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Lyneran
12-20-2005, 01:43 PM
yikes! this is going to be embarassing, and i might end up hating myself for doing this, but if there's a small chance something might help me improve even a little bit, then i'm gonna give it a go. i see how other people are improving immensely because of their own threads and the workshops and sketchathons so.. here goes nothing. :shrug:

ok first off, a bit of bg. i'm a beginner. i didn't draw at all as a child because i thought people can only be artists if they're born with a natural knack for drawing. i never thought drawing was a skill that can be learned. grr one of my biggest regrets.. :rolleyes: i only realized this a little over a year ago, and started learning from online tutorials, books and forums. i'm hoping to take up multimedia arts next year. so basically, i don't have natural talent in art, no bg of formal art education at all, and i started doodling and teaching myself a bit too late i think, but i'm very passionate and determined about this so i'll work my butt off if that's what it'll take to shove these anatomy lessons into my noodles. :scream:

btw, i've been lurking around cgtalk for awhile, but participated only recently in the betty edwards exercises. i finished the exercises (which are great for starting out btw!) but didn't get the chance to post anymore. now for the next step, i've started studying anatomy. i visit the threads in this corner of cgtalk the most and i'm really inspired by ALL the hardworking people here. :thumbsup:

c&c would be most appreciated! tear my work apart and dissect it part by part if you must, you're most welcome to. :)

-Lye-

Lyneran
12-20-2005, 02:00 PM
ok, starting out.. here's what i've done so far. i'm trying my best to analyze what i'm drawing and not just copying them like what slux said in his thread. thanks slux!

i try to sketch everyday even if for just a bit. here are just two drawings i made today (referenced from photosets courtesy of hong ly). btw, i use a4 paper and clutch pencils. too gray right? i'll try to improve my tones by using softer pencils next time. should i work bigger? i'm having trouble working on her face because it's so small.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/121705a.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/121705b.jpg

-Lye-

Lyneran
12-20-2005, 02:04 PM
i made 1 drawing referenced from hong ly's photosets, and a skull drawing that seems too long. grr.. i wish i noticed these things while i'm drawing and not after. now it's mocking me. this wasn't a very good day for me.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/121805a.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/121805b.jpg

i got the skull ref image from here (http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface/anatomy/cranium.jsp).

-Lye-

Lyneran
12-20-2005, 02:09 PM
i made a copy of a master's work and some ballpoint pen gestures. err, do gestures from the tv count? i was going to do gestures from life but people from my country become suspicious of strangers looking at them. i think people thought i was making fun of them or planning something funny. i'll try to make neater gesture sketches next time.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/121905b.jpg




http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/121905c.jpg


after michelangelo. arrrgh the head is wrong, now why didn't i notice that before. rats..

-Lye-

Lyneran
12-20-2005, 02:20 PM
i got sick today because of the changing weather here. i started drawing from a ref picture but my cold forced me to stop working on it. i never even got around to adding toes to the foot.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/122005wip.jpg


my work looks as bad as i feel right now, possibly even worse. but! one big thing i did for my anatomy studies today is start my own anatomy thread :) anyway, the day's not over yet, if i feel a bit better later i'm gonna do some head studies from loomis' books before i sleep. i'm in danger of being kicked by myself if i waste this day.

also, we're preparing for the holiday celebrations of course. :) wheeee!! i'll give myself a break for the holidays. but after that no more slacking off, and i hope to exert more effort in my studies..

ok that's it for now. bye guys!

*update*
i managed to do some loomis head studies before sleeping last night, but i see plenty of mistakes now so i'm gonna do more studies of these.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/122005a.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/122005b.jpg

-Lye-

Rebeccak
12-20-2005, 04:44 PM
Lyneran,

Hey, I'm thrilled you've created your own Anatomy Thread! :) I can't take a look at your work at the moment, but will definitely do so later on. :)

Great to have you aboard, and I'm happy that you've been inspired by all of the wonderful and hard~working artists around here! :)

Looking forward to seeing your progress! :thumbsup:

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
12-21-2005, 06:16 AM
Lyneran,

Ok, finally have a chance to really look at and consider your studies. So far, I would say that you are doing a terrific job! I think creating your own Anatomy Thread is the perfect and logical next step in learning about figurative drawing and painting ~ and so far, it looks as though you are making a committed and careful study of the figure, which I think is fantastic! :)

Don't be too hard on yourself in the beginning. And it's important to think about the fact that most of learning how to draw ~ or learning how to do anything ~ is, for most of us, 90% hard work. It's not to deny that there are some with natural ability ~ but I have heard time and again over the course of my artistic development, from professors, employers, etc., that they would rather see someone with less talent but with a greater work ethic, than a talented person with a poor work ethic. Drive is everything, and can make up for and overtake talent. So do not overestimate talent. It's not necessarily on the side of the person who has it. ;)

Having said that, I think that you do have talent, and I have no doubt that if you continue to steadily work on your drawings, you will see significant improvement in your work. :) Take things at your own pace, and absorb everything as you go. There's no rush to the finish line, as really, you will be learning throughout your life. Definitely enjoy the process. You mention Slux ~ he's a really great example of someone who is definitely enjoying his studies ~ I really like how he's making notes about what he is thinking about as he is doing his drawings. You may or may not wish to do something similar ~ writing, at least for me, helps to cement certain concepts in my brain, and so the combination of doing various drawing exercises, + noting your thoughts about them, may prove to be helpful.

Looking forward to seeing more of your work! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Slux
12-21-2005, 11:27 AM
Hi
I'am glad you find my "advices" usefull and also that someone actually reads it :D

Nice start I think you are on the right track - I'am in similar position as you, no formal training and I have started quite late - when I was 20 ehmmm and I'am still 20 :D
But no worry I think if you work every day you will get wherever you wish end up

what I find usefull is to work inside-out .... bones -> muscles -> and whole model
Its much easier to analyse model if you know your anatomy well ... because there is so many things that you won't notice until you start to look for them ...
but anyway so far good work ... keep practising :arteest:

- Slux

Corvax
12-21-2005, 11:49 AM
...I'am in similar position as you, no formal training and I have started quite late - when I was 20 ehmmm and I'am still 20 :D...

Don't worry, from what I read, Michelangelo's first drawing and paintings are dated to him being around 21... So you still have time to catch up *hehe* :D

Slux
12-21-2005, 12:56 PM
Don't worry, from what I read, Michelangelo's first drawing and paintings are dated to him being around 21... So you still have time to catch up *hehe*

Heh thats good to know ... so I still have a chance :D good, good ....

- Slux

Rebeccak
12-21-2005, 01:19 PM
Hehe, I think some of Michelangelo's earliest documented pieces are from when he was 14 or 15 ~ copies of Ghirlandaio, if I'm not mistaken. Additionally at a young age, he was an apprentice in the garden of Lorenzo de Medici.

Here's a Wikipedia article that I found:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelangelo

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Corvax
12-21-2005, 01:28 PM
Hehe, I think some of Michelangelo's earliest documented pieces are from when he was 14 or 15 ~ copies of Ghirlandaio, if I'm not mistaken. Additionally at a young age, he was an apprentice in the garden of Lorenzo de Medici.

ooh... I guess we got into the game to late then.... *sigh* ....you'll be able buy my tablet on eBay soon :sad: :D

Rebeccak
12-21-2005, 02:01 PM
David,

Yeah right!!! :scream:

Lyneran
12-21-2005, 08:50 PM
@ms.k
hi thanks for the kind comments and advices. :) yes you're right, i've come to learn that drive and passion are more important than natural talent, because i've met many people who have it but are doing nothing with it. hmm.. maybe i have been taking things too fast, i'll try to relax my pace a bit :) and yes i've been watching slux's thread for awhile now and learning a great deal. i really enjoy hanging around this whole subforum actually. i've been wondering when you're going to update your thread as well. hope we newbies aren't taking too much of your time :scream: really appreciate having an anatomy master here with us :D

@slux
heya slux! hehe i've read through your entire thread actually great stuff and great advices :thumbsup: hmm.. i think i'll try that, i'm gonna start with the bones as soon as i finish posting :) thanks! very much appreciated!

