king kong project

[goldensparrow]

Does anybody know the best position to model the body in. Seeing as how gorillas can go on all 4s or on the hind legs. What position would give best results for animation.

Thanx

[dreamsgate]

I would think down on all fours would be the best, once that is modeled the way you way, set the SHAPE key and then adjust him to upright and set another shape key. That way you can blend easily from all fours to upright.

[sqeels]

how much time would i have to finish this ?

[goldensparrow]

Depends how much you wanna do. It would be great if you could model it all!
Anyway there isn't really a time constraint as it isn't for anything proffesional. But I have the next month of from college so I thought this would be a great project.

Thanks

[kattkieru]

I would think down on all fours would be the best, once that is modeled the way you way, set the SHAPE key and then adjust him to upright and set another shape key. That way you can blend easily from all fours to upright.

I'd say this is pretty much opposite what you should be thinking about.

Shape keys aren't for full-body animation except in specific circumstances. You're going to want to, instead, rig your model with a skeleton that can go between bipedal and quadrupedal movement (or possibly have two rigs for the two different kinds of movement; this would be okay if you kept the types separate during animations). The best way to model him would still probably be the standard T-Shape; this will keep the spine straight. If you model him on all fours the spine will start crooked and you're going to have some interesting distortion when he pulls his arms all the way back before pounding his chest.

He's basically a furry man with strange proportions. Go with standard human modeling techniques. The surfacing and movement will be what set him apart.

[goldensparrow]

thanx for the advice.

I have been doing some low - poly modeling to try to get a feel of the character.

I have modeled the gorilla in both up right and down positions, which do you people think will animate best.

[eek]

Ok,

Model it standing.

Arms at 45 degrees down and around 20 degrees forward, because thats at its most compressed and you want good deformation when the arms move back. The knees slightly bent, and a very slight lean foward with the torso.

The shoulder setup is gunna be the hardest as your axis will change from y to z when the character is standing or on all fours (i.e it'll flip at the shoulder when you twist it) So your'll need a switch between axis.

The face is prabably the coolest part, id model a med rez then take it to zbrush. Fur well i dont know. In kong it had 5.5million, dont think you could go that far.

eek

ps. get some very good reference, standing, face,side. Ive been thinking of doing the same.

[goldensparrow]

Thanks for the advice. Why dont you help me with it?

[eek]

Err,

I dont use blender and am pretty busy with work/other projects atm sadly. Just keep posting here, im always around for advise (as well as all the other pros here) are you gunna do it in blender completely? and what about fur?

eek

[Apollux]

and what about fur?

eek

Blender can do animal fur efforlessly. Doing human hair is a whole other matter, but animal fur is quite easy. You can use either Blender internal tools or use THE BEAST script.

I wouldn´t advice using the FIBER script, as it would increase too much your rendering times.

The guys at MakeHuman are working on something called MakeHair. It is more aimed toward human hair, but could be worth a visit.

[goldensparrow]

I may swap between Blender and max but I'm not as familiar with max and find that modelling with blender is so simple. I don't really know at the moment. I really want something to try out Blender's new animation system.

Thanks for the advice.

[Kaptain Kubrick]

Hey --

I'd be keen to refresh my blender skills and give it a go(been using maya too long). Are you going to copy the weta design or do you have your own vision? It would be awesome if you could gather a few images of kong for me + gorilla hands, feet, body, face the whole works -- then zip it up and email to matt@dangersquare.com - It's a busy time of year, so don't expect it before new years- but I can post you updates and what not. -- I hope that works for you.

matt

[goldensparrow]

Hey Kaptain thanks I shall try and get you those images.

For now I have taken to modelling a low poly kong with arms 45 dgrees and leaning forward.
Do you think this will animate better.
I've also been looking at alot of Bay Raitt stuff and how he talks about sculture and art. I have also tried to clean up my edge loop techniques.

[eek]

your'll need good edge loops for good deformation. Try to keep the poles down to 4, ie the edges to a point. I have lots of problems with this.

eek

[goldensparrow]

Sorry Eek but What do you mean by 'poles down to 4'

[Kaptain Kubrick]

He means that a vertex point should have 4 edges coming into it - not 5 - There are a few rules for modeling to keep a clean mesh- that is one of them. This is so that no unwanted artifacts show up when you smooth it (sub-surf) and also for deformation.

hope you get that.

[goldensparrow]

oh right yeah, I already knew that fact. Sorry I had just never heard it as poles to 4. Thanks for the advice

[goldensparrow]

heres a quick update.

The legs need some work. I can't quite figure out whats wrong with them. Anyone got any ideas.

By the way this was modelled without any reference really, so it may not be quite right.

