Modo demo : crashing every time on F4.

[Para]

Update your display drivers, it seems like the OpenGL driver of your nvidia card is causing the trouble.

[dOMINUSMess]

Thanks Para : it seems an OGL issue indeed, but have just installed the latest NVidia drivers ( 81.95_forceware_winxp2k_english_whql.exe ) and nothing has changed, Modo keeps crashing on opening the Material Editor.

I guess I'll stick to Lightwave.

[Phil Lawson]

Try deleting your config file located here:-

Documents and Settings\Username\Application Data\Luxology\modo.cfg

Then run modo again and see if the problem goes away. I dont think the cfg file gets removed during uninstall...

Cheers.

[dOMINUSMess]

Thanks for the tip Phil.

I have not changed or deleted the config file but apparently the problem has gone away.
Strange though : because after installing the latest NVidia drivers, the crash kept on happening.
I thought to give it one more go, and now it seems to work fine, without having changed something.

Hope it stays that way, because my first impression of Modo is very good, but if I encounter stability issues like this more often, then I think it's not worth all the hassle.

Thanks for the help.

EDIT: Well, after closing Modo, reopening it and trying the tutorial again, Modo crashed again after reopening the Material Editor (F4).
Went to look for the config file, deleted it and my first impression is that this solved the problem.

Again, I hope it stays that way.

Thanks for the help.

EDIT 2 : NOPE ! It just happened again.
Gonna uninstall the demo and stick with frustrations in Lightwave.
There's enough of them there at no additional cost.

Very dissapointing ...

[djcorea]

I vaguely remember that when I was dowloading the demo, or installing it (can't remember), there's was something written in some warning about the latest nVidia drivers... I really can't remember as I have an ATI, and I can't find this on the Lux site... but I think that the latest drivers cause some problems and they advise the older version (again, don't know which one).

Anybody knows the details about this?

[mcewan7]

You need to revert your nvidia drivers to 78.01 none of the 8 series of drivers work well with Modo yet. When I installed the 8 series my Modo would crahs within 10 minutes all the time. I can happily say I don't get any crashing with 78.01 unless I use spline tools ;)

I also replied to your previous post about crashing and suggested it may have been the drivers, as you are using 81.95 then its definately those.

[dOMINUSMess]

mcewan7 posted : I can happily say I don't get any crashing with 78.01 unless I use spline tools

Well, first : IMO you should be able to use those tools ; and second : I had the 78.01 intsalled when installing the Modo demo in the first place.

Then I tried the 81.95, then the 77.77 and finally the 71.89 drivers.
Every time uninstalling the drivers first before installing another.

With every one of those drivers, Modo crashed when reopening the Material Editor after having closed it.
I've had Modo crashing 10 times more often in a couple of hours, than Lightwave Layout in over 2 years !!! (LW Modeler has not crashed one time !)

I am very dissapointed, more so because the UVmapping seemed very promising.
But if one can not even open a material editor after having closed it, ...
I'm fed up with trying.

For what it's worth : thanks for trying to help me.

[dOMINUSMess]

Well, keep on trying and I experienced that the crash happens every time I've dragged an image onto selected (named) polys : when the image is being displayed on the polys, I close the Material Editor, and reopening it just crashes Modo every single time.

I can not believe I am the only one that has this problem occuring.

EDIT : Please, could someone check ou this file I've uploaded :
http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/my_KajetanChildHead.lwo (http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/my_KajetanChildHead.lwo)
and do the following :
- open the my_KajetanChildHead.lwo file
- choose the Hat layer
- press F4 to open the Material Editor : here's where Modo crashes for me each time !

Thanks.

[djcorea]

I can not believe I am the only one that has this problem occuring.

I seems so. :)

[dOMINUSMess]

djcorea posted: I seems so.

Well, it's a B+*.tch !!!

I really want this to work fine, all the rest I've tried out really works well and I really like Modo, but I'm getting very frustrated with that crashing on F4.

Could anyone please check out the file I posted in my previous post above ?

Thanks.

EDIT: I've found a way "around" it I guess : when having dragged the image onto the polys, closing the Material Editor, and performing an operation like moving a point before reopening the material editor, results in me being able to reopen the material editor without modo crashing.

It always happens when I perform the same steps.
If I do somthing useless like moving geometry after having closed the Material Editor, then I can open it again and open and close it as much as I want, and assign as much images to poly groups as desired.

SO this proves to me that this is a BUG and not a problem with my computer.

