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View Full Version : Realtime MGS4 off PS3 Devkit Movie - Check this out!


PokeChop
12-16-2005, 04:03 AM
Hideo Kojima showing realtime MGS4 off PS3 Devkit

MGS4 (http://files.filefront.com/MGS4_PS3_Devkit_Demo_Eng_subs/;4440530;;/fileinfo.html)

heavyness
12-16-2005, 04:23 AM
talked about here...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=276973&page=12&pp=15

Layer01
12-16-2005, 05:20 AM
holy crap! that blows away just about everything i've seen the 360 do so far.
we'll have to wait and see what the later games will do. but that was incredible.
the detail in his face was amazing and its not all just normal mapping either by the looks of it too, seems very high poly.

Hazdaz
12-16-2005, 05:38 AM
Looks good... BUT "realtime" doesn't mean "in-game". And that most definitly didn't look "in-game" at all.

HUGE difference there. And with SONY's usual over-hyped marketing in full force, I withhold final judgement until the PS3 is sitting on store shelves.

Kion
12-16-2005, 05:44 AM
Looks good... BUT "realtime" doesn't mean "in-game". And that most definitly didn't look "in-game" at all.

HUGE difference there. And with SONY's usual over-hyped marketing in full force, I withhold final judgement until the PS3 is sitting on store shelves.


Its not that huge of a difference. I mean its not like during gameplay the character is going to turn into a stick figure. I'm getting tired of this sony hate. Like all MGS games it will look awesome.

Shaderhacker
12-16-2005, 05:50 AM
holy crap! that blows away just about everything i've seen the 360 do so far.
we'll have to wait and see what the later games will do. but that was incredible.
the detail in his face was amazing and its not all just normal mapping either by the looks of it too, seems very high poly.

The PS3's advantage is going to be processing all those tris in realtime. Most of those Japanese companies don't skimp on the poly detail. I think the shaders are all the same that can be done today. Examples are Gears of War, Quake 4, and Half-Life 2.

-M

Shaderhacker
12-16-2005, 05:51 AM
Looks good... BUT "realtime" doesn't mean "in-game". And that most definitly didn't look "in-game" at all.

HUGE difference there. And with SONY's usual over-hyped marketing in full force, I withhold final judgement until the PS3 is sitting on store shelves.

Bah.. PS3 is way ahead of it's time.. it's capable of putting those tris to the screen. Everything else can be done now on PCs.

-M

Hazdaz
12-16-2005, 02:30 PM
Its not that huge of a difference. I mean its not like during gameplay the character is going to turn into a stick figure. I'm getting tired of this sony hate. Like all MGS games it will look awesome.
:eek:
Are you kidding me??
HUGE, MASSIVE difference between running this simulation on hardware that is running nothing else and all it has to calculate is this one characters pre-recorded movements and a small section of background.

... and TOTALLY another thing to have to calculate enemy AI for a dozen other characters, have to handle I/O for the main character, have an entire level of background loaded in RAM and handle collision detection and such things in the background, while also playing background music and sound effects as well as handle all the graphic display.

HUGE difference between the two, and SONY have been showing off a little too much of the first kind of demoes and not enough of the second type of demo.
No one is doubting that the PS3 is goign to be quite the powerful system, but I am sick of the fanboy attitude coming from many people that see a screen shot or short video clip and they cream their pants. SONY has been pulling this marketing crap forever now and yet people are still falling for it (or did someone forget about the "supercomputer" claimed leveed by SONY about the PS2? and the "more powerful than a PS2" claim for the PSP?).

PhilOsirus
12-16-2005, 03:05 PM
Looks good... BUT "realtime" doesn't mean "in-game". And that most definitly didn't look "in-game" at all.

HUGE difference there. And with SONY's usual over-hyped marketing in full force, I withhold final judgement until the PS3 is sitting on store shelves.

Sony didn't overhype the PS2 more than MS did with the Xbox. Also, all footage shown back in the PS2 demo days of the TGS ended up being equalled or surpassed with recent games (such as Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerberus, which has in-game cinematics of higher quality than anything seen before on PS2, could almost pass for pre-rendered footage due to the high poly-count of the characters (http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=2296)).

Oh and as for the "HUGE difference" thing Hadaz, just look at past MGS games before passing judgement, there never has been a huge difference between in-game and real-time cinematics graphics, in fact the gap has been shrinking. So no, there won't be a huge difference, if any.

Pixarman
12-16-2005, 05:32 PM
Kojima himself said that everything that they are doing with MGS4 on the PS3 is easily doable on the 360 as well. He said the systems are pretty much equals in terms of what they can do. His only reasoning for developing MGS4 on the PS3 was because it is the newest and he said something along the lines of "he wants to be the first man on the moon" not hear about it from everyone else.

