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nycL45
12-12-2005, 07:50 PM
The announcement was made not long ago at MW. No manual, yet.

ooo
12-12-2005, 08:16 PM
Any news on the Mac-version?

AdamT
12-12-2005, 08:47 PM
AFAIK the Mac version is still slated for 12/16.

Judging from posts on NL's board RC4 is no better than RC1-3. Maybe worse (material preview crash).

soccerrprp
12-12-2005, 08:57 PM
I've been visiting the maxwellrender forum for about a week and it's not looking too good. The new RC4 seems to be a disappointment for many as well.

I can't imagine placing such high hopes for a product and when it comes out- IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE TO BEING PRODUCTION READY! I feel for the many that have pre-ordered for the renderer. Maxwell should do much to compensate the many that pre-ordered earnestly. Reduced price? Partial rebate?

EESH.

Ernest Burden
12-12-2005, 09:17 PM
Maxwell should do much to compensate the many that pre-ordered earnestly. Reduced price? Partial rebate?

Stay in business long enough to finish the thing? Our expectations get lower and lower ever day with NextLimit.

Matariki
12-12-2005, 09:43 PM
Stay in business long enough to finish the thing? Our expectations get lower and lower ever day with NextLimit.

Staying in business to finish it would be real good. I had this thought of them crashing financially since I first read about the alpha deal on their site. Lets keep fingers crossed.

I revisit NL s web site once a month to have a look how far they got. It appears I haven't missed much between visits. Just as well that there is no "RC" for mac.

nycL45
12-12-2005, 11:28 PM
I didn't see much activity from Tom, Oskit, etc. over there today while, last week they were quite chatty. Eerily quiet.

Ernest Burden
12-12-2005, 11:37 PM
I haven't missed much between visits. Just as well that there is no "RC" for mac.

Don't let the terms fool you, there is no RC for the PC either.

tcobb
12-13-2005, 12:58 AM
Is this the first c4d plug-in update? Does it work at all?

AdamT
12-13-2005, 04:38 AM
I didn't see much activity from Tom, Oskit, etc. over there today while, last week they were quite chatty. Eerily quiet.
I guess they don't want to have to explain why they've had four releases which show virtually no improvement.

mmhnemo
12-13-2005, 01:08 PM
Is this the first c4d plug-in update? Does it work at all?

although i don't spend much time testing these RCs i installed RC4 and the updated cinema plugin(second since RC). A quick rendertest went successfully, even textures transferred to maxwell.
Besides having no sunlight i'd say the overall renderquality went down compared with the beta release.

Next test with RC5

soccerrprp
12-13-2005, 01:32 PM
Hey guys, I'm really trying to understand what Maxwell was thinking when it announced v1 to the world earlier this month?! Clearly they were aware that it was FAR from completed, correct? Does anyone think that FinalRender's app. during this time had a lot to do with Maxwell's clumsy introduction to its renderer?

AND...surely, they must have had time to make sure that the final product was solid and workable. I heard that they completely overhauled the interface (appearance) and that some feel that that was wasted time. Don't know.....This whole thing smacks with very POOR management, judgment and marketing guile.

I seriously wanted to consider Maxwell....:hmm:

flingster
12-13-2005, 01:58 PM
already up to RC4!!! and still a mess...looking forward to seeing something released that is stable.... :-(

jsls
12-13-2005, 02:24 PM
I cant get anything to work in R4, its a mess, a big huge mess! Crash here, crash there...this is a real work of art! I was hopeful, but now I think we need a miracle...sigh...

duderender
12-13-2005, 02:53 PM
I would sit and relax and just be patient. NL really goofed up bad with the order of progress they chose in the beginning with all these little plugins and a non-consistent integration into the core.

Rather now, they're concentrating on the core and have updated plugins to pass geometry to it. Needless to say you are better off tweaking materials in MW studio and not the plugins. Yes I know we all expected a full plugin, but perhaps we'll see this after core Studio is released??

Even though the RC's are buggy, IMHO, it appears that NL has reset the development baseline and are actually doing what they promised in the beginning with the preorder and allowing its users to use the betas which are coincidentally being called RC's now. Make no mistake, the RC's are betas.

