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View Full Version : Vandal town - realistic gangstered up shop


mayanoob
12-08-2005, 10:36 PM
Hi I came up with an idea to create a road\corner shop scene earlier today so I started off with the boards that are going to cover the shot at windows. Awkard place to start but I have dedicated a tiny percentage of my 1024 Texture sheet to it but anyway I'll post some renders of the boards, i'm going to cover the place in graf. These are just really a taster of whats to come.

http://img357.imageshack.us/img357/2113/boards0zi.jpg


The 1px brush came in very handy


Heres a glance of the texture sheet just to show you how much I've used up.

http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/2344/environmenttexture4lv.jpg
EDIT: Sorry you can't see how big the texture sheet is but anyway

I'll post some of the shop when I've modelled abit more.

Stayed tuned as I plan to model the building\shop\house thing V.soon

I'm actually just learning maya, im 14 so if you have anything to say about my work i'd be delighted to hear from you

ChimpanG
12-09-2005, 06:02 PM
ok i thought I'd give you some harsh crits to get you going since you dont really have enough for it to look fab yet (it will look fab, i know it)
is it meant to be wood? because it looks like the board is made of well... crumpled brown paper.
and as for graffiti, you dont get that type of bubble colour sprayed graffiti on boards, its usually tags. tags are penned out names of graffiti artists usually in black or a bright colour.
here's my (not so good) tag as am example.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/ghlpics/shetlandG.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v110/ghlpics/tag.jpg
in this pic I have quickly photoshopped my tag onto a boarded window
(i got the original pic from google) and its slightly faded and smudged.
its not the best example as i did it in about a minute or so but you get what i mean.
by the way the graffiti on that window is done using stencilling just for refrence for ya.
its where you spray over a stencil to get the shape you want.


here are some more examples of tags (from google)
http://www.glafolit.de/Bilder/graffiti-tag.JPG
http://www.graffiti.org/boston/kairos01.jpg

I'd really reccomend modelling the entire scene and all props before even starting your texturing because you'll find as you model you want to change and resize or shape things but you cant because your UVW's will distort.

mayanoob
12-09-2005, 09:42 PM
Okay thank you fella,

New Graf which is still WIP, more needs to be layered over it


http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/4646/environmenttexture20co.jpg

Crap render of the boards on the walls

http://img307.imageshack.us/img307/3395/gangstar0zh.jpg

I have tried to make the brown paper more woody by putting grains into it. :)

I will post some better renders when I have the time to

Thanks

mayanoob
12-09-2005, 09:58 PM
Heres a better render, and is stil very much WIP

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5245/bere3qs.jpg


Noticed any improvement ?

Ta

mayanoob
12-11-2005, 12:18 AM
Heres a sketch of the idea, just to give you a broader picture

:)

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9952/environment1dk.jpg


Might put something in road but anyway ill get this environment modelled first

:)

ChimpanG
12-11-2005, 05:57 PM
I am really interested in this project because i can see you increasing your skill 10 fold through it.
i'd suggest when doing a concept to keep it very easy to see and straight forward, try using perspective lines to get it looking right because it took me a long while to work out what the painting was of.

mayanoob
12-17-2005, 10:56 PM
Just a little update started working on the texture sheet again :D so far my scene is under 200 poly's
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/141/env3rp.jpg

The wooden painted part of the door makes it look like clouds I needto make that have a more painted look

Cheers

Konstruct
12-17-2005, 11:35 PM
Alright- I really donít want to come off as a jerk but you REALLY need to think about how youíre going about this.

Thereís really FAR too much to critique- and thereís really nowhere to start because your foundation as of now is pretty weak. This forum is all about learning and showing your work and getting critiques.

The main thing Iím going to say is your concept lack as much in detail as it does in overall form. The good news is there are PLENTY of reference photos of what youíre trying to make out there. Google is an amazing thing. It would probably work out best if you just took some time, and looked up a bunch of photos of condemned, rotted out gas stations, etc. Save them in a folder on a desktop if you feel the need to go back and look at them. If you still feel like you need a concept at this stage, always remember, the human eye has priorities:
1. Silhouette
2. Inner shapes- (this could also be color)
3. Small details- such as small tags, door handles, etc.

Then as far as your workflow, the way youíre going about it is all wrong. Not to say there is a definitive right and wrong to game art or art in general, I just think your going to paint yourself into a corner down the road on this project.

The basic workflow for game art as is follows:
1. Model it.
2. UV it
3. Texture it

sometimes I find myself adding small stuff to the model after Iíve textured it, squeezing the new geometry somewhere on the UV`s, but youíll never be able to fit large pieces of geometry after the texturing stage. (granted your UV`s are packed tight and take full advantage of the UV space)

So my over all advice to you since your new to this, is to take some time, get to know your modeling program, and make a kick ass cool model. Then, uv it. (boring and time consuming but you have to do it) Then take some time texturing it. I really advise against texturing as you model, but if thatís how you want to do it, go for it! Sometimes you have to learn from your own experiences.