I had in the meantime reinstalled the NVidia 78.01 driver, so it's NOT the driver !!!

So I guess I should sent that info to Luxology as a bug report.

Does anyone want to try the following for verification :
(it's from the tutorial in the User guide starting page 340)
- open KajetanChildHead.lwo (in the Luxology folder)
- select the hat layer
- select the loop of polys
- press "m" for assigning Polygon Set Material
- assign the material
- press F4 for Materials and Textures
- new image --> open LuxologyLogo.tga
- drag the image onto the poly selection
- close the material editor
- press F4 and CRASH !

[Nando]

change the nvidia display settings
Anti-Aliasing to: Off
Anisotropic to: Off
Vertical sync to: Off
if that doesnt help

Unistall nvidia Video driver
Log in VGA mode
Use drive cleaner to throughly unistall the nvida drivers http://drivercleaner.net/
Download these instead XTreme-G 81.89.v2 (http://www.tweaksrus.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_details&gid=403&Itemid=41/) install, and set the settings above like before.
If the link for drivers doesnt work you can get them in the download section @ http://www.tweaksrus.com

download everything before you unistall drivers since youll be in vga mode.
I dont run official Nvidia drivers anymore or install them to customers puters becuase they are more problematic.
If the above drivers dont work then going back to an older version like the XTreme-G 78.05-HD, might be a better choice. they dont have it in the downloads section anymore but if you need that version i can upload it somewhere so you can download it.

[swampthing]

Just checked your file for you, no problems whatsoever on my nvidia card.

[dOMINUSMess]

Thanks for trying to help guys.

Nothing you suggested helped, and what Dion suggested me by email (turning off "Vertex Arrays") did not work .

I'm positive it's a Modo BUG : when having closed the material editor the first time, then I CAN reopen it and continue working normally BUT only AFTER having done some 'useless' operation like moving a vertex, or scaling a poly or whatever.

If I do not do that 'useles operation', then opening the material editor a second time just after having closed it crashes Modo.
If I have done one of those operations, then from then on I can use the material editor as much as I like ===> SO : if it was a problem with my system, the crash would also occur with or without these extra operations on the geometry.

More so : I'm running Lightwave, ZBrush, Messiah, Blender, and other 3D apps with NO problems whatsoever (only Lightwave Layout crashing on me once in a blue moon).

I really hope that Dion comes up with a remedy, because I really like Modo, and I would not hesitate purchasing it if I can get it to work as my other apps work.

Thanks.

[mcewan7]

It does sound like its not a problem with your system if it works fine when you move a vertex before? Sorry mate, don't know what else to suggest. I've honestly had no problems with Material Editor so far.

The turning off "Vertex Arrays" is another good tip I forgot to mention but as you say that didn't make a difference. I hope it gets sorted for you.

[dOMINUSMess]

Finally a breakthrough I think.

I have a dual monitor setup : one flatscreen 1024x768 and one flatscreen 1280x1024.

The big screen has been set the primary screen, otherwise Messiah:Studio Workstation does "funny" things.

I was running Modo also on the big screen when the crashes happened.
I thought to give my trials one more go (you see, I really want this to work because I like Modo) and opened Modo on the LITTLE screen in order to take some 1024x768 res screenshots to post here.

Guess what : Modo did NOT crash when closing and reopening the Material Editor.
Vertex Arrays turned ON, and the NVidia display settings Nando talked about turned on(application controlled).

That's the good news.

The bad news : I really want to run the application on the big screen (obviously) and when I do that, the Material Editor crashes Modo like I explained so far.

Also changing in NVidia settings which screen is the primary screen, does not seem to solve the problem.
When I run Modo on the big screen, it crashes, when I run it on the little screen, it does not crash.

Anyone an idea to solve this ?

Thanks.

EDIT : Well, when I open the Modo window on the little screen, and leave it there, then duplicate the viewports to be able to work on the big screen, then the Material Editor does not crash Modo when I open it the second time, and without having to do some 'useless operation' before opening the Material Editor again.

This way I can work on the big screen and use the little screen for the other interface panels.

I definately think Modo has some issues with NVidia.
But my "workaround" AND provided I do not run into additional problems, make it satisfactory to me.

Thanks to all who tried to help me.

[mcewan7]

I take it your gfx card is running both monitors? Just out of curiosity disconnect the small screen and try it on the big screen. I wonder if it will work on the big screen when that is the only one connected?

