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Rogue
11-23-2002, 08:02 PM
Hey guys, here's my 10 second club entry for November. I've got until Sunday night to make changes. Maybe Monday, I'm not sure if the 25th deadline means by the 25th, or before the 25th is over. So, I've got 1 or 2 days to make changes.

I'm not really concerned about lighting, models, texturing..etc. The contest is only concerned with animation. But if it's a quick fix, I might can address those issues as well.

So tear it apart gentlemen. Be as critical as you'd like to be. Don't be shy, have me for lunch! :) As for now, I'm going to get a beer and take a little nap!

Animation (http://www.roguesplace.com/animations/Hazard.mpg)

Oh, let me know if you have any problems with the link.

Thanks

James

jschleifer
11-24-2002, 02:08 AM
some nice work in there.. especially with the little small white guy!

A few general comments..

1) the eyes are moving around too smoothly.. when they move, try darting them more and holding them. Right now they look floaty.

2) try and hold the shot a bit longer at the end so you can see what happens with the switch.

3) Both characters move in the same manor.. throwing their hands out to make a point. maybe have them try something else? not sure if you have enough time for that tho..

otherwise, some good work in there!
-jason

Rogue
11-24-2002, 03:00 AM
Thanks for the comments.

1) I'm assuming by your comments that you're saying they (the eyes) are moving too slowly. Is that the case? I can easily quicken their movement and rerender. But I'd like to make sure that's what you mean. Also, I have tension of 1 (ease in/ease out) on their movement. I can make them linear if you feel that might also help.

2) I originally had the end shot a bit longer. The thing is though, when the audio ends (there's music and some ambiance) it all just goes dead....It's this weird thing that kind of kills the whole thing. That's why I decided to just end it at the end of the audio. They are animated past that point and can render further. Of coarse, it's about the animation and not whether or not it begins and ends with the audio. Still, it's hard for me to look over it. :)

3) Yeah, I'm still having problems with knowing what to do with the hands and gesturing. I'm hoping that with time, it'll become easier to animate them in a more meaningful manner...mannor..man..however it's spelled. :rolleyes: I'll certainly give some thought to this and if I can come up with something more appropriate and have time, I'll get it done. Any ideas from yourself would be greatly appreciated as well.

This is actually my first real attempt at acting with characters with a actors/actress' voice. I found this clip to be fairly challenging because I didn't want to over animate it. Yet, I didn't want them to be stagnant.

Thanks for the reply. I hope that I have time to address all the issues you've stated.

Thanks again!

jschleifer
11-24-2002, 07:40 AM
1) Yep, they're moving too slowly.. you can make the eye darts as few as 2-4 frames long, depending on the amount of motion. Also, try to vary them a bit.. like when the second cat says "replicants are like any other machine".. before he says anything have him look at the head by focusing on one eye, and then dart to the other.. so it looks a bit like he's thinking and looking at the replicant before speaking. Then when you have him talking you can try varying the eys to dart right.. then right again.. then left.. hold.. right.. something like that. Play with the timings between darts to give them a little bit of life. Eyes are pretty tough to nail.. but they can add so much. You're really close tho.. keep at it! :)

2) If you want to end it there, that's cool.. but have the white cat not make as much of a take because it distracts the viewer from what the darker cat is doing & then by the time they see what's going on, it's over.

3) Maybe if he rests his hand on the cats head, and then rubs his fingers together like he's just wiped up some dust or something? Do the action yourself and see what your hands do. Say the line as if there was someone in front of you. Remember, you don't always need to come up with something for the hands to do which relates to what you're saying.. you can be absentmindedly fiddling with something.. resting on something else.. you get the idea..

you've done a really nice job keeping it subtle and focusing on the acting.. really good work!
-jason

Rogue
11-24-2002, 12:13 PM
Thanks Jason, that's some great tips. I was going to work on the eyes last night, but had to crash. So I'll start on that now.

Originally, I thought about making the gray cats hand rub the table at its edge while he was looking down, but thought it might not read or look odd. Maybe I should've stuck with that idea. I'll do the eyes and get that rendering and work on the hands in a seperate scene, just in case I don't get done in time....that's a lot of keyframes to fix. :)

BTW, I really like your balloon dog animation in the challange. I very much want to enter CGTalks animation challenge what I get this one done, but that'll leave me with 7 days to do it. :surprised

Rogue
11-24-2002, 05:53 PM
The link is updated with the new version. I've speed the eye changes and adjusted a few spots to make the eye darts a little better. It looks a lot better. Thanks for the hint. Although, I'm still not entirely happy with the eye darting yet.

I also extended the ending out. That helps it read a little better as to what's going on. I had to do some more animating at the end and it's a little rushed.

I started working on changing his arm movements. I have his right hand going over and grabbing his left arm and rubbing it a little. It's looking ok, but there's a lot of tweaking that still has to happen and I'm afraid I'm running out of time. I've got until 6:30 tomarrow morning, but I've got neglected family and household chores to attend to.

There's a couple of other minor things I tweaked on but probably wouldn't even be noticeable.

Take a look again if you get the chance and let me know what you think.

And where is everybody? I crit alot of animations on here. I thought there'd be tons of people chomping at the bits to crit one of mine for some payback. :)

Thanks again for your help.

bentllama
11-25-2002, 05:56 PM
Sorry Rogue. We all appreciate the feedback you lend on this forum. I was away for the weekend and therefore could not comment on the animation. I do know that submissions were due in for 10sec last night...so I will offer this to say...

Good luck Rogue!

