Microsoft Windows Longhorn XP (Next version of Windows) Preview!!

[thedaemon]

that sidebar take up waaaay too much desktop space for my liking. I need all I can get for my 3d apps. "No sir I dont like it." Quote Mr. Horse. :shame:

[Gentle Fury]

they have actually managed to make the system uglier then XP!!!! and by the looks of it even more resources are wasted on useless eye candy!!!!!!!

yay go microshaft!!!!!!

[CTRL+X]

Not for me at all!!! it took alot of pressure just to get me to switch from NT to Win2000 recently.. Im good for along time with 2K... as long as Lightwave runs on 2K I will use it

thinking about the switch to Linux someday..

[SheepFactory]

I dont get it , Whats different than XP other than the more useless eye candy?

M$ is appereantly trying to appeal to the Mac OSX crowd with the big interface icon graphics , but imho it fails miserably.

i regret the day i bought win XP and i'll keep using win 2000 to the very last day the applications support it and than i'll probably switch to Linux rather than upgrading windows.



:thumbsdow

[Array]

I think the biggest problem is the color scheme. it just plain out makes me cringe :thumbsdow

[quinox]

and at the moment Longhorn is even buggier than Win95 (!)... you cannot even download files with explorer or the whole system will crash

Way to go MS! :p

[KiboOst]

Mu win2000 has long life to come .... Can't understand how microsoft can make such crappy UI ! Slow and takes all the place on the screen just for bar, less and less infos etc....No sorry, xp wasn't for me, longhron won't too...

Kib

[Bulldog]

The color scheme is very ugly , i cant believe MS is doing this :(

[red_oddity]

That's the problem when programs become real consumer programs.
They become these needless but-it-can-do-it-all-out-of-the-box pieces of software.
It goes from simple operating system to a full blown horribly designed program for your average joe (And it's not just MS that does this, just look at Apple, like we need any of that crap (especially that horrible Jaguar update in which you have even less choises on how your system works))


edit,edit,edit, my typing is as bad as MS UI design

[derelict]

it looks congested like bill's arse.

[vorlon]

MS is making it because if they don't, they can't make money off you. The current Win 2000/XP works fine now, but MS will kill support for them in order to force you to upgrade.

[wgreenlee1]

Longhorn????????????????????????????????????????


















wtf?

[FiveMan]

i hope there's some guy playing a french horn on the start up screen

[dark_lotus]

Microsoft and other companies have these stupid code names for things.

Either Longhorn or Blackcomb will be Windows.net

Whats different than XP other than the more useless eye candy?

it handles memory protection better, in my opinion.


Let us all rise and rally the companies to linux.

GO LINUX (and to a cirtain extent Mac)


The New Windows Filesystem is going to be scary.

[gL_spear]

i agree with 'Sheep Factory' they really are trying to magnetise Mac users with this inferface.
plus its probably full of more resrictions with regards to mp3 players and playing CD's on your PC.


:annoyed:

[Stimpy]

well as much as i dont like all that eye candy crap either, and as much as i still stick to win2k for this same reason, i cant help but be somehow excited about the OS´s finally taking on some color...

since, lets face it, win2k basically still looks like win 3.1

maybe soon we will have some neon transparency UI like in final fantasy or so.. would be neat.. maybe.

[samartin]

hey but u're all 4getting that the welcome screen now has a CLOCK !!! omg I need that software ASAP... :p

[Stimpy]

and paul has a butterfly.. w00t

[DotPainter]

Microsoft is also using this version to force compliance from HW vendors in a few areas:

1: Security
2: Graphics

The security part we all know about, but for graphics they want all graphics cards to support fully HW accelerated windowing system. This is to support all kinds of fancy things like bitmaps and images on windows and transparency. Yeah, like I really need that.....

I can get all of that now with Desktop X or Windowblinds......

Something just to make you go out and upgrade the video card, motherboard, CPU and everything else, so the system works with the new security and graphics schemes and doesn't run slow.....

Edit:

I just found out this from stardock.com, makers of the object desktop, which includes windowblinds and desktopx...

Microsoft, Nvidia and nintendo have liscenced the object desktop for their own use.........


The Object Desktop (http://www.stardock.com/products/odnt/)

[Gentle Fury]

why name it after a steakhouse??????

is there any significance to this??????

its like their ongoing naming scheme

windows CE ME NT

then XP

that doesnt fit with the cement scheme!!!!!

why longhorn????????? why not TGI Fridays, or Applebees?????


billy is a wierd guy.......i think he should start an alternative rock band next.

[ggg]

Originally posted by DotPainter
Microsoft is also using this version to force compliance from HW vendors in a few areas:

1: Security
2: Graphics

The security part we all know about, but for graphics they want all graphics cards to support fully HW accelerated windowing system. This is to support all kinds of fancy things like bitmaps and images on windows and transparency. Yeah, like I really need that.....
The Object Desktop (http://www.stardock.com/products/odnt/)
thats the problem, resources and developement of graphcs to support OS crap when my OS is usually covered up by my 3D app anyway, but, like gaming made 3D less niche maybe this will help us offering better graphics maybe 3d performance at less cost.

[Per-Anders]

i really don't think that this interface would attract mac users... it's hardly eye candy is it? at least os x looks kinda sexy and smooth... xp's default skins look... well... embarrasingly like something a 14year old kid knocked up with ms paint in an afternoon... sorry just my oppinion... to be honest from an interface point of view for graphics people (who make up the majority of mac users) a cleaner less obtrusive interface is better. win2k and nt were in fact better interfaces on this count, unobtrusive,, didn't use up all the system resources, look less child like. xp is no eye candy unless you really do have a fixation with ms paint's glorious output and the world of 4bit colour.