Nixgehtmehr
12-13-2005, 04:55 PM
...Even though the RC's are buggy, IMHO, it appears that NL has reset the development baseline and are actually doing what they promised in the beginning with the preorder and allowing its users to use the betas which are coincidentally being called RC's now. Make no mistake, the RC's are betas.

No, the RC's are alphas. The quality of the render is absolute worse.

I'am an angry pre-order buyer. NL made so much promises and anouncments, of what Maxwell Render will have with Version 1.0 (History in making - Haha they are right on the negative side ) and they didn't fulfill nothing. That makes me angry, very angry. They took our money and told/tell us lies.

Thats the fact!

regards
Mike

jsls
12-13-2005, 05:01 PM
No, the RC's are alphas. The quality of the render is absolute worse.

Thats an understatment!

flingster
12-13-2005, 06:20 PM
quality and stability have been kicked to touch as far as i can tell...i've just put this thing in a dark cupboard...wake me up when they sort the essentials out first...forget the rest of the bollocks unless they fix this they are wasting everyones time including their own..

AdamT
12-13-2005, 07:24 PM
Ugh, now what?

Dear all, definitively the new render engine still has many basic problems. We are going to provide information this week about the actions we are taking to address this situation and restore normality as soon as possible.

Meanwhile we recommend to use the beta version, which has a proven workflow and render quality.

More news soon.

Thanks for your support
_________________
Next Limit Team

At least they're acknowledging that the thing is a mess.

Simon Wicker
12-13-2005, 07:51 PM
At least they're acknowledging that the thing is a mess.


this is a bit like watching a car crash in full on matrix-style slow motion with bullet time.

still i'm looking forwards to the mac version on the 16th and the final release on the 22nd.

hmmm.

cheers, simon w.

flingster
12-13-2005, 08:14 PM
what the hell is wrong with these guys...they need to fix this thing its turning into a bucket job...dunno about bullet time but they need a kick in the pants if you ask me...
i'm growing old watching this maxwell wither!!!
so frustrated with this atm hence my comment packing it up...and not re-installing again until i read something positive on their own forum because we are going backwards here. i just can't understand some of these releases...its like flouder-ville....
no doubt they are frustrated but i mean stability and quality have deteriorated since rc one to four...its absolutely no use to anyone atm...i'm less bothered about the money i spent on this...i want something useable i always bought for the longer run...just thoroughly hacked off and dissappointed in the whole endeavour atm. maybe you guys like adam and simon have seen all this sort of thing before or maybe your constitutions are a little tougher than mine but surely you guys have sat back for a moment and thought wtf!

JoelOtron
12-13-2005, 08:18 PM
this is a bit like watching a car crash in full on matrix-style slow motion with bullet time.

still i'm looking forwards to the mac version on the 16th and the final release on the 22nd.

hmmm.

cheers, simon w.


Somewhere in dark room in Madrid (edit) , theres an ushaven programmer in his underwear crouched in a dark corner, with a half empty bottle of vodka, crying.

AdamT
12-13-2005, 08:22 PM
Believe me Flingster, I've been around the bend with this thing, from enthusiastic to infuriated to simply resigned and apathetic. I guess I've mentally written off the $500 and figure that it'll be a bonus if they ever do come up with something useable. Actually, the beta can still produce kick-a*s renders if you give it enough time.

AdamT
12-13-2005, 08:23 PM
Somewhere in dark room in Germany, theres an ushaven programmer in his underwear crouched in a dark corner, with a half empty bottle of vodka, crying.
I think you mean Spain in this case. :)

JoelOtron
12-13-2005, 08:29 PM
I think you mean Spain in this case. :)

Fixed :)

Could be a guy like that in Germany though, right? ;)

soccerrprp
12-13-2005, 08:34 PM
AdamT,

Admire what appears to be a good deal of restraint on your part. NO ONE who has paid for the product should have to be content with "something" that will be working when it comes. The date of it's release has come and gone and should be in every paid customers hands being used to create production quality images at the detail and speed promised. Maxwell should not be, nor any customer that expected a final product, be content with working BETA.

You all paid for a working *innovative* working v.1! Plain and simple. Egad, I haven't even paid for this thing and I'm getting heated. In the end, I just feel for you guys! Maxwell needs to do more than just get a working version out and deployed. For all the ugly inconvenience, you people deserve a rebate for being wanked around...

ooo
12-13-2005, 08:35 PM
Somewhere in dark room in Madrid (edit) , theres an ushaven programmer in his underwear crouched in a dark corner, with a half empty bottle of vodka, crying.