So that should really end all the talk about one system being better than the other. They are pretty much equals and it's really all in the devekopers hands at this point.

Pixarman

Kion
12-16-2005, 06:01 PM
SONY has been pulling this marketing crap forever now and yet people are still falling for it (or did someone forget about the "supercomputer" claimed leveed by SONY about the PS2? and the "more powerful than a PS2" claim for the PSP?).

Go compare the final fantasy dance sequence they showed as a tech demo, and then grab any real time cinematic from MGS or final fantasy. Then we will talk

Are you kidding me??
HUGE, MASSIVE difference between running this simulation on hardware that is running nothing else and all it has to calculate is this one characters pre-recorded movements and a small section of background.

... and TOTALLY another thing to have to calculate enemy AI for a dozen other characters, have to handle I/O for the main character, have an entire level of background loaded in RAM and handle collision detection and such things in the background, while also playing background music and sound effects as well as handle all the graphic display.


again all depends on what you see ingame for instance an ingame model might have 5 thousands tris compared to a 13 thousand tris cinematic model. Do you need a 13 thousand tris for ingame model....no not unless your going to do a close up. then LODing(level of detail) comes in thats a another bag of tricks. Your making it sound like the ingame graphics is going to take a huge dive and thats not the case. You won't notice a HUGE graphic drop off between ingame and realtime cinematics. A good game company trys to make it a seamless transition as possible.

Sonk
12-16-2005, 06:19 PM
Looks good... BUT "realtime" doesn't mean "in-game". And that most definitly didn't look "in-game" at all.

HUGE difference there. And with SONY's usual over-hyped marketing in full force, I withhold final judgement until the PS3 is sitting on store shelves.

Maybe you should actually look into the nature of Hideo Kojima and the past MGS game before making odd remakes. Besides this is a Kojima Production game, not a Sony trailer.

Since when does Sony own Kojima Production? either your ill inform or you do just hate Sony.

MGS2 was shown in E3, after it was release it looked the same, with all the AI and what not.

MGS3 was shown also, when it was release it looked the same, with all the AI and what not.

MGS4, was shown at TGS. Their MGS4 engine was developed on the PS3 Alpha kit(no RSX, slow PCI-express, slower Cell clock speed), it not the final kit, plus they obviously didnt tap the full pontential of the Alpha to beginning with, which leaves them with more than enough room on the final dev kit for AI and what not. They were probably only using only the PPE for the engine on the Alpha kit. they are left with 7 functioning SPE.

Kojima track record for delivering the good is spotless, until that changes, i have no reason to doubt MGS4 will not look as good as the TGS demo, or better.

edit, i might add, MGS4 is going to be a revolutionary game ;)

Wizdoc
12-16-2005, 06:22 PM
Well, the game isn't coming out for a while. I'm sure a lot of other games under development right now - be it for PS3 or 360 - match that in terms of technical quality.

The thing is, Kojima and his team are brilliant at putting use the resources they have. They show brilliant artistry which makes their work look better, even if they're not pushing the same amount of polygons or the latest graphical gimmick on the screen as their competitors. Sure that demo looks great, but that also has equally to do with great use of textures, lighting and cinematography as it does with pure calculating power or the latest GPU. Take MGS3 for instance, that thing looks absolutely great, and it's running on the PS2.

I'm sure MGS4 will deliver. Kojima has a great track record, I have no reason to believe he's trying to screw the audience by trying to make his game look better than it actually it. On the contrary, I think it'll actually look even better when it's done than it does now on the devkit.

laureato di arte
12-16-2005, 06:28 PM
I think it has been posted before .yea that demo always amazes me, not because of the power of the machine but because of the artistic potential of this man . I really love his games i own almost all of them, one of his sleeper hits is boktai on the gba, AMAZING GAME, google it. he is much shorter in person, www.1up.com has some very interesting articles on the his games.

PhilOsirus
12-16-2005, 07:19 PM
Kojima himself said that everything that they are doing with MGS4 on the PS3 is easily doable on the 360 as well. He said the systems are pretty much equals in terms of what they can do. His only reasoning for developing MGS4 on the PS3 was because it is the newest and he said something along the lines of "he wants to be the first man on the moon" not hear about it from everyone else.

So that should really end all the talk about one system being better than the other. They are pretty much equals and it's really all in the devekopers hands at this point.

Pixarman

Actually he said they could pull off the demo on 360 (no AI, etc), but also said the final PS3 version of the game will look even better than the TGS demo (it was still running on Alpha Cell-less dev kits).