[minus]

Longhorn is just the code name they use to give name to the project untill they decide on a commercial name later. --- All the Microsoft Code names are the names of runs on some of the local skiing courses found in Redmond..

[heavyness]

long live Win2k

[censored]

the longhorn interface is going to change SO much by the time it comes out....theres 2+ years left of development time

[ambient-whisper]

you guys are funny.
for one. final interface is usually one of the last things to be done. like cencored said, there is still 2 years of development time left. i really see no reason to complain about the look here yet. even if XP comes with a happy little rounded look, you CAN change it to the classic look. the only thing that you cant really change are the buttons for explorer. ( whoptie doo )

i also dont see much resoning in saying that you dont like to have to upgrade so and so often. without software/hardware companies pushing for more...and making people upgrade youd be stuck playing pong for the rest of your life.

[derelict]

when will windows 2005 be coming out?:rolleyes:

[bentllama]

I am with Ambient and censored...

<RANT>

Why are you guys dragging this through the mud when it hasnt even been let outside yet.

Some of you may not have read to the bottom of the article...
"Longhorn isn't far enough along at this point to make any relevant conclusions." ...so bite yer tongues! :)

I don't know why people think it is "cool" to hate monolpolies and large corporations...

"ooooh that company is big so I must hate them..."
"ooooh that band is too mainstream so I must hate them..."
"ooooh that thing is actually pretty good, and the majority seems to like it, but I must hate it just to draw attention to myself and be seen as individual..."

</RANT>

whoo. now that my rant is over open up the floodgates and let the tears come pouring in...

[Goon]

i found this part rather astounding: Last month, some of those builds leaked to the Internet, causing a stir in the Windows enthusiast community.
i mean, i like windows because it supports most nearly everything. tried to switch to linux but that didn't go so well as far as drivers. But how can people actually be Windows fans!?

[Array]

muahahaha, your just saying that cus of your employer :) anyhow, microsoft has done it's fair share of competition stifling, and the activation schemes they have going are quite annoying. plus, the "Linux is the source of all that is evil" fud they keep on putting out makes me cringe more than any Mac Switcher ad I've ever seen.

Originally posted by bentllama
I am with Ambient and censored...

<RANT>

Why are you guys dragging this through the mud when it hasnt even been let outside yet.

Some of you may not have read to the bottom of the article...
"Longhorn isn't far enough along at this point to make any relevant conclusions." ...so bite yer tongues! :)

I don't know why people think it is "cool" to hate monolpolies and large corporations...

"ooooh that company is big so I must hate them..."
"ooooh that band is too mainstream so I must hate them..."
"ooooh that thing is actually pretty good, and the majority seems to like it, but I must hate it just to draw attention to myself and be seen as individual..."

</RANT>

whoo. now that my rant is over open up the floodgates and let the tears come pouring in...

[visualboo]

I'm with ambient, bent, cencored completely. Just wait till it at least get's a little closer to the release date.

Personally I could care less what it looks like because I can change that UNLIKE osX.

As long as it's not a step back (stability wise) from 2k/xp when they release the final version I'm good.

[Per-Anders]

you can skin osx... it's just that the best skin is the one that comes with it is the best...

http://www.stretch.tc/aquaworld/themes/themes.html

[visualboo]

hehe... nice. Thanks mdme. I almost didn't post that because I didn't know for sure.

visualboo+apple= :(
visualboo+pc's= :)

[Gentle Fury]

Originally posted by bentllama
I am with Ambient and censored...

<RANT>

Why are you guys dragging this through the mud when it hasnt even been let outside yet.

Some of you may not have read to the bottom of the article...
"Longhorn isn't far enough along at this point to make any relevant conclusions." ...so bite yer tongues!

I don't know why people think it is "cool" to hate monolpolies and large corporations...

"ooooh that company is big so I must hate them..."
"ooooh that band is too mainstream so I must hate them..."
"ooooh that thing is actually pretty good, and the majority seems to like it, but I must hate it just to draw attention to myself and be seen as individual..."

</RANT>

whoo. now that my rant is over open up the floodgates and let the tears come pouring in...


ummmmmmmm, nope, cant say i dislike them because they are big....i dislike them because:

A: My computer does fun things like turning itself off whenever it feels like it.

B: Microsoft/Windows doesnt know the first thing about resource management!!!!!! Everything has to be on C: you cant make a driver reference in another drive (so on the many occasions you have to re-install the lovely product you wouldnt have to re-install EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!!)

C: You have to format your drive and re-install windows about once every 4 months or so, or your computer just stops working.

D: You have to restart your computer ANYTIME YOU INSTALL MICROSOFT SOFTWARE!!!!!

E: To make that one even more fun, on the bi-quartly occasion that you get the joy of re-installing windows and have to go "update" it you can't just install all the updates and live on, you have to restart the comp after EVERY DAMN UPDATE.....theredfore making a task that should take 5 mins take 5 hours!!!!!

F: It is impossible to fully uninstall anything Microsoft. If you dont like Internet Explorer or Outlook and want to use something else......too bad, there is ALWAYS residual waste on your hard drive.

G: In being a monopoly (as much as you want to defend ole bill it is!) they restrict what OS you get to choose......well should i use windows.......or mac.........well........i honestly cant stand either!!!!! Linux would be great if you could run real software on it and it didnt take 10 hours to install things.

H: 4 words : Blue Screen Of Death!!

I: The first version of XP came installed with its very own torjan!!!!!! people that knew how to use the exploits could get into your system quite easily

J: It takes up 2 GB of HD space!!!!! And once you start install things (as every system file has to go to the C: it can get upwards of 4!!!! This is SLOPPY PROGRAMMING!!!!