Oh man, I was feeling so angry about all this. There is no hope there will be a usable product soon and they refuse to refund any money. But now after reading your post, I see this very sad picture before my eyes and I feel so sorry for them. I thought maybe we can send them a nice christmascard!

I feel so much better now :)

odo

MJV
12-13-2005, 08:40 PM
Oh my I know it's not supposed to be funny but it kind of is. :) I hope it all works out in the end, but next time you guys want to "save" money, may I suggest trying this (http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEXT-LIMIT-MAXWELL-RENDER_W0QQitemZ7204374953QQcategoryZ90723QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). Since I learned about this internet thing I have rarely ever paid full price, and rarely even more than half price, for any major software purchase. There's just no reason to that I can see.

jsls
12-13-2005, 08:53 PM
Thats a sneeky/smart way of trying to off-load unusable licences of M~R, feel sorry for the person bidding...

AdamT
12-13-2005, 09:18 PM
Thats a sneeky/smart way of trying to off-load unusable licences of M~R, feel sorry for the person bidding...
Indeed, especially as Maxwell licenses aren't transferrable.

flingster
12-13-2005, 09:25 PM
Oh my I know it's not supposed to be funny but it kind of is. :) I hope it all works out in the end, but next time you guys want to "save" money, may I suggest trying this (http://cgi.ebay.ie/NEXT-LIMIT-MAXWELL-RENDER_W0QQitemZ7204374953QQcategoryZ90723QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem). Since I learned about this internet thing I have rarely ever paid full price, and rarely even more than half price, for any major software purchase. There's just no reason to that I can see.

thats to damn expensive...who does he think he is rippin people off selling that thing...Oooh wait a minute didn't i pay more than that...from where i'm sitting still sounds expensive...my advice buy a plugin you wished you'd had...and get use out of it...and benefit the c4d developers fund for waifs and strays..
in the meantime back at ranch flingster...i'll be "using" something else that works...its called AR or FR
one look at the gallery is so compelling then reality nuts you on the forehead...boing boing..
what happened to instancing/displacement/large renders...lol...what happened to rendering bwahahahahaahah.

MJV
12-13-2005, 10:20 PM
Indeed, especially as Maxwell licenses aren't transferrable.

Are you sure? I don't think I've ever heard of a software license that isn't transferable. I would never buy one that's for sure.

AdamT
12-13-2005, 10:53 PM
Are you sure? I don't think I've ever heard of a software license that isn't transferable. I would never buy one that's for sure.
Ever hear of 3dsMax?

Yep, I'm sure.

mecha
12-13-2005, 11:00 PM
I totally forgot how much I paid for Maxwell....$500! I must of been nuts, I could and should of purchased FR or Modo instead!

Live and learn I guess. At least I can look forward to ZBrush 2.5 whenever that surfaces.

mecha

MJV
12-13-2005, 11:04 PM
Ever hear of 3dsMax?

Yep, I'm sure.

I'm sure you can arrange to sell a license legitimately you just have to get approval first. I don't think that a company can legally stop you from transferring ownership.

Shop on ebay and may even find that rare version of Max (http://cgi.ebay.com/3DS-MAX-8-3D-ANIMATION_W0QQitemZ7203859538QQcategoryZ188QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) that works on both Mac and Win!

MJV
12-13-2005, 11:15 PM
3DMax license transfer: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=204188&highlight=license+transfer

seco7
12-13-2005, 11:33 PM
I totally forgot how much I paid for Maxwell....$500! I must of been nuts, I could and should of purchased FR or Modo instead!

Live and learn I guess. At least I can look forward to ZBrush 2.5 whenever that surfaces.

mecha

Please don't remind me ... I'm having such a "I cannot believe I did that" moment. I could have hair and the new fluff DVD!

duderender
12-13-2005, 11:56 PM
Ever hear of 3dsMax?

Yep, I'm sure.

and modo, finalRender, XSI Foundation....