Anyways, good luck with this-

HellBoy
12-17-2005, 11:47 PM
I totally agree with Konstruct

do little research. this site is awesome
http://www.mayang.com/textures/index.htm

good luck m8, you've got plenty of time

mayanoob
12-18-2005, 11:38 AM
Cheers, I'm probably going to spend more time modelling before texturing lol.

Nice site Hellboy i shall be using it for reference

Anyone got any good UV tuts for maya, although I can do it (abit) I not sure what unwrapping is etc.or could someone tell me how they do it.

Ill 'konstruct' a better concept when I have time :scream:

Thanks Konstruct people like you will make me alot better games artist :)

Sanity_BA
12-18-2005, 12:36 PM
If you need any reference images of graffiti then go there:
http://graphotism.com/


example by my brother :D:[/url]
[url="http://imageshack.us/"]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/2161/dosa9qm.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dosa9qm.jpg)

mayanoob
12-18-2005, 03:53 PM
So i decided to get on with the modelling not worrying about textures

http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/111/shop4nz.jpg

and another angle

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/184/shop27ap.jpg


the transparent box. will be a steel caged bar using alpha channels.


Thanks for the crits

mayanoob
12-18-2005, 07:44 PM
Heres an update on scene, it's just short of 950 tris.

I have increased the size of my scene and I am considering modelling an entire town.

Anyway I added a park


http://img330.imageshack.us/img330/4558/scene1tq.jpg

keep them crits coming i need them :banghead:;)

Primo_itch
12-18-2005, 08:04 PM
Getting better.

Some criticism :

1. Steps on the stair are really large... A standard step has 15cm high and 20-25cm width... Your's seens to have 30cm high or more :p
2. Roof on the main building seens weird... It looks torned, i guess...
3. Add more detail. Right now all you've got is a "boxy" building with almost no detail. And also never forget to delet unseen faces.


Your work is getting better, keep on it and keep posting updates.

ChimpanG
12-18-2005, 08:05 PM
almost 1000 tris seems a bit high for that... can we see a wire?
also, i advise against you doing a whole town before you can do even a single building perfectly.

mayanoob
12-18-2005, 08:25 PM
Cheers Sanity I will check it out and try to create some similar tags for my scene.

Yer Primo everythng stil looks boxy i might do the roof again

G heres the wire

http://img368.imageshack.us/img368/3601/wire5ny.jpg



Thanks guys ill try get some more done tonight

Konstruct
12-18-2005, 08:28 PM
basic maya uving tut (http://www.highend3d.com/maya/tutorials/texturing/248.html)


ah nice, see now this is a bit easier to critique.-

first things first- functionality and scale: the very first thing I notice when looking at this is the stairs are WAY too big for the same type of person that would use the door.

For scale modeling I would recommend merging in a model of a person, or if you donít have that, a picture of a person on a plane would work just fine. Use that when judging how far up a door frame should go- how big steps are, the size of ladders, or anything else that shows the size of the people in your world.

now- as far as functionality goes:

I donít know how far along you are in your modeling so forgive me if Iím jumping ahead to stuff you already were going to do.

I would try getting down the basic shape of your main building before going on to smaller details like the fenced in stairs that go to the roof. Right now, the roof looks like a series of awkwardly placed polygons. I understand that youíre going for a collapsed look, but for one side of the roof to be caving in like that, you have to think about the construction of this thing. The first question is, "why is it caving in" did something fall on it? or did it just give way to time?" from there you can ask things like: where are wall roof support beams placed, are they wood or metal? Are they bending or snapping, which finally leads to how is this affecting your wall structure? Iím not saying that you have to flat out model all of the support structure, but just think about how its all caving in on itself, and how its effecting the shape of everything- (though it could be cool to have holes in the collapsed part, with rubble, and bent/broken beams sticking out. this should give you a much more believable collapsed look.

At this point, its easy to look at building structure, rather than placed polygons. So, I attached an image of your buildings profile, and how the roof looks it looks like sharp polygons. Try adding a ledge like in the second part of the attachment.

I donít know of too many doors that stick out of the side of buildings, and the same goes for windows. Usually these are going into the side of buildings, rather than sticking out. - I suppose in this case it works because their supposed to be boarded up, but for now try making a recessed window, then make some secondary geometry boards and put them over your windows.

But I dunno thatís all I have for now. keep in mind Iím no expert, and Iím still playing around a lot in this genre- just passing on some stuff that Iíve learned on my own.

mayanoob
12-18-2005, 10:50 PM
cheers mate!!!

I have tried to make an inset in the door and it turned out like this :(

http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/8318/scene7fa.jpg

Dont know why is there an explanation

:)

mayanoob
12-18-2005, 11:58 PM
sorted!

I set all my normals to hard :wise: lol

mayanoob
12-19-2005, 11:10 PM
Updates....
Shop - http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/2265/scene5bx.jpg

Bus stop - http://img347.imageshack.us/img347/6290/scene29jg.jpg

Park (Probably going to change) -
http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/1582/scene38yc.jpg


Cheers :)

HellBoy
12-19-2005, 11:16 PM
i defenetly see some improvement, big time

I'm not sure what that block building thing is in your park shot but keep them comming

mayanoob
12-19-2005, 11:39 PM
toilet block ;) when its textured it will have a pink and a blue door

LOL cheers, I will post some more renders when i complete modelling some more back streets.