Sonk
12-16-2005, 07:41 PM
Actually he said they could pull off the demo on 360 (no AI, etc), but also said the final PS3 version of the game will look even better than the TGS demo (it was still running on Alpha Cell-less dev kits).

I believe the Alpha kit have Cell in them, but the clock is not 3.2 GHz. Final PS3 dev kits should ship sometime this month.

CGmonkey
12-16-2005, 07:53 PM
Hideo Kojima knows his stuff. That's fudging final!

MarGera
12-16-2005, 08:21 PM
Actually he said they could pull off the demo on 360 (no AI, etc), but also said the final PS3 version of the game will look even better than the TGS demo (it was still running on Alpha Cell-less dev kits).

Ok this what the main man said himself in a very recent interview:

UP: With your debut of the Tokyo Game Show Metal Gear Solid 4 trailer, which has seen wide distribution in both Japanese magazines, online, and in the U.S. Official PlayStation Magazine recently, it really heralded the dawn of the next-generation. Everything else has been polished and nice, but this was so powerful, so compelling you even had to do a real-time demonstration at TGS to prove it was running on PS3 hardware. That said, it makes you wonder how much of a gap there is between the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 3. Do you think you could create MGS4, technically, on 360 if you wanted to?

HK: Yes, that's technically possible. I want to express, first of all, it's not that I don't like Xbox or 360. It's just that last year, our hands were really tied to MGS3, so the other Konami developers were able to get their hands on the 360 tools and hardware earlier. But we simply didn't have time to do that last year. So, meaning that we were behind the other developers in terms of 360 development. Kojima Productions has this philosophy that we want to be the first in everything regarding new technology. So after we finished MGS3, the option was to work on the PS3 to try all the new things for Metal Gear Solid 4. The only reason for this is I'm the kind of person who wants to be the first person on the moon, and don't want to be asking "what the moon was like?" from other people. So that's the real story behind selecting PS3.

1UP: It's interesting that you think you could do this on 360, though.

HK: Maybe some nuance or a small details here and there might be different, but I feel that hardware is no longer a matter. I'm just talking about PS3, 360 and PC. Revolution is totally different, but there are really no differences among the other three

PhilOsirus
12-16-2005, 09:09 PM
I never said he could not pull it off on the 360 tho, so close-enough, and he did say the final version would look better, so yeah he could probably pull it off, maybe.

Anyway just to put a sock in the whole "Sony overhyped the PS2" as if they had done so anymoreso than MS did with the Xbox, here is the famous FFVIII real-time demo that has been bashed as overhype, along with real-time footage of PS2 games:

http://www.star-reef.com/images/ps2demo.jpg

Kion
12-16-2005, 10:13 PM
Phil

thank you so much for posting that. I get tired of people regurgitating what they heard from others with out checking the facts "sony is all hype etc", not to say that sony doesn't deserve some bashing for recent events but you get the point. leave the fanboy hype at home

angel
12-16-2005, 11:09 PM
very nice. The real time Otacon on the screen was quite cool.

Hazdaz
12-17-2005, 12:05 AM
Phil

thank you so much for posting that. I get tired of people regurgitating what they heard from others with out checking the facts "sony is all hype etc", not to say that sony doesn't deserve some bashing for recent events but you get the point. leave the fanboy hype at home

Ya know, if I actually cared enough about this subject, I would do a search for that statement by SONY that the PS3 has "super-computer" power (which coincidentally was similiar to the statement that they said back when the PS2 came out). SONY's over-hyping of every little acomplishment that they do is legendary - but hey, if that hype makes you feel better about buying their system, then so be it.

Kion
12-17-2005, 12:22 AM
Ya know, if I actually cared enough about this subject, I would do a search for that statement by SONY that the PS3 has "super-computer" power (which coincidentally was similiar to the statement that they said back when the PS2 came out). SONY's over-hyping of every little acomplishment that they do is legendary - but hey, if that hype makes you feel better about buying their system, then so be it.


"Super cumputer" is the 2005 term for "Blast Processing" which sega used when the genisis was out utter bull crap i agree. But if sony says this is what the ps3 will be able to acheive(based off tech demos), looking at sonys track record with ps2 and how in some instances passed the mark of the first ps2 tech demo's as shown in the previous post then i say bring it on. Sony can call it "super dooper quadro power" for all i care as long as the graphics look like what they promise its fine by me.

cgtalkiest
12-17-2005, 01:30 AM
I never said he could not pull it off on the 360 tho, so close-enough, and he did say the final version would look better, so yeah he could probably pull it off, maybe.