[Kaptain Kubrick]

I made a start on kong-- just a head at the moment. The mesh needs a bit of a fix up about the chin ad a few other areas. Any advice welcome! - forehead seems off as well.


I managed to find a naked gorilla upright illustration in a nature book at home - plus a few other images here and there. -- If anyone has any close ups of the hands or feet they could post that would be much appreciated.

Someone mentioned using Zbrush on him earlier - can anyone do that in blender? How does it render out?

I messaged cog - to see if I was able to use his kong fur, it looks really awesome - so fingers crossed.

goldensparrow- This would be an awesome little project to test out a few of blenders new features- to see how far it can be pushed-- I'm not thinking it is going to rival weta or anything! But testing out blend shapes and fur + advanced armatures etc. What were you thinking of doing with him?

[Kaptain Kubrick]

Here is cogs (www.cogfilms.com) kong fur! I think it's pretty geeh wow impressive -

[goldensparrow]

Kaptain kubrick you are awesome. What I would like to do is try and test out blenders new features and set it up with complicated rigs and such. I plan to animate it(dunno how, or in what yet.) because I want to test blenders new animation system and such.

About the model. It's awesome work my friend and cogs hair loooks great. I think that the forehead jutts out abit to far. and I think the nose has abit to much nostril mass over all. Great work though.

Thanx.

[goldensparrow]

I have tryed to find you the hands and feet images:

http://www.skullsunlimited.com/graphics/gorillmrft.jpg
http://www.skullsunlimited.com/graphics/gorillflhd.jpg
http://geology.cwru.edu/~huwig/catalog/slides/758.A.13.jpg
http://www.people.virginia.edu/~dp5m/phys_304/figures/2feet.gif
http://www.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/615729/2/istockphoto_615729_gorilla_foot.jpg
http://meandmephoto.com/NewZoo/NuZuJpeg/GFeet.jpg


I don't know whether these will help you but....

[Womball]

I don't see why Zbrush couldn't be used in blender. You create the cage mesh and unwrap it in blender. You then delete the everything but the main face mesh and TURN OFF SUB-D. You than export it via the obj format. Open zbrush, load the mesh as a tool and start adding detail. You than export the detailed zbrush mesh as a normal or displacement map, which can than be used in blender. The final step I'm not sure how to do, since I haven't gotten that far in zbrush yet. I plan on learning it extensively next semester when I learn how to model the forearm/hand, head and leg/feet muscles.

[Kaptain Kubrick]

I'm kinda answering my own question here-

I don't know if this is right- two reasons why blender can't do it-

a) blender can't handle 24bit/32bit images or whatever it is-

b) blender can't do subpixel rendering.


sure you can load the displacement files and what not-- but I don't think you can get a good render-

someone please prove me wrong -

I think they are on the todo list though-

matt

[Aids]

Hey if you want me to i could make some king kong fur im getting pretty good at the new particle system

[cogfilms]

Here is cogs (www.cogfilms.com (http://www.cogfilms.com)) kong fur! I think it's pretty geeh wow impressive -

Been following this thread with interest. If you want to use my Kong Fur example be my guest. You will find it here [EDIT: now with correct link]:-

http://www.cogfilms.com/hairy-cube-04.blend

Merry Christmas everyone.

Cog

[goldensparrow]

Merry Christmas to you all too.

Mr COG. Thankyou for the use of your fur but for some reason I cannot download the file. It takes me to a microsoft site when clicked and Right click - Save as does not work either.


By the way - loving your work man.

[Aids]

im also working on a fur for you guys, but i think cogs will be better, i will post it when im done.

[goldensparrow]

thanks aids. It's nice to see that people are so willing to push the boundries and also help each other out.
By the way does anyone know how to rig well using the new armature system.

[Hunkadoodledoo]

I think Cog's link should be this:

http://www.cogfilms.com/hairy-cube-04.blend

[Aids]

here is my effort
http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4489/kingkong4pw.jpg

[TroutMaskReplica]

You than export the detailed zbrush mesh as a normal or displacement map, which can than be used in blender.

this doesn't actually work in blender. the normal maps as implemented can't do this yet. :(

the only way to work with zbrush models in blender is to use the hi res geometry, which, unfortunately, is not conducive to animation.

[cogfilms]

Merry Christmas to you all too.

Mr COG. Thankyou for the use of your fur but for some reason I cannot download the file. It takes me to a microsoft site when clicked and Right click - Save as does not work either.


By the way - loving your work man.

Hi goldensparrow,

I've corrected the link it should work now.

Blender Note:-

Fingers tend to turn to KONG hands after several hours of modelling!

Cog

[goldensparrow]

hi people, I've been thinking about what to animate to king kong, I have decided to animate a fight between the 25 foot ape and a huge tiger!!!

Just Started modelling, what do you thinks!