@corvax
well michelangelo didn't have cgtalk or ms kimmel now did he? :D and anyway, it's never too late and it doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you keep trying right :) oh and great stuff in your thread i love your work so keep em coming :thumbsup:

Rebeccak
12-21-2005, 09:19 PM
Orig. posted by Lyneran: i really enjoy hanging around this whole subforum actually. i've been wondering when you're going to update your thread as well. hope we newbies aren't taking too much of your time really appreciate having an anatomy master here with us :D
I think that's great that you enjoy it so much, it's good to hear. :) With respect to my own thread, LOL, I think that in the coming year there will be a lot of new work appearing, as I have been asked to do collaborate on a book with Ballistic Publishing. :) There aren't a lot of concrete details that I can give out just yet, but the project will be kicking off very soon, and it's something I'm really excited about.

I don't consider myself an 'anatomy master' ~ I'm learning just as much as everyone else on the Anatomy Forum, and it's been a great privilege to interact with so many different artists at different stages in their lives and artistic paths. :) You 'newbies' keep me interested in the subject matter and remind me of the excitement of learning. :)

well michelangelo didn't have cgtalk or ms kimmel now did he? :D
LOL! Well, I agree, I think that forums such as this one make information sharing incredibly fast and thus learning much quicker. I've been really impressed at the pace at which folks here on the Forum who have worked hard have improved. :) Digital tools make the process much faster (and less messy) as well. But both Digital / Traditional work is welcome on the Forum. :)

Glad to have you aboard!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
12-21-2005, 09:31 PM
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/122005b.jpg

I cannot tell you how much i love this! I keep watching this... and it's such a great additional/explanational material to the loomis instructions.

:)

Lyneran
12-21-2005, 09:48 PM
first off, did i mention i love cgtalk to bits? :D thanks for the input guys, very much appreciated!

i'm gonna try to slow down a bit, i wanna make sure i'm getting everything i need out of my practices and not just producing drawings. i also vaguely remember reading somewhere that the brain needs to do some "background processing" when trying to learn something or everything will overload and go in then just go out. well, i don't know how much truth there is to that or if i even remembered correctly :rolleyes: i'll try and see if that works out.. but being a workaholic, i'm pretty sure it won't be long before i'm itching to practice again.

anyway, i just threw together some of the practices i made this morning. there's more but they're too much of a mess, i couldn't put them together. the ones at the top are studies from loomis, practicing the neck and the bony parts of the construction. the head below that was a test to see if i remembered the neck muscle practice correctly. and i made the eye study in photoshop, to relieve some of my frustration and stress.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/122105a.jpg

i love drawing eyes. it's strange but when i get frustrated with my studies i do some eye studies and it relieves me. :curious: i think it's because i don't need to worry about construction and placement. that's why there are tons of eyes scattered all over my sketchbooks, one for every moment of excruciating frustration :banghead: :scream: ..then again maybe i'm just plain weird and trying to make up excuses for it :D

-Lye-

Lyneran
12-21-2005, 10:48 PM
@ms.k
wow you post fast ok now i understand where the "beccaphobia" idea came from :D that's great news about that collab with ballistic publishing!! that's definitely something to look forward to :applause:

@mr. mu
thanks, and yes this forum really does help a great deal in addition to the loomis books :)

-Lye-

Lyneran
12-22-2005, 11:11 AM
i grabbed the ref images from the sketchathon thread and tried them out myself, and now i'm hooked!! here are my 2,5,15's..

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/1.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/2.jpg


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/3.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/4.jpg

all made in ps using graphire3 btw, and all refs are here (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=298699). these are really refreshing to make, the 2min ones especially get me into panic mode. :scream: i recommend doing them in between longer renders.

i'm really having trouble with my 2min ones, most people capture the movement nicely in this exercise but i usually make so many mistakes it takes me all of 15 mins to correct enough of them to make it look a bit understandable. i never even get around to adding a face at all. so far, my sketches are messy and i'm not sure if i got what i was supposed to, but they were a heck of a lot of fun to make so i hope i get better at this :)

-Lye-

Rebeccak
12-23-2005, 01:37 AM
Lyneran,

These are fantastic!! :thumbsup: Run with it, you're doing really great! :)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
12-28-2005, 05:06 PM
hi guys! hope you had a great holiday! as for me i took a longer break than i planned to, and i'm quite eager to get back to learning anatomy now :) i'm going to start with the bones, i'll continue doing those 2, 5, 15's but i'll stop posting those for now coz there's too many with little difference between them really. anyway here are skull studies (ref from "anatomy for the artist" by sarah simblet, excellent book! got it for christmas! yay!:bounce: ) i have a hard time remembering stuff i learned from previous studies when the perspective is changed, measurements and distances change and it can be quite confusing.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/122805.jpg

i'll do a couple more roughs before i attempt full studies again. hmm.. learning the skull is harder than i thought, it might take me awhile to upload again.


-Lye-

Rebeccak
12-28-2005, 08:02 PM
Great stuff, Lyneran! Keep it coming! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Zapan
12-29-2005, 07:27 AM
Awesome work is going on here !

You're drawing a lot as I see and you're sharing lot of good tips and technics :thumbsup:

Keep up the great work :bounce:

Gunilla
12-29-2005, 07:58 AM
Great work here - I really like the last skull study. Sensitive and beautifully drawn :thumbsup:

Lyneran
01-16-2006, 01:39 AM
[ @ ms.k, zapan & gunilla ]

thanks guys much appreciated!
hi guys! :) long time no post. well here's what i've done during the past week.

i'm determined to go through Loomis' entire book drawing the head and hands. i've printed it out a long time ago, read it many times but drawn very little from it. this is one of my problems, i love to collect learning material but i don't maximize what i can get from it. most of the time i just read it or draw things that catch my attention. if i amass all these great books and references only to let them collect dust, i'll end up being a collector and not an artist. so here's the first batch: (i decided to go through everything, even the ones i already drew just to keep pace with the book)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/010706.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011006.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011206.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011306a.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011306b.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011306c.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011306d.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011306eresized.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011406.jpg

Lyneran
01-16-2006, 01:48 AM
(cont.)

everytime i finish a plate from Loomis' books, i draw many heads from imagination based on what i've learned, just to see how much i've grasped. i've got many, many bald heads all over my doodlepads. here are a few (photoshopped together from diff. pads)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011606.jpg


then i do some skull studies from anatomy for the artist. if i have a difficult time with a particular part, what i do is draw from reference, then immediately draw the same thing from imagination. i compare it with the reference then mark & write all corrections (angles & proportions only). then i draw it again, make more corrections, then draw again and so on. i think of it as weeding out what i think i know from what i really know. then i do the same thing with the whole skull. the skulls from the 2nd picture are drawn without reference (still many mistakes, i notice new things as i keep drawing)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011606b.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011606a.jpg



i'm not sure if my study method is working, but this is what i'll stick to till i find something better. i'm still doing 2,5,15 min gestures and i'm going to add master studies to it. i'm really eager to get to the rest of the body, but i promised myself i would go through this entire book first.

i've printed out a lot of master drawings (i can't find a book of it anywhere and i don't have means of buying through the internet. i'm living in the stone age!! :banghead: ) but i can't find a lot of head studies. any help would be appreciated! by the way, here are some nice sites i've stumbled across, for those who haven't found them yet:

>> this (http://www.rad.washington.edu/atlas/) is helpful for those studying muscles, it shows them individually on the bone and tells where they insert and what they do.