AdamT
12-14-2005, 12:16 AM
3DMax license transfer: http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=204188&highlight=license+transfer
True, it is possible. I guess you just have to grovel before Discreet or something like that.

nycL45
12-14-2005, 01:09 AM
You cannot even use that $_ _ _ purchase as a paperweight or doorstop. It cannot even collect dust or be sold at a white elephant sale. No stomping and grinding into the ground. Forget about a mini bonfire. All we have left are the fond memories.

moka.studio
12-14-2005, 07:21 AM
What I don't understand, is who is producing the "Images of the Day" seen on the Maxwell site, and how they are producing these.
Obviously not with the same render engine they have been distributing...

They are being also really dishonnest in the way they are still advertising their product on their website
.... Hurry up and place your pre-release -order, before the discount expires....

.....right....

ooo
12-14-2005, 08:44 AM
WTF...!?

I tried to respond in the MW forum and are not allowed to post (only users granted special access). Is this because I requested a refund? Now I'm really p$ssed!

odo :banghead:

nycL45
12-14-2005, 11:05 AM
WTF...!?

I tried to respond in the MW forum and are not allowed to post (only users granted special access). Is this because I requested a refund? Now I'm really p$ssed!

odo :banghead:

Did you enroll in the forum's VIP section? Only those on that list can respond. See: http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

ooo
12-14-2005, 11:18 AM
Thanks nycL45 I missed that part. On second thought I'm not going to post there anymore. I just demanded a refund for the second time and am waiting for a response. Anymore refunders here? I think they might release a stable final release sometime next year, but how about upgrades afterwards? I'm afraid after final release 1 the development will be very slow. I might be wrong, but I won't rely on a product that's not futureproof in my opinion.

odo

nycL45
12-14-2005, 01:02 PM
M~R is like the most wonderful mistress - great in every way, except, she is a phantom. She is seen and imagined in only the most romantic terms, but, she is not real. No, do not tell us the truth, that she does not exist, we are in love. The phantom is better than nothing.

If you do not believe it, look at the posts that still praise NL and their efforts and scold the naysayers. And, don't forget those jolly folks marching off with beta in hand and heart visibly pounding through their shirts. They believe. They have been moved and nothing will change their minds.

The day they most dread is when, face-to-face with reality, a stable, reliable app, like AR, fR2, Vray, or whomever, produces renderings equal to or better than their beloved M~R. For most it will be the end. For some, they will still be hanging on to their mistress.

We all will lose our investments. Believe it. Hmmm, I wonder if the Mac version is coming out this Friday...

AdamT
12-14-2005, 01:07 PM
What I don't understand, is who is producing the "Images of the Day" seen on the Maxwell site, and how they are producing these.
Obviously not with the same render engine they have been distributing...

They are being also really dishonnest in the way they are still advertising their product on their website
.... Hurry up and place your pre-release -order, before the discount expires....

.....right....
Most of the gallery images were produced using the beta build, and some with the alphas. Virtually none were produced with the so-called release candidate.

seco7
12-14-2005, 02:22 PM
What I don't understand, is who is producing the "Images of the Day" seen on the Maxwell site, and how they are producing these.
Obviously not with the same render engine they have been distributing...

They are being also really dishonnest in the way they are still advertising their product on their website
.... Hurry up and place your pre-release -order, before the discount expires....

.....right....

I still haven't seen a reliable answer to where the RC comparison renderings came from.

After all this time there are still more questions than answers... I cannot wait to see what they have to say in their "road map" this week! It should be good for a laugh though.

AdamT
12-14-2005, 02:39 PM
Tom over at NL's forum stated that the comparison images were done with the RC core but the old beta material system.

jsls
12-14-2005, 03:29 PM
Tom over at NL's forum stated that the comparison images were done with the RC core but the old beta material system.

Hmmmm, is that so? BTW Adam, saw your avatar over at M~R forums and couldnt stop laughing!!! Thats a good one!

chromecity
12-14-2005, 05:07 PM
I think they might release a stable final release sometime next year, but how about upgrades afterwards? I'm afraid after final release 1 the development will be very slow.Good thing the development hasn't been very slow prior to final release 1. :shrug:

Makes you wonder - can it really get any slower? In many ways, it's been going backwards as it is...

