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View Full Version : Tutorial series: Cat like creatures


AlexK
12-18-2005, 05:29 PM
You might have seen my other thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=302489), were I show a bit about the panther we are doing right now. Would anyone be interested in a tutorial package showing the complete pipeline? We thought about it since this project started.

There seems a desperate need for more tutorials for Messiah and we really like the idea of teaching people how to solve or improve their skills. In Germany we offer coaching for different software packages (http://www.softwaretraining4u.de) , but we never did a tutorial CD before. I always liked the idea though, to produce some good quality tutorials.

I thought about something like this:

Modeling (probably Silo)
UV-Layout and Texturing (well, depending on the release of Silo 2.0 either there or with Wings and zBrush)
Rigging (well, Messiah of course!! I can't believe you are asking!! :twisted: )
Animation (same)
Workflow between different apps (using PointOven to transfer the animation to Maya and back and maybe some more general thoughts about workflow and what's to pay attention for)
Fur (probably Shave and a Haircut)
Rendering (probably a combination of several renderers - Messiah and Renderman, MentalRay or Maya's internal renderer)
Compositing (probably some general compositing techniques to comp passes. Which passes make sense and how to comp them. Probably using shake or AfterEffects or using a simple 2D program like Gimp, I don't know)


And maybe not on a panther (cause that would be a bit nosy concerning our customer, I guess), but more of a tiger or a lion or something.

Would there be interest in the Messiah community? In all of the above parts? Or just some?

Let's say all of the above parts would make one CD each, how much would you pay for one CD? How much for the whole package?

Any input is welcome.

stooch
12-18-2005, 07:26 PM
i think id pay like 20 bucks for a cd but as a package it should be a deal like maybe 100-120 dollars. keep in mind that the market for this isnt just messiah community btw. any 3d artist would benefit from this and you should market it as such.

kennez
12-18-2005, 11:08 PM
Yeah, probably around $20 for a CD. I'd definately buy the rigging/animating one, and also the Shave one, as I have Shave for Maya, but haven't gotten very far with it due to the lack of tutorials.

Razr
12-18-2005, 11:16 PM
I'd got with $20/cd, the package would depend on the number of CDs.

Layer01
12-19-2005, 02:11 AM
i would buy the set in an instant. as for CD price i think anywhere between $25-$40 depending on how much is on one cd. set price should be the price of all CDs together and then take off the price of a couple of cd's. so its like you 1 or two free.
but whatever the price scheme i'd buuy it lol :p
there really isnt enough training for messiah and something like this is very much in need, and i love the idea of showing how to work with mith multiples apps. And seeing as silo V2 should be out in march could very well be a posibility. also i'd use photoshop to do the textures and not gimp, i think enough people have/use photoshop, so as they will get more out of it.

aforetaste
12-19-2005, 02:11 PM
Yeah, I'd be interested.
Any training for Messiah is a good (and too rare) thing.

Agree with the above. Maybe $20 per disc...

aforetaste
12-19-2005, 02:15 PM
sorry, CGnetworks is running like sludge

Layer01
12-20-2005, 12:17 AM
what's with all the $20 dollar estimations? i think thats being unrealistic, by the sound of things these would be very complex and probably long tutorials (better imho to have them on dvd btw) and if you look at the competition, joe cosmans CDs are $25 each, Gnomon stuff $40-70, 3d quakers stuff is $45 dollars, kurv studios average the $44 mark. and the list goes on.

Joe's are extremely cheap for video training, and certainly not the norm.
these sort of dvd's/cd's take ages to produce and there has to be an insentive for the creator to actually make them, usually $$$ ;) and considering Messiah isnt the largest comunity in the market (as opposed to say max or maya) it explains why we see very little training come our way. interestingly enough i think AlexK's idea for a series is good cause it spans multiple apps and thus widens his market etc..

now i'm not saying we should be paying astronomical prices but lets be realistic, dont scare him off with a few posts each offering a couple of bucks...hardly motivation i would think.
the least i think we can consider, as offering lol, is $25 seeing as it seemes silly to suggest less that what seems to be the most common rate in M:S training.
and also if he wants to offer them cheap fine by me, i'm just saying lets be realistic, he's not santa claus and has production costs to cover etc..

anyway....rants over lol...move along now :p

stooch
12-20-2005, 03:17 PM
Umm, your opinion about pricing is different from others, just say what you want for pricing and leave it at that. others may think differently so dont try to change their minds. i would happily pay 20 because to me thats how much they are worth, also joes have a bunch of tuts on one disk, no just a single one for a single thing.

in the end, whatever the price is set at, im interested to buy regardless.

AlexK
12-20-2005, 03:35 PM
Please, don't start a fight over this. Not that you did start one already, but I can see it coming.

I just want you to give me a reasonable answer. And of course I would also prefer if you all would say what kind of price the package (or individual CD's) are worth to you, not only what you want to pay for them. Cause, you of course want to pay as little as possible. I understand that completely.