>> this (http://insideout.rigb.org/ri/anatomy/casing_the_joint/joints_explorer.html) is an interactive flash that lets you move a skeleton. i don't know how helpful it might be but it's kinda fun. :D

-Lye-

SpiritDreamer
01-16-2006, 12:09 PM
Hi...Lyneran...:)

Just finished looking at your thread...I like your learning method a lot, and it looks
to me like it's paying off big time. By the looks of your last page, I SEE a big advance
in your feeling and understanding of the suject your dealing with..DRAWING..
Your line work is becomeing very relaxed, and much more expressive.
That sideways face and shoulders, the one with hair really shows it.
I also really like your speed drawings...show a good understanding of volume.
Human atatomy understanding, is a process learned over a lifetime, and new things
will be discovered every time you deal with it....It looks to me like you have chosen
the correct path, that leads to understanding, and I am really looking forward to SEEING
your progress on this journy you have chosen...:thumbsup:
For doing head studies....look around you..lots of people i'm sure...if not, look in the mirrror.:)
Take Care
Glenn

Icey
01-16-2006, 01:42 PM
i had the same study methods and the same references :) Keep them comin' - drow as muchas you can!! that's the best thing to do :)

Rebeccak
01-16-2006, 03:07 PM
Lyneran,

Some really impressive work and progress here ~ I admire your dedication. Keep up the good work!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

erilaz
01-17-2006, 11:07 PM
Lyneran,

Some really impressive work and progress here ~ I admire your dedication. Keep up the good work!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Heh, I was about to write the same thing! Stunning dedication to your learning, and looking really good at the same time!

Lyneran
01-22-2006, 09:27 PM
[ @ spirit dreamer ]

thanks so much for dropping by, and for your words. i have been aiming for understanding from the start, i get much more satisfaction from producing a flawed drawing that i know i learned something from, than when i'm able to produce a decent drawing that was simply copied and taught me nothing. as for the journey, still a loooooong way to go but i'm enjoying every single step, and it's people like you who make it so much more fun! thanks a bunch, VERY much appreciated :)

[ @ icey ]

really? wow! then i'm definitely gonna keep them coming & hope this method & these references work for me as well as they did for you! Love your work! thanks for dropping by you just poured a great big bucket into my well of motivation :D

[ @ ms. k & erilaz ]

a lot of times my frustrations threaten to swallow up whatever amount of dedication i might have, but you guys help me deal with & keep those frustrations at bay. thanks so much. :D

Rebeccak
01-22-2006, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by Lyneran: a lot of times my frustrations threaten to swallow up whatever amount of dedication i might have, but you guys help me deal with & keep those frustrations at bay. thanks so much. :D
Awww, that's so sweet of you to say...:) ~ it's surprising given your talent, but we all have our self~doubts...very glad and honored to help keep you motivated, you're very talented, so shouldn't give up your artistic pursuits! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

default-rol
01-22-2006, 10:11 PM
Go on Lyneran!! :cool:

As soon as my current project is out of the way, I'll be trying to catch you up on the "Drawing the head and hands" book....

MIKE ;)

Lyneran
01-22-2006, 10:25 PM
still more Loomis studies.. getting along slowly (but surely i hope).

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011806.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/011906.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012106.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012206.jpg

i took my time studying the planes, then i did a couple of head studies from imagination.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012306.jpg


although the planes help me feel the solidity of the head and lessen my struggle with construction a bit, i still have a lot to work on. ok here are some 2, 5, 15's now (i'm tired of seeing only heads in my thread)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/5-122205.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/6-123005.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/7-010306.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/8-010606.jpg


impatience & obsession
err.. i kinda need advice on this. my obsessive self keeps nagging me to study the head till i can draw any kind i want from any perspective (or till i go insane and the heads start talking to me :surprised whichever comes first) but my impatient side keeps telling me to study the whole figure now. i wanted to focus on the head first but should i maybe reduce the time i spend on heads and start studying the rest of the figure?

i'm definitely going to finish this book till the very last head either way but erm.. maybe i should stop posting my Loomis copies and just post those drawn from ref or imagination?

-Lye-

Lyneran
01-22-2006, 11:03 PM
[ @ ms.k ]

thanks so much. :) btw awesome new workshop!! i really wanted to join but unfortunately i have no means of paying through the internet even if i somehow brainwash my parents to endow me with the cash. :cry: well, hopefully there'll be a next time right? and there's still your ballistic book to look forward to so i'd better start saving up.. or at least work on my brainwashing skills. :scream:

[ @ default.rol ]

thanks for the encouragement, will do :thumbsup: looking forward to both the outcome of your project and your head&hands studies!

Rebeccak
01-22-2006, 11:22 PM
Lyneran,

Thanks a lot! I appreciate your support. :) You have some really nice work here! As usual I'm impressed with your dedication and accuracy...very nice combination to have! :thumbsup:

impatience vs. obsession
err.. i kinda need advice on this. my obsessive self keeps nagging me to study the head till i can draw any kind i want from any perspective (or till i go insane and the heads start talking to me :surprised whichever comes first) but my impatient side keeps telling me to study the whole figure now. i wanted to focus on the head first but should i maybe reduce the time i spend on heads and start studying the rest of the figure?

i'm definitely going to finish this book till the very last head either way but erm.. maybe i should stop posting my Loomis copies and just post those drawn from ref or imagination?
I think you should start studying the whole figure. You (not the personal, but the general, you) will never 'master' something enough to move on...there are always new things to learn, and you seem to have a really good grip on drawing generally, so I would see no problem with you moving on to study the whole figure. You can always return to the head, it's not going anywhere as a subject. ;)

Looking forward to seeing some body studies next! Maybe start with Loomis since you really seem to understand him perfectly. Then move on to the OFDWs if you feel so inclined! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Slux
01-23-2006, 10:37 AM
Hi
Really nice Loomis studies and I like characters from the movie as well its nice to hear that you think about characters from storytelling point of view as well ... I think its quite important especially for designers becasue it makes you characters more believable :)

And about your problem yeah I totally know what you mean ... I get stuck on one thing very easily as well ... but I think that its not very good because of several reasons

- Its very frustraiting because after while its not fun anymore and its just hard work and this will probably change your whole attitude toward drawing .. and I believe your attitude is very important because after a while you may notice that you think about drawing as hard fork rather than fun and you will have tendency to do less of it .. because your subconscious will discourage you from it.

- Dali said "Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it" and thats it :) you may spent a lot of time on one thing trying to master it but you probably never will and even than when you would think you know it enough as soon as you would move on another subject and could see your knowledge from perspective of new informations you would probably find out that you don't know as much as you have thought. I believe its quite important to study more things than just one becasue it helps you to think in new pespective.

and here is something I have found on the net - something to think about
Perfectionism is like a double-edged sword--it cuts both ways. Perfectionists often don't realize that they are hurting themselves by their own actions. Perfectionism is a duel with oneself, the ultimate "no-win" situation.
Perfectionists tell themselves that their determination to be perfect will win success, acceptance, love and fulfillment, yet the opposite more often occurs. Even when perfectionists do achieve, the methods they use can deprive them of the very love and acceptance they want so badly to gain.

So my advice is if you don't want to frustrate yourself and want to progress faster work on more things then just one - for example do a quick study of whole human body and work on one part little more and you may do a study study of whole body again and so on.This will keep you motivated and you will learn more.
Try to draw more from imagination its fun.
And most important thing is make sure you are having fun, it will help you progress very quickly ... because more fun you will have more you will enjoy it and because of that you will want to draw more and you will enjoy it more and so on ... upward spiral - but be aware it works other way around as well!
Uff I could talk about it for hours (no kidding) but I think thats enough .... Peace :)

- Slux

Lyneran
01-23-2006, 01:12 PM
[ @ ms.k ]

thanks so much, you cleared that up for me so well. i've been itching to get started on the rest of the figure and that was just the push i needed. i'm definitely going to make full figure studies now, and i might try the ofdw if i gather enough courage :)

[ slux ]

hi slux thanks for your thoughts, learned a lot from you as usual. :) doing full body, then parts, then full body and so on is a great idea. i think i'll do that.

you're right, it's just too easy to get stuck on one thing because of our perfectionist side, and it gets really frustrating and takes away some of the enjoyment. i always try to remind myself that this uphill climb is one that's on a topless hill, because it will never end and there will never be a point when you will reach the top and people will pin a sash on you labelled "artist". like ms.k said, learning takes a lifetime. sometimes i just get kind of obsessive :D i really enjoy reading your posts thanks for taking the time to share them.