AdamT
12-14-2005, 05:18 PM
BTW Adam, saw your avatar over at M~R forums and couldnt stop laughing!!! Thats a good one!
Thanks. :)

Thalaxis
12-14-2005, 08:19 PM
still i'm looking forwards to the mac version on the 16th and the final release on the 22nd.


Don't get your hopes up, because even on the off-chance that they release the mac version that soon, it's not very likely that you'll be happy with what you get... they have a long way to and the 16th isn't exactly far off now.

jsls
12-14-2005, 08:28 PM
and the final release on the 22nd...Hahahaha!!!

Venkman
12-14-2005, 09:13 PM
BTW Adam, saw your avatar over at M~R forums and couldnt stop laughing!!! Thats a good one!

I also enjoyed it.

http://www.3danvil.com/Maxwell/flamable.gif

Thomas S Nelson
12-14-2005, 10:30 PM
regarding refunds: my two emails to maxwell@nextlimit.com

Hello,

I am beginning to believe that Next Limit Technologies has engaged in fraud. I want my money refunded. Now.

When I paid your organization on November 16th, 2005, you represented 'Maxwell Render' as a working product to be released within several days. This was not the case and appears to be a lie.
Nearly a month later, amidst all the assurances that in only a few days more all will be corrected, there is still no working software plug-in for Cinema 4D. The 'RC' releases are not a legitimate finished product - worse than the 'betas' - and at best are only a bad joke in your own forums as well as on other CGI sites. Many people are concerned that you will not stay in business long enough to deliver a product and others question your ability to deliver one.


You have not responded to my previous email from 12-05-05

Hello,

I want my money back because you have not lived up to the deal offered.

Currently there is no working C4D solution and the version posted this weekend is not what you said it would be.

Please correct this situation immediately or refund my money and cancel my order for the mythical Maxwell render software.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

regards,
Thomas Scott Nelson

What am I too think? I expect a response to this email. I notice that you have an office in Washington D.C., my next letter will go directly to my Congressional representative.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter,
Thomas Scott Nelson

seco7
12-14-2005, 10:39 PM
regarding refunds: my two emails to maxwell@nextlimit.com

Hello,

I am beginning to believe that Next Limit Technologies has engaged in fraud. I want my money refunded. Now.

When I paid your organization on November 16th, 2005, you represented 'Maxwell Render' as a working product to be released within several days. This was not the case and appears to be a lie.
Nearly a month later, amidst all the assurances that in only a few days more all will be corrected, there is still no working software plug-in for Cinema 4D. The 'RC' releases are not a legitimate finished product - worse than the 'betas' - and at best are only a bad joke in your own forums as well as on other CGI sites. Many people are concerned that you will not stay in business long enough to deliver a product and others question your ability to deliver one.


You have not responded to my previous email from 12-05-05

Hello,

I want my money back because you have not lived up to the deal offered.

Currently there is no working C4D solution and the version posted this weekend is not what you said it would be.

Please correct this situation immediately or refund my money and cancel my order for the mythical Maxwell render software.

Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.

regards,
Thomas Scott Nelson

What am I too think? I expect a response to this email. I notice that you have an office in Washington D.C., my next letter will go directly to my Congressional representative.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter,
Thomas Scott Nelson


Keep us posted. If I'm not mistaken, NL has publically said they will not offer refunds, but maybe as pressure increases they will.

jsls
12-14-2005, 10:44 PM
They are not going to give anyone a refund, and threatining them isnt going to help either. As far as no response, that is just unprofessional regardless the tone of your letter. Have you tried resolving this matter by talking to anyone at NextLimit on the phone?

rizon
12-14-2005, 10:49 PM
NL should now promiss a release date and when they fail to succeed that they will do a refund... even if it's in spring or whatever... it would put a lot of customers to rest.

seco7
12-14-2005, 10:53 PM
NL should now promiss a release date and when they fail to succeed that they will do a refund... even if it's in spring or whatever... it would put a lot of customers to rest.