K: No matter how you set it up, you STILL have to go in and manually clean up the :"temp" mess that is left after installing software.

L: A true resource dump can only be achieved thru either extra software that costs more money, or restarting the computer.

M: It is HIGHLY suseptible to spyware, adware, trojans, worms, and many other harmfull pieces of software that you dont even have to install on your computer to have them take over! (can we say outlook express)

N: The help files are far far far far from helpful. Type in a keyword and you get results that have NOTHING to do with what you typed.......or the dreaded questionere form of troubleshooting!!! Did you turn on your computer Y/N. Is your mouse Plugged in Y/N You could sit there for the rest of your life answering these useless questions to no avail!

O: Said useless "Help" files take up a LOT of space!!

P: The new versions are so cluttered with useless garbage on the screen that you are going to need a MAD machine to be able to handle all the wasted resources and still function to potential!

Q: Dr Watson can be an evil little bastard sometimes.


I think i've covered a few of my probs with microsoft.........we arent even getting into the unethical work practices that hold down the little developers......or the stealing of technology and passing it off as theirs........or the ultra concealing of source code (we dont advance unless we can improve what already exists!!!!) And of course, actually charging exhorbinant amounts of money for something that isnt really anything, it just lets your computer wake up! I would be more than happy with a free, no bells and whistles or added nifty features version of windows.......do they not make enough money with all the software they make, i dont think the really still need to charge hundreds of dollars for an operating system!!

and yes i hate bandwagoners too.....and the only thing i hate more.......is Apple!!!!

[Array]

Originally posted by mdme_sadie
you can skin osx... it's just that the best skin is the one that comes with it is the best...

http://www.stretch.tc/aquaworld/themes/themes.html

Actually you can run any x-windows desktop you want under OSX. KDE, Gnome, etc should all run after recompilation.

[Per-Anders]

Mr Fury, you appear to have a lot of pent up anger and hate issues. Do you want to talk about it? When did you first start to feel this way? What would you say to Bill Gates if he were in this room right now? Imagine this chair is Bill... really let your feelings out, here have this stick, now pretend the stick is Mr Jobs...

[SheepFactory]

LOL

[bentllama]

Thank you Gentle Fury for backing up your hate with quantative reason, like all good little haters should! :) :)

:beer:

[Gentle Fury]

you didnt think my name was just a random grouping of seemingly opposite words did ya??? :D

[ambient-whisper]

i wont get into everything youve said. as you made a number of valid points. but im going to have some fun :D

A: this is barely a windows issue. i think its more likely a sign of a weak power supply. or maybe you rmotherboard is failing.. or a bad ram stick..etc.etc. so hardware instead. not the operating system.

B: just about all my apps are actually on another drive all together from windows. i only install small little things on C: so i dont see how having apps away from C messes up anything.
the only things you have to reinstall are the applications that tie themselves into the OS. ( IE photoshop )
i have a number of apps that work perfectly without having to reinstall at all, Mirai, Clay, Wings. etc.

C: yes it can mess up. But you can prevent the 4 month cycle by NOT installing things like bonzai buddy. and crap software like that.
it is possible to have windows installed for ceveral years without a single format. just install what you need. and leave it like that.

D: i agree. restarting is annoying. but if its taking you 5 hours to do a 5 minute thing because rebooting takes so long. then perhaps upgrading that 20 year old pc would help :) most newer pcs. ( and especially with XP boot up very very quickly. )

F: you cant uninstall explorer because its completely tied into the OS. you browse your pc and the net using one software. if you uninstall explorer..then you cant open up a window to browse through your drives/files. i dont see how thats bad. but about outlook. you can get rid of that one.

H: again. probably some conflicts of hardware. or just cheap hardware. windows 95-8 and ME are horrible. 2k and xp are pretty DAMN stable. you shouldnt get crashes that are OS related. most often its hardware issues. so if you still run win 95. i suggest its time to upgrade :)

P: not really. but a 20 year old pc might have problems handling it.:)

Q: YES. i hope he rots in HELL.

as far as the unethical work practices. you have to consider teh fact that its a LARGE company. theres both good and bad people in there. with enough money its obvious that they will try to take advantage of things. i dont think theres one large company that doesnt try to cut some corners.



Originally posted by Gentle Fury
ummmmmmmm, nope, cant say i dislike them because they are big....i dislike them because:

A: My computer does fun things like turning itself off whenever it feels like it.

B: Microsoft/Windows doesnt know the first thing about resource management!!!!!! Everything has to be on C: you cant make a driver reference in another drive (so on the many occasions you have to re-install the lovely product you wouldnt have to re-install EVERYTHING ELSE!!!!!)

C: You have to format your drive and re-install windows about once every 4 months or so, or your computer just stops working.

D: You have to restart your computer ANYTIME YOU INSTALL MICROSOFT SOFTWARE!!!!!

E: To make that one even more fun, on the bi-quartly occasion that you get the joy of re-installing windows and have to go "update" it you can't just install all the updates and live on, you have to restart the comp after EVERY DAMN UPDATE.....theredfore making a task that should take 5 mins take 5 hours!!!!!

F: It is impossible to fully uninstall anything Microsoft. If you dont like Internet Explorer or Outlook and want to use something else......too bad, there is ALWAYS residual waste on your hard drive.

G: In being a monopoly (as much as you want to defend ole bill it is!) they restrict what OS you get to choose......well should i use windows.......or mac.........well........i honestly cant stand either!!!!! Linux would be great if you could run real software on it and it didnt take 10 hours to install things.

H: 4 words : Blue Screen Of Death!!