(This may or may not be what is actually animated, the main reason for posting this is because I couldn't be bothered to start a new thread for it. SO NOW PEOPLE BACK TO THE JOB IN HAND, A KICK ASS BLENDER KONG!!!, WHOO GO KONG!) Seriously this is going to get very interesting.

[goldensparrow]

People of the forums, I have been desperate to animate 'a' kong so I set up a quick rig type thing but I stink at rigging, it frustrates me so much. I've already broken my £30 quid wireless mouse by slamming to the table in frustration. I cannot and I mean cannot setup the IK, when you have emties as targets on the chains I can't seem to key frame the pose right and stuff. Please could someone quickly set it up for me, or offer some advice. Here is the .blend, please god help me before I do something I regret like cursing the name of blender! FOREVER!!

(NO....sorry, I love blender really, please don't hurt me.)

[goldensparrow]

Hello again right I think I have a kinda working rig. Its not great but it will do. I have been working on a walk for this guy. This was done without any referance, its just an approximation of how I guess a gorilla would walk, it is still alittle un polished.

Tell me what you think.
Sorry that its a zip file, I have no where to upload a video.

[grstovell]

VERY INTERESTING Project...

I'm a C4D animator and just downloaded (discovered) Blender.It certainly peaked my curiosity. So I'm parking myself on this thread to see it finished.

About the animation... looks like a really good start. I think it's missing some sense of weight, The left hand seems floaty (slippery hands?) It may be due to the rig.. not sure. Also it looks like the left shoulder really takes off when he starts walking.

I really like where this is going.

<subscribed>

-g

[Hunkadoodledoo]

Well, I finally saw King Kong tonight. Oh, by the way, great start on the animation! I know it is a really small, low detail test, but it is better than I can do already! I know that when Disney makes animal movies, they spend time sketching how the animal moves to get acquainted with how its muscles work, but since we don't have a gorilla to pass around and study, I found this site that has a pretty large video gallery. You will probably need to up the detail if you want to see anything clearly, but if you have a fast enough connection, you shouldn't have any problems! Check it out:

http://www.rozhlas.cz/unmasking/videogallery/?po=2&format=wmv&kvalita=f&date=20051202&kod=&n=

Hope this helps!

[goldensparrow]

hello. I was just wondering if any one would be willing to host a video for me for a while, I can't get it to upload from my pc. Can anyone help. Its a sorenson 3 quicktime file of 2.67mb.

Thanks.

[FreakyDude]

hahahahaha, o man, not to insult you, but the first thing I thought when i saw your tiger was: WTF?! jarjar binks? what's that ****er doin here? Then I looked again, read the post and thought, OOoh o_O it's a tiger (relief)

[Kaptain Kubrick]

- Back from holiday - so I have a little time to play on blender. This is just a little progress from last time- working on the legs/feet and chest. Neither are finished yet, require a bit of refining. I think that I will also add more detail to the head, for wrinkles over his nose and forehead, plus a few other places. It might be a little luggish on slow computers- but I think that it would look a lot better- better facial expressions etc. -- I'll post a comparision of the two soon to get some feedback.

I have had play around with 2.4 and I really love this little program. The new rigging (and some old) features are very cool to play with and experiment. I worked up a leg rig which should work fine - nothing new - but I have never done it in blender before.

click and drag the bottom bone to move the foot.- - rotate the little seperate bone at the back to roll the foot. - it's not lined up thats why it is a bit funny- but its getting there. Done with Action constraints- not sure if it is the same as everyone elses- but I worked off tutes from Bassam, and I think the name was Douvo (sorry) and Gabio from .org and elysiun. so thanks. - click pose> Show/Hide Bones > Show Hidden to see the rest of the bones-

shortcut- click leg and press ctrl h

anyone have any other ways of doing that? would you find it easy to work with?

Any way --
Updates soon

[eek]

I advise you guys to key "the making of king kong" by jenny wake. Theres some scan data in there. rigs, face poses everything to get you started. That leg looks way to reptillian to me and very boney/ muscley, remember kong is really a 25 foot sliver back.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1416502572/203-6918400-8107968

The legs are a lot less musclely more like a babys leg ,the arm too sag, and kongs got a bit of a belly on him!


eek

[Vashner]

I read somewhere that King Kong is not copyrighted? As far as intellectual property?

Something about how old the book was it's now in the public domain??

Is that true?

[Kaptain Kubrick]

Here is probably what I'll stick with regarding the wrinkles- feedback welcome-- yeah the nose is off -- still a little bung- but I think I'll keep it.

Copy Right- well I never thought about it - but apparently you are right - anyone can create a character called king kong - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:King_Kong_(2005_film)
it says to go to google > king kong nintendo

[goldensparrow]

This is amazing Kaptain. Good work, love the detail around the eyes.

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