[dOMINUSMess]

mcewan7 posted:I take it your gfx card is running both monitors? Just out of curiosity disconnect the small screen and try it on the big screen. I wonder if it will work on the big screen when that is the only one connected?
I had been wondering myself the same.
But I really do not wnat to go through all that hassle, because I regularly use different applications. If each time I want to switch from Modo to Lightwave or another app, I have to connect and disconnect one of the screens, well then I will go completely crazy for sure.
IMO opinion, Modo should run like the other apps.

Anyway, here's a pic of the setup that does work, although not completely to my liking, I guess it is satisfactory.
-
http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/mododual.jpg

[dOMINUSMess]

I also have been considering the fact that the big screen has a digital connection and the little screen an analog connection.

Maybe that's what's confusing Modo ?
I do'nt think it's confusing the graphics card, as all other programs run flawlessly with my setup.

I'm gonna check out Modo further, and hope not to run into any additional similar problems.

And I guess I'll wait for a Modo 201 demo version before purchasing, and hope that this has been fixed.
It's a pity, because without these issues, I'm sure I would have purchased it already.

On the other hand, it's Modo's strength that the interface is customizable like the way I've set it up.
If I would have had the same problem in Lightwave, then I would have been "scr*wed" , haha, because LW does not allow to open up additional windows (so I think).

Anyway, my budget only allows for a Lightwave upgrade (400 Euros) OR a Modo purchase (600 Euros) at the moment.
This time I will not choose as lightly as I've done in the past.
And as my main thing is modeling, and as I have NEVER had LW Modeler crash on me, and as my system setup gives LW no problems at all, at the moment because of these Modo issues, LW has the best cards for me.

If only Newtek would give more info on the features of LW 9.
I'm planning on learning to do UVmapping and texturing, and my experience in LW is that it sucks bigtime.
Therefore I was checking out Modo, and with the first thing I did with it (texturing), it crashed on me.

Ah well, ..., enough time wasted, gonna check out Modo further and await the Modo 201 demo and await the Lightwave 9 BUG list before purchasing any of them.

Thanks.

[mcewan7]

Yeah I think that is the best idea, wait for both the new versions to come out before deciding. I am thinking about the LW9 upgrade but I'm going to wait till its been available for a while before I decide. I am also thinking about Messiah, we'll see.

I know that switching monitors on and off is unacceptable, but it may be worth you trying just once to see if it works with the large monitor on its own. It will help rule out if having two monitors on one card was the problem here.

[dOMINUSMess]

mcewan7 posted:Yeah I think that is the best idea, wait for both the new versions to come out before deciding. I am thinking about the LW9 upgrade but I'm going to wait till its been available for a while before I decide. I am also thinking about Messiah, we'll see.

I know that switching monitors on and off is unacceptable, but it may be worth you trying just once to see if it works with the large monitor on its own. It will help rule out if having two monitors on one card was the problem here.
I can say that I'm very pleased with Messiah.
It's ease of rigging is a breeze compared to LW's rigging.
I've just started with it two weeks ago, and with the help of Joe Cosman's video tutorials, I've been able to do in Messiah in days what I could not acomplish in LW for months.
As always it also has some little quircks, but overall it's an excellent animation application.

In the meantime I've been checking out Modo, and I think it's great: the UI configurability, the selection tools, ... , if I do'nt experience any other major stuff as I experienced with "this F4 stuff" and I can work with it as I've done this afternoon, then I'm pretty sure my choice will become Modo. I do'nt see LW9 coming close to Modo's workflow.

Modo for modeling, Messiah for rigging and animation and Lightwave for rendering: seems a great pipeline to me.

Still, I'm very curious about LW9's new abilities, with modeling power in Layout and all.
But this time I'll wait for what is being said about it on the forums, though patience is NOT one of my virtues, aaarrggh :) .

As to the monitor setup, will check that out some other time.
For now it seems to be working, and I've had too much stress these past days :sad: to keep on messing around.

[WoodyLWG]

Hey Dominusmess - I know that you're sick of messing with it...but I noticed in an earlier post that you're running your two monitors at different resolutions. Perhaps try quickly setting them both to 1280x1024px and try it one more time. ;)

Good Luck!

[Mike RB]

Gah, 1280x1024!!!?!?!? That's a horrible rez for a 4:3 device like a CRT monitor. It's non square. You'll go way less crazy working at 1280x960...


Mike

[dOMINUSMess]

WoodyLWG posted: Hey Dominusmess - I know that you're sick of messing with it...but I noticed in
an earlier post that you're running your two monitors at different resolutions.
Perhaps try quickly setting them both to 1280x1024px and try it one more time.
Thanks for the tip, but my little monitor does not support resolutions above 1024x768.