-Lye-

Mu
01-23-2006, 02:46 PM
and i might try the ofdw if i gather enough courage

excusé-moi? I beg your pardon?

Care to look at the crap I posted as my first submission in the OFDWs? Take another look at the things you post in this thread of yours...

Noticed anything?

Yea, exactly... you will have a hard time trying to post anything as crappy as that first post of mine.

Just dive into it - head first. It will do you good with that new resolution of yours to go full figure and all.

We'd all be enjoying your entries!

Lyneran
01-30-2006, 08:35 PM
[ @mr. mu ]

thanks for the encouragement mr. mu, but you really shouldn't put yourself down so much, esp since you're working hard and making progress (i'm always spamming your thread remember? :) ) and besides that's why we're all here, to learn. about the ofdw, the thing is, i really don't know much about value yet (much less color) so i'm thinking of studying the tutorials around here first. but i will definitely join in sometime soon, and as always i appreciate your kindness. :)

ok here's this week's output. as promised, i reduced my focus on the head and started working on the whole figure. it was kind of a relief really, i've been dying to get to the rest of the figure.

here are a couple of master studies. before making these i studied Loomis' proportion & mannikin charts, i won't post those anymore but they really helped me to construct as opposed to just copying these master drawings. i noticed a big difference when i made these and when i made my 1st master copy (micheLangeLo's Libyan sibyL) because now i found it slightly less difficult, less time consuming and much more educational. so now they really are studies and no longer just plain copies. all this made it more enjoyable, and i can see now why these are so valuable in learning anatomy. :)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012406a.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012406b.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012406c.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012406d.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012406e.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012406f.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012406g.jpg

learned quite a bit from these, but still a looooong way to go. i will definitely keep going back to these pieces from time to time.

Lyneran
01-30-2006, 08:43 PM
(cont.)

next up, some mannikin gestures from Loomis (i made up the ones at the end to fill in the space).

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012706aresized.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/012706b.jpg


and here are some studies from imagination. i haven't studied the muscles yet, so i wouldn't be surprised at all if you find lots of flaws. please feel free to point them out. i'm always very much open to corrections. :) these are based on Loomis' mannikin + stuff i picked up from the master studies + guesswork.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/013006a.jpg


a couple of quick heads from imagination:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/013106a.jpg


i will definitely study the muscles and make more master studies, but for next week i think i'll do a few more Loomis heads since i've gotten my motivation back :)

-Lye-

Rebeccak
01-30-2006, 09:01 PM
Lye,

Some great work here! :thumbsup: Really great to see your progress... :) Looking forward to checking this out more thoroughly when I get home. ;)

Wow, just clicked on one of your master studies (sorry, I'm at work, so am in no images mode) and it's amazing! Fantastic work! :)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
01-30-2006, 11:58 PM
Lye,

I'm quite pleased to see that your Master Drawings are quite different from your Loomis pieces ~ I think I was worried that you might draw a bit mechanically, but your master copies prove me wrong ~ they are really nicely expressive, and display a whole different side to your art...it's great to see that! :) Your Loomis studies are fantastic, and I would love to see more people doing these ~ but your artistry is definitely coming through in the copies, which is nice to see. :)

You're doing a terrific job, and I look forward to your next set of drawings! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
01-31-2006, 12:18 PM
Hi...Lyneran // Anne...:)

WOW !! ...Really like those studies alot...you have air in and around your figures..NICE..:thumbsup:
When you go to painting, be sure to keep that air also...GREAT JOB.. :) ...BEAUTIFUL...:)

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Lyneran
01-31-2006, 04:18 PM
everyday i realize more and more how much there is to learn & consider in drawing, both how to draw & what to draw. the comments made me think of this again (because i was so focused on construction & have no idea what ms.k & glenn just pointed out to me), it can't stop at just accurate anatomy & correct rendering, there has to be more to it. i used to look at famous artworks and wonder "huh? what's so great about that? it's just a pencil sketch of a naked person doing something ordinary. maybe it's because he/she is doing it naked that makes this artwork so famous?" LoL now i know how stupid i was, & i'm glad i'm seeing things differently :scream:

also i'd like to mention that before i came across this forum my goals were just to learn enough about anatomy so drawing people wouldn't be such a pain. anatomy was like the calculus or chemistry of the art world for me, a difficult subject i just wanted to pass so i can focus on other stuff. now it's got me fascinated!! it's my favorite subject to study now. :love:

[ @ ms.k ]

thanks a lot for your kind comments ms. k :) i'm not sure i understand the difference between drawing mechanically and drawing expressively yet, or how to achieve either, so whatever it is i'm doing, it's not intentional or at least not conscious. :shrug: sounds kinda good though, if it is then i hope i keep doing it :) hopefully i will come to understand all these things and actually do them on purpose. great new avatar btw! that's definitely you in a posting frenzy hehe :D

[ @ spirit dreamer ]

thanks so much :) like i told ms. k, i don't really understand this "keeping the air" either. it wasn't a conscious effort, i was just thinking about the construction & proportion, and then just light source. i didn't attempt to do more than what i've gone over in my studies, because i knew i'd just confuse myself. well hopefully i'll be able to keep that air when i finally move up to painting. thank you for the kind words! :)

whoa Long post. too many words from me now.

- Lye-

SpiritDreamer
01-31-2006, 06:12 PM
Hi ....:) Lyneran // Anne
Air is when outter edges, and inner formes of the figure go fom being crisp to almost
vaporous, and become invisible like air....letting the viewer use there imagination to complete
the form....atmospheric lighting of a figure, like atmospheric perpective in landscapes, adds mystery,
and a whole other dimension to your painting and figures....A good example of what I am
talking about can be found in the FAVORITE FIGURATIVE ARTISTS LINKS frame #24
page # 2 ....Caravaggio. ... :) REMBRANT was also a master of this technique, and
would also be another one to look at. I'm sure Rebecca has a lot of other good examples
for you to see also. Would really be worth your while to check them out...I THINK...
FAVORITE FIGURATIVE ARTISTS LINKS. is at the top of the list ...front page of this forum.
I really like your work...and working method, and am looking forward to seeing .. MORE ..

TAKE CARE
Glenn

raptor|3D
02-09-2006, 11:00 AM
Hi Anne,
really nice progress indeed, keep drawing :).
Your heads from imagination are great (especially the last girl head).

Lyneran
02-21-2006, 03:46 PM
hi everyone, i'm a bit busy doing stuff for school so there hasn't been any drawings from me for awhile. i was able to poke around the forum a bit though, and i was able to work on this study from sarah simblet's anatomy for the artist.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/simbLetstudy1-feb18-21.jpg


although it was a rendering practice, the main purpose i made this was to get an estimate of how long it takes me to paint a single complete figure (i'm thinking of joining the ofdw so i wanted to test myself first). it was also a practice of patience. i wanted to try something i needed more than one sitting to complete. feel free to point out mistakes, i might get a chance to tweak it a bit more. i can't paint hair to save my life, but i'll be sure to study more about it.

btw i ordered drawing lessons from the great masters (hale), dynamic anatomy (hogarth) and complete guide to figure drawing (ryder) from amazon and it arrived yesterday! :bounce: it was a hassle picking them up from the post office and it took a great big chunk out my allowance but it's worth it, i'm loving hogarth already and i'm looking forward to making studies of his work!! :love:

[ @spirit dreamer ]

thanks for clearing that up for me, i really appreciate your kindness & guidance. :) i checked out the artists you mentioned, and their work was awesome!