They already have promised (and missed) release dates. What are they going to say, "we really mean it this time". :)

Newstream
12-14-2005, 11:16 PM
I also enjoyed it.

http://www.3danvil.com/Maxwell/flamable.gif

This is priceless. I laughed my a** off when I saw it. Nice one Adam :thumbsup:
/ Alex

rizon
12-15-2005, 12:59 AM
They already have promised (and missed) release dates. What are they going to say, "we really mean it this time". :)

mm my Bad English i guess... i know the've already promissed a few release dates... but never with a clausal that would commit them to pay a refund if they do not succeed. It'll be most unlikely NL would do this but it could be an interesting and fair demand from the current customers. And then we will finally get a realistic release date, not a "sell more pre-orders" marketing B*llsh*t.

MJV
12-15-2005, 01:44 AM
regarding refunds: my two emails to

I think you guys need to chill out some and I'm not sure that here is an appropriate battleground. I understand the fact that there is some frustration and the desire to voice it to a degree, but maybe you can spare the rest of us in the community the spectacle of a public lynching.

Per-Anders
12-15-2005, 02:09 AM
Yes after just checking through this thread expecting it to be like the past couple of threads on this (which were relatively peaceful) i have to agree with MV on this. Whilst we're not going to censor your guys, we would prefer if nothing was said that could be regreted later, and we do not want to involve CGTalk in any legal wranglings.

AdamT
12-15-2005, 03:36 AM
I wouldn't worry about it. It's tame compared to NL's own forum. :)

Ernest Burden
12-15-2005, 03:40 AM
Whilst we're not going to censor your guys, we would prefer if nothing was said that could be regreted later, and we do not want to involve CGTalk in any legal wranglings.

Do you have any specific objections to anything posted in this thread so far? If so, what? A dispute can be discussed in a fair manner. It is possible, in theory.

Here's why this stuff matters:

If even a few people go to their creditcard companies and claim non-delivery of goods or services, thereby generating chargebacks, then a company's card processor can suspend or terminate their account. For a company like NextLimit that could easily force them out of business. The consequence is usually based on a percentage of monthly activity. Even a chargeback rate of 1% can be enough. NL is a low-volume merchant, so how many really angry customers will it take to trigger a problem for us all?

So knowing the extent of customer dis-satistaction is helpful to all of us as an indicator of how at-risk our investment in Maxwell is. I think looking at this realisticly tells us that it is in our best interest to use the threat of various aggressive tactics to force NL to wise up and change their ways while they still can.

I do not want to force them out of business, but I also do not want to be jerked around much longer. My patience is 99% spent.

howzit
12-15-2005, 06:43 AM
thanks for the warning about people's posts not to get out of hand, but more importantly, thank you for not censoring this thread (moderators).
I feel this discussion has been nothing but very helpful to the COMMUNITY.
For some, an investment like this does not come cheap. It would not be cool for young people without much money to buy a product and be taken for a ride. We are a creative community here that help each other, encourage each other, and grow as artists.
There have been MANY MANY threads of people posting renders and having technical and constructive discussions about Maxwell Render. Further more, there has been thousands of more threads on all aspects of creating nice stuff.
It is a real world, and a few threads that are sour and not ALL candy and happy-happy rendering talk is only natural.
On the flip side, Maxwell must be VERY good, because it has people wanting to "GET IT NOW." By the way, it is actually not a finished product yet, just thought I would point that out.
Remember, this is a revolutionary render engine, it will not fall out of the sky. It has to be made, and not many people can do it. So, maybe lets wait a little, its just not yet possible to have it yet. Just like its not yet possible to have a 6GHz computer, but we all know its coming..... just not today.
Perhaps it was not the best for NL to take money from people so early, becuase it will get frustrating for anyone, to not get what they paid for in a timely manner.
hmmm, this is a bummer.
I too, am waiting for what I paid for....

Per-Anders
12-15-2005, 07:16 AM
The censorship issue only going to come up should this thread veer too far into legalities or into a flame zone, we will close the thread if the need arises, it is our job to keep this forum clean. In light of that I am asking all posters to think before you post, customer dissatisfaction is one thing, but legal threats are not so acceptable.

CGTalk is not a sounding off ground for people to start their wars.

Additionally this is the Cinema 4D area. Whilst this is relevant to some of our users Nextlimit do have their own forum on their website, and even here on CGTalk there are more appropriate forums (News and Rendering spring to mind). <Teachers Voice>If for any reason I find that the NextLimit discussion is only occuring in here because it's seen as a soft touch area where certain behaviour is more acceptable then I am afraid I will have to ban it as a topic within this particular area</Teachers Voice>. Bearing that in mind then I ask you to make sure that anything posted in this forum would be something you consider acceptable in any other area of CGtalk, and that your behaviour reflects the same levels of what is considered acceptable behaviour. This goes for topics, responses to others and dealings with Moderators and Forum leaders. Provided such simple rules are adhered to then there should be no problems with continuing with this topic.