Rogue
11-26-2002, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by bentllama
Sorry Rogue. We all appreciate the feedback you lend on this forum. I was away for the weekend and therefore could not comment on the animation. I do know that submissions were due in for 10sec last night...so I will offer this to say...

Good luck Rogue!

Thanks! I think it requires more skill than luck...both of which I don't have enough of. :) I've looked at all the animations and I think Keith Lango deserves it. His spot is a bit more subtle than I would like, but he nailed the 'thinking' of his character.

And just because the entry is already submitted, I'll still be glad for whatever crits I can get. It's something for the demo reel and that doesn't have a specific deadline, so things can still be tweaked.

Thanks

ilasolomon
11-27-2002, 12:08 AM
hey helllo Rogue :)
nice work, i really was enjoying watching it for several times. good feeling.
but i have a suggestion, playback the anim in about %50 faster in FPS, & see the result.
i think you should compress your keyframes here & there.
another very important thing is some MISSING ANTICIPATIONS.
good work.
Regards.
Ila.

Rogue
11-27-2002, 12:52 AM
Hey ila_solomon, long time no see. Glad you liked the animation. Thank's for taking the time to check it out and make some crits.

First, what are you using to watch it at half speed? I'm unable to do that at here. I can do it at home with LW when I load the scene there. I'll do that later tonight when I get home.

In the mean time, could you be more specific? Like what parts should be compressed? And what are some of the missing anticipations? I've looked at the thing so much, I can't look at it objectively anymore. So some fresh eyes are great! I just need you to direct my eyes a little more. :)

Anyways, I'll check it out half speed as you say when I get home...maybe it'll hit me then.

Thanks again.

ilasolomon
11-27-2002, 08:45 AM
watch it at half speed?
oh no! not HALF speed, I meant %50 FASTER, means if you are
playing it in 30fps try 45 fps then! :)
about the antips, when you speed-up the keyframes then you
need to exagrate the antips, that's it. like head movements & body (hands already have)

dominicqwek
11-27-2002, 04:46 PM
Hey nice work you got there. Some comments, the characters do not have each a distinguishable persona. Meaning to say if there was a swap in voice, it wouldnt make a difference. Perhaps you might wanna consider certaina actions that might help key in that character personality.

I really like the white character a lot . :beer:

Cheers

Rogue
11-27-2002, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by ila_solomon
oh no! not HALF speed, I meant %50 FASTER, means if you are
playing it in 30fps try 45 fps then! :)
about the antips, when you speed-up the keyframes then you
need to exagrate the antips, that's it. like head movements & body (hands already have)
DOHHH!!! I didn't get the chance to look at it like that last night, but I'll do that tonight. I'll work on the anticipation! Thanks dude.

Originally posted by dom
Hey nice work you got there. Some comments, the characters do not have each a distinguishable persona. Meaning to say if there was a swap in voice, it wouldnt make a difference. Perhaps you might wanna consider certaina actions that might help key in that character personality.

I really like the white character a lot . :beer:

Cheers
I had a similar crit from another person. It's some great advice that I haven't given much thought. Although, I can't imagine why....it makes sense. It's certainly something I going to start giving alot of thought about and try to incorporate that into my animations, they tend to look kind of 'generic' now.

Yeah, I like the white kitty to. ;)

Thanks guys, you comments mean a lot to me. :thumbsup:

muckywetnoodle
11-28-2002, 09:31 AM
I think the emotions and lipsynch would read a lot better if you pushed the face states a lot further as well as use them to help define the personalities of your characters. It's a toon, they like to exagerate.

The motion was pretty good from the shoulders out but they need more body movement to bring life to them. For instance, when Ford turns and switches off the bot, his hips hardly move at all. If you act it out you do quite a bit of twisting.

Also, some actions are understated, like when the white cat jumps at the end.

Good going at any rate. I didn't get mine done! Hopefully soon.

Rogue
11-28-2002, 01:11 PM
Thanks muckywetnoodle

Normally, I do animate with more exagerated facial expressions. More like the cat on the table. I was trying to not over animate the audio clip...keeping it real subtle. It was difficult to find that line. Not too subtle and not subtle enough. It was a challenging clip. The lipsync was my second lipsync I've done. I've got alot of improving to do with my lipsync. :(

You're right about the hips/torso. There is some movement there, but it may have been too subtle. When I tweak it a little for the reel (well, should I say IF I get to do it) I'll add some more movement and twisting.

The white cat at the end was my biggest problem with the clip. I'm not very happy with how it turned out. I think understated terms it well.

Thanks for the crits.

lricho
11-28-2002, 11:27 PM
this could be me judging this unfairly cos I am remembering how harrison ford looks in the film, but the dark one might look better if you made him a bit more moody, or perhaps bored with the whole proceeding? Hunch his shoulders a bit, droop his eyelids a bit more, etc. Your character just looks a little bit too alert for the way the line is being delivered.

Hehe, i just realised it is really easy to say "make him look bored", but is probably terribly hard to get a cartoon creature to look like that :)

Rogue
11-29-2002, 06:30 PM
That's a good idea. I didn't think of it in that way. I was going for a sort of annoyed, 'don't care for debate I'm destroying all replicants' kind of attitude...but it may not read as such. :)

1llusive
12-12-2002, 06:05 AM
Not too shabby! Just a minor crit regarding the eyes on the fella's head resting on the table; it's good to have the eyes dart around quickly, but once it stops, it shouldn't stay focused, but rather have subtle movements.
The next time you have a conversation with someone, pay attention to their eyes as they stare at you, note the constant subtle movements.
The one-eyed monster Mike Wasowski from Monsters Inc has perfect eye anim.
IMHO, it's the minor details that make an anim piece truly kickass.

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