[ @raptor|3D ]

thanks jarda, hope to see more stuff from you too.

-Lye-

Rebeccak
02-21-2006, 03:56 PM
Lye,

*Gasp* WOW!!! :eek: :bounce:This is amazing...I think you should have no problems with the OFDWs...:D Good lord, this almost looks like a photo! Amazing work!

Only a few small crits...try to make the edges feel not so cut out (the outer edges of the figure). The only real weak area of the painting is her left thigh...that area is a bit less rendered than the rest, but this is a small complaint...you should check out Linda's hair painting tutorial if you have not already. It's probably the best on the web. :)

I'd love to see you post a Tutorial, either here on your Anatomy Thread, or on the Anatomy Forum at large ~ if you want ~ great work!!! :applause::applause::applause:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

raptor|3D
02-21-2006, 04:24 PM
Wow, that is really impressive!

My only crit would be that her right leg could be thinner (instep, foot and calf ) ~ I mean the area down from her right knee could be a little bit less fat. And maybe the head should be a little bigger.

But anyway fantastic rendering in the spirit of hyperrealistic style. I thought that´s the photo reference at first, looking for some drawing below until I saw the dots indicating which colors were used. Excellent! ;)

looking forward to more of your studies from this book ...

Rebeccak
02-21-2006, 04:33 PM
Lye,

An amazing photorealistic artist is Helnwein:

http://www.helnwein.com/

Some of his work is really creepy, but I am a huge fan of his work. He also lives in an enormous castle! :eek: Photorealism must pay...:D

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
02-21-2006, 04:51 PM
[ raptor|3D ]
thank you for pointing those out. my brother (he's ahbeejieh around here) also noticed the head which is why i kept tweaking it during the process. i'll stare a bit more at the reference and hope to find the cause of the mistakes. thanks for the kind comments :)

[ @ms.k ]

thanks so much for your kind words! and thanks for pointing those out, i hope to find time to do something about the left thigh and edges. very much appreciated :)

i've skimmed through enayla's hair tutorial but while reading it, i find myself drooling over her work and forgetting altogether what i was doing in the first place :D but i've saved it and i'll be sure to study it and practice, practice, practice.

about the tutorial, err.. i don't really have anything new to share since everything i know, i learned from here. i'm a 'tutoriallectual' myself. :D so i'll just share this gif of my wip's: (i made it small to avoid loading problems)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/simbletstudywip.gif

and here's the reference (i don't want to get in trouble for this so i placed a watermark on it).

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/simbletref.jpg

and wow! thanks for the awesome link ms.k! that guy makes magic with acrylic! i'll go snoop around his gallery a bit more. :D




-Lye-

SpiritDreamer
02-21-2006, 07:45 PM
Hi...Lyneran // Anne...:)

All I can say, is what Rebecca alraedy said..... WOW !!....:thumbsup: :applause:
There are some important principles of light and shadow, that would greatly improve your
work...at this point....they can all be found in Burne Hogarth's...DYMAMIC LIGHT and SHADE.
Also..a fun exercise.....see how much of the edge of the figure you can get rid of...soften...
fade into background ect....but still have it be reconizible....on a different layer or version
of course. It's a great way to teach yourself about the principle of air in your figures, and
will help to get rid of a cut out look, unless that is what you are going for.
Looks like you are improveing by leapes and bounds....keep up the GREAT WORK, and keep
posting it...a real pleasure to see it...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Zephyri
02-23-2006, 10:43 AM
Hi Lyneran,

its great to see someone else working their way through the loomis books.. I've just started with figure drawing myself, and I did exactly what you did.. bought loads of great reading material and only took the tinest bit of knowledge away from it. You've got great dedication, and great talent judging by that last post, amazing! Will most certainly be popping in here often to see how you're getting on.

And on a random side note, I think Michael Jackson must be a fan of Helnwein, as I knew instantly that his work had been featured in one of the booklets that comes with one of MJ's albums, and on searching, found it. Great work though, photoreal, but there's more than just a photo to it too, a slice of the artist's darker side.

Lyneran
02-23-2006, 06:17 PM
[ @spirit dreamer ]

thanks so much glenn! always a pleasure when you drop by. i finally found a bookstore that carries dynamic light & shade, i hope it'll still be available when my i recover from my last splurge! but i'll be sure to check it out, and i'll try that exercise too. i'm starting to see the mistakes i made that led to the cut out look, i'll do some tweaking before i start on my next study. you guys are so kind, thanks so much. :)

[ @zephyri ]

thanks so much sam! i love your stuff & i'm looking forward to seeing the results of your studies, so i'll be coming over to spam your thread! helnwein's stuff is really great, i saw some celebrities in his picture gallery, but i didn't know about michael jackson. not surprised though, i love the mood in his paintings, and the photorealism adds to the creepiness. imagine one of those on your bedroom wall. i can't imagine how disturbing it would be to have a huge lifelike child's head staring at me when i'm trying to sleep! :surprised thanks for dropping by!

-Lye-

Octopodi
02-23-2006, 06:30 PM
hey, I admire your work, you're really talented and your dedication can be seen in your work. You could easily get the impression that you would have drawn your entire life. Can't wait to see more of these :)

Ego
02-23-2006, 06:41 PM
Anne its so great to finally stumble into your thread. I am sad that I am just now discovering it. You are doing a wonderful job. Your tenacity is paying off..this is great stuff you are doing here. Now I wont loose touch with this thread :)

Rebeccak
03-01-2006, 08:43 PM
If you haven't already, you should totally join the Challenge!

http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/journey_begins/enter.php

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
03-02-2006, 07:13 PM
[ octopodi ]

thanks so much, you have no idea how appreciated these encouraging words are. :) you're doing great work yourself, keep going!

[ queensoul ]

hiya queenie! glad you stumbled across my humble doodlepad. thanks for the kind words. goodluck and have fun with your challenge entry!

[ rebeccak ]

yikes! to be honest, i'm tempted to take the dive for the learning experience, and it looks like a lot of fun. i probably wouldn't be able to finish though. i've been thinking a lot about it, but for now i'll just be a spectator/spammer/cheerer. :bounce:

-Lye-

Lyneran
03-08-2006, 04:57 PM
hi everyone! exams are finally over! :bounce: but now comes the excruciating wait for the results. :argh: oh well at least i have time for drawing now.

i finally found time to tweak my simblet study, i found out that i accidentally changed the background color to pure black during the final stages (originally dark brown), i think it might have contributed to the cut out feel. i tried to fix that a bit, and i also noticed that some edges had light parts that i forgot to blend, so i added some shadows at these parts. it's a bit blurry now and could probably use a little more tweaking but i think it's time to leave this now and move on to the next piece.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/simbLetstudy1-mar08tweak.jpg

here are a few studies from sheldon borenstein's book. (sorry it's messy, i photoshopped them together and removed my chicken scratch notes)

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/030806a.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/030806b.jpg

btw, i've finally made up my mind not to join the challenge, i know i would learn a lot from it and have plenty of fun, but i don't even have the courage to join the ofdw's yet so i think i need to tackle that first. one baby step at a time. but i'm still enjoying the challenge and learning a lot by watching the threads. :)


-Lye-

Rebeccak
03-08-2006, 05:44 PM
Lye,

Just breathtaking work on the OFDW painting! :eek: :bounce:Great stuff, I really encourage you to submit your painting to the Gallery ~ just make sure to include the link to the Reference photo as well (so no one will ask if you traced). I know for a fact you haven't, and I just want to make sure the issue does not get raised, as your image is beautifully photorealistic. :)

Just fantastic figure studies as well! By the way, Lye, your brother left me a kind message (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=3300197&postcount=213) on my Challenge thread. I was really moved by it, and it sounds like he's really proud of you (as he should be). :)

I can understand your shyness re: entering the Challenge, but hope you will do so the next time 'round ~ you certainly have the skill for it! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
03-08-2006, 05:45 PM
Hi....Lyneran //Anne....:)

Really like those last sets of gestures ...all of them...and also like the way you lost the cutout
look on that BEAUTIFUL rendering of that woman.... keep up the GREAT work....:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

LoTekK
03-08-2006, 06:12 PM
Holy jesus. Those skintones are gorgeous! :eek: The rendering is fantastic, but those skintones! :applause:

erilaz
03-09-2006, 10:49 AM
*BOOMF*

That was my jaw hitting the carpet.