Ta mate

Konstruct
12-20-2005, 04:45 AM
looking good- your def. improving. only thing that looks odd to me at the moment is the series of steps going up to the ladder. It might make more sense if the ladder came all the way to the ground.

mayanoob
12-20-2005, 12:22 PM
sorted the steps out and I added a garage

Full - http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/9344/scene40uh.jpg

Steps -
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/3839/scene51gr.jpg


Garage -http://img400.imageshack.us/img400/3825/scene63in.jpg



:)

mayanoob
12-21-2005, 09:04 PM
Police station..............
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/3083/policesari1sy.jpg

Close up......
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/6791/policesari25sh.jpg

Thanks

mayanoob
12-21-2005, 09:45 PM
criticism, ideas and opinions are all welcome

Things i could do

-Houses
-Supermarket
-Cinema

...................Anyone think of any more? that would be suitable for someone of my ability


Thanks ;)

ChimpanG
12-22-2005, 04:19 PM
you've got enough now to start refining. get this lot up to scratch.

Konstruct
12-22-2005, 05:34 PM
watch it now- dont bite off more than you can chew. keep in mind yor going to have to UV and texture all this. Its totally up to you, but like people have said before, you should focus on one building, getting it to look right before moving on to other buildings.

right now your learning a workflow, and your probably going to hit various kinks and bumps in the process. It`ll probably be easier to work all the kinks out of your workflow on a 1 building project, rather that a 10 building project.

as for the modeling, you buildings look pretty boxy. maybe you havnt gotten to the refining stage, (your shop is looking good btw) but you should thing in terms of building stucture, support beams, trim etc:

this is a pretty good example of what I`m talking about:
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=146842
props to mindrot- that guy has grown SO much over the least few years-

also the stairs to the ladder arent that convincing.- firstly because there really clunky, and have far too much geometry for what they are. look at the stairs on that hotel for referance. - another reason they dont work to well is for over all functionality. like as a builder thats WAY too much building material for something that could be done with a longer ladder.

looging better each time, just focus your attention more on your forms, and small detail, and most important, funtionality, and you`ll get it.

mayanoob
12-22-2005, 09:23 PM
Okay I'll get what I've done textured.....

Here are some of my UV and progress in block colours....

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/3580/uving3vh.jpg

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/6733/uving23hr.jpg

http://img430.imageshack.us/img430/3857/uvwip1ib.jpg


Sorry for poor quality of image, stupid compressed jpegs

Anyway I'll post more when I've done more

mayanoob
12-23-2005, 10:00 AM
Heres some of my texturing

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/200/shop7lc.jpg

Cheers :)

ChimpanG
12-23-2005, 12:18 PM
thought i'd tell you before you start texturing your stairs, look at how they are structured, you dont really get half of them suspended in the air like that without some form of column below them, its not realistic architecture

itsallgoode9
12-23-2005, 02:51 PM
man, I wouldn't even think about starting to texture yet. you've got so much more you should do with the model before even beginning to think of anything else. The model is less than simple right now, it's missing many details that should be put in, and much of the modeling you've done isn't realistic at all...like those stairs. Go out, take some pictures of a convience store or somthing. Don't just make a building that represents a building, make a building that is a building. I know you're a newb, but there's no excuse to be leaving out details such as you did...i dunno, but it looks like you're just being lazy to me. If you're making a "realistic" object, then make it realistic. Best of luck to ya.

mayanoob
12-24-2005, 04:18 PM
Could you advance on what need to be improved. I've added more detail.

Heres my lastest renders

http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/7599/detail0ef.jpg

http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/2850/detail20my.jpg

http://img367.imageshack.us/img367/9189/detail30gb.jpg


Is that what you mean by adding detail? let me know

Thanks

ChimpanG
12-24-2005, 04:21 PM
i'll repeat that that staircase on the outside is unrealistic, look at a real one

mayanoob
12-24-2005, 04:27 PM
Yes I will, I'll improve it later ........


Thanks

HellBoy
12-24-2005, 04:47 PM
Hay there

An easy way is to model meshes sepaeratly. If you're not doing so its much easier

Wire scene is helpful

here's some tips from my limited knowledge:
What I sometimes love to do is when I do a scene similar to yours to compare it to a scene in my area or a pic found in google. Always use a real pic to compare, not saying your stuff is not looking good but an advice :)

From the looks of it, there's no light in your scene, that could help alot, also try to render in another render engine, like mental ray, once you add a light, activate the Global illumination and I'm sure you'll be very happy with that

good stuff :thumbsup:

mayanoob
12-29-2005, 05:39 PM
I have took onboard what you said and I have started to do indivdual meshes

Heres a pub for example...

http://img328.imageshack.us/img328/66/pub7oc.jpg


I'll post more when I get chance

Thanks Hellboy

mayanoob
12-29-2005, 08:34 PM
A few more renders of this pub im working on


http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/5467/pub22cl.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/2659/pub39vn.jpg


It's just over 400 tris without deleting unused faces

Thanks for crits

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