Anyway just to put a sock in the whole "Sony overhyped the PS2" as if they had done so anymoreso than MS did with the Xbox, here is the famous FFVIII real-time demo that has been bashed as overhype, along with real-time footage of PS2 games:



you are such a fanboy. your screenshots are so bogus as well.. one minute your saying this wipes the floor with xbox, next minute, your agreeing their capable of the same thing, only cos your hero said it first.

i just had to comment on it. i was reading the thread and couldnt avoid your fanboism and total lack of any facts intelligent technical knowledge or anything worth listening to. This isnt the first time iv read your pro sony and con MS remarks, and im sure it wont be the last.

and for the record, xbox did not hype thier machine anywhere near as much as sony did... the only reason xbox at e3 was so lack lustre, is because they showed true demos running on devkits. no killzone 2 rubbish, and all the other fake simulations.... total garbage...

like kojima said, pc, ps3 and 360 will all look the same... all directx shaders, fast processors, hdri lighting, hdtv, normal mapping etc,,, etc.... same stuff. its down to the developers to make the difference....

JeroenDStout
12-17-2005, 01:43 AM
Heh, watching the video now and I can't stop giggling with every 'ooooh!' the hosts make. Such a weird thing to hear :)

Technique is as boring as every 'major graphical breakthrough' for me now.. not seeing anything new, even in terms of technique; just more of the same.. Though I haven't watched the whole video.

SheepFactory
12-17-2005, 02:54 AM
you are such a fanboy. your screenshots are so bogus as well..


Eh whats bogus about the screens? Last time i played MGS3 it looked like that , looked even better then the tech demo they showed actually.

Funny you call people fanboys when your posts are nothing more then blessing 360 and dissing everything else. :rolleyes:

DevilHacker
12-17-2005, 02:59 AM
Everyone Chill Out...

KolbyJukes
12-17-2005, 03:02 AM
like kojima said, pc, ps3 and 360 will all look the same... all directx shaders, fast processors, hdri lighting, hdtv, normal mapping etc,,, etc.... same stuff. its down to the developers to make the difference....

yup, amen to that.

rakmaya
12-17-2005, 03:10 AM
:eek:
Are you kidding me??
HUGE, MASSIVE difference between running this simulation on hardware that is running nothing else and all it has to calculate is this one characters pre-recorded movements and a small section of background.

... and TOTALLY another thing to have to calculate enemy AI for a dozen other characters, have to handle I/O for the main character, have an entire level of background loaded in RAM and handle collision detection and such things in the background, while also playing background music and sound effects as well as handle all the graphic display.

HUGE difference between the two, and SONY have been showing off a little too much of the first kind of demoes and not enough of the second type of demo.
No one is doubting that the PS3 is goign to be quite the powerful system, but I am sick of the fanboy attitude coming from many people that see a screen shot or short video clip and they cream their pants. SONY has been pulling this marketing crap forever now and yet people are still falling for it (or did someone forget about the "supercomputer" claimed leveed by SONY about the PS2? and the "more powerful than a PS2" claim for the PSP?).



I don't know of anyone who would disable their AI and other things just to create a demo. If you ever work in the studios you know how hard it becomes to test things with disabled features and then enable things. This is especially the case, when you are developing the engine and the game for the first time. Usually developers doesn't disable features do that due to many reasons (time and cost. They have other things to do). And that demo was running in game. Also, for your information Polycount and AI doesn't effect each other in such great extent. Number of Characters in the scene however does effect AI. But most of the time we free CPU from depending too much on polygon count. That is left for the gpu.

Also, If you really wanted to show how slow the next generation hardware is, I only 1 MB of memory. The are certain shader effects that you could run on a 2 polygon (triangles) model which could bring dows the frame rate to 15 FPS. You don't need a whole level for that.

However since it is in development stage, I doubt all of the things were working. If it did you wouldn't be seeing that demo.

cgtalkiest
12-17-2005, 03:50 AM
Eh whats bogus about the screens? Last time i played MGS3 it looked like that , looked even better then the tech demo they showed actually.

Funny you call people fanboys when your posts are nothing more then blessing 360 and dissing everything else. :rolleyes:

are we reading the same thread? i did no such thing. i am saying all platforms are all equal. and the bottom left is picture seems way too anti aliased and high res for my liking.... :p

PhilOsirus
12-17-2005, 05:17 AM
you are such a fanboy. your screenshots are so bogus as well..

Eh, want more real-time screenshots? Even those two Mulan characters are in-game models.

http://www.star-reef.com/images/ps2demo02.jpg

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