dj and his sketches

[Mu]

Well, you know that I like what you are doing, but I think some remarks in public won't hurt...


- I love "my god can eat your god". ROFL

- mehexjake is really touching. Stick to your characters. The more you learn the more they will come alive til one day... but that is up to you

- hex is my favourite. I still think you will have to develope a sound setting, an environment that helps the story.

And, unasked for, maybe, but who cares: one advice.

You are actually a cartoon guy. Cartoons/strips like yours heaviyl rely on linework. Try to do many of your strips with only lineart. Add only minimal shadows.

And keep it up no matter what

[Vertrucio]

The best advice for you is to draw from life. Draw still life, draw figutes/anatomy, draw perspectives, anything, just draw the things you see in real life in good detail.

Why? Because being creative only takes you so far, you also have to have the draftsmanship to take an idea to the next level.

Most of the best comic artists have excellent draftsmanship and knowledge of anatomy, which is what you must learn to take your art to the next level.

I figure the reason why you have an ART blockage is not because you lack ideas, it's because you lack the skills to render your ideas.

So, next time you sit down to draw, hold off on drawing these sketchy things and really focus on the fundamentals.

[djtrousdale]

Hey thanks! The lineart style is one I more recently discovered and had fun with, and I also learned how to color under a grayscale drawing without spoiling the linework.

And both of your comments are kinda opposites, and they've both been on my mind -- should I stick with my cartoon style or learn how to do fancy art? Personally, I don't think I'd be patient enough to learn how to do things realistically...

If there's one thing I want to get better at, it's anatomy. I love doing creatures and I think it would help to know a few things.

Can anyone give me some more specific tips?

[Vertrucio]

At this point, I'm not sure specific tips would help all that much. I mean, I could tell you techniques to render things well in photoshop and painter, but all those techniques won't help that much if your core drawing isn't rendered out well.

As for what you should study. That depends entirely on what you're content with doing. You posted: "I can't figure out for the life of me how the rest of you do actual ART so well." which means you seen all the amazing artwork that other artists have put up and want to try for that kind of work. If so, then study anatomy, perspective, and realistic rendering.

If you're fine just drawing little cartoons/comics, I guess that can work. However remember this, the best comic/cartoon artists have a solid background in those fundamentals. This allows them to make their cartoon/comic characters even better. When they put down a line, it's not just because they think a line looks good there, it's because they're actively making decisions about where to place those lines based on their in depth knowledge of the subject.

Also think of it in terms of job availability. What do you want to do when you finally hit the job market? These fundamental skills are what will get you a job and allow you to keep it. What if some work is offered to you and you don't have the fundamental skills to complete it? Will you turn it down? Can you afford to turn it down? Likewise, can you make money with simple lineart skills? Yes, you can, but you have to do it really well, which requires fundamentals.

You know those creatures you like to draw? You want to learn anatomy to draw them, right? So you learn it, but what if you want to draw a drawing where the creature is viewed from an odd or dynamic angle? That's perspective for you. Then what happens when you want to finish a creature design, complete with skin texture, muscles, hair, etc? That's those realistic rendering skills.

Finally, why are you thinking of these two facets of art as mutually seperate? Who's to say you can't make cartoons and lineart after educating yourself in the fundamentals? If you view it this way, it's not "fancy" art skills I'm talking about, it's fundamentals. You can draw all the cartoons and lineart you want after learning the fundamentals, but you can't go back and draw realistically if all you learn is cartooning and lineart.

I can't get any more specific than that. Learn anatomy, learn perspective, learn to render shading and texture. Get books, take classes, read tutorials. I'm not saying give up cartooning, I'm just saying for every cartoonish image you draw, try to draw realistically for another.

[djtrousdale]

Thanks very much for the in-depth comments. :)

One thing I want to say is, art is fun... but I don't see myself in an art career. (Music is my real talent) I'll take those ideas to consideration, but one flaw of mine is that I'm very stubborn about being taught... I like to learn on my own. I still read a tutorial here and there, in fact if you could point me to some about perspective or anatomy, I would muuuch appreciate it...

[djtrousdale]

So anyways, what I am really looking for is something specific to what I'm working on. I really do appreciate the broad viewpoint, but I need to start somewhere, and I need specific advice on what I can improve. This is a sketch I am working on developing, which was based on a fractal.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/monstersketch.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/monsterfract1.png

[djtrousdale]

Here is the finished:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/horseprogress.jpg

C&C please!

[djtrousdale]

Here's another one. I've been taking advice from my sister, like to use multiply to color over drawings, and to start with dark base colors and move to light. Let me know what you think of this one please, anything constructive and specific is appreciated.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/slookbowling.jpg

[djtrousdale]

Yay more weirdness. Here is my current progress on coloring some lineart:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoprogress.png

And if you don't have any crits about this so far (Especially need help with the wrinkles in the shirt :eek: ), I would like to hear your opinion on this matter: Do cartoons count as art?