I: The first version of XP came installed with its very own torjan!!!!!! people that knew how to use the exploits could get into your system quite easily

J: It takes up 2 GB of HD space!!!!! And once you start install things (as every system file has to go to the C: it can get upwards of 4!!!! This is SLOPPY PROGRAMMING!!!!

K: No matter how you set it up, you STILL have to go in and manually clean up the :"temp" mess that is left after installing software.

L: A true resource dump can only be achieved thru either extra software that costs more money, or restarting the computer.

M: It is HIGHLY suseptible to spyware, adware, trojans, worms, and many other harmfull pieces of software that you dont even have to install on your computer to have them take over! (can we say outlook express)

N: The help files are far far far far from helpful. Type in a keyword and you get results that have NOTHING to do with what you typed.......or the dreaded questionere form of troubleshooting!!! Did you turn on your computer Y/N. Is your mouse Plugged in Y/N You could sit there for the rest of your life answering these useless questions to no avail!

O: Said useless "Help" files take up a LOT of space!!

P: The new versions are so cluttered with useless garbage on the screen that you are going to need a MAD machine to be able to handle all the wasted resources and still function to potential!

Q: Dr Watson can be an evil little bastard sometimes.


I think i've covered a few of my probs with microsoft.........we arent even getting into the unethical work practices that hold down the little developers......or the stealing of technology and passing it off as theirs........or the ultra concealing of source code (we dont advance unless we can improve what already exists!!!!) And of course, actually charging exhorbinant amounts of money for something that isnt really anything, it just lets your computer wake up! I would be more than happy with a free, no bells and whistles or added nifty features version of windows.......do they not make enough money with all the software they make, i dont think the really still need to charge hundreds of dollars for an operating system!!

and yes i hate bandwagoners too.....and the only thing i hate more.......is Apple!!!!

[dmonk]

I haven't had to reinstall w2k since I got my first workstation 2 yrs ago except for a couple of updates.

And I don't know what your running but It only takes my p3 866 512mb 2 mins to restart which isn't that big a deal. I run all of my graphics apps plus XSI and maya (student licenses before anyone starts a whole different topic)

Basically it gets the job done if you treat it right and don't install crap on your computer.

My lil' rant.:hmm:

[Array]

F: you cant uninstall explorer because its completely tied into the OS. you browse your pc and the net using one software. if you uninstall explorer..then you cant open up a window to browse through your drives/files. i dont see how thats bad. but about outlook. you can get rid of that one.

The problem with that is if explorer crashes while browsing the web, your whole system is pretty much screwed. I use mozilla exclusively for this reason alone.

P.S: Post #700 :beer:

[Gentle Fury]

my 20 year old comp is a 1ghz athlon with 512 meg ram and a 64 meg geforce 3 Ti500 vid card.....sure its not up to yesterday afternoon standards............but its less then a year old!!!!

and im running win2k pro

[Chris Thomas]

I think a lot of you guys should take a chill pill (or other such herbal remedy) or maybe go out in the sun a little more. Hey! its an operating system.... and I for one will be happy if its a little more snazzy and cheerfull, and if that doesn't impact on my 3D fiddlings, all the better.
Now a lot of people out there complained when win2K arrived and that was a hybrid of NT's robustness and WIN9x ease of use and fun styling. For many XP's extra ease of use and fun styling was just more of a bad thing. Some time down the road now and Win2k has become the safe haven for most 3D guys and gals. Who's to say that in another 3 years you'll all be grumbling about not moving on to longhorn and stick with lovely old and reliable XP..... could that be.......
It seems that no matter how hi tech most people are there's always a hard core of luditism rotting away in there. Me, I'm excited about longhorn, it wants 3D power, it needs 3D power and it'll probably push 3D develoment even faster than it ever has been. Thats great for GUI fun, and for games and for us in our 3D apps. Roll on longhorn :buttrock:

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by Array
The problem with that is if explorer crashes while browsing the web, your whole system is pretty much screwed. I use mozilla exclusively for this reason alone.

P.S: Post #700 :beer:

nope

press ALT+CTRL+delete.

go to file

new task

and type in "explorer".



it rarely crashes to begin with. but thats the solution to that problem

[playmesumch00ns]

The most worrying thing about this Longhorn beast, or Windows.NET, Windows.WANK, or whatever it will be called is this thing called "WinFS". Why does MS feel the need to make yet another file system?

Sure NTFS isn't great but it works. Could just be a new program that says, "I'll just make sure I approve of everything on your computer, if not I'll delete it without asking you", or is it just something that makes it easier for MS to strip your HD information any time you come within sniffing distance of microsoft.com?

UNIX-variants have had the same file system since the seventies. It works because it was designed right first time around, not having to be patched up every 5 years because Billy-boy realises people might actually want computers with more than 2GB drives, or 64MB of memory. It's ridiculous. I doubt they'll fix the 4GB file-size limit in this FS either. What a load of bollocks.

On the subject of windows help files, has anyone else tried finding anything meaningful on msdn? Or microsoft.com for that matter. Type in anything and it comes up with "Service Release/HotFix Q2368419 : Fix sodomising weakness in [insert any app name here]". For something that tries so hard to be helpful, to the point of filling up your HD with crap you don't need, MS software fails miserably. Look at Clippy: vying for recognition as the biggest f**king annoyance in the whole history of computing.

Don't get me wrong, I like using windows, certainly I like using it a lot more than I liked using IRIX, but you can't help but feel it would be a whole lot better if MS left all the bollocks out. I mean, instead of just making the "Professional" version a pathetic name-change attempt to weedle more cash out of 'professional-level users', why not strip it down to the bare bones and let us decide which pieces of bloated, badly-coded wank we actually want to install?

