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hairy_llama
12-20-2005, 09:35 PM
ok, i've got the messiah demo... I'm really frustrated -coming from lightwave- with
the workflow of the translation widget...

In lightwave, all I have to do is press "t" for translation then with my right and left mouse
button, clicking anywhere in the viewport I have complete control of all 3 of my axes.
hit "y" on the keyobard and I have complete control of rotation.

Now, in messiah to get something that appears to be close
I can hit "1" for XZ and "2" for y translation, still more work and to get it to
translate on 2 axes I have to click the little "m" button on the move widget, clicking
in hte viewport will only allow me to translate on 1 axis!

This takes WAY to much time, slowing my workflow WAYYYYYYY down.

I hope that makes sense...

Now... is there a way to set it up like lightwave?

Thanks for any help!

Razr
12-20-2005, 09:57 PM
A bunch of people have brought this issue up, including myself. Coming from Maya this is the only reason keeping me from further learning Messiah - the edit sphere is counter-intuitive and slows down the workflow. I really hope the pMG guys are working on fixing this or including an option to swith to a more LW/XSI/Maya-style manipulator.

hairy_llama
12-20-2005, 10:35 PM
you've got to be kidding me.... and I thought I was just an ignorant newbie.
To me this is totally unacceptable, and I am now going to look into maya as an alternative...

stooch
12-20-2005, 10:40 PM
yeah yeah, everyone is bitching about it, i hate it too.

but being an ex maya user myself, id still never go back to it for char animation. Widget or not, messiah is 10 times faster for char animation, keep that in mind when you are a working with the superior maya widget :)

and pmg guys, i REALLY hope you guys are paying attention to all the bitching about the widget

by the way, try using armatures on the handles you are having problems with, you can set it to free move automatically in the options, its the only thing thats keeping me from tearing out my eyes.

Cheers
12-21-2005, 01:45 AM
Hell...thanks guys; I thought it was just me being stupid wondering why the widget kept confusing the hell out of me :shrug:

It's very annoying, but as mentioned the speed gained in rigging and animating within Messiah does make up for it a little.

Cheers

hairy_llama
12-21-2005, 02:33 AM
I'm very happy with the speed I can animate in LW8.5... But very unhappy with the destructive rigging process. I need something that has the ability to easily setup muscle bones, flabby fat etc for a project that is coming up. Thats why I was looking into messiah.
But I think that widget will only make me feel like ripping my hair off my scalp... and then
eating it...
Has anyone any experiance with XSI for character animation?

Or any other ideas on a good substitute for character animation? Something that has the ability to export back to lightwave for rendering.

Razr
12-21-2005, 03:22 AM
Messiah is definately king of animation both in terms of speed and rigging flexibility (although tough to get into). I still don't like the approach to single-axis manipulating and the PHB convention (avionics?) What's wrong with Tx/Rx/Sx? There is a negative side on adopting systems that have been established by others, but a lot of people are attracted to Maya because it's designed with the artists in mind. I had a very easy time learning Maya from scratch; not so with Messiah, and that's a shame.

"Or any other ideas on a good substitute for character animation? Something that has the ability to export back to lightwave for rendering."

Maya/LW/XSI are used extensively in character animation pipelines. Once you get into Messiah you realize how slow those other packages are, but then they are full-featured, Messiah is tailored.
The Point-Oven plugin is probably the only viable solution for exporting animation from Messiah, a feature that should be included in the Messiah package!

Layer01
12-21-2005, 05:55 AM
bah, as much as the edit sphere can bug me too, its not so bad once you stop "fighting" it. if its all a matter of thinking differently, you have to not think in the more normal manip way and let messiah coax you into thinking in an edit sphere way lol. after a while it clicks, its really not thats hard, annoying at first but really not that hard. i dont bother with using the XYZ channel shourtcuts, gets too much, wayyy to many buttons lol, i just click and drag the apropriate icon in the viewport.
and messiah is much easier to animate in than xsi.
just release your mind....be one with the sphere....let it guide you.....OOooooooommm


and while we're at it. PMG! CHANGE THE DAMN SPHERE

SearchingSoul
12-21-2005, 08:49 AM
and while we're at it. PMG! CHANGE THE DAMN SPHERE

Haha ... same for me. I got WEEKS to accept this behaviour.

But add me to the List "Now, i do all my Char. Animations in messiah *love*"

DMack
12-21-2005, 09:48 AM
For me, there are too many times that the edit sphere freaks out on me, like when you have sharpish angles to the screen (covered in numerous other threads). So, It's not just about learning to use it....when it freaks out, there's nothing you can do.

I'll join the 'group beg' PLEASE PMG do something about that edit sphere!!

These thread just keep popping up don't they?!?! I really do hope that the PMG guys are listening - it goes quiet fr tooo long - it would be great if they took a leaf out of Lux's book. (Brad posts a weekly progress report with examples - started when they honestly and openly admitted they couldn't hit a deadline).

It baffles me every time - animate is an awesome tool...let down by a few ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL areas that an animator will use hundreds of times an hour......

SpikeWorx
12-21-2005, 12:39 PM
*signed*:deal:
'Standard' handles that work like in other packages (XSI, Maya) :)

Labuzz
12-21-2005, 01:01 PM
signed:deal:

STANDARD!

stooch
12-21-2005, 03:34 PM
I'm very happy with the speed I can animate in LW8.5... But very unhappy with the destructive rigging process. I need something that has the ability to easily setup muscle bones, flabby fat etc for a project that is coming up. Thats why I was looking into messiah.
But I think that widget will only make me feel like ripping my hair off my scalp... and then
eating it...
Has anyone any experiance with XSI for character animation?

Or any other ideas on a good substitute for character animation? Something that has the ability to export back to lightwave for rendering.

I dont think you will ever find a program that fits you if you cant handle the widget issue. because other packages have their own grievances. but its your boat, you steer it.

hairy_llama
12-21-2005, 04:48 PM
learning to use the sphere is a no-brainer.

You can "click and drag" on Lightwave's handles as well and it will behave
in the same fashion. I allmost never use lightwave's handles like this for
character animation as it slows my process way down. It is handy to
have sometimes, for precise placement of objects, but I find that It's
allmost never important for the character animation that I do.
And it is a major buying factor for me.

Obviously some people will love the widget as it is, I just think
there should be a an option to switch it...

I just tried the XSI demo, its translation and rotation tool is great.

We'll see what I think about the rigging and and animating process...

stooch
12-21-2005, 11:04 PM
man, there is more to a program then its translation tools. but whatever.

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