Wow, just wow.

Jack Shannon
03-16-2006, 09:45 PM
Lyneran,

Amazing progress, your andrew loomis studies are wonderfull, I'm going to subscribe to this!

Cheers,

~Jack

CalvinChoy
03-28-2006, 02:24 PM
Nice to see the Loomis drawings that u've make, I've to say that the drawings looks very good, if not the same . . . almost the same as the images in the books !

I just started my own Anatomy Thread, and also planning to follow the Loomis books :) Probably going to do the same like you hehe. . drawing all the stuff in the books :)

Cheers,

Calvin

Lyneran
04-04-2006, 01:36 PM
[ rebeccak ]
hi ms.k thanks so much! yikes! finished thread? :argh: err.. i'm kind of reluctant to post there because i don't really feel these are finished. but when i start making my own illustrations i'll make a sketch/wip thread, and i'll put these practice pieces there for sure (but that won't be till after many many master studies). i always hesitate when taking new steps of any kind especially when it comes to my work, it's a big problem but i'm working on it. i think that's one of the reasons my brother left you that message, he's grateful for the encouragement and help i've gotten from the people here (you especially), which is difficult for me to get because i tend to shy away and lurk. :rolleyes: :D

[ spiritdreamer ]
hi glenn! thanks for those lessons about air, now if only i can apply them! :D thanks for dropping by, always very much appreciated. and ohmygosh! you're doing zbrush stuff now!! awesome! :bounce:

[ lotekk ]
hi lotekk thanks! about the skintones, i just painted whatever colors i saw on the ref so i didn't really make any color choices on my own. i'm trying to learn how to pick my own colors now. thanks for dropping by! very much appreciated :)

[ erilaz ]
thanks so much martin, i love your latest digital painting as well!

[ jack shannon ]
hi jack thanks for dropping by! your studies are great, i'm amazed at what you can do at this early stage. keep em coming!

[ calvinchoy ]
hey there calvin thanks, Loomis helped me a lot although i am yet to finish studying his books. i'm sure you'll learn a lot from him too. be careful not to fall into the same trap i did, i focused on the head too much instead of studying the whole together with the parts. i'll be watching your thread!

-Lye-

Lyneran
04-04-2006, 02:08 PM
wow so many changes! okiedokie.. updates! although i haven't been posting, i'm still working just as hard to improve my understanding of the figure. since i'll be studying this forever anyway there's no reason for me to put other things on hold, so i'm studying perspective and a couple of other stuff in addition to anatomy now. :)

here are some studies from sheldon borenstein's book. i finally finished the whole book!

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406a.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406b.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406c.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406d.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406e.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406f.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406g.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406h.jpg

my hatching and linework need a lot of work, i'll practice more and try harder. any advice would be appreciated. :)

Lyneran
04-04-2006, 02:11 PM
and here are some master studies:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/040406i.jpg

after prud'hon


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/wbstudy1.jpg


bouguereau taught me a lot even with just this 1 head study. i have a gif of my wips but photobucket corrupts it. oh well :shrug: anyway here's the ref:


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/wbref.jpg


c&c welcome, i'm always open to corrections and any pearls of wisdom you guys might be able to share. :)

-Lye-

Rebeccak
04-04-2006, 02:23 PM
Lye,

I can't comment in depth on your pieces just at the moment, but let me say that your work is beautiful, and it's so exciting to see you making such strides! :thumbsup: I love the Bouguereau piece * the iris and pupil of the eyes are done especially well, and you have a great sense of the person being painted. The one quick comment that I would make is that Bouguereau's piece is a touch more 'cold' in terms of the skin, with bluish pinks and greens that make her skin look cool to the touch. Bouguereau has this thing it seems with ethereal light, and her dress is infused with it as well.

Needless to say this is a great update, and I'll try to post more comments later on. Keep up the great work! :)

Cheers,

*Rebeccak

CalvinChoy
04-04-2006, 05:21 PM
Lol, to be honest . . I like your version maybe even more. The skin tone gives a more warm feeling, very nice *thumbs*, fits the summer :p

Jack Shannon
04-04-2006, 06:59 PM
wow that last painting is awesome. You improved hair wise as well :)

SpiritDreamer
04-04-2006, 08:39 PM
Hi....Lyneran // Anne....:applause: Surprised, but not surprised....hard work always has it's rewards...looks like yours is paying off
big time. The edges on that portrait are great....soft in the right places, and hard in the right
places...it has air, and atmosphere, which is creating a BEAUTIFUL MOOD...GREAT JOB...:thumbsup:
The colors...well you made her look like a little ITALIAN child, instead of a little IRISH REDHEAD with freckles....but she is still BEAUTIFUL, LOL!!, AND ONLY A PARENT WOULD CARE....:)
Command of color will come with time, and a lot of practice, just like everything else in life.
I am pretty sure that you will have it mastered shortly.:scream: :thumbsup:
Also really like the two full rendered drawings above...you might study the wrist and ankle
bone structure, and how the muscles tie into them...goes for all the joints really...a strong
knowlage of joints will pay off in the end, and will increase the beauty of your figures ten fold.
REALLY pleased to see these latest updates...GREAT PROGRESS HAPPENING...for sure..:bounce:
KEEP EM COMEN....:)

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Rebeccak
04-05-2006, 07:52 AM
Lye,

Photobucket will automatically shrink files that are over 1 MB (effectively corrupting them) so you might want to either shrink the image size of your psd before creating your gif, or alternately, create jpgs and post a sequence here. :) It would be great to see your step by step! I think JPGs are just as useful as a gif to see the process. :)

Cheers,

*Rebeccak

Lyneran
04-05-2006, 09:34 PM
[ rebeccak ]
hi ms.k thanks! i'll post the wips right after this. you're absolutely right about the cold skin. on my last study (the one from sarah simblet's book) jack shannon complimented my use of skintone and i thought, i can't really take credit for that because i just painted the colors that i saw from the ref (i still didn't get it exactly though *doh!*). i decided i would pick my own skincolors on my next study and deviate from the reference, but of course that was stupid of me. i lost the whole point of the master study!!! grrr.. how was bouguereau gonna teach me about colors if i deviated from the colors he used?! i should've picked my own colors with the ref photo and followed the colors on the master study. :sad: :banghead: oh well at least i made those mistakes early on so i won't make them again. :) maybe i can revisit this painting and try the cooler skin and perhaps do the whole painting sometime. thanks so much for all your tireless help! always very much appreciated!

[ calvinchoy ]
thanks so much, maybe too much heat got into my head when i made this? :D still, nothing ever beats the original of course. thanks for dropping by calvin!

[ jack shannon ]
hi jack! thanks, especially for noticing the hair. it's one of my enemies. :D thanks for dropping by!

[ spiritdreamer ]
hi glenn! thanks so much! whatever progress i make is largely thanks to you guys here (the rest of the credit goes to the masters & the authors of my books, and my brother of course). in fact, this is one of my many attempts to absorb what you've been teaching me about air so i've got you to thank for that! i'm always bugging you with my questions and you're always kind enough to answer them. :) and you're right she does look italian! :scream: study wrists, ankles and other joints, gotcha. btw, the nearby stores don't have conte crayons (the ones you recommended me to get on one of your past posts) :( i may actually have to venture to the *gasp* outside world. :argh: :D thanks again!