The sooner Linux becomes a viable option the better. Windows is becoming too fat. Gates should fix the problems that have been hanging around since NT before trying to add yet more 'features' [read BUGS] we just don't need.

Oh, I have to add that, in fairness, I love Visual Studio.NET. It only took them seven releases to get a version that was actually C++-compliant, but they got there in the end and I love it.

[Goon]

i have a philosophical problem with any company owning 90% of the market; the product so long as it is useable will never be usurped by another. Hence the company's only reason to upgrade is to get more money. In fact any upgrade they make must be flawed in and of itself, otherwise they will hurt themselves in the long run and eliminate the need to upgrade any further. An OS is a simple beast in what it is supposed to do, the only real upgrades that are neccessary are those to cope with increased hardware standards. Improvements can be made in useability and power, and these are much appreciated. But much of what Microsoft adds every new version is a bunch of bloated crap geared towards making look like a new and improved must have product. its not that they aren't fixing old flaws. 2k is better than 98, and in many respects xp than 2k. its that they are introducting new problems to keep the need for a new OS alive.
I have said my piece, you may now crucify me :)

[jsh3d]

Forget about windows, I want one of those OSes like you see in the movies :buttrock: ! Like something designed by Noel Rubin :D! Sure, it would do nothing, but it would look cool :D!

Er, wait, isn't that windows XP :p ? Just without the looking cool part :p !

No XP for me, I'm still using windows NT :buttrock: !

-Jsh3d

[Lunatique]

Will there ever be a succesor to Win2000k Pro?

I will ONLY upgrade if it's something worthy of carrying the torch of Win2000k Pro.

[Per-Anders]

sorry... the actual code was carried on and manipulated/turned into winxp pro from what i gather... now there's no going back (as far as m$ is concerned).

[cooldev]

Please keep in mind that this leaked Longhorn "alpha" is so early in the stages of development that drawing any conclusions on it is meaningless at this point. :shame:

While it's tempting to talk about the issues you guys bring up, you'll just have to wait and see what happens. There is certainly a risk that Windows is becoming too "fat" by trying to be all things to all people (and cater too heavily to newbies), but realize that people are very aware of those concerns. Microsoft has considerable resources, so it just might be possible to simultaneously address the core areas (reliability, performance, and security) while still improving the product in other ways to make it more useful to more people. Of course, that’s never an easy thing to achieve.

(Sorry to be so vague. I'm a developer at Microsoft working on Longhorn, but I don’t speak for them... I just pop up from time to time with my own opinion. Standard disclaimers apply.)

:cool:

[playmesumch00ns]

Well can you tell me what this WinFS thing is going to involve? By the sounds of it it's just going to clog up memory with more data that's not really necessary.

If you're actually going back to basics and designing a UNIX-style FS that would be very cool. Please tell me that's the case!

[UrbanFuturistic]

Just to add my bit (I can resist no longer).

I don't hate M$ or William H Gates III for any nancy anti-capitalist ideological reasons, I hate them because I got sick of handing over money fro software products that sucked donkey.

M$, in the non-monopoly days (before they had 90% market share, partly through deceipt and trickery) used to actually produce some pretty good software. I came in on PCs in the mid nineties with MS-DOS 6.2 and Windows 3.1 which gained market share through being genuinely good and better than the competition.

Even after that, Windows 95 isn't half as buggy as people make out and is still the best out of the lot that I've used.

The things that narked me were:
Visual C++ 4.2 and it's completely f***ed conio.h library (my entire A-Level class ended up using Borland 3.something).
Windows 98 and it's refusal to recognise my CD-ROM drives properly.
Windows Millenium... all of it.
Windows 2000 and the way I have to, re-install my Soundblaster Live! drivers every time I change a drive, the way it rearranges drive letters in a completely non-sensical manner every time I change a drive(1) and just the way it functions. It also failed to format the final 85Gb partition on my Primary Master... twice, at which point I went into GNU/Linux and formatted the partition, as VFAT, with no problems whatsoever. I'm currently playing my mp3s from it.

Essentially I'm sick of paying through the nose for software that doesn't do the bloody job it's supposed to.

Even though I use GNU/Linux as my primary OS I'll be the first to admit it has some way to go before people can just 'switch'; with the main printer support is almost exclusively for Epson printers, the soundcard and video support often months if not years behind (official support for the Radoen 8500 still isn't released, not sure about the Audigy soundcards) and support for tablets (even Wacoms) woefully inadequate the hardware support has some way to go, and even web plugins and viewers are released sometime behind (Acrobat 5 Viewer has only just been released).

However, with the amount of progress that has been made over the last few years it won't be long before GNU/Linux is a viable alternative. With the support of companies like HP, IBM and Sun Microsystems GNU/Linux progress has been phenomenal compared to previous years and continues to develop at a rapid pace.
As well as this, with projects like Crossover Office (you can install M$ Office on GNU/Linux with it) and WineX (you can play Windows games on GNU/Linux) as well as increasing hardware and software support, it won't be long before Red Hat et. al. are kicking Microsoft's arse.

This, I suspect, is one of the reasons for the palladium platform. It won't, as claimed, reduce spam or viruses, because it can't. What it will do, is make it much harder to use open source operation systems as a recompilation of the kernel (a common optimising practise amongst power users) would render the OS inoperable on Palladium hardware as it wouldn't match the license.