I get the feeling that it's kind of looked down upon in a professional arena... and believe me, it would take me more than a lifetime to reach such a professional level. About all I can do is have fun. :D

[Mu]

Do cartoons count as art?
They most certainly do and you will have a hard time finding someone who will say it's not.

Anyway,

I think that the flat shading (or rather absence of shading) fits your style much better than the shading attempts you included in earlier posts.

I think, if you wanted to learn how to shade, head on over to the anatomy forum, find the Beginner's Lounge and post your take on one of the assignments. You will improve. It's a promise.

Until then, cartoons (e.g. comic strip masterpieces such as Peanuts and the like) mostly do without any color. It is a minimalist thing and leaves very little room for mistakes - that is why the field you chose is actually quite hard to master.

But I say - go for it!

[djtrousdale]

Thank you lots for being supportive Mu :D

First, I think I've used up most of my jokes, so I don't plan on doing comic-strip style things full time.

And I've decided that for this WIP, flat shading is a good idea. But when I get to that point I'm really going to need help, especially with the shirt... The anatomy place looks very helpful and friendly, but how will they react to something this weird? Will they tell me to get my head out of the clouds and re-learn the basics?? :shrug:

More progress:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoprogress2.png

[Mu]

Will they tell me to get my head out of the clouds and re-learn the basics??

We most certainly will...:)

[djtrousdale]

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoprogress3.png

I can only improve with practice...
Come on, you guys are so good at looking at a picture and pointing out what can be fixed/worked on.
Why am I not getting any specific tips? Are there THAT many things wrong with it?

(I know I'm going to regret asking that...)

[djtrousdale]

Well here's the finished whatever. I know its strange, but thank you very much for at least checking it out.
I didn't get much help from this place though, I kind of expected at least a few tips. So even though I'm done, I'm still open to hear those suggestions, so I can improve for next time.

Through this I did learn that flipping an image can help you catch mistakes...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboard800600.jpg

[Mu]

WOW

How on earth did you suddenly know what to do?

This is much better, now! I have some hints now. Blur and fruther desaturate the distant objects. Increase contrast on focal points! This will enhance the feeling of depth and create a strong focal point.

In general, follow the hints by Kirt Stanke in this thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=302282). First pages are about composition, then he gives hints on depth on one of the following pages.

Also, do the assignments in the beginner's lounge. This is the best piece I have seen from you, so don't give up. Sometime other people need more substance in a pic to give critique.

Keep it up.

[Mu]

Hi,

I did a very quick paintover. If you feel you don't want this kind of thing going on in this thread, just let me know and I'll remove the pic:)

I used desaturation/contrast/blur brushes that came with my app. I amsure you will have similar brushes, otherwise you can make selections and apply appropriate filters.

very distant objects: desaturated and blurred strongly
medium distant objects: lil bit of desaturation and blurring
focal point: increasing contrast and sharpness

It's all very quick, but this is just to show what you could do.

Keep it up!


http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/8257/octoboard8006005hf.jpg

[djtrousdale]

:D :D :D
Dude THANKS A TON. Paintovers are great, in fact they speak much louder than words.

And I didn't know what to do... I guess I just went for it, and tried to base it on what I knew :shrug: it must have worked.
I'll get right on that, thanks again!

[djtrousdale]

Also, excellent thread. Must look into that.

Heres what I did:
I made 3 layers. One contained the skateboarder and the nearest ramp, one contained the sky, buildings, roads, and parking lot, and another contained the crowd and fence. (Redid the fence)

Blurred and desaturated the further objects more as you said, and I wanted to keep some detail in the crowd.

Phew! Time for dinner :D

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboard2800600.jpg

[djtrousdale]

Next project! :D

This character is named Octogus, and he does lots of athletic stuff. Only thing is, before he makes it to the professional arena, he's gotta make a living somehow...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octopizzaprog1.png

C&C encouraged

[djtrousdale]

shading attempt!
need help! :surprised

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octopizzaprog2.png

[Mu]

hi there,

first:

incorporate the things you learned in everything you do! Distance applies to every painting.

And a very important thing to establish believable depth is perspective. Don't have the time for a paintover right now, but read up about perspective and figure out where you have to add to it in you pic! Some hints:

- use the horizon line to indicate the height of your character
- mind your ellipses in perspective (http://www.drawthrough.com/tutorials/ellipses.html)(i.e. the tables)
- apply desaturation, blurred shapes after you established perpective
- only then start to shade in a detailed kind of way

[djtrousdale]

Yes, perspective is definitely something I want to get better at.

I will apply blur/desat when I'm finished with everything else (unless that's not the way to go about it :shrug: )

And thank you for the link :D Very helpful

[HellBoy]

wow DJ you are improving well fast m8, all your latest pics are much better than what you shown us before. Keep practising more and more, also if possible get a tablet, doesn't have to be WACOM.


Apply some of the Blur on the background I guess, are you using GIMP?

