitors in the dust. It's the fastest machine out there.

[DizzyJ]

jbo, last time I checked, I didn't start a thread to discuss the merits of Macs vs. PC. I stated why I was buying a Mac and why I'm not deluded in doing so. If you don't have anything to contribute, move on, please. I have to spend real money that doesn't come easily. Deciding how to spend it wisely is very important, for both myself and my fiance. ANY PC will cost more price/performance for me, regardless of vendor, because of my software investment.

[jbo]

jbo, last time I checked, I didn't start a thread to discuss the merits of Macs vs. PC. I stated why I was buying a Mac and why I'm not deluded in doing so. If you don't have anything to contribute, move on, please. I have to spend real money that doesn't come easily. Deciding how to spend it wisely is very important, for both myself and my fiance. ANY PC will cost more price/performance for me, regardless of vendor, because of my software investment.

I'm not trying to start a mac vs. pc discussion. I'm not trying to persuede you to buy a pc as it's obviously not the right choice for you, however, someone else might be reading this thread and think there is merit to your claim that macs and pcs with equal specs cost the same, which there is not. I didn't turn this into a mac vs pc thing, i'm just pointing out that you're wrong about prices. you're the one that brought up pc prices in the first place.

[Beamtracer]

someone else might be reading this thread and think there is merit to your claim that macs and pcs with equal specs cost the same, which there is not. I didn't turn this into a mac vs pc thing
If you look at the total cost of a machine and its software, Macs can often be cheaper than other brand name Windows machines.

This is especially true in video and effects. When you add on software like Motion (compositor), you could not match it for price with any Windows set-up. You look at the total cost of ownership, not just look at the MHz rating.

[PaleCow]

I will not enter the mac/pc debate, since ultimately... it is just a hunk of whirring plastic, but I will warn you of one thing.

I have an older PC at home that I run Maya on just fine, with a minimum of fuss. A few crashes, but what program doesn't crash?

At work, we run a totally Dual G5 office, and Maya crashes far more frequently than it ever does on my PC. We have an X-Grid running as a render farm, and we can't get it to finish a single render, since things keep crashing. Part of that may be network issues, but I have had many a local batch render randomly crash out on me.

To make matters worse, we bought two of the Dual Core Dual 2.5Ghz Macs, and all I can say is... DON'T DO IT. The NVIDIA drivers for the available cards do not play nice with Maya, and the GUI for Maya will cause a kernel panic on your machine. Maybe not immediately, but soon. Had we read a little more closely on the Maya qualified hardware site (totally our bad) we would have seen that it specifically calls out this error. It does make a fine After Effects and Final Cut machine. But with Maya.... we managed to create a scene with a single default NURBS sphere, default lambert, default light. Ran it through the command line render. Crashed after 600 frames.

So I would advise either waiting a hair more to see if Apple or Alias or NVIDIA or whomever will make it all play nice, or avoid the dual dual super duper core.

Just my two cents.

[xsenos]

What's a render card? I've never heard anything about those.I'm not sure what manufacturer's card it was at my previous work but it must have looked something like this: http://www.artvps.com/products.ihtml?page=pureoverview

[mike0006]

how much does something like that cost?

[DizzyJ]

To make matters worse, we bought two of the Dual Core Dual 2.5Ghz Macs, and all I can say is... DON'T DO IT. The NVIDIA drivers for the available cards do not play nice with Maya, and the GUI for Maya will cause a kernel panic on your machine. Maybe not immediately, but soon. Had we read a little more closely on the Maya qualified hardware site (totally our bad) we would have seen that it specifically calls out this error. It does make a fine After Effects and Final Cut machine. But with Maya.... we managed to create a scene with a single default NURBS sphere, default lambert, default light. Ran it through the command line render. Crashed after 600 frames.

Thanks for the tip. It looks like the problem with kernal panics exists only with recent nVidia cards and OS 10.4.3. Is it possible to get 10.4.2 retroactively, or if you buy a Mac that ships post 10.4.3 release, you're stuck with it? My old Mac is still running 10.3, which I don't think would work on the newest G5s, so that probably wouldn't be an option. Given my software investment, I would be reluctant to go the PC route, but don't want bad drivers to muck up my learning, either.

[PaleCow]

Yeah, once they have shipped it with 10.4.3, you are pretty much done. But. We did try to reinstall 10.4.2 on the machine, and we were having the same problems. This could be because we were doing that on another drive and booting off the external whilst using the Dual G5 beastie power, but I wouldn't bank on it. I have no clue whatsoever if 10.3 would work on it, but knowing how Apple works, I highly doubt it. 'Tis a shame. I was looking forward to seeing how that beast could crank on some of our scenes with a stupid amount of particles. We are currently having a lovely email exchange with Alias to see if they can work any magic, but we aren't holding our breath. They, too, have been having inconsistent rendering results on the G5.

If you were to go just midrange, for the sake of keeping happiness in the home, the regular Duals (which we have) have their issues, but at least there are no major kernel panics. Or if you have a couple of months, as much as it may hurt, wait and see what happens when Apple starts shipping the Intel beasts and see if all of these problems just POOF melt away.

[xsenos]

how much does something like that cost?Ours stood for something above 1000$. Might have been up to 1500$. But, apparently, you can contact them for pricing: http://store.artvps.com/merchantppci.html.

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