What I recommend now is to do a dual boot system. Try SuSE Linux (http://www.suse.com/us/private/products/suse_linux/i386/index.html), it comes with the latest of everything (and KDE is much nicer and interface than Win2K, and that's not just my opinion) and yes, you have to pay for a boxed version but it mre than makes up for it with the heft of manuals that guide the new user.

regards, Paul

(1) I had to unplug a second hard drive because it made my primary master D: and my secondary slave C:, and plonked the swap file on the secondary slave meaning that when I disconnected it to fix things it wouldn't boot because it couldn't find the dumbassedly placed swapfile. The point that I was going to be Norton Ghosting the main partitions on my primary drive to this secondary drive made the swapfile placement unviable.

[webjunkie]

WTF? can everyone say more ****ING support for linux. Especially with 3D applications - Lightwave moves to linux - goodbye windows and that awesome amazon paint program is for linux only too, therefore no more ps7+ needed.

[webjunkie]

My computer is 4 years old and i have these problems. Hense the point that m$ is too FAT wanting me to buy a brand spankin new comp every 18 months sure! money grows on trees. The software IS the problem.

[webjunkie]

and yes you do have to re- install windows every 4 months if you actually KNOW how to use a computer and are not a NEWBIE. even newbies computers screw up often.

[UrbanFuturistic]

Originally posted by webjunkie
WTF? can everyone say more ****ING support for linux. Especially with 3D applications - Lightwave moves to linux - goodbye windows and that awesome amazon paint program is for linux only too, therefore no more ps7+ needed. It's certainly starting to happen, but without the huge market penetration of Windows. it just doesn't take priority. Right now I'm anxiously awaiting the release of the Detonator 40 drivers for Linux as, according to a beta tester, they resolve the display issues in Realsoft3D with GeForce4 Ti4200 cards.

As it is, The GIMP and Photogenics make a reasonably competent combination (prompting Adobe to add certain features to Photoshop 7) but both are also available for Windows and with much worse tablet support, GNU/Linux isn't about to win any hearts or minds with those two.

Anyway, isn't Amazon Paint IRIX only?

regards, Paul

[gabe28]

and yes you do have to re- install windows every 4 months if you actually KNOW how to use a computer and are not a NEWBIE. even newbies computers screw up often.

What!?! I ran my last clean boot of Win98 SE for about 18 months with very little problems. I'm no newbie either, I've built my last three computers from scratch and I really push my computers hard with games, Lightwave, photoshop, premiere, etc. Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never had to re-install Windows every four months, and I use Win 98 which sucks compared to the stability of Win 2000 and XP.

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by webjunkie
and yes you do have to re- install windows every 4 months if you actually KNOW how to use a computer and are not a NEWBIE. even newbies computers screw up often.

id say only newbies screw up their windows install every 4 months :) an ordinary experienced user would know what not to do to screw up the install. put in the apps that you NEED. and get to work. forget installing new pretty icons..and the apps that drive that. your kazzaa software..etc. just install what you need to get work done. thats it. if you keep things clean chances are ...your machine will run much nicer.
also DEFRAG every 2 weeks!! itll speed things up a LOT.

[Lunatique]

Yeah, well, when you only have one computer, you gotta get in your relax/fun time somewhere. So, not installing anything outside of work is a bit...er...impossible. Hell, I'm a sucker for cool screensavers and cute little apps that aren't necessary, but makes your life on the PC a lot more fun.

When I have more computers around, I'll make sure they are "clean," but for now, I'll keep installing junk on my puter and just regularly clean out the registry and defrag a lot. :D

[Chris]

Ambients right, if you keep your workstation professional, you don't run into so many slowdowns & crashes over time.
One of my rendermachines has had the same install of Win2k on since I first bought it (when it was released), & its still running the same. My workstation also has never needed Win2k re-installed because of instability or slowdown - the only times I've reinstalled is when I get newer faster harddrives & want to move around My OS. I've found that for me Win2K never crashes, I've had applications crash, but I haven't seen a bluescreen since NT4 (as far as I can remember anyway :D )

I know what you mean though Lunatique - My comp at my day job is probably running at half the speed due to cool little icon thingies & desktop thingies etc - the way I see it though is that if I consistently don't produce much, then they cant expect much, right? ;)

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by Lunatique
Yeah, well, when you only have one computer, you gotta get in your relax/fun time somewhere. So, not installing anything outside of work is a bit...er...impossible. Hell, I'm a sucker for cool screensavers and cute little apps that aren't necessary, but makes your life on the PC a lot more fun.

When I have more computers around, I'll make sure they are "clean," but for now, I'll keep installing junk on my puter and just regularly clean out the registry and defrag a lot. :D

:) ya im a sucker for that too. but im just saying that those problems that people complain about are the result of their own mess.

[thedaemon]

I format all the time. Cause I install all kinds of crap. :bounce: :bounce:

[the_real_cabal]

please dont use this trash because its microsofts way to spy at your computer ( tcpa and palladium ) .... microsoft and security is like a devil and an angel - they dont match !

[webjunkie]

if only i could switch to a reasonable version of linux.

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by the_real_cabal
please dont use this trash because its microsofts way to spy at your computer ( tcpa and palladium ) .... microsoft and security is like a devil and an angel - they dont match !

you know what. people have been saying this for years now. i remember when i installed win2k, and was happy with it...a friend of my dads who actually knows a thing or 2 on computers was telling me paranoid stories on 2k. it doesnt seem like they really had any spying stuff in 2k at all. its not like they randomly pick a computer and read all the emails in there... then xp comes around and once again some people are paranoid... i mean hell. if your getting massive warez stuff then i guess i understand why people would be.

[tomb]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Bill’s best programmers or Bill himself designed this interface. Yep he's still trying to save his cash.