[Mu]

I am an ass!

notice how I said in my last post "...first:"

well I forgot "...second:"

secondly:

what HellBoy said is right. You seem to have a much better understanding of what you want to do by now. Really great to watch you progress and improve, man!
:beer:

[djtrousdale]

Hellboy yes I use Gimp- thanks for your comment :D
No prob Mu, not at all!

I finished it. I didn't use blur/desat because I didn't think the distance was as much as in the skateboarding one...
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoguspizza.jpg

I plan to do this character as a boxer next, but first I think Tetris would be an awesome topic to practice perspective...

[djtrousdale]

Wheeeeeee! Perspective is fun!! :bounce::D

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/tetris2.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/perspractice1.png
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/perspractice2.png

[Vertrucio]

What do you mean no help or tips here?

I told you to focus on fundamentals such as perspective, and there you go, doing perspective and look how it has improved your work.

[djtrousdale]

Vetrucio
What you said is true, although it's something that not many artists want to hear. By nature I am extremely stubborn, so I didn't take your advice very well at first. But now I can see what you're saying.

But I guess what I meant by tips, was something that related to what I was working on. For example, when Mu said "Blur and desaturate distant objects", THAT was what I was looking for. It was helpful on a smaller scale.

In any case, I'm glad you took the time to give your wisdom :wise:
:D

[djtrousdale]

For this one I'm going to stray away from lineart and do it all digital-painterly like you guys are so good at. :D


Here is my progress, let me know what you think

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboxprog1.png

[djtrousdale]

For some reason I think his current pose is a little boring...
Should he throw a punch or two or three?

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboxprog2.png

[djtrousdale]

Idea! :scream:
I'll do kind of a blurred, superimposed second one of him lunging off to the side.
Aw this is so fun :D

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboxprog3.png

[djtrousdale]

Doot doot doo... more progress... :D
Wish I could change the title to "WIP thread" since thats what it's becoming.
but hopefully that will be fixed when (if) the 2d section gets its doodles subforum...

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboxprog4.png

[djtrousdale]

w00t Done!! :D

I think there's still room to improve though. Comments appreciated.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboxing.jpg

[djtrousdale]

Well I feel like I'm talking to myself here...
I thought that since I'm just about done with that last one, it should go in the Finished 2d section. Are there seriously ANY last-minute changes I can make, anything that can make it finished?

While I'm asking that, let me pose this question -- what makes something "finished" rather than not?

[Mu]

I read somewhere that art is never finished - only abandoned.

I don't know about this pic. It is obvious that you really improved over the last few weeks a lot, man!

Kudos, for that!

On the other hand, this pic confuses me compositionwise. What does it tell me? The superimposed righthandside half-transparent charcacter is actually looking pretty cool, fast action going on here. But what he has to do with the other element(s) is mysterious.

Judging from the impact the two have on the viewer I'd even say: do without the left one and try to flesh out the action you have going on with the left one only!

[djtrousdale]

Huh?
:surprised
do without the left one and try to flesh out the action you have going on with the left one only??

Is this what youre talking about?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboxtest1.jpg

[Mu]

I'd even say: do without the left one and try to flesh out the action you have going on with the left one only!

dj, man, read the above statement very carefully again and you'll notice that...:wise:, I erm, was talking complete nonsense?!:scream:

I meant flesh out the action with te right one! You actually chose the right one...which was hard given the fact there wasn't much information left...erm

seriously, now

Don't you think that what you have right now is much more dramatic? More appealing? I think that's a big step forward!

Now you need to decide what is the focal point in your piece! This needs to be boosted in contrast, sharpness, saturation while the rest needs to be blurred, desaturated and evened out a bit in contrast.

Atm, the ropes of the boxing ring are too sharp edged, e.g., a.s.o.


Keep going!

[djtrousdale]

blah
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/octoboxprog5.jpg

Can you tell me more about composition?

[Mu]

No I can't




but Philipp Straub can! (http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3275&page=)

Best piece I have seen from you so far!

Blow up the resolution now and add a wild amount of detail!

[djtrousdale]

Sweet! I think that's exactly what I need!

I wonder why my art teachers never told me any of this stuff...


Thankee muchly! :D :D

[djtrousdale]

Ok so I'm trying to keep in mind some of those things in the article mentioned... this is a sketch of a character I'm going to enter in a small contest.
Temporary name Ebork... he is amphibious, sorta intelligent. Perhaps related to Slook (http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/slook.png)?
Let me know what you think
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/eborksketch.jpg

[djtrousdale]

Tried my hand at speed painting... this was about 15 to 20 min, but I painted over a pencil sketch, don't know if that qualifies it :shrug:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/taryo.jpg

[djtrousdale]

*barf*

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/reach.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/fool.jpg

[djtrousdale]

I am now developing a comic story which explains how all my characters came to know each other.

First page here (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/29775693/)

[djtrousdale]

Kids at school are hilarious.
Surely you know of siblings who bring their rivalries to school?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b364/djtrousdale/rrrgh.jpg

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