-Lye-

Rebeccak
04-05-2006, 09:43 PM
Lye,

Gosh, I didn't mean for you to take the skin tone comment as a big criticism ~ quite the contrary, it was just a small observation, you shouldn't be too hard on yourself!! You are doing a fantastic job, and it's great to see all your hard work and effort pay off beautifully. I hope you didn't take my comments the wrong way! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
04-06-2006, 12:23 AM
[ rebeccak ]
oh not at all ms.k i was already thinking about my mistake while working on this, you have no idea how much i appreciate your help. :) and unfortunately i don't have art professors to push me to improve, so it's necessary to be hard on myself. don't worry i reward myself by indulging in games and comics so it's a pretty good deal.

ok here are my wips for the bouguereau study. first of all, i don't think of this as a tutorial of any kind, i'm not experienced enough to make one (which you will undoubtedly see). so keep that in mind, because i could be wrong on a lot of things here. (i'm always open to corrections!) however, whatever little knowledge i might have i'm more than willing to share.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/wbstudypaLette.jpg

1st i decide on my colors. (look at that mess! and it's digital! can you imagine me with real paint? :scream: i continually add colors to my palette in the middle of painting, that's why it's a mess. :wise: ok ok so i'm a messy worker to begin with. :D) i fill my canvas with the bg color and blot the colors on a new layer above that, so i can see how the colors match with the bg. then i move the entire palette layer to a new file with white bg so that when i eyedrop them, i can get the exact color i originally chose without the bg affecting it. i keep this file open next to my study & ref image. oh and i mix my colors on the palette now. i used to apply the color on the painting directly and mix there but i mess it up and it becomes muddy, so i decided to pretend it's real paint. maybe someday i'll learn to go straight to the canvas with the right colors but for now this method works for me.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/wbstudya.jpg

uh oh.. didn't realize the image was that big. :surprised sorry ms.k!! anyway i didn't start with lines this time, because spiritdreamer has been kindly teaching me about air in paintings so i used paint to feel my way around the form. i flip the image when something feels weird.

i'm only using 3 base colors: midtone, dark parts and bright parts. or whatever they're called. i use the midtone to create the big shape, push back with the dark color and push up with the lightest color. like clay, only 2d. for the really dark parts like behind her neck and the top of her ears i don't cover the bgcolor. i only use these colors to make sure the values are right, other artists use black white & greys but i use browns instead just because it becomes the base for my skin color so it's easier to blend other colors in afterwards. personal preference i guess.

at this stage it's really tempting to give up, because it's ugly. i always wonder why the heck i'm saving progress shots i don't know if i'll even finish. but just keep at it anyway, there's always a chance you might reach the end in one piece.

it's also tempting to think "the forms will come out once i add the real colors" but for me that doesn't work. if the forms don't read well at this point, even if the colors are beautiful it will look wrong so i try not to rush this stage even if i'm bored.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/wbstudy2.jpg

ok finally the colors. i kind of brush the colors over lightly (with the opacity and flow controlled by the pen) then i blend it in. i didn't use the smudge tool on this, because i wanted to see if it's possible to skip on the smudge tool.

i used greens, very very light ones in the bright areas and dull ones in the shadowy parts. at the start it looks like a mannequin because of the green so i add vibrant red at parts like the cheek and nose (brushing it lightly or else she'll look like someone slapped her!!) and a mix of red and purple for the shadows. about the lips.. i've never painted those before so i groped around in the dark for the colors. can't say much about that sorry.

i left the eyes out till much later, because if i get the eyes right away i will be fooled into thinking the whole image seems alive even if other things are underworked and i will be tempted to stop. this is just me dealing with my own weaknesses really. (that third image looks like someone from silent hill!!)

i'm also struggling with the expression at this stage, bouguereau captures the "little things" so wonderfully. i learned that the tiniest changes in the face contributes to the overall expression and feel, but it's so subtle that we can sometimes tell something's different between 2 images (for ex. the orig bouguereau and my study) but can't really point out what. this is what really makes me love bouguereau's work, the little things. of course i could go what the heck! and just settle for the expression i arrived at even if she looks lifeless but then i would have lost the point of studying the master's work. i might not be able to capture it in the end, but trying to get there anyway teaches me a lot.


http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a190/Lyneran/cgtalk/wbstudy3.jpg


ok getting there.. the neck was too fat so i reworked that. the cloth.. umm don't know much about that either but i used dull light blue and worked the whites on top of it gradually. finally the hair, i used my 3 base colors again because i have no idea what to use. i'm just painting what i see again at this point, i hope to learn how to pick my own hair colors next time. i place the darkest colors first, then work the middle color on top of that to make it brighter and finally the brightest color. then i repeat using gradually smaller brushes to detail. it's not really detailed or even clean, i'm not on good terms with hair but i'm going to keep wrestling with it.

well that's about it. all this stuff is already out there in various tutorials and embedded in master works, already known to more experienced artists than myself. this is just for those who are starting out with master studies like me. in the end i wasn't able to replicate bouguereau's mastery (far from it), but the point of the exercise is to learn anyway. for one study, i pick up a few lessons, then another study, new lessons, and so on. so there's really no pressure as long as you keep studying and not just copying. don't pressure yourself, it will only hurt your progress. more important than all these how's is to make sure the why is crystal clear. why do you study these things? so you can show off to your buddies? to get recognition? as long as the answer remains simply because you love it and get a rush out of molding color into things that evoke feeling (both yours and the viewers) or tell stories, you can't go wrong. the how's will follow.

whoo.. longest post i've ever made. this is pretty much a summary of things i've learned since i hopped onto the anatomy forum, so a big big thanks to all of you guys for this. :) ok i'm going back to painting now (no rest for the wicked!!)

-Lye-

Rebeccak
04-06-2006, 12:44 AM
Lye,

I tremendously enjoyed reading your post, and there's a lot of wisdom in your words! You sound like you're really analyzing and internalizing the painting process, and you've expressed your thoughts beautifully. :) It's great to see the step~by~step shots, and anytime you wish to post a Tutorial independent of your own thread, please feel free. :)

Great stuff, Lye, you're very impressive!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

jbballaran
04-06-2006, 01:17 AM
Hoy musta pagaadik natin? :) Next time post kana sa finished 2d forum a? You'll need to get started sometime. Pwede nayan, sobrang lupit mo na compared sa nakikita kong ibang posts. You guys out there had better watch out, my sister's getting warmed up already :) And she hasnt even started her formal schooling yet :scream: Thanks again Rebeccak. This forum's really pushing her to her full potential :thumbsup:

Rebeccak
04-06-2006, 01:29 AM
Aaaaahhhh, I'm going to have to learn to read Tagalog! :scream: :D Great to see you here, ahbeejieh, when do we get to see your Anatomy Thread as well? :) :deal:

We're well aware of your sister's potential, and I think it's great! :thumbsup: Great to see you stopping by. Definitely join in! :)

EDIT: Btw, I think she should submit her finished work to the Gallery, too. ;)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

jbballaran
04-06-2006, 11:45 AM
Hi rebecca :) Sorry bout the language barrier there :P Yeah, I was telling her to commit to a finished piece this time, and not just a practice piece, so she can post it in the finished forum. I'm telling her that she's already got enough talent in rendering to get enough response from people on that forum, but she still wants to push her skills a little more I guess. I'm sure she's getting there, just trying to find her comfort zone in doing these paintings :)

As for me, it'd be great if I could start my own thread. It might do my portfolio good to have these anatomy drawings that you guys do in here. But alas, I dont have the time and the resources at the moment. Lyneran and I use the same computer both for practice and for my freelance jobs as well... And at the moment I'm also practicing my stuff coz I want to get into concept design. I'm still looking for concept design stuff to include in my portfolio. That's my focus for now coz I really want a job in the industry. So not really much space left, timewise, for me to commit to a thread of my own at the moment. But thanks for the gesture :)

Rebeccak
04-06-2006, 02:33 PM
LOL, no problem. :) I definitely wish you the best of luck with finding a job. It's great to see that you and Lye are so supportive of one another. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

heartbeat
04-06-2006, 03:22 PM
Hey :),very nice thread.The Loomis studies are so accurate and clean.And you do them in very analytical way.The paintings are also great.