Thankyou.

Hilt
12-15-2005, 09:41 AM
maxwellrender.com says the 1.0 will be released in Dec 2005. How true is this? I read somewhere that the release date is 16th, how true is this? Today is the last day to preorder with $495?
I dont know what to believe anymore. The gallery images in maxwellrender.com were rendered with beta version? Isnt that like showing brazil renders there, as beta and RC are considered having different render quality?

I've been thinking to buy maxwell, but i just cant figure it out whether it's worth it, as it seems there are good chances that I get 'hustled' (in form or other).
They chose to prevent customers-wannabes from posting to their forums, so I posted it here.

Ernest Burden
12-15-2005, 12:10 PM
maxwellrender.com says the 1.0 will be released in Dec 2005. How true is this? I read somewhere that the release date is 16th, how true is this? Today is the last day to preorder with $495?

There have been many 'last days'. Today? Does NL post a date and call it 'last chance'?

NL has said the OSX version of something, we don't know what, will be out on the 16th. But things have not been going in a logical way, so its anybody's guess as to what will be ready when and if it will even work.

So it would be highly risky to invest your money in Maxwell now. If you wait, and NL ends up producing a working product then they will charge about US$1000 however. That's going to be the cost of a sure thing, $495 is a bet and you may lose that.

AdamT
12-15-2005, 12:52 PM
First, I'd say there's almost zero chance they're going to release 1.0 this month. The "release candidates" they've trotted out are clearly still in the alpha stage.

Second, I've lost count of the number of times NL has said or implied that you better buy now or you'll miss the early-bird pricing. I remember the first time they did it--back in March--and that's when I bought in.

Third, the alpha software available back in March was much more production-ready than the recent "release candidates".

Fourth, in a poll I started at NL's forum, more than half of the responders (all NL customers) thought that 1.0 would not ship before Summer '06. Less than 5% thought they would make their 12/22/05 deadline.

Conclusion: hell no, I wouldn't buy in now.

nycL45
12-15-2005, 01:03 PM
Hold the phone. Today's post from Oskit:

"Dear friends,

I was just saying that the next RC will be last one
And this is good news. That's it!!
All the major issues have been fixed for this RC.

Oskit"

http://www.maxwellrender.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=99245#99245, post #5.

AdamT
12-15-2005, 01:11 PM
I'm skeptical, to say the least, but hope springs eternal....

Ernest Burden
12-15-2005, 01:42 PM
Today's post from Oskit:

"the next RC will be last one"

That could mean that they have seen the light about calling these low-function releases "RC's, so the next will be the last. Oh sure, maybe they've cracked the nut. Maybe. Maybe not.

Ernest Burden
12-15-2005, 01:57 PM
<Teachers Voice>If for any reason I find that the NextLimit discussion is only occuring in here because it's seen as a soft touch area where certain behaviour is more acceptable then I am afraid I will have to ban it as a topic within this particular area</Teachers Voice>.

The reason I prefer to post here in the C4D sub-section is that I feel more friendly with the people here than the CGtalk general population. I know the temperment and intelect (or lack of it) for many of the frequent posters here, and I feel people here know me. Over time we build a reputation with our responses and treatment of others, not to mention having a sense of people's work. CGtalk is so big that I stay out of the general topic areas for the most part.

Also, Maxwell has a varied track record with certain software and OSes so some MWR users feel better taken care of than others. It's nice to be talking apples-to-apples (irony warning!) with other CineMaxwell users.

If you think CGtalk needs to foster such a 'clean' forum, perhaps the board could enforce a no handles policy. People who do not have their name associated with their posts are more likely to behave badly. Anyone who Google's my name will find my posts here. (My 11 y.o. son Googled himself and found one of my posts here bragging about his amazing 3D CG skills). Require everyone to have a valid name and location if you want a more civil forum.