But I did find something else: when running the main Modo screen on the big screen,
and running the F4 Material Editor window on the little screen, Modo does not crash when opening the Material
Editor a second time.

So I do not have to run the main Modo panel on the little screen as I thought before, I just have to make
sure that the Material Editor panel is on the little screen when I'm running the main Modo
panel on the big screen.

Dion suggested by email that it seems to be my graphics card which causes the problem.
I do not agree : although I realise that it is gfx card related, I strongly feel
that it is Modo that is not properly communicating with the graphics card, and not the other way around.

Another thing : Sonk messaged me pointing me to a thread here on CGTalk he started :
( http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=295696 (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=295696) ) :
Although I did not experience what he has experienced, it seems related to my problem :
he says he does not have his problem when dragging an edge first = like me when having the Material Editor closed
the first time, doing something 'useless' like dragging a vertex, and then I can reopen the
Material Editor without Modo crashing.

Dion is going to try out some different monitor setups.
I hope he can replicate the problem, so it'll be addressed in the future.

Anyway, as I said : as long as I make sure to run the main Modo panel on the little screen OR make
sure to run the Material Editor panel on the little screen, then Modo does not crash on me.
And that's enough for now to check out the demo.
But sadly not enough for me to already purchase Modo.

Thanks for the help.

[dOMINUSMess]

Here is my answer to Dion's (Luxology) email after trying to disconnect the smaller screen :


"
Hi Dion and thanks for triyng to help.
Yes, when the smaller monitor is turned off, the I do not have Modo crashing as I've described before.

It also does not crash when the main Modo panel is running on the little screen.

And as I just found out : it also is'nt crashing when I'm running the main Modo panel on the BIG screen PROVIDED I run the Material Editor on the little screen when opening the Material Editor a SECOND time.

But, as I've ... WAIT : you'll never believe it, as I'm writing this mail, I just restarted the desktop after having reconnected the smaller monitor. And now it works on the big screen, but NOT on the little !

How to describe it?
Well : before disconnecting the smaller monitor, the WINDOWS TASKBAR ALWAYS displayed on the smaller screen, because this way it does not interfere with my work on the big screen : you know : it is set to dissappear automatically, and when working and going to the bottom of the screen, it reappears, which is annoying : so I made sure the taskbar always appears on the little screen.
BUT: now that I had disconnected the little one, the taskbar appears on the big screen, and now things have been reversed : so everything I described before has been reversed : when running Modo on the big screen now and the Material Editor also, then Modo does not crash, but now it crashes when I run the Material editor on the little screen.
CONCLUSION: now that the Windows Taskbar appears on the big screen, things have COMPLETELY REVERSED, no mather which screen has been set to be the primary screen.
And which is not exactly a solution to my problem.

I do agree with you that it is Graphics Card related.
BUT: I also strongly feel that it is Modo that is not properly communicating with the graphics card, and not the other way around!!!
As said on CGTalk, I run LW, Messiah, ZBrush, Blender and other 3D apps WITHOUT any problems, and disconnecting or purchasing another screen is simply not an option.
It would be an option if other apps would cause the same problems, but they do'nt.
So to me it's Modo's problem.

I really like Modo, so I'll wait for the 201 demo to see if things have been fixed before purchasing, but I'm not going to continue with this messing around with my computer since ALL other apps run flawlessly.

I've already spent 3 days messing around, days which I would like have spent modeling with "the best modeler", not "trying to get it to work properly".
I'm not being agressive here, just dissapointed because I do feel that Modo is an awesome modeler, and being a very impatient person, I would have purchased Modo already without this issue.

Just like the Messiah demo : I purchased messiah the FIRST day I experimented with the demo, because I instantly felt comfortable with it.

But I'll say it again : my other software does not have ONE problem whatsoever with my system setup, so to me it's Modo which should be "fixed".
Thanks for your help and kind regards, ...
"

[dOMINUSMess]

And yet another issue:

I disconnected the big screen, so now only the little screen is running, and the Material Editor just does NOT show up at all!

Trying to reset my system settings as before disconnectiong any of the screens, reconnecting all , has resulted in the main Modo panel opening on the little screen, and about 50 Material Editor panels on my big screen!

AAAAAhhrrrgggggg :eek: !

I just hope I do'nt have messed my system up causing problems for my other apps :sad: .

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