M.

raptor|3D
04-14-2006, 11:27 PM
Wow, that bouguereau study is amazing (prud´hon´s one is great too). I would say you are taking your art skills to the next level pretty quick! Looking forward to next images.

Gabriel
04-15-2006, 07:26 PM
Hey Lyneran,

You're figures are really looking great. And WOW to your painting!
Looking forward to further development and inspiration = )

PS: Do you use the book "dynamic anatomy"?

Lyneran
04-20-2006, 01:23 PM
hi guys thanks for the feedback, i meant to reply sooner but i keep forgetting sorry. (i forget what i'm supposed to do when i'm browsing all the great stuff around here :) )

[ rebeccak ]
hi beckie glad you liked reading my rambling :D thanks for all your work on the spotlight forum btw, great to see the finished ofdw's in one place.

btw, i've been meaning to ask you this question if it's ok (might post this later at the random questions thread for everyone else) how long did it take you to become comfortable with rendering and inventing the human figure? and were you able to create complete pieces back then? because it's really such a struggle for me right now, i have to constantly kill half my brain cells just to render one figure and even then it still looks unnatural, so you can imagine how difficult it is when i attempt to render a full scene, background and all. (and of course there's still composition, perspective, color, gahhh.. :argh: ) does rendering the human figure realistically become second nature at all?

[ ahbeejieh ]
arrrgghh pressure!!! :D i'm trying to make a complete piece, really! soon i hope! if you buy additional ram for my pc i promise i'll force myself to make something for the finished gallery :p nyahaha.. :scream:

[ heartbeat ]
thanks for dropping by, very much appreciated :)

[ raptor|3D ]
thanks so much, you're very encouraging. i think that was a freak growth spurt of some kind, and my development has now returned to its usual snail's pace :D slowly but surely is still better than fast and soon forgotten!

[ bhairava7 ]
hey there, thanks a lot! and yes i'm currently devouring, absorbing and dissecting hogarth's dynamic anatomy. i bought a ream of the cheapest paper i could find and studied away (cheap paper helps me not be afraid of screwing up and wasting it) i might post studies soon when i start using better quality paper.

thanks for dropping by guys!! :bounce:

-Lye-

umbrellasky
06-01-2006, 10:00 AM
WOW!

Amazing thread! So wonderful to see your progression! Stunning work, I'm truly inspired!

lildragon
06-10-2006, 11:22 PM
Lyneran, I really, really enjoyed your thread, your progression is a true inspiration! Your loomis studies are brilliant! Now all I need is your dedication to get my thread moving in the right direction!

There's one thing I was wondering from your paintings, how do you go about choosing your beginning color pallete? I always seem to have problems there.

Cheers!

NR43
07-09-2006, 10:53 AM
Hi,

After I went through your thread for the 2nd time now, I realized I hadn't thanked you yet for inspiring me with your work. Seeing your loomis studies made me ordering them books and starting to work harder on improving my drawing.

So thanks! :)

Keep going your work is amazing

D4ng3rmouse
08-03-2006, 11:18 PM
Sorry to repeat what everone else has been saying but have to say that after reading all of this thread I again feel inspired to take up drawing again. When the anatomy forum first started I tried to join in and did sketch a bit but found that the last year of my uni course got in thw way a bit. Now its finished though I have more time while im looking for a job and after reading this i feel reinvigerated (if thats the spelling) :). Its really nice to see your progress from the beginning of the thread to the what you are doing now, its pretty amazing. I love your paintings as well they have such a great feel to them. Keep up the good work, think I'm off to start my own personal anatomy thread :) and see if I can improve just like you have. See ya

SulaMoon
08-10-2006, 08:04 PM
...wow
..jus, wow

amazing!
Where are you? Just come back, will ya?
Awesome work, keep it up! Hope you update again soon!

Lyneran
09-06-2006, 03:36 PM
hi guys :) sorry for leaving my thread untouched for so long, school work ate up all my time last term and i only had time to drop by a few times and only for a few minutes. now i have a week of free time before the next term starts again. sorry for the late reply, but i really appreciate all the comments!!

[ enialadam ]
hi there thanks for dropping by. i'm really glad you were inspired, i hope you keep drawing and painting :)

[ lildragon ]
hello :) thank you, i'm glad you enjoyed seeing my humble efforts at improving.

about choosing my beginning colors, first i go with 3 colors so i can concentrate on the value (light, medium, dark, usually browns) then from there, i choose the rest of the colors depending on the subject's setting (the surrounding colors in the bg, her actual skin color, the color of the light falling on her skin, etc.) for example, if there is yellow light falling on my subject's skin, i open a new file, mix some yellow with the skin colors i used, then pick out the resulting color and brush it over my image. if my subject is in a blue room, i mix some of her skin color + shadow color with blue then brush the resulting color over some of the shadowed areas.

no need to be afraid of experimenting with the colors. even if you make a mistake, you can always paint over it or just start over. the best thing about digital art is it's never too late to paint over anything. :)

[ nr43 ]
wow thanks, it's so nice to know you were inspired. i hope you keep working hard & keep falling in love with art. for sure you'll get there :)

[ d4ng3rmouse ]
wow thanks so much, i'm glad you feel encouraged to draw again, keep working hard i know you'll get there. goodluck with your job hunt as well :)

[ SulaMoon ]
hehe sorry, school will be the death of my art education ahaha i will try to update more often thanks for dropping by :)

Lyneran
09-06-2006, 03:45 PM
although my thread has collected dust, i didn't stop practicing painting and drawing. here are some of my latest studies, both directly done in photshop cs with a graphire3. they are facial anatomy studies with no ref. (i hope to do more full figures soon)

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/bLog/fLame.jpg


http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/bLog/peachy.jpg


i forgot to save wips for the first image, but for the second one here is a gif: (i hope it works )

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/peachywip.gif


that's all for now, i'll try to be around more now. hopefully my next term won't be as taxing as the last one. see you around guys :D

NR43
10-12-2006, 12:56 PM
Hey

one of my greatest sources of inspiration here at the anatomy forums!
those portraits look very serene.

I guess school is eating up most of your time but I would still love to see you get more work up here... we miss that!

Rebeccak
12-04-2006, 06:33 PM
Heya Lye,

Good to see you posting again. :) For some reason my computer is slow to load your images, but I hope to see more of your stuff soon. :)

NR43
10-31-2007, 11:16 AM
Hi!

I think your thread was one of the threads that has set up the right frame of mind inside this old bugger's skull... so I'm keeping it alive just in case you decide to come back and post more of that lovely stuff that can be found here already :)

Lyneran
11-01-2007, 06:44 AM
hi guys sorry for neglecting my thread again. i lost my password, my wacom died and school got really busy. thanks to nr43 for reminding me about my thread :)

i still try to practice when i have time. here's some stuff i did while i was away:

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/illumination.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/the_calm_after_the_storm.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/crimson.jpg


http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/emerald.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/gaze.jpg

some doodles..

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/star.jpg

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/doodle090707.jpg

Lyneran
11-01-2007, 06:47 AM
(cont.)

and some wips..

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/wip090707.jpg

(this one's cut out of a bigger wip)

http://www.fileden.com/files/20262/cgtalk/reverie%20wip_thumb.jpg

that's it for now. i will practice some more! you guys have inspired me again! thanks! see you around :)

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