“I think our interface looks too nerdy. Don’t worry we can just borrow some inspiration from Apple again.” Big icons, Aqua-style buttons, translucent lines, Aqua-blue, drop shadows, rounded corners of windows, fades and transitions… Dead giveaway really. :thumbsdow :shame:

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by tomb
I wouldn’t be surprised if Bill’s best programmers or Bill himself designed this interface. Yep he's still trying to save his cash.

“I think our interface looks too nerdy. Don’t worry we can just borrow some inspiration from Apple again.” Big icons, Aqua-style buttons, translucent lines, Aqua-blue, drop shadows, rounded corners of windows, fades and transitions… Dead giveaway really. :thumbsdow :shame:

people have been making graphics like that forever on the web..all the flash stuff. apple definitely didnt invent graphics...
its like saying...hey guys look our app has poly modeling... IK...etc. must be a copy of maya. cuz they had it before us..:shame:

who gives a damn. im certainly enjoying the shadows on icons.

[thedaemon]

well, I enjoy formatting.

[dvornik]

XP's silver scheme is not too bad for graphics. Way better than all the 3d party skins. I still prefer a classic black and grey scheme with reduced-size bars. I don't use a computer to "experience" the OS. I want it back the f..k up and stay there in the background.

I think Linux would have a chance if somebody would actually pay attention to the regular stuff people need - nice antialiased fonts, eazy ways to install programs, adjust refresh rates and you know.... figure out all these kind of things without posting dumb questions on the messageboards. Linux community is happy to know they have the best OS and they do nothing to make it useful to normal people.

[Gentle Fury]

do you have stock interest in Microsoft or something????? it seems like you must be sitting there refreshing the window on this thread to be able to thwart any MS naysayers that may appear!! lol!!!

oh, and amazon is now available for Linux.......i cant find a price for it anywhere though!

[dvornik]

Gentle Fury, dude, first of all most of your alphabet is wrong. Including uninstalling outlook and IE. People use windows cause it lets them do their work and ignore the OS. Linux involves a learning curve from here to the next millenium and nothing runs on it (well, including trojans and all) and OS X runs only on crappy hardware.

It's not like windows is problem-free, but all the other stuff is even more problematic.

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by Gentle Fury
do you have stock interest in Microsoft or something????? it seems like you must be sitting there refreshing the window on this thread to be able to thwart any MS naysayers that may appear!! lol!!!

oh, and amazon is now available for Linux.......i cant find a price for it anywhere though!
no. but i keep outlook open sometimes. and im not sure if you get emails when people post but i do.

anyway im not too tied to windows like i sound from my post in this thread. ive used irix before/linux/ OS-9( ugh ). but when someone says that windows sucks because of their own ignorance then ill try to correct em. usually its not the os but the users themselves.
its like a kid comming back from school with a BAD report card ..which he then blames it on the teachers...that they suck...or are too hard... ..when his marks are the result of the student slacking off.

for now the only thing i dont like about windows is the ugly price. it would be nice if they had a stripped down version of winxp pro..so people wouldnt have to pay for 1/2 the stuff thats included ...that they dont need..
other than that its fine.

btw. i dont play the stock game.

[Gentle Fury]

Originally posted by dvornik
Gentle Fury, dude, first of all most of your alphabet is wrong. Including uninstalling outlook and IE. People use windows cause it lets them do their work and ignore the OS. Linux involves a learning curve from here to the next millenium and nothing runs on it (well, including trojans and all) and OS X runs only on crappy hardware.

It's not like windows is problem-free, but all the other stuff is even more problematic.


hmmm, first, show me where i am mostly wrong.....secondly, you didnt really read thoroughly did you???

G: In being a monopoly (as much as you want to defend ole bill it is!) they restrict what OS you get to choose......well should i use windows.......or mac.........well........i honestly cant stand either!!!!! Linux would be great if you could run real software on it and it didnt take 10 hours to install things.

did i not mention the linux learning curve and the fact that it would be good if it werent such a pain in the ass and more software worked on it????

anyway.....that whole list was meant to be taken lighthearted in response to someone saying that we werent vilified in our dislike of microshaft!

unfortunatly people decided to take it as completely seriously and felt the need to correct my opinions.........cant do it, since opinions are like assholes.......everyone has one and they all stink!

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by Gentle Fury
everyone has one and they all stink!

again. a problem of the user.: ) if you wash it thoroughly it doesnt stink as bad :p

[UrbanFuturistic]

Originally posted by dvornik
I think Linux would have a chance if somebody would actually pay attention to the regular stuff people need - nice antialiased fonts, eazy ways to install programs, adjust refresh rates and you know.... Anti-aliased fonts have been around for a while now, and the cofiguration and installation issues have been worked on quite heavily over the past two years. Installation is easier and faster than for windows now, detection and configuration of all supported hardware is so automatic you don't even notice it and there are several projects working on an InstallShield type interface for installation of programs. As well as this, just about every major distro now has an online update program and some software'll get all dependencies for software you're trying to install as well.

...oh, and Gentle Fury, where's Amazon Paint for GNU/Linux mentioned? I'd actually be quite interested if it's not too expensive.

regards, Paul

[PhilOsirus]

The first thing I did when I got XP was revert to a win98 graphic style. The smaller the icons, the better, same goes for tool bars and such.