I do not see the posts in this thread as violating your stated norms of conduct. I discussed legal actions, for example, but was not threatening anyone, just talking possibilities and consequences. Users have expressed frustration about a bad situation, etc. That should all be 'above board'. The discussion on the Maxwell forum is bordering on a religeous war, some believers vs. some heretics. Its fairly ugly, a slow-motion trainwreck. I think we're doing much better here.

hundredthirtyseven
12-15-2005, 02:31 PM
The reason I prefer to post here in the C4D sub-section is that I feel more friendly with the people here than the CGtalk general population. I know the temperment and intelect (or lack of it) for many of the frequent posters here, and I feel people here know me.

I couldn't agree much more. Even the C4D forum is about 10 times bigger than it was 3 years ago, Cgtalk general discussions are too big for me.

Per-Anders
12-15-2005, 06:29 PM
The forum leaders cannot decide such a policy (though we would dearly like it to be the case). In general CGTalk does try to drive people to fill in their user information (from the User CP, and appears on the right under your nick <--- ) if you did visit the other forums for isntance general talk more often you might already know that, however it's impossible to enforce, the most we can do as a community is simply not give anonymous posters as much credence as people willing to stand up behind their own name.

We also want to encourage less isolationism, as that creates snobbery and cliqueism. It's not that we don't want people to buid up friendships with certain groups, it's simply more healthy for the overall community (and for the individuals too from experience) if people play a part in all areas rather than just a single one. You should use the areas that CGTalk gives you, it's a tremendous resource. If you're scared of the other areas then imo you're already being waaay too isolationistic, this isn't postforum (and we dont' want it to turn into that), people won't bite! you dont need some "reputation" to be taken seriously or to play a part, mostly people are very friendly in all areas, you can only gain. Like I said it's just better for the community as a whole.

CGTalk differs from other forums in that it has an overall community, not just Application specific forums, and that's the main thing that makes it as succesful and good as it is in my oppinion, because you get to rub shoulders with artists of all different levels, each with something to give.

Ernest Burden
12-15-2005, 06:53 PM
CGTalk differs from other forums in that it has an overall community, not just Application specific forums, and that's the main thing that makes it as succesful and good as it is in my oppinion, because you get to rub shoulders with artists of all different levels, each with something to give.

My 'home' forum is cgarchitect.com and just about everyone who uses it reads via 'today's posts' so almost no-one hangs out in one application sub-forum. But that community is much smaller. I have met most of the frequent posters personally. CGtalk is HUGE. That's great, and I'm not afraid of big, open spaces. But I do feel more comfortable here among friends and familiar detractors. Also, comments in active general-area threads are much harder to follow, since a response to your comment happens three pages later. Reading general stuff is quite valuable, actually. You learn about approaches common in other apps, not in yours, for example.

I participate in four forums and two force actual-name profiles (cgarchitect and cebas) and two (cgtalk and maxwellforum) do not. Its just a matter of style, I guess. Not a big deal.

Leonard
12-15-2005, 07:15 PM
I don't see why the issue of censorship came up as it seems irrelevant to this thread. :shrug:We only take action to moderate threads if they are in direct breach of policy or demise into flame wars.

Some of you obviously have a problem with Next Limit and want to be able to voice your opinions here. In principle, that's fine as long as it's conducted in a civil manner.


Regarding legal stuff and formal complaints/unhappy stuff -- I just want to note that you are posting here entirely at your own risk. If I was in Next Limit's position, and I saw that letter of complaint posted on CGTalk, I'd be pretty angry and it would negatively affect the way that I treat that customer.

There have also been cases where people's posts on CGTalk have been used against them in legal proceedings. We've been approached on numerous occasions to give out members' information if they have breached contract/NDA, etc. and we have to comply because of the political ramifications of it (many of these companies are our partners and advertisers). That's the risk that members face when they post here, and we generally recommend that people don't get into unhappy/sensitive affairs here on CGTalk. We don't censor it unless instructed to, but we also don't recommend posting it in the first place.



Re: where you hang out. Doesn't matter. We have many people who just hang out on literally one thread. Many trawl the whole forum. That's your choice. I'd recommend the gallery forums as a great place to see fantastic artwork and contribute positively to the community. :)

Peace.

Leo

CGTalk Moderation
12-15-2005, 07:15 PM
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