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laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 09:04 AM
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673578p1.html

TetraLynx
12-06-2005, 12:18 PM
It sounds cool but it is also sounding a tad weak. They are making it cheap by using current technology. That will help in the short term but how good will it be two years after it comes out? The thing that will save the Revolution isn't this new controller but the ability to play past Nintendo titles on the system. That said, the Revolution sounds flakey at best.

tozz
12-06-2005, 03:07 PM
Why is this becoming more and more like the DS. The touchscreen would revolutionize the gaming world bla bla, yeah, we saw what happened with that. I'm betting the same will happen with this poking stick, the entire gaming market was built without it, I think it'll continue to grow without it :)
We'll, they're building a hype like nothing else around Revolution, for their sake I hope they deliver.

OzzyCat
12-06-2005, 03:56 PM
Why is this becoming more and more like the DS. The touchscreen would revolutionize the gaming world bla bla, yeah, we saw what happened with that. I'm betting the same will happen with this poking stick, the entire gaming market was built without it, I think it'll continue to grow without it :)

Yes indeed we DID see what happened with the DS... they sold, and continue to sell, millions of units!!! The DS is a MASSIVE success story! Jeez...

And one other thing ... the entire game market was built without the 'poking stick' because it was built around (console's at least), the d-pad, which was a Nintendo invention! They in fact, still own the patent on a cross pad design, which is why you'll notice that no one else has been able to do exactly that style (Playstation went for button style d-pad, not for ease of use or ergonomics, but because they couldn't legally do the same as Nintendo).

You seem short of facts. Nintendo pretty much invented gaming for the mass market. Atari did kick things off but Nintendo came along and destroyed them and created essentially, a new market. Sony's PlayStation wouldn't exist without Nintendo.

They'll deliver.

ilya11
12-06-2005, 03:56 PM
"Why is this becoming more and more like the DS. The touchscreen would revolutionize the gaming world bla bla, yeah, we saw what happened with that."

- And what did happen with it? DS outsell PSP games and for the most part are a hell of a lot more fun to play. I know a few people who own both PSP and DS and they all say they have more games for DS and with a few exeptions prefer them.

tozz
12-06-2005, 04:10 PM
Sigh... talk about talking about totally different things. So with your reasoning Pokémon is the greatest game series ever, because it sold.

I know DS sold well and keeps selling, now how many games utilize the touchscreen in the marvelous way it was inteded to do (as Nintendo said)? And how many games are standard games without the need for touchscreen at all.

Nintendo also did virtual boy, just because they did great in the start doesn't mean they will do great for the future ahead.

I liked the SNES, it delivered alot of really good games, I got a GC as soon as possible, only to discover there wasn't anything new coming to it at all (I played Eternal Darkness four times through just because the lack of games). So if we gonna talk sales, how well did the GC do? And what resembles the Revolution the most, the DS or the GC? (Remember how Nintendo claimed that graphics wasn't needed, and there was other things to games, I agree, there's plenty, but you can't leave it out).

heavyness
12-06-2005, 04:10 PM
Why is this becoming more and more like the DS. The touchscreen would revolutionize the gaming world bla bla, yeah, we saw what happened with that.

yeah, its selling like crazy and Mario Kart and Animal Crossing [both online] are getting awesome reviews. and of course, Nintendogs which is crack for most kids out there... can't get enough of it!



Sigh... talk about talking about totally different things. So with your reasoning Pokémon is the greatest game series ever, because it sold.

ask kid who played pokemon and they will say yes.

eric3dee
12-06-2005, 04:29 PM
As an old Xbox fanatic (I never even owned a Gamecube), the DS changed my entire outlook on both games and Nintendo. If they do with the Revolution what they accomplished with the DS. Then screw the console wars, just give me the Revolution.

tozz
12-06-2005, 04:41 PM
As an old Xbox fanatic (I never even owned a Gamecube), the DS changed my entire outlook on both games and Nintendo. If they do with the Revolution what they accomplished with the DS. Then screw the console wars, just give me the Revolution.
Just hope they don't do what they did with the Gamecube (got about the same ideas there as they do with the Revolution). I did the mistake to listen to their hype then, I won't do it this time :)

enygma
12-06-2005, 04:52 PM
Personally, I'm in love with the DS. Nintendogs and Advance Wars: Dual Strike... very good games, and can both be played well by only using the touch screen. I would have to say that the DS is an excellent system and can't really see anything wrong with it to justify Tozz' statements regarding this. I really want to get Mario Kart and my wife is very intent on playing the new Animal Crossing.

Having said that, I see the Revolution as being a step in the right direction in terms of gaming. I have personally not been too concerned regarding performance capabilities, mainly because I know that the games will play just as good regardless (to an extent). I'm anxiously waiting for the revolution to come out. That is one system I know I'm getting on launch.

pixelmonk
12-06-2005, 04:53 PM
Yes indeed we DID see what happened with the DS... they sold, and continue to sell, millions of units!!! The DS is a MASSIVE success story! Jeez...

And one other thing ... the entire game market was built without the 'poking stick' because it was built around (console's at least), the d-pad, which was a Nintendo invention! They in fact, still own the patent on a cross pad design, which is why you'll notice that no one else has been able to do exactly that style (Playstation went for button style d-pad, not for ease of use or ergonomics, but because they couldn't legally do the same as Nintendo).

You seem short of facts. Nintendo pretty much invented gaming for the mass market. Atari did kick things off but Nintendo came along and destroyed them and created essentially, a new market. Sony's PlayStation wouldn't exist without Nintendo.

They'll deliver.

you seem to be a fanboy of Nintendo. Nintendo would still rule the market if it weren't for Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo needs to do something to stay in the game or they might as well just turn into what Sega has become. Their controller isn't that revolutionary. Hell... even $15 games I see on TV now come with interactive controllers. I've seen a golf game, paintball game, baseball game and a western-style game. Big deal. As for the unit and its size.. I'm glad Sony and Microsoft were smart enough to make sure that standard sized DVDs can be played in their units. Nintendo missed the mark by continually trying to make everything with the cutesy japanese anime style. Sony and MS realize their products will help to bring the home theater/entertainment center together. Nintendo is just a chump still rehashing their old games.... Mario XXXI coming soon!

SalmonGod
12-06-2005, 05:16 PM
Nintendo would still rule the market if it weren't for Sony and Microsoft.

you're right, they would... Nintendo would still rule the market if Squaresoft and a couple others hadnt backstabbed them several years ago... not enough people know the story...

Nintendo's next system after SNES was originally going to be a CD system... and actually they were going to make a cd peripheral for the SNES before that... and they were doing this at the advice of Squaresoft and a couple other major 3rd party developers... they had already been developing the thing in cooperation with Sony for some time when Square suddenly went back on their word and said "hey dont do this stick with cartridges"... now at this time Square ONLY made games exclusively for Nintendo and the two companies were extremely close partners... so Nintendo didn't even question... they dropped the CD designs and said "too bad sorry Sony"... Sony had already finished most of the work on the thing so they said "why not" and released the Playstation... and then Square said "oh sorry Nintendo I guess our new game just wont fit on a cartridge"... and that was that... FF7 single-handedly launched the Playstation to initial success... all other 3rd party developers followed not long after...

Sony owes alot to Nintendo... and Square deserves a few good lashings for that crap... it's the only major mistake Nintendo's ever made in my opinion

the whole industry owes everything to Nintendo for incorporating basically everything the industry leans on... Light Guns, D-Pad, Analog Stick, every combination of buttons that's been used so far (except for having 2 shoulder buttons), the first completely 3d graphical game, numerous gaming genres... that's all just off the top of my head

enygma
12-06-2005, 05:24 PM
I thought the plan to stick with carts were Nintendos internal plan with Square feeling backstabbed. This is the first I've heard that Squaresoft influenced the decision to stick with carts.

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 05:30 PM
u must all remember that, these are all developers who are only working with one of the two GPUs. Even if that dont make a difference and it still is a souped up xbox, how does that differ from what is currently out on the market at the moment? the xbox 360 is currently producing games that look like they could be on any one of the current gen systems, only time will tell if this will change in the future. relax my friends like i posted under my different username lastchild 7, the graphics shown in many of the real time tech demos for the gamecube are still quite impressive now, so with something 3-4 times more powerful i am not gonna complain. Microsoft and sony are currently in a penis size comparison war which nintendo just cannot be bothered to enter, they probably realise that they are not going to become the market leader, because currently peope only want to buy the most powerful consoles with more realistic game characters, and this and that , but they will continue to make changes in the industry that the other competitors just will not be able to progress without, eg:


Control pads Nintendo
D pad Nintendo
analog controls Nintendo
Online gaming , yes it was nintendo !64 dd
Eye toy , Nintendo 64 dd gameboy colour
In game targeting Systems Nintendo
Game Hard drives Nintendo 64 dd
The next big thing in gaming will probably be brought about nintendo. There is a difference between a fanboy and a gaming purist.