But I won't say anything in that matter for now, cause I don't want to influcence anyone. I want a realistic spectrum, we could place our price in.

stooch
12-20-2005, 03:42 PM
hey now i dont know what you saw coming but its all in your head buddy. All i said is just say what you want to pay and dont try to make a statement with the intent to influence others. I dont think we need a public speaker here, just personal opinions, nothing more.

Cause, you of course want to pay as little as possible.

??? and what is that supposed to mean? I am all for supporting the developers, if you havent noticed my posts about donations. I just feel that the amount of content you have projected is worth 20 bucks and thats a perfectly fair sum IMO.

AlexK
12-20-2005, 03:52 PM
I wasn't trying to be a public speaker stooch. But after all this is my thread and I did ask the question, so I guess I may say something in that matter if I like?

And I wasn't speaking to you directly and wasn't thinking of you when I said something about fighting ok? Relax.

Concerning how many disks there are to be filled. I don't know yet. I don't think for example, compositing (just this panther) will be enough to fill a whole CD. We haven't decided yet on how many disks the topics might be spread.

stooch
12-20-2005, 04:01 PM
hmm it might help to specify how much content (time wise) or topics you intend to cover on a single disk.

my reply was directed at layer01 btw so the public speaker comment wasnt even for you.

AlexK
12-20-2005, 04:10 PM
That is something we have to put more thought in stooch, cause we aren't even finished with the panther project. Maybe there are some steps ahead that turn out to be more complicated than planned and might be well worth an extra CD?

But I just read my original post and there I asked under the assumtion that every topic I listed above would make one CD. So I guess we should leave it at that for now.

The idea was to make an initial check if there would be any interest at all. And second if there was enough interest and what these interested individuals are willing to pay for a tutorial series. Cause we need some information to see if this could work out. After all it takes some effort to prepare and create tutorials.

Parsec3d
12-20-2005, 04:34 PM
Ok ,, how about this,, instead of 20 for all of them 10 for each chapter cheap enought to
get it for all and also you could be posting them as you progress on the project maybe
a final polished version could be posted after you have finished the project and also you could think on some kind of pre subscription like pre pay 4 chapters and you will have access to all of them as they become available but that might end up being problematic,


any way it is totally up to you to set the price..

stooch
12-20-2005, 08:19 PM
how about this, instead of distributing them as cds and incurring the expenses, how about also allowing download ? it might be cheaper and easier for you to implement and give the user a much faster access once they paid for it and also allow to choose exact sections that are of interest.

Layer01
12-21-2005, 03:21 AM
Umm, your opinion about pricing is different from others, just say what you want for pricing and leave it at that. others may think differently so dont try to change their minds. i would happily pay 20 because to me thats how much they are worth, also joes have a bunch of tuts on one disk, no just a single one for a single thing.

in the end, whatever the price is set at, im interested to buy regardless.

oh stooch, you crack me up :P
of course my opinion is different from others, and i have just as much right to voice that opinion as you voice yours, and you can certanly think differently, and saying that i'm "out to change their minds" is a conflicting agrument, seeing as, what is it your trying to do in your post? maybe point out the error of my ways and help me change my views? and if not why post it at all?

i had thought it rather obvious that the CD's/DVD whatever would be full, and not contain one single tute. and if it was only one, it'd fill the disk (like joes, cause while his are in seperate files they are the same tute, i am reffering to his nate one here)
i dont think anyone would seriously consider releasing a tutorial cd that wasnt at least nearly full.

and as such i was mearly pointing out that while $20 is a nice price i have NEVER seen a tutorial video for less than $25, in fact joe's are the cheapest i have seen yet, and i guess i have/had doubted that the number of sales from messiah users alone could justify lowering the price, espesially if you consider that he is in germany and that $20 US dollars is only $16 euro. the average price for a DVD movie over there is about $20 odd euro from what i've seen. anyway i'm not his accountant lol, i was just raising a point cause it seems $20 is the default price people seem to offer when asked what they'd pay, and so i was pointing out that this may not acctually be feasible and there are certain things to take into account.

and a more important note, i like the idea of releasing them for DL and having them as chapters and released as they get done, in a linear fasion, so everyone ends up making the project together (can you feel the love! lol) and helping each otehr out....well in theory.
and lastly, sorry for getting you all riled up stooch, it seems this sort of no good down and dirty free speech mombo jumbo opinion giving is running rampant these days on forums all over the world, guess i fell victim to it too.
;)

and my appologies AlexK it was not my intention for this to turn into an argument.

Parsec3d
12-21-2005, 08:39 AM
,,well stoch sure I was talking about a download in my post and not about shipping one cd for each finalized chapter ...but thank you for clearing that out, (y)

stooch
12-21-2005, 03:28 PM
and lastly, sorry for getting you all riled up stooch, it seems this sort of no good down and dirty free speech mombo jumbo opinion giving is running rampant these days on forums all over the world, guess i fell victim to it too.

We all did. Why are you assuming im "riled up"?

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