[visualboo]

Installation is easier and faster than for windows now
Negative

[bentllama]

Originally posted by visualboo
Negative

boo hoo visualboo. boo hoo. :rolleyes: :D ;)

[Vic3k]

and that's why i never have bought any windows and never will and non of my friends, family, relatives, girlfriends, boyfriends, fan boys, and all ppl i know, have or will ever buy it!
if it cost like 0-50$ i could for a second consider doing so but even then any windows wouldn't deserve it.

mac? plz as much as i used it from time to time, i wouldn't want such a pleasure again.

linux? as much as i seen and heard of ppl complaining about good performance but very user unfriendliness, i wouldn't want such pleaser of using either. well maybe in a few years when it matures and becomes as user friendly as windows, except to not such friendliness as windows aiming to since XP.

and for years to come i stick to 2k

hmm honestly. i keep wondering, how can microsoft have so much money when me and any ppl i know have never bought it for home use? does it make money only from companies? ask ppl around who have ever bought a windows (not bundled with a new pc). chances that every 2nd person will say he/she never did.
just scarry to know how much more money microsoft could make if that every 2nd person would join the shopping spree

[Gentle Fury]

Originally posted by odubtaig
...oh, and Gentle Fury, where's Amazon Paint for GNU/Linux mentioned? I'd actually be quite interested if it's not too expensive.

regards, Paul


Amazon 3.5.4 for SGI and Linux Released
November 8, 2002
Amazon version 3.5.4 is now available. Features include increased scripting capabilities, upgrades for the TIFF and YUV file readers, and 4K texturing support for 3D Paint.


quoted from:
http://www.ifx.com/pages/news.html

[dvornik]

Originally posted by Vic3k
hmm honestly. i keep wondering, how can microsoft have so much money when me and any ppl i know have never bought it for home use?

Don't quite see your point there. You pay for it when it's "bundled" with a PC. And you're lucky if you're able to install it on another PC - quite often the manufacturers make it difficult for you. Of course I know people who have never bought windows or any other software.

And on the Linux issue - I think installation is very easy and it does recognise most hardware and gets online right away. But it still has a long way to go before it approaches the user-friendliness of windows and mac OS. I guess if I was a Unix administrator I would probably appreciate Linux user-friendliness more. Another big problem with Linux is that it can't seamlessly work with NTFS partitions.

[UrbanFuturistic]

Originally posted by dvornik
I guess if I was a Unix administrator I would probably appreciate Linux user-friendliness more. Another big problem with Linux is that it can't seamlessly work with NTFS partitions. All the issues you've raised have already been recognised and are being worked on. while NTFS access is currently read only, NTFS write access (along with such features as ACPI control and firewire support) is currently marked EXPERIMENTAL in kernel compilation which means that it's incomplete but being worked on... and yes, user-friendliness is one of the most worked on aspects, hence the Gnome and KDE projects.

I'll say this though, the internet access setup needs a lot of work.

It'll take a couple more years, but believe me when I tell you, your complaints are not being ignored.

regards, Paul

[dvornik]

I must say I'm looking forward to it, Paul. I haven't had any problems getting online, but I have a router, maybe that's why.

Serge.

[coupon]

funny thread, currently running a 25 machine win '98 lan on an me server (don't ask why) mainly used for internet and random program installation, it crashes, sure -surprisingly seldom considering. Windows is fine, the company's not without its flaws, but the plebs know where the start button is, and i'm sure one day there'll be a flavour for everyone whether we want it or not

[Zastrozzi]

Well I know I'll try it; probably stick with it too. Multi boot will be a must though. Learning llinux right now and i like it just cause its so much faster nice for when you doing 3d in the XSI linux version :-).
I can't say i mind the eye candy. although one thing that always is a big beef for me is not being able to point the special folders to differnet location (ie my pictures, my docs on a different drive)

[UrbanFuturistic]

To answer a question, it is easy to set up a TCP/IP connection via a router. It's when you try to set up a ppp (dial-up or ISDN) connection that it gets tricky... although this varies from distro to distro. Oddly enough, I found the solution to be getting a now discontinued piece of text interface software that does the job a whole lot better than either Red Hat's or Gnome's solutions (although I am only using Red Hat 7.2). There were also problems with using a backup connection when my main one failed as using multiple dialups required me (as I found out only after many months of searching) to find /etc/hosts and add the line 'multi on'... and don't get me started on multiple resolv.conf files, with different ones accessed by different software.

Asides from this, I'm still not sure why Win2k couldn't install when I formatted my drive to NTFS. The install program just hanged.

All that needs to be set for an ethernet connection is the IP address of the default gateway and the DNS server and it's pure TCP/IP all the way.Originally posted by Zastrozzi
I can't say i mind the eye candy. although one thing that always is a big beef for me is not being able to point the special folders to differnet location (ie my pictures, my docs on a different drive) Do you mean in GNU/Linux or Windows? I'm fairly sure it can be done in both (although it's easier with GNU/Linux).

regards, Paul

[Valkyrien]

only if you can nix the damn sidebar. I have enough stuff on my screens already...:eek:

and now i see you can nix it. Good enough

[wmendez]

Red Hat is trying to accomplish a more user friendly Linux with 8.0 and it's blueCurve interface the thing is that it's still unstable and KDE and Gnome users hate that they combined both interfaces.

I started using RH 7.3 2 months ago and now use it full time due to the fact the I can now play wmv and quicktime files with a crossover plugin http://www.codeweavers.com.

I still have the option to dual boot into Win2k but this palladium thing to me is just a cover to stop you from modifying your hardware(no Rivatune)software, & prevent copying or making MP3s.

[MonkeyNinja]

RedHat is doing a good job at making it more friendly but I still think they should adopt the Debian way of managing packages (perhaps make it more visual, I dont think newbies like having to do "apt-get install x-windows-system" to get a UI ;)

Oh and the windows thingy, well all I can say is that its just more of the same.. ive been in this buisness long enaugh to learn that megacorporations dont like revolutions, they like things to move at theyr pace and they apparently only give a damn what homeusers think theyr os should look like.

uhm am i rambling?...

[MrMunkily]

amen about the apt-get

I like gentoo, but it takes days to install the damn thing....

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