PhilOsirus
12-06-2005, 05:34 PM
they had already been developing the thing in cooperation with Sony for some time when Square suddenly went back on their word and said "hey dont do this stick with cartridges"... now at this time Square ONLY made games exclusively for Nintendo and the two companies were extremely close partners... so Nintendo didn't even question... they dropped the CD designs and said "too bad sorry Sony"...

Myth. Nintendo decided to drop the CD format to make money with cartridges, told Sony they didn't need them anymore, and Squaresoft didn't like the idea of making games on a cartridge-based format since they wanted to make cinematics in their games. Nintendo got greedy, that's why they kicked Sony off their plans, they wanted to be the only ones involved and believed there was going to be no competition around.

heavyness
12-06-2005, 08:01 PM
you seem to be a fanboy of Nintendo.

and you seem to be an anti-nintendo fan. "i hate what you like"

Nintendo would still rule the market if it weren't for Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo needs to do something to stay in the game or they might as well just turn into what Sega has become.

the Nintendo DS out sold every system combined in Japan when Nintendogs was released.
Their controller isn't that revolutionary. Hell... even $15 games I see on TV now come with interactive controllers. I've seen a golf game, paintball game, baseball game and a western-style game. Big deal. As for the unit and its size.. I'm glad Sony and Microsoft were smart enough to make sure that standard sized DVDs can be played in their units. Nintendo missed the mark by continually trying to make everything with the cutesy japanese anime style. Sony and MS realize their products will help to bring the home theater/entertainment center together. Nintendo is just a chump still rehashing their old games.... Mario XXXI coming soon!

you forget, those games sucks. nintendo has been able to make awesome games that have game play other studios which they could implant into their games. the smaller discs helped stop the spread of pirating games... size of disc means nothing. Resident Evil 4 [game of the year in many eye's] came on 2 discs. also, rehashing old game? there has been 7 major Mario titles. 5 of them have been 2d side scrollers but each one received game play upgrades and new mechanics. 2 have been 3D. plus, mario has been around for over 20+ years, some games are on their 5th or 6th sequel and only debuted 10 years ago.

K-Sin
12-06-2005, 08:47 PM
trying to make everything with the cutesy japanese anime style
Funny I was under the impression that there were millions of half @$$ed cutesy japanese anime styled games on the PS and PS2. In fact almost all the games for that machine when I walk into a shop selling games are one of 2 types. Rushed game versions of recent movies or random anime style RPG games which have ripped everything off of squaresoft, oh and i suppose there's the odd sports/racing game.

I also seem to recall that the last installment of Zelda was trying to break the masses away from anime style. Sure it was cutesy but it was far more american looking than anime.

Nintendo needs to do something to stay in the game or they might as well just turn into what Sega has become.
Other than the fact that SEGA still make a large portion of the GOOD games getting released. I do agree with you, SEGA went down cos they released something we weren't read for. The differences in the Dreamcast and PS2 were not that big but it flopped like the SEGA saturn, and with 2 major failures SEGA had to pull out. If Nintendo goes too far inhead in changing gaming like the Dreamcast did the consol may just hit the dirt. But it will not be a 2nd failure in a row, the DS made sure of that. So I doubt Nintendo will pull out like SEGA did after revolutions but i could end up pulling out if the DS2 (or whatever they come up with) is also a failure. A lot of money is in the handheld business, and only one competitor (could it just be big enough for the both of them?).

Dija
12-06-2005, 08:51 PM
QUOTE:

" Myth. Nintendo decided to drop the CD format to make money with cartridges, told Sony they didn't need them anymore, and Squaresoft didn't like the idea of making games on a cartridge-based format since they wanted to make cinematics in their games. Nintendo got greedy, that's why they kicked Sony off their plans, they wanted to be the only ones involved and believed there was going to be no competition around."



Don´t forget that they demanded Square to make a better version of FF7 to N64 after square announced it for the playstation. Square then broke with them because of nintendo´s own arrogance.

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 09:02 PM
Sigh... talk about talking about totally different things. So with your reasoning Pokémon is the greatest game series ever, because it sold.

I know DS sold well and keeps selling, now how many games utilize the touchscreen in the marvelous way it was inteded to do (as Nintendo said)? And how many games are standard games without the need for touchscreen at all.

Nintendo also did virtual boy, just because they did great in the start doesn't mean they will do great for the future ahead.

I liked the SNES, it delivered alot of really good games, I got a GC as soon as possible, only to discover there wasn't anything new coming to it at all (I played Eternal Darkness four times through just because the lack of games). So if we gonna talk sales, how well did the GC do? And what resembles the Revolution the most, the DS or the GC? (Remember how Nintendo claimed that graphics wasn't needed, and there was other things to games, I agree, there's plenty, but you can't leave it out).

Hi there how u doing? I dont think nintendo said that graphics are not needed, i remember iwata saying that when you turn on the system you will say "Wow!" because of the graphics, he has also gone on record as saying that on a normal television, It would be hard to tell the difference between the revo and the other next gen systems, but on HDTV is the area the others will excel in. Nintendo also stated that there systems follow a particular order, called the evolution to revolution or something like that. For example



Nes (revolution)
Snes (evolution)
N64 Revolution
Gamecube (Evolution)
Revolution (ummm Revolution)
They system shows that the evolutionary consoles simply improve on the previous console, for example the gc was an improved n64, it didnt really bring any revolutionary aspects but the N64 did.

I am not going to lie and tell all of you that i am an expert on this whole development kit thingy, so correct me if i am wrong but didnt xbox360 developers work with less power ?
I think i remember reading something like that , that is why perfect dark zero used to look like this. or summin, ignore me if i am speaking from my well sanatised cravass.

http://xbox.1up.com/media?id=2017678&type=lg

http://xbox.1up.com/media?id=1879119&type=lg

pixelmonk
12-06-2005, 09:07 PM
and you seem to be an anti-nintendo fan. "i hate what you like".

makes no sense.. what if you liked the PS.. would I be an anti-PS fan or just another "I hate what you like" person? Make some sense.


the Nintendo DS out sold every system combined in Japan when Nintendogs was released. "

yeah.. the japanese love them some cutesy anime style crap. Am I supposed to be impressed by that fact?

[QUOTE=kole] you forget, those games sucks. nintendo has been able to make awesome games that have game play other studios which they could implant into their games. the smaller discs helped stop the spread of pirating games... size of disc means nothing. ... <blah blah blah... fluffy crap to raise the Nintendo flag.. yawn...>QUOTE]

you're missing the point.. the size of the drive matters as kids (and adults) wouldn't mind using their gaming system for something other than playing games. So your whole paragraph was fluff. Carry on.

pixelmonk
12-06-2005, 09:10 PM
I am not going to lie and tell all of you that i am an expert on this whole development kit thingy, so correct me if i am wrong but didnt xbox360 developers work with less power ?
I think i remember reading something like that , that is why perfect dark zero used to look like this. or summin, ignore me if i am speaking from my well sanatised cravass.

http://xbox.1up.com/media?id=2017678&type=lg

http://xbox.1up.com/media?id=1879119&type=lg


typically most games that are presented during launch don't reflect what the system is capable of. Both Xbox and PS2 (worse) developers complained about lack of documentation and features list at the beginning of their development on that platform. It seems it took at least over a year for developers to start to harness the power of the consoles, Gamecube included (for the fanboys on this list).

SalmonGod
12-06-2005, 09:17 PM
you're missing the point.. the size of the drive matters as kids (and adults) wouldn't mind using their gaming system for something other than playing games.

on the other hand, there are many people out there who are hardcore gamers and feel that Sony and XBox are too concerned with making sleek multimedia machines and in the process the gaming side of things falls in quality a bit

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 09:31 PM
typically most games that are presented during launch don't reflect what the system is capable of. Both Xbox and PS2 (worse) developers complained about lack of documentation and features list at the beginning of their development on that platform. It seems it took at least over a year for developers to start to harness the power of the consoles, Gamecube included (for the fanboys on this list).

Thanx, I understand that part, since allot of xbox360 graphics at the moment dont look that much better than an xbox. but what i am asking about is the actual development stage.. Because apparantly these developers are only working with half of the revolutions graphical power or something like that .

anyway
i dont see a problem with graphics like this http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/571/571376/resident-evil-4-20041206035721015.jpg

being only 2-3 times better.

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 09:39 PM
wouldnt be to bad at all


http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/571/571376/resident-evil-4-20041206035722405.jpg

Hazdaz
12-06-2005, 09:41 PM
As usual, the Nintendo fanboys come out and defend a company that (once again) way exaggerated what it's console would be able to do. "It's like a souped up Xbox" LOL

I did have a humorous thought...

There really is NOTHING stopping either SONY or MS from coming out with their own 'alternative' controller - something that sort of mimics the Revolution's controller. And it wouldn't be a new idea either - after all, all those "dancing" games had a special mats. THere have been light guns in the past. And Microsoft (or maybe it was Logitech) came out with a gaming device for PCs that sort of functioned like the Rev controller - and this was many years ago.

So really it seems that the ONLY saving grace for this "new" console from Nintendo is it's input device, and that uniqueness could very well be swept away if MS or SONY come out with their own version of an 'alternative' controller.


Where would that leave Nintendo!? Oh NOES!!!1!

K-Sin
12-06-2005, 09:50 PM
As usual, the Nintendo fanboys come out and defend a company that (once again) way exaggerated what it's console would be able to do. "It's like a souped up Xbox" LOL

I did have a humorous thought...

There really is NOTHING stopping either SONY or MS from coming out with their own 'alternative' controller - something that sort of mimics the Revolution's controller. And it wouldn't be a new idea either - after all, all those "dancing" games had a special mats. THere have been light guns in the past. And Microsoft (or maybe it was Logitech) came out with a gaming device for PCs that sort of functioned like the Rev controller - and this was many years ago.

So really it seems that the ONLY saving grace for this "new" console from Nintendo is it's input device, and that uniqueness could very well be swept away if MS or SONY come out with their own version of an 'alternative' controller.


Where would that leave Nintendo!? Oh NOES!!!1!
Nintendo has the rights to that controllers mechanics. I'm having trouble thinking of another way to an 'alternative' controller?

K-Sin
12-06-2005, 09:54 PM
If you like cutesy anime style crap you really should get a Gamecube.
reasons why:
-Eternal darkness (lots of cute stuff there)
-Resident evil (I looove zombies! they're soo cudly)
-LoZ Twilight Princess (I think the new link looks soo much cudlier than the last)
-Metroid Prime (who could ever want to hurt a cutel green slimey evil alien)

(to name some of the other games that appeared on the other consoles as well and GC)
-Mortal kombat
-Splintercell
-Killer 7
-Metal Gear Solid
-Hitman

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 10:01 PM
As usual, the Nintendo fanboys come out and defend a company that (once again) way exaggerated what it's console would be able to do. "It's like a souped up Xbox" LOL

I did have a humorous thought...

There really is NOTHING stopping either SONY or MS from coming out with their own 'alternative' controller - something that sort of mimics the Revolution's controller. And it wouldn't be a new idea either - after all, all those "dancing" games had a special mats. THere have been light guns in the past. And Microsoft (or maybe it was Logitech) came out with a gaming device for PCs that sort of functioned like the Rev controller - and this was many years ago.

So really it seems that the ONLY saving grace for this "new" console from Nintendo is it's input device, and that uniqueness could very well be swept away if MS or SONY come out with their own version of an 'alternative' controller.


Where would that leave Nintendo!? Oh NOES!!!1!

Lol this isnt a true Nintendo thread unless you have one of Hazdaz comments. hi haz how u doing? anyway i dont think at any time nintendo said that the graphics would be better than ps3 or xbox 360 nope i dont remember them saying that, so then they havnt really exaggerated anything really have they ? no i dont think they have.

Hazdaz
12-06-2005, 10:03 PM
Nintendo has the rights to that controllers mechanics. I'm having trouble thinking of another way to an 'alternative' controller?
Ofcourse the have the rights to that controller design.

But that doesn't mean anything - like I mentioned above, there were input devices for the PC that were fairly similiar to what the Rev controller looks like. Any type of alternative input device that had an unconventional layout could strike a huge blow to Nintendo new console, since it wouldn't be unique anymore.

I could just picture it now... when HALO3 comes out, they also launch their own special input device that has tilt sensors or is held unlike a regular controller and gives a more 'realistic' feal within the game. That would total hurt Nintendo.

Nichod
12-06-2005, 10:05 PM
I'm not a fanboy of nintendo in fact I rarely have time to play games. But I have a son. And buying a nintendo ensures I won't have to worry about him wanting sexified and overly violent games for it...since there aren't any or are very few. (yes I know there are parental controls for the other consoles, but I'd rather there just be no games) Plus from what I've seen nintendo has a lot more available games. I bought him a gamecube and the connection for gameboy games. Plus nintendo games usually seem better priced and the reviews seem to be about the same for nintendo versions of games.

I will likely purchase the revolution for him as well. With online access to old games, the gamecube games, and the new revolution games, I don't think any of the other companies can compete with the available quality/quantity of games nintendo will have. Plus my son is excited about the new controller more than anything the other two consoles have, he says its more of the same. My son is 14 years old. All his friends feel the sameway. Anyway thats my take on all this.

UrbanFuturistic
12-06-2005, 10:09 PM
Riiiiight.

OK, so I'm not overly impressed with the scant details released of the NintyRev (I'm personally favouring the XBox360 ATM, soon as they iron out the release problems). I mean, when they went on about 'it's not about the graphics but the gameplay' I was kinda hoping they'd throw in one of those new AI hardware chips or something.

But then, at the extreme end of the scale Pixelmonk and Hazdaz seem to have a hatred for Nintendo that obscures any critical analysis. I mean, sure, the big N have made a few big mistakes (the whole cartridge thing with the N64, the GameCube) but that's still no reason for a "Nintendo suxxors" attitude and yes, that's exactly the feeling I'm getting from you two I mean, can we have a little maturity 'round here? I'm a 'hates Microsoft loves Linux' type but I can still be man enough to say "actually, I think the 360's quite a nice piece of kit" but every time there's a pro Nintendo post on here I feel I should be running a pool before one of you posts a derogatory comment.

I mean seriously:As usual, the Nintendo fanboys come out and defend a company that (once again) way exaggerated what it's console would be able to do. "It's like a souped up Xbox" LOLWhat, Nintendo are exaggerating when they say the Rev will be more powerful than the original X-Box? I mean, not the 360, but the years old one? So Nintendo basically admit their console will be the least powerful and your reaction is "ohh, ook at the hype, they're exaggerating again!". Wow. I don't feel that was at all pavlovian.

Seriously guys, chill.

regards, Paul

K-Sin
12-06-2005, 10:09 PM
Ofcourse the have the rights to that controller design.

But that doesn't mean anything - like I mentioned above, there were input devices for the PC that were fairly similiar to what the Rev controller looks like. Any type of alternative input device that had an unconventional layout could strike a huge blow to Nintendo new console, since it wouldn't be unique anymore.

I could just picture it now... when HALO3 comes out, they also launch their own special input device that has tilt sensors or is held unlike a regular controller and gives a more 'realistic' feal within the game. That would total hurt Nintendo.
I understood you quite well. But I would still like to know what OTHER input devices they could use?

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 10:12 PM
I could just picture it now... when HALO3 comes out, they also launch their own special input device that has tilt sensors or is held unlike a regular controller and gives a more 'realistic' feal within the game. That would total hurt Nintendo.

You sound like you want nintendo to get hurt, why why why? do you want to see Iwata and shigsy cry? why? what could they have possibly done to you?:sad:
Anyway that would just prove what nintendo have said all along, they aim to change the way games are played, I think eventually other console makers would like to copy the revo controller, and this is as nintendo predicted, in the same way other companies copied allot of other nintendo features, believe it or not there is probably no game console out there that has not been influenced by nintendo. So there you have it, Nintendo are leaders in innovation there can be no mistake about it. and no nintendo wont get hurt because they have an army of mutant pokemon protecting there headquaters.

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 10:14 PM
I'm not a fanboy of nintendo in fact I rarely have time to play games. But I have a son. And buying a nintendo ensures I won't have to worry about him wanting sexified and overly violent games for it...since there aren't any or are very few. (yes I know there are parental controls for the other consoles, but I'd rather there just be no games) Plus from what I've seen nintendo has a lot more available games. I bought him a gamecube and the connection for gameboy games. Plus nintendo games usually seem better priced and the reviews seem to be about the same for nintendo versions of games.

I will likely purchase the revolution for him as well. With online access to old games, the gamecube games, and the new revolution games, I don't think any of the other companies can compete with the available quality/quantity of games nintendo will have. Plus my son is excited about the new controller more than anything the other two consoles have, he says its more of the same. My son is 14 years old. All his friends feel the sameway. Anyway thats my take on all this.

some very good points there

erilaz
12-06-2005, 10:27 PM
Are you lot even LISTENING to yourselves argue about this? Everyone has their opinion on what makes a good or bad game. We all have individual tastes.

But that ends up being the point of the whole issue. It's not whether a system has three CPUS or a gyroscopic controller with touch sensitivity, it's about how enjoyable the damn games are.

I would rather buy a console that I knew was going to keep me thoroughly entertained, and the only reason I buy a console is when I know a game I'll love is coming out on it. Am I a nintendo fanboy? Hell yes. I'm a mario/zelda lover. Always will be, because they've never let me down. Does that mean the buck stops here? No. I still have my shiny PS2, I still play on my PC.

I've bought a DS for one reason... the games rock. I have yet to buy a PSP because the games for it in Australia are sub-par. I'll buy one when there is something worthwhile to play.

Will I buy a revolution? How should I know, if I don't even know what's going to be on it yet? It's the same with the PS3 and Xbox. Until a decently reviewed lineup of games come out for all systems it's a moot point over what is gimmicky and what is successful.

I for one would rather be enjoying games than bickering over technical specifications.

EDIT: While I was typing this, some of you posted some valid and reasonable thoughts. This is not directed at you!!:)

K-Sin
12-06-2005, 10:32 PM
Ofcourse the have the rights to that controller design.

But that doesn't mean anything - like I mentioned above, there were input devices for the PC that were fairly similiar to what the Rev controller looks like. Any type of alternative input device that had an unconventional layout could strike a huge blow to Nintendo new console, since it wouldn't be unique anymore.

I could just picture it now... when HALO3 comes out, they also launch their own special input device that has tilt sensors or is held unlike a regular controller and gives a more 'realistic' feal within the game. That would total hurt Nintendo.
Actually your right, IF xbox release an UNCONVENTIONAL controller they COULD strike a huge blow to nintendo. But they won't, they're too money hungry to risk it. Same with PS, if fact Nintendo are the only ones risking it.

Hazdaz
12-06-2005, 10:33 PM
I don't hate Nintendo, but I do hate their recent business decisions... They piss me off with what seems like bilking their (too) loyal fanbase to make a quick buck. SO many of these people grew up with Nintendo and would blindly buy a turd as long as it had a Nintendo logo on it.

Not sure if this was posted on this forum or not, but enough already Nintendo with resting on your god damn laurels and come out with something new. (and the Rev's controller is a potential start, but should have been mated to a system closer in power to the competition)

Behold, GameBoy revision number 12,923. :rolleyes:


http://micro.gameboy.com/20thAnniversary_800.jpg
And concerning the Rev, it seems like it is totaly a one trick pony, that if MS or SONY smarten-up and come out with their own design for a different controller could totaly put Nintendo's pony out to pasture.

And I said in a previous thread that I think Nintendo's new controller sounds interesting (and creative), but at the same time I also said it could very well turn into a total gimmick. I am not a fan of a brand new console that has essentially the same power as the 4 year old XB1 sitting in my living room right now, but it's ONE claim to fame is a gimmick (or potentially, a gimmick). Doesn't seem that Nintendo is trying to hard.

...but maybe if they come out with a gold and red-colored Revolution, I'll run out and buy it. :rolleyes:

erilaz
12-06-2005, 10:49 PM
Oh that's right, because Sony doesn't rerelease their consoles either...

http://www.bennettsonline.co.uk/images/supplier/products/sony/22810601.jpghttp://fp.scea.com/Content/support/troubleshooting/psone/images/psone_lg.gif

http://www.vgamers.de/screenshots/ps2n/comparison.jpg

UrbanFuturistic
12-06-2005, 10:57 PM
Yes, I too hate Nintendo's recent business decisions (except for the DS, it's actually quite good, I like American Sk8land). I too am sceptical regarding the Revolution and I do believe I posted something about Nintendo pulling a biiig rabbit out of a teeny hat when all the pre-any-details hype was around but there's justified criticism and bashing and whether you like it or not what you posted doesn't fall into the category of 'justified criticism'.

I mean, look at the part of your post I quoted, doesn't that look overly reactionary when you go back and look at it again? Seriously, you've crossed over from 'I'm not sure Nintendo know what they're doing' to making statements that are demonstrably untrue.

Sit back, take a breather and assess your point of view.

regards, Paul

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 11:17 PM
Behold, GameBoy revision number 12,923. :rolleyes:



Dont mock the gameboy micro, it is a thing of beauty, with the play yan peripheral you see that the systems true beauty come to life before your very eyes, behold a very blurry image of me enjoying episodes of avatar on my Gameboy micro, it can also play mp3s and view images, and is small enuff to be called a true portable, but in no way does it sacrifice gameplay for its good looks.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c178/lastchild7/DSC01482.jpg

tozz
12-06-2005, 11:29 PM
All this talk about innovation, I want to know what was innovative with Gamecube :)
I really don't see it, it's been Mario milking since the Nes, and sure, it's fun to play old games again, but when you have it as a selling point, do you really want to be innovative? "Hey look at us, buy a new console and you can play old games."
I played alot of Mario back in the days too, and I enjoyed it, but nothing has changed since then and I dunno this poking stick will change much :)

Bring back Sega and the Dreamcast, those were the glory days of gaming :D

laureato di arte
12-06-2005, 11:52 PM
All this talk about innovation, I want to know what was innovative with Gamecube :)

Gamecube wasnt meant to be innovative, it was meant to be an update of the n64 so it was an evolution not a revolution.

Hazdaz
12-07-2005, 12:04 AM
Gamecube wasnt meant to be innovative, it was meant to be an update of the n64 so it was an evolution not a revolution.
And that right there is the problem with Nintendo.


Oh by the way, are they coming out with Mario Kart version 15 yet? :rolleyes:


Oh, and by the way, how well does that GB Micro play MP3s? How much does that adapter cost? And ofcourse it is a seperate adapter, cuz lord knows Nintendo wouldn't actually add a cool feature like that all by itself.

SalmonGod
12-07-2005, 12:12 AM
Gamecube is the first system they've ever come out with that didnt have any serious innovations involved... they've been in the business for how long and it's the first one!!!... so how justified are you people for bashing it?...

I'm positive that Sony and Microsoft will come out with alternative controller technologies... but it will happen the same way it's happened every single past generation... they will let Nintendo test the water first... see how the market reacts... and then capitalize on their observations... Nintendo has ALWAYS been the leader in this regard... they get tons of criticism every time they come out with a new idea but they still push it forward and most of the time it's successful and the rest of the industry follows suit, but not until they know it's safe... I respect the hell out of Nintendo for being one of very few risk takers in the industry

and Smash Bros: Melee single-handedly justifies the gamecube in my eyes... that game is practically a religion among my family and friends... I personally consider it to be the greatest masterpiece of game design that I've been exposed to... the ultimate example of "easy to learn, difficult to master"

and homophobia or a fear of bright colors is also not a justified criticism of Nintendo... if you can get past the fact that they aim to be all-inclusive (content suitable for children, gameplay deep enough for adults) then the games are actually quite fun... and that's just their first party games... they dont limit the content of 3rd parties

SalmonGod
12-07-2005, 12:15 AM
And that right there is the problem with Nintendo.


Oh by the way, are they coming out with Mario Kart version 15 yet? :rolleyes:


Oh, and by the way, how well does that GB Micro play MP3s? How much does that adapter cost? And ofcourse it is a seperate adapter, cuz lord knows Nintendo wouldn't actually add a cool feature like that all by itself.

haz... every other company has tons of sequels too... dead point...

and PSP has 3 times as many peripherals lined up for it than the Micro does... also a dead point

laureato di arte
12-07-2005, 12:19 AM
And that right there is the problem with Nintendo.


Oh by the way, are they coming out with Mario Kart version 15 yet? :rolleyes:


Oh, and by the way, how well does that GB Micro play MP3s? How much does that adapter cost? And ofcourse it is a seperate adapter, cuz lord knows Nintendo wouldn't actually add a cool feature like that all by itself.


Ok Haz have you been reading my posts? pls go back and read them... it plays them as well as any other mp3 player does, the adapter is about 35 pounds. Go on you know you want one.

Hazdaz
12-07-2005, 12:34 AM
Ok Haz have you been reading my posts? pls go back and read them... it plays them as well as any other mp3 player does, the adapter is about 35 pounds. Go on you know you want one.

See. that is why I don't like Nintendo.

Why couldn't they INNOVATE and include an MP3 player (let alone a video player) with the Micro?? Why? After all, the played-out GBA hardware was developed eons ago - which means that it also should be insanely cheap for Nintendo to manufacture (cuz all the R&D and engineering was essentially paid for last Millenium). They COULD have given their loyal fans a nice present by including some of that stuff, since after all, the Micro doesn't include any other new features beyond the other 50 versions of the GB.
But ofcourse they didn't. Let me guess... in 6 months, they will come out with the GB Micro Plus that includes an MP3 player... then 6 months after that, they will come out with the GB Micro Plus Plus which can also play videos.

Oh, and if I didn't already own a GBA - you know, the FIRST one that didn't include a backlit screen and was essentially useless - I seriously would consider buying one.

Do you then have to buy a seperate memory card?? Or does that include already some amount of meomry to store songs??

Zarf
12-07-2005, 12:35 AM
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050404.jpg

I think that says it rather nicely.

If you dont want the Revolution, dont buy it. If you dont want the 360, dont buy. It you dont want the PS3, dont buy it.

Have fun with your toys.

Cheers,
Xarf (who will probably be buying a gamecube, yes a gamecube this winter.)

deadplant155
12-07-2005, 12:43 AM
now please, i'm serious here. what is everyone's problem with the gamecube?....i mean, even the rabid nintendo fanboys are talking like it was a dissapointment. i wasn't on these forums when it came out to let you all form my opinions for me, but i really really like mine, and have since i bought it. we have a ps2 and an xbox too, and the only game i play for xbox is halo (well, halo 2 too). the only reason we bought the ps2 was for final fantasy, and we actually use it for ps1 games more often than any of the crap they put out now. the gamecube on the other hand, has better graphics than the ps2, we have more than 20 games for it, can't remember exactly how many, and i've never gotten bored with the thing, the graphics are great even today. i mean, sure the xbox can play some dvds, but i just bought a dvd player for that, why would i want my GAMING SYSTEM to do that too?....and our playstation's been sent back to sony twice now with defects, and it won't even play some games or movies. back to the gamecube, is it the design, size, handle, color options, what? I honestly have nothing to criticize about the game cube, but it seems like everybody here takes it for granted that no one liked it.....and what's all this about nintendo making kid games? i mean, it seems to me that the teenage boys are more likely to play "GTA:Yup Another ReHash" than they are animal crossing or mario kart, final fantasy chrystal chronicles, nintendogs, zelda wind waker, etcetera. since when did blood and guts and brainless trigger tapping = good game? to me, buying the xbox 360 or ps3 is like buying a new graphics card for my computer, sure, it'll look better, and run a little smoother, but stupid games will still be stupid, they'll just be stupid and good looking. what's the point if they're just more of the same? well, sorry, i'm mostly just rambling now, but i guess my point is, if you want games to stay the exact same and just get a few more polygons and bigger textures then you're headed the right way. I like games to be fun, that's why they're games y'know? i'm sure i'll buy a 360 and a ps3, but I'm actually excited about the revolution.

p.s. oh, and hazdaz, seriously. have you played any nintendo games? no mario kart has been the same as the last, and mario games have changed drastically between each one, usually defining a new genre. and are you suggesting that any sequel is inherently bad? uh, yeah....

deadplant155
12-07-2005, 12:48 AM
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/050404.jpg

I think that says it rather nicely.

If you dont want the Revolution, dont buy it. If you dont want the 360, dont buy. It you dont want the PS3, dont buy it.

Have fun with your toys.

Cheers,
Xarf (who will probably be buying a gamecube, yes a gamecube this winter.)
ditto :D

ambient-whisper
12-07-2005, 12:52 AM
you're missing the point.. the size of the drive matters as kids (and adults) wouldn't mind using their gaming system for something other than playing games. So your whole paragraph was fluff. Carry on.


funny, because pretty much everyone i know, stops watching movies/etc on their consoles because those functionalities are the first things to break on consoles. i had that with my ps2. as soon as your movies cant be played back properly on your system, you know that you have about 1 year left out of your console.

nice thing about nintendo is that they make systems for kids. ( meaning durable ). the other systems are a bunch of pansies as far as hardware goes.

( i still have the ps2 tho, cuz theres plenty of killer games for it :D )

Hazdaz
12-07-2005, 01:01 AM
...those functionalities are the first things to break on consoles.

Break? How is DVD playback going to "break"??? The only DVD player (welll besides my computer) I have is my XB (which was bought on launch day) and thank god for that, cuz I don't see the need for a seperate unit when all I had to do was buy a $10 remote.

ambient-whisper
12-07-2005, 01:09 AM
dont ask me man. all i know is that my first ps2 ( and a few of my friends ps2s as well ( and one of my friends xbox ) the movie playback ability just stopped being reliable over time. it got to the point where movies couldnt be played back. then, the console became picky with games, and then wouldnt play games at all. happened to many people around me, including myself. the laser readers seem to get weaker overtime on sony drives.

and all of it is due to sony being un-capable of making a single decent cd/dvd rom drive. ( ive had 4 different sony drives over time and they all die the same death. ive also had a 2 panasonic drives of which one lasted 10 years, and the other 5. they both also had much much more play time compared to my sony drives. )

why the xbox drive broke for a friend of mine, i dont know. it was one of the first gen ones though, so it was bound to break easy.

DevilHacker
12-07-2005, 01:24 AM
If only Sega would re-enter the hardware market…
If only…
:D

DuttyFoot
12-07-2005, 01:35 AM
i find it interesting how nintendo gets bashed because they have another version of mario kart or mario bros for that matter. what game console dosen't have sequels. look at metal gear for example, it was out for the nes and yet you still see it being redone over and over for the playstation1,2, and 3. sequels will never die

I will definately get a revolution because i love nes games. i own an xbox and i only have 7 games for it. i am sure i will eventually get a 360 when they have some original games, or some good games worth paying for.

man its like the word nintendo is taboo or something...lol
i love reading the responses because they are so funny. we sit here bickering about the technical stuff, but in the end its the gameplay that counts.

peace

rakmaya
12-07-2005, 02:02 AM
All these arguements make no sense. Some of you are blaming the wrong people and we are too early to make a decision on how Nintendo's Controller will effect the next gen.

1). Games on Playstation and Xbox is made by developers
2). MS and Sony makes sure that they do their part in giving the developers the best possible system to stand the test of time in terms of power
3). If the developers want to use the power, it is there.
4). If they s%%k at making games, they will fall out soon. But if they need potential to pull out a better gaming experience, it is their in both 360 and PS3.

That is all there to it. In case of Nintendo, they understand games from a different perspective. Whether they like it or not, Power is going to be a very important factor in developing in the next gen more than it did so before. Power doesn't mean graphics, it means Physics, Dynamics, Effects, which all makes the game more fun and real time. Graphics might not be the biggest concern, but the overall power of the system to pull off other things that are CPU intesive will be a major driving force.

A nice controller can do a lot of things to a game. Like CPU power, it can also trigger the simulations an ultimate gamer wants. How extend that will go cannot be said now. But MS and Sony ensured that the developers have enough CPU and GPU power to bring out the best. Some do and some don't.

rakmaya
12-07-2005, 02:09 AM
funny, because pretty much everyone i know, stops watching movies/etc on their consoles because those functionalities are the first things to break on consoles. i had that with my ps2. as soon as your movies cant be played back properly on your system, you know that you have about 1 year left out of your console.



All in all, I had to buy 2 DVD players in the last 4 years. Compared to that my PS2 was a better investment, even if only played nice for first 2 years.:shrug:


( i still have the ps2 tho, cuz theres plenty of killer games for it :D )

That is exactly why it was a better investment for me than the first DVD player I bought.:)

nofosu
12-07-2005, 02:11 AM
Wow Hazdaz, i must say like laureato di arte (member.php?u=179466) has mentioned, every nintendo post, and u r definatley there bashing. I seriously can not take ur opinion seriously at all. i don't care wot you say, i think some one from nintendo stole your girlfriend so since then u have hated them ever since. All my time as a gamer (close to 14 years) i have never met someone like you, who talks such negetivty about a games company. You say nintendo spew out rehashes of all thier games. Go to any gaming website or any one who has actually played Nintendo's 1st party games and you will not find one person who dosn't actually like them or say they are just more of the same thing.(and don't try and tell me you have played them, because u obviosly haven't). like someone mentioned earlier, any new zelda, mario, mario cart, ever released has never been the same as the previous, they always build up on it and completly evolve, the platformer, action adventer, kart racer.....genres. I don't understand how u can have so much negativity towards a company who have actually aided this industry we love so much to move forward. Those anolgog sticks u use to play halo so lovingly, were created by the company u show so much disrespect to, talk about biting the hand that feeds u:shrug:. U have not had one valid critism apart from maybe all the remakes of the gba, but u don't have to buy it if u don't want to. Don't concern ur self with the people who keep buying every version it does not effect you in any way. May be the new rev controller won't be the way forward to gaming or maybe it will, its still a step in the right direction, and that in it self should be apreciated. With all the things u say about nintendo, have you looked at the things sony and Microsoft have been doing/done?, Nintendo in no way can be put in a catogory beneath or even close to these two money greedy Corporations. i am not a nintendo fanboy, i am a GAMING fanboy, and nintendo have catered to a lot of my gaming needs. i beleiev all the 3 diferent conoles will have thiere own benefits when it comes to games
just wait and relax, we will be well rewarde(I hope anyway hehehe.). as a gamer i am very exited by the potential of a new way to play game.



Hazdaz and the other guy(sorry forgot your name just can't be bothered to be looking through the thread again to find you) relax, u are really not saying much about your self the way you rant. its getting very hard to take ur opinion seriously? just think b4 u start bashing and offer some proper critique:thumbsup:


All in all people, we are at a stage where by graphics already look beutifull and anything better is a bonus, but lets start getting some kick ass games

laureato di arte
12-07-2005, 02:43 AM
More Revolution Specs Uncovered
Developers come forward to reveal new performance details on Nintendo's next-generation console.
by Matt Casamassina (http://revolution.ign.com/email.html)

December 6, 2005 - Just yesterday IGN Revolution launched with technical details on Nintendo's next-generation console (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/673/673578p1.html), codenamed Revolution. And today more development sources have come forward with both clarification and even more tech specs. The latest news begins to paint a clearer picture of Nintendo's aim with its next platform.

We cannot stress this enough: Revolution is not being positioned as a competitor to either Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3. Nintendo has instead chosen to design a console that will be very affordable for consumers. For that very reason, say developers in the know, the Big N has opted out of filling the system with a massive supply of expensive RAM. In yesterday's article, we wrote that Revolution would include 128MBs of RAM, or possibly less. Developers have clarified the makeup based on officially released Nintendo documentation. Revolution will build on GameCube's configuration of 24MBs 1T-SRAM and 16MBs D-RAM (40MBs) by adding an addition 64MBs of 1T-SRAM. The result is a supply of memory in Revolution that totals 104MBs. That number does not consider either the 512MBs of allegedly accessible (but hardly ideal) Flash RAM or the Hollywood GPU's on-board memory, said to be 3MBs by sources.

Revolution's Broadway CPU, developed by IBM, is an extension of the Gekko CPU in GameCube, according to official Nintendo documentation passed to us by software houses. The Hollywood GPU, meanwhile, is believed to be an extension of the Flipper GPU in GameCube. Since developers have not gone hands-on with the GPU, they can only go on Nintendo documentation, which is limited.

Exact clock rates were not disclosed, but one development source we spoke to had this to say of the Revolution CPU and GPU: "Basically, take a GameCube, double the clock rate of the CPU and GPU and you're done."

We presented that description to another informed studio, which clarified that the clock rates may even fall short of doubling those on GameCube.

"The CPU is the same as Gekko with one and a half to two times the performance and improved caching," said a source. "Our guys experimented with it and think they'll be able to get about twice the performance as GameCube."

"It's a gamble for the Big N," said another source. "It's not about horsepower for them -- it's about innovation and gameplay."



http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/673/673799/more-revolution-specs-uncovered-20051206015328017.jpg We've also been able to unearth firm details on the storage capacity for Revolution discs. Recent rumors suggesting that the discs can hold 12GBs of data are false. In fact, Revolution discs can store 4.7GBs of data on a single layer or 8.5GBs when double-layered on a single-side. This is a massive jump from the 1.5GB capacity of GameCube discs and more than enough storage capacity for any non-high-definition game. Readers discouraged by Revolution's seeming lack of horsepower when compared to Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 should remember that Nintendo is not interested in competing in the high-definition gaming arena, and as a standard-definition console, Revolution is more than capable. Capcom's Resident Evil 4 remains one of the most gorgeous games this generation and it ran on GameCube, a console at least half as powerful according to developer reports.

Software houses we spoke with also waxed on the immediate advantage to Nintendo's approach with Revolution, which is, of course, system price. Every developer was in agreement that Revolution should launch with a price tag of $149 or lower. Some speculated that based on the tech, a $99 price point would not be out of the question.

Stay tuned for more as it develops.

Hazdaz
12-07-2005, 02:58 AM
^^^
:banghead::banghead:

Wow what a disapointement - those specs sound like they should be for a portable, not a home system.

And for those that are saying that I am negative about N and how it isn't about graphics, but about gameplay.... well since ya don't wanna hear the truth that your Nintendo is resting on it's laurels, I will add one more thing in this thread...

There is NOTHING stopping a game developer from focusing all of their budget and time on gameplay for a game for the XB360 or PS3... it's just a simple fact that with those 2 systems you can have the gorgeous graphics AND great gameplay.

laureato di arte
12-07-2005, 03:12 AM
^^^
:banghead::banghead:

Wow what a disapointement - those specs sound like they should be for a portable, not a home system.

And for those that are saying that I am negative about N and how it isn't about graphics, but about gameplay.... well since ya don't wanna hear the truth that your Nintendo is resting on it's laurels, I will add one more thing in this thread...

There is NOTHING stopping a game developer from focusing all of their budget and time on gameplay for a game for the XB360 or PS3... it's just a simple fact that with those 2 systems you can have the gorgeous graphics AND great gameplay.

good thing you aint a developer then !

ShadowHunter
12-07-2005, 03:16 AM
I think the target audience of the Revolution is families, or in other words: casual (or less) gamers. As such a $99 price tag will put it into a huge target audince that otherwise simply would not even cosider buying a gaming machine. I think it's going to be a party machine where friends and family can easily pick up the controller and play together. Most games will probably make a point of being easy to get a hang of in under a minute.

As such I can see that most members of this forum will be disappointed becuase the more than casual gamer wants an epic story, great graphics, MMORPGs etc. The revolution does not seem to be made for such games. Think of it as a party machine with an enourmous database of Nintendo games ligned up all the way back when.

If marketed to the right audience this could really take off and surpass the Xbox & PS in terms of sales. Or it could bomb horribly. It's wait and see as always :thumbsup:

PhilOsirus
12-07-2005, 04:27 AM
It's a Nintendo product, it won't cost a lot, and it looks "friendly" even to non-gamers, which in my opinion will make it a good seller by attracting a lot of non-gamers, especially parents.

SalmonGod
12-07-2005, 04:35 AM
I admit to being a fan-boy... I dont know why this is a bad thing... I respect Nintendo's history, I'm grateful for alll the things they've given me, and I recognize that they are still fighting to hold on to their reputation... it pains me to see all the narrow-minded criticism they have been recieving over the last few years... most of it just because people are discouraged by the lack of adult content... which I think is silly

I take up this fight so passionately because it does matter... Nintendo is at a turning point where their influence in the market is diminishing and their lack of support is beginning to deny them their ability to provide gamers like me with the quality they've delivered in the past... the greatest example being their lack of 3rd part support...

the day they stop making consoles is probably the day I'll stop playing consoles... not to say that there arent alot of great games on Sony's systems (and Microsoft is.... getting there...) but I'll just be that damn bitter about it... I cant deny it

so I'm not just childishly arguing for the sake of arguing as that comic would suggest... I'm defending my prosperity as a gamer

scorpion007
12-07-2005, 05:09 AM
Just a side note on Nintendo's innovation: Did you know that the first game ever that allowed you to 'save' your progress was Zelda 1 on the NES?

Womball
12-07-2005, 05:12 AM
Nintendo has been around for 100 years (Hanafuda <sic> cards) I don't think they are going anywhere. And if you look at the Nintendo DS (same as my intials, biddy biddy biddy) its gaining a lot of support from developers and gamers. The developers seem to enjoy taking advantage of the systems unique abilities and are able to make unique games which aren't possible on other systems. I think the Revolution will be the same. BTW I found this ign article to not reveal much info on the technical aspects. Although in the end it comes down to game. A next-gen Duck Hunt would be cool, especially if you could shoot the dog.

DaJuice
12-07-2005, 05:38 AM
Nothing against Nintendo but... those specs kinda suck. Hope it's just BS.

Ariel
12-07-2005, 07:34 AM
yep, it's all about the games. Look at the PSP and look at the DS. Which is the 'better' system? Maybe the PSP is more powerful..but all I know is that I had it for a week, got tired of it and returned it. Got a DS Later on, and this year I've bought more games for that darn little thing than I have for PC, Xbox, Gamecube and PS2..combined.

Nintendo is taking the 'Apple' approach and that is a very smart thing to do. There are many mp3 players out there that are way better than an Ipod, but for some reason, people just want to go with the simplicity that Apple offers. That is because they are designing a product for the non-geek, or for the mainstream. Hardcore gamers are just a small percentage of the total potential customer base for Nintendo. All they are doing is targeting a different audience.. if it works like I think it will, Nintendo won't be going anywhere.

After seeing what the 360 has to offer (which is better than last gen, but nothing really new..just bigger and better), I am really looking forward to the Revolution. If it's anything like the DS, it will be a huge success, wether hardcore gamers like it or not. The fact that it will be much cheaper and possibly more fun than the other 2 consoloes, will make it extremely attractive to many people. I can see a lot of people buying either a 360 or a PS3..for the graphics, HDTV support, etc. AND a Revolution, for its uniqueness and new gameplay features.

atzfratz
12-07-2005, 08:11 AM
^^^
:banghead::banghead:

Wow what a disapointement - those specs sound like they should be for a portable, not a home system.

And for those that are saying that I am negative about N and how it isn't about graphics, but about gameplay.... well since ya don't wanna hear the truth that your Nintendo is resting on it's laurels, I will add one more thing in this thread...

There is NOTHING stopping a game developer from focusing all of their budget and time on gameplay for a game for the XB360 or PS3... it's just a simple fact that with those 2 systems you can have the gorgeous graphics AND great gameplay.

Well, i think developers usually are people who like gaming as well and beside higher resolution the next gen consoles offer nothing new for them. But if you think of a swordgame where you actually swing the controller like your sword, golfgames , fishinggames etc. I cant see how a creative person and gamer cant be excited bout that.

Beside MS and Sony are going the dangerous way i think. All that new power, higher polygoncount, bigger textures , dynamics , specular maps, normal maps, all that stuff makes the games so much more expensiv to develop in first place. Who can blame the devs when they simply cant afford to try something new. And all that technical stuff wont stop me from just finding a game boring to play.

I think Nintendo is heading the wright way, it will come down to how much help they wil get from 3rd party devs. Thats the problem with the Cube. There are the best games on it, but its just to much time between the Great games.

parallax
12-07-2005, 08:34 AM
I love Nintendo, but it crystal clear they obviously are fully aware of the fact that they are 2 steps behind. Now they come out saying it won't be positioned as a competitor to PS3 & 360?

It IS a competitor. They know, we know. 6 billion people on this planet know this is supposed to be next-gen, but it is specced as last-gen. This is a weak press release by an innovative company that has been losing ground on every aspect, and will go belly-up if they don't get in touch with the make-or-break demographic that is the adult/male gamer.

I wish it was about gaming, but it hasn't been about innovation and fun since Sega lost their last battle. The only thing gaming is about, is sales, branding, namerecognition and market penetration.

And as everybody knows, SUV's sell better then Hybrids.

atzfratz
12-07-2005, 09:53 AM
i agree with you on that nintendo is aware they cannot compete with MS and Sony when it comes to developing new hardwar cause of all that money behind them. But with a price tag as described before theres nothing that hinders you of owning a nextgen and a revolution. I suppose there wont be any madden, nfl etc titles on it anyway. It will hopefully be just something completly different and when it just looks a little better than RE4 im totally down with that. Mario and co already look great on the Gamecube as well :)

laureato di arte
12-07-2005, 10:07 AM
I love Nintendo, but it crystal clear they obviously are fully aware of the fact that they are 2 steps behind. Now they come out saying it won't be positioned as a competitor to PS3 & 360?

It IS a competitor. They know, we know. 6 billion people on this planet know this is supposed to be next-gen, but it is specced as last-gen. This is a weak press release by an innovative company that has been losing ground on every aspect, and will go belly-up if they don't get in touch with the make-or-break demographic that is the adult/male gamer.

I wish it was about gaming, but it hasn't been about innovation and fun since Sega lost their last battle. The only thing gaming is about, is sales, branding, namerecognition and market penetration.

And as everybody knows, SUV's sell better then Hybrids.

this isnt an official nintendo press relese this boils down to speculation or a guestimate. Since nintendo said that they wont be releasing anymore information until may ign have done some digging, and have spoken to a few anonymous developers.

Aegis Prime
12-07-2005, 10:50 AM
Some interesting opinions here - might as well throw my take into the mix...

I bought a GameCube specifically to play the "exclusive" Resident Evil games and I haven't been disappointed with the system - it's a nice piece of hardware, in terms of the games available to it, they all seem technically superior to the PS2, I've never owned nor used an XBox so I can't comment on whether it's a better machine or not. Nintendo's wireless controller (WaveBird) is a fantastic piece of kit and the compact size of the system is very appealing.

It amazes me that the PS2 has sold as well as it has - prior to getting the 'Cube, I had a Sega Dreamcast which I still think is a criminally underrated system with some fantastic games on it - problem was, it just didn't sell - when the Dreamcast was released, people seemed to waiting for Sony to release the PS2, convinced that it was going to be an order of magnitude more powerful than the Dreamcast - It wasn't - I've yet to see a single game on the PS2 that couldn't have been done equally well on the DC (storage capabilities notwithstanding).

This statement applies equally well to the 'Cube but obviously the developers out there are targeting the systems with the biggest installed user base which means that the PS2 has the largest selection of games (both good and bad) available to it. In terms of risking your company on future projects, many of these developers will now be aiming for the PS3 as their platform of choice simply because there's really good odds that sales-wise it's going to blow everything else out of the water.

Where Nintendo dropped the ball with the 'Cube was in poor development for the system - every time a good Nintendo-developed game was released, the lacklustre sales of the GC spiked - Mario Sunshine and Zelda (plus of course, the Resident Evil exclusives) incited enough interest in the 'Cube to boost sales but not enough of these games were forthcoming - the fact that Super Mario Sunshine was at best a half-hearted evolution of Super Mario 64 didn't help the CG's image either.

The immediate problem that strikes me with the Revolution is that it's going to be even more reliant on first-party titles to make any kind of market impact - developers will be making the majority of their AAA titles for the PS3 - if the (supposed) inferior specs of the Revolution result in inferior ports of these titles (or more likely, even less ports than the GC is currently getting) then it will be up to Nintendo to fill the void for the system to have any impact at all.

Nintendo are on a somewhat risky path with the Revolution - they seem to be setting themselves up to be the "second console of choice" knowing that whatever they do, the PS3 is going to outsell them - they also hope to sell it to people outside of the demographic the PS2, Xbox and GC currently occupies. Whilst the hardware is intruiging and Nintendo's trailer offers a fascinating glimpse into the possibilities of the system, unless it's backed up by a varied range of genuinely original and entertaining Nintendo-developed games then it's going to be a failure.

My $0.02

Nichod
12-07-2005, 11:00 AM
Revolution should launch with a price tag of $149 or lower. Some speculated that based on the tech, a $99 price point would not be out of the question.

That is another reason that I will be buying only a Revolution. Keeping with Nintendo's excellent pricing strategy they realize that its not about horsepower but about affordability and playability. And the post someone made on durability is an excellent point. My son left his gamecube outside in pouring down rain...and I mean pouring. A week of drying out and no problems. The memory card even worked fine. And the wavebird controller receiver was plugged in and has experience no problems. With the recent issues with xbox whether valid or not are another example why nintendo is the better choice.

tozz
12-07-2005, 11:15 AM
Some interesting opinions here - might as well throw my take into the mix...

I bought a GameCube specifically to play the "exclusive" Resident Evil games and I haven't been disappointed with the system - it's a nice piece of hardware, in terms of the games available to it, they all seem technically superior to the PS2, I've never owned nor used an XBox so I can't comment on whether it's a better machine or not. Nintendo's wireless controller (WaveBird) is a fantastic piece of kit and the compact size of the system is very appealing.

It amazes me that the PS2 has sold as well as it has - prior to getting the 'Cube, I had a Sega Dreamcast which I still think is a criminally underrated system with some fantastic games on it - problem was, it just didn't sell - when the Dreamcast was released, people seemed to waiting for Sony to release the PS2, convinced that it was going to be an order of magnitude more powerful than the Dreamcast - It wasn't - I've yet to see a single game on the PS2 that couldn't have been done equally well on the DC (storage capabilities notwithstanding).

This statement applies equally well to the 'Cube but obviously the developers out there are targeting the systems with the biggest installed user base which means that the PS2 has the largest selection of games (both good and bad) available to it. In terms of risking your company on future projects, many of these developers will now be aiming for the PS3 as their platform of choice simply because there's really good odds that sales-wise it's going to blow everything else out of the water.

Where Nintendo dropped the ball with the 'Cube was in poor development for the system - every time a good Nintendo-developed game was released, the lacklustre sales of the GC spiked - Mario Sunshine and Zelda (plus of course, the Resident Evil exclusives) incited enough interest in the 'Cube to boost sales but not enough of these games were forthcoming - the fact that Super Mario Sunshine was at best a half-hearted evolution of Super Mario 64 didn't help the CG's image either.

The immediate problem that strikes me with the Revolution is that it's going to be even more reliant on first-party titles to make any kind of market impact - developers will be making the majority of their AAA titles for the PS3 - if the (supposed) inferior specs of the Revolution result in inferior ports of these titles (or more likely, even less ports than the GC is currently getting) then it will be up to Nintendo to fill the void for the system to have any impact at all.

Nintendo are on a somewhat risky path with the Revolution - they seem to be setting themselves up to be the "second console of choice" knowing that whatever they do, the PS3 is going to outsell them - they also hope to sell it to people outside of the demographic the PS2, Xbox and GC currently occupies. Whilst the hardware is intruiging and Nintendo's trailer offers a fascinating glimpse into the possibilities of the system, unless it's backed up by a varied range of genuinely original and entertaining Nintendo-developed games then it's going to be a failure.

My $0.02
It would be weird if a machine released a couple of years (it was quite a while, or am I mistaken here?) later than the PS2 wasn't techincally superior. The wavebird was excellent, I did miss the rumbling though, but it was flawless when it came to response and battery.

You pretty much sum up the problems I see with Nintendo. They seem to think they can survive soley on their own games (they can, but in what scale). They're targeting people outside the normal gaming world, but they seem to forget that what they're offering is the same they've been offering since the Nes days, Mario and Zelda. Those games didn't cause the people they're targeting to buy before, why will they now?

As you say, Nintendo is selling itself as the second (or even third) console, is this something that attracts third-party developers? (I'm no dev, so I don't know, but as a coder, I wouldn't want to code in a foreign language that wouldn't be implemented). And if they don't get good third party support they will have do everything themself, and we all know, making a good game is something that takes time (where is my f**king Final Fantasy 12 SE!?).

Nichod
12-07-2005, 12:09 PM
I must step in here. As I did a lot of research on the gamecube when I purchased it. People are thinking the gamecube had poor performance. They seem to forget the visually the gamecube was virtually on par on many levels as the xbox and blew the ps2 away. The performance of a console is not dependent on speed and memory but on how the available speed and memory are utilized. Anyway this whole thread is turning into a war between the obcessed nintendo fans and the anti-nintendo group. The fact of the matter is that each console caters to a group. Nintendo will remain in existence because it caters to the low income and younger crowd while still offering some playability to dads and moms. The xbox360 and ps3 are catering to the same age bracket. The only market I'm curiously watching is the DS and PSP. The mobile market is much more interesting to watch. I still have an original gameboy...play tetris and castlevania on it occasionally. Was thinking about getting daddy a micro just not sure that display is large enough....

UrbanFuturistic
12-07-2005, 12:10 PM
Why couldn't they INNOVATE and include an MP3 player (let alone a video player) with the Micro?? Why? After all, the played-out GBA hardware was developed eons ago - which means that it also should be insanely cheap for Nintendo to manufacture (cuz all the R&D and engineering was essentially paid for last Millenium).Well, I guess that's why it costs £112 less than the PSP. That's only 38% of the cost of a PSP. Tell you, at over 2.6 times the cost the PSP had better be a bit better.

GBA Micro £67.99 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0009RWEB2/qid=1133960514/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/202-3590747-2990238)
PSP £179.99 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002S9JAM/qid=1133960538/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/202-3590747-2990238)
Assessing all the facts, priceless. Might want to try it sometime.

regards, Paul

TAMcCullough
12-07-2005, 03:21 PM
Mini-Revolution Link (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php%28que%29id=130854)

This is going to be great. With this possible price point it won't be in competition with the 360 or PS3. It will be in a league of its own. Which I dare say will probably put it ahead of the others.

heavyness
12-07-2005, 04:15 PM
reason #458657 why Nintendo will always be around...

http://www.monoki.com/cmsfiles/links/archives/zelda.jpg

video game related tattoos.

SalmonGod
12-07-2005, 04:16 PM
I've seen that before... one of the coolest, most elaborate tattoos I've ever seen

Aegis Prime
12-07-2005, 04:23 PM
Certainly the price point speculation is interesting although I'm sure the Revolution's unique controller is going to increase manufacturing costs in comparison to regular wired joypads - if they can really bring it in at the cost of two games for the XBox 360 (and, as mentioned in my previous post, with the first-party software support it needs) then they could cause quite a stir - I guess time will tell but I'm really hoping that they pull it off.

Mad tat btw - I guess somebody really loves Zelda :eek:

agreenster
12-07-2005, 04:40 PM
Nothing against Nintendo but... those specs kinda suck. Hope it's just BS.

In the immortal words of Steve Ballmer....Developers developers developers developers!

If the Revolution is slightly better than the current XBox (non 360) then this is a good day for the industry! The LOWEST specs out there for next-gen are still BETTER than the XBox? Thats fantastic! In case you all dont know, unless a game is developed specifically for the XBox, most times it is co-developed for PS2 and Gamecube. What does that mean? It is developed for the lowest common denominator -the PS2- because of development costs. I've even heard of developers purposefully not including high-res textures and geometry for an XBox port, because they dont want the people who bought the PS2 version to feel "ripped off." I'm serious. SO basically, the standard nowadays is STILL the PS2, unless you get an XBox-only game. (they do exist and they are beautiful!) So to have the new lowest common denominator better than the XBox is just great.

To put it in perspective, some PS2 games show 15-20k polys on any given screen, but an XBox can show more like 150-200k polys! That's entirely enough for a good game experience. We just havent had the pleasure of that on many titles in the past because most devlopers design for multiple platforms.

The real problem Nintendo is going to face is convincing developers to design for their wacky controller. Thing is though, Nintendo's business model isnt really for 3rd party development much anymore anyway, so everyone will buy the Revolution for Zelda and Pokemon and whatever and they'll make their money hand over fist. And it will look awesome because it will be better than Xbox and be all revolutionary and shit with their controller and new gameplay ideas. It will be good.

Otherwise, we'll all continue to play the down-to-the-eyelash detail of Halo 360, which plays exactly like Halo 2. :rolleyes: I don't know about you guys, but I've played several new 360 titles, and some of them are really boring. Super high-rez, but boring. 80x more polygons doesnt make up for lack of design and gameplay. I know it is REALLY early, but I suspect the model for some time will be, "make it super detailed, and they will come," which is a shame. I think there is a law of diminishing returns at some point. Maybe a mini game to count the pores on your opponents nose?

itsallgoode9
12-07-2005, 04:57 PM
I think Nintendo is a business genius......don't really feel like writting more, so those are my random thoughts about the subject :thumbsup:

laureato di arte
12-07-2005, 09:44 PM
hi there i am seeing some very informative posts here, keep it up!

EpShot
12-07-2005, 11:44 PM
i'm guessign that nIntendo is bankign on most people buyign the Rev for the same reason i am. Price vs fun ratio. think abuot it, the whole rev is giogn to be teh cost of 2-3 games for the xbox360 or ps3. And if its low specs(relative) then the games are not likely to be very expensive. so you oucld get a xbox360, a couple controllers and games and easily spend, 1000, or get a rev a coulpe controllers and gaems for well under 500. (it seems)

i don't expect the revolution to be many people main system. but if i can afford a sbox360, i can pretty much afford a revolution on the side, and i fully plan on purchasing one. though we'll probably just have revolution and my computer. GRAPHICS!.. i have graphics. i'll get a ps3 when it drops to $200, or i start makign a lot more money.

agreenster
12-07-2005, 11:53 PM
It also depends on how fun the controller is, plain and simple. If it's fun, people will buy it, no matter how gimmicky. Guitar Hero for example...

tozz
12-08-2005, 12:03 AM
Nintendo never had cheap games (more expensive than any other system, well perhaps not Neo Geo) so I think we can be quite certain they will keep this trend.

EpShot
12-08-2005, 12:10 AM
except they're developments wouldn't be as potentialy large as 360 or ps3.
they shuold be abel to undercut the game market, but it doesnt' mean they will.
comparign the development of an unreal3 type game vrs a game like pikmin.
(and i can tell you which one would be more fun ;)

past prices can't be an indicator, since system performace was on par with the other systems, if not better ;)

thats siad, i hope its a bit more powerful. i would be happiest with 2x xbox1 power. plenty for graphics, and still affordable.

Frank Lake
12-08-2005, 12:29 AM
I'm not a fanboy of nintendo in fact I rarely have time to play games. But I have a son. And buying a nintendo ensures I won't have to worry about him wanting sexified and overly violent games for it...since there aren't any or are very few.

ROFL!

That is just soooooo freaking naive! 97-99% of ALL games have violence in them and something tells me that you kid will be bored outta his mind if you only bought him that other 3-1% of games that aren't violent or 'sexified'. Oh I'm sure that he'll enjoy Pong, but only after you feed him a coupla beers first.

*wonders how donkey kong will sell after King Kong shows*

ShadowHunter
12-08-2005, 12:34 AM
At present I don't own any consoles myself. In fact I rarely play games these days. However, for a pricetag around $99... And all of Nintendo's classics I'll be first in line because of nostalgia alone (Super Mario World... Those were the days *sigh*).

I'm sure there are many more people like myslef as well as the huge non-techy consumer demographic that could make the system a success. I agree with the price-fun ratio comment. If the system is really fun to play and for that price, what's not to like? Fun for me means: easy controls and a game that is styilish, light hearted (too many games these days take themselves way too seriously), inventive and tests my reflexes and/or problem solving skills; not my ability to memorize the complicated controls, spells or background stories of the game. You might be inclined to call these kiddy games, I'd disagree, games can be engaging and easy to pick up (I loved the Prince of Persia: SOT because you could just start playing it -- all the moves would be explained in the subtitles -- and it had a great artistic style and some cool puzzles). Clearly the Revolution is not for everyone, but if Nintendo does things right it could be it for a lot of people :D

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 01:33 AM
ROFL!

That is just soooooo freaking naive! 97-99% of ALL games have violence in them and something tells me that you kid will be bored outta his mind if you only bought him that other 3-1% of games that aren't violent or 'sexified'. Oh I'm sure that he'll enjoy Pong, but only after you feed him a coupla beers first.

*wonders how donkey kong will sell after King Kong shows*

I dont think nichod is being naive at all. What do you consider to be violent, mario jumping on a goombas head? or pokemon attacking each other? I think nichod is refering to violent games such as gta, 50 cent bullet proof, ect ect Nintendo makes many family orientated games that are far from boring. on the matter of so called mature content in video games i found a very interesting article that i think you will enjoy readin.

Guns and gore? No it's more Written by Nick Bennett (n_p_bennett@yahoo.co.uk)
http://revo-europe.com/featuresgfx/maturityarticle.jpg

"Simply put, the perception of certain games as immature is wrong-headed." As gamers discuss their favourite pastime on internet forums there is an underlying fault line that results in some debate, an issue which often divides the gaming community – that of maturity. As the industry has grown up (and games players with it) many titles, and developers such as Nintendo, have found themselves pigeonholed as immature and strictly “for the kids”. But how accurate is this view?

Nintendo gamers understand this point better than most – fans of Mario know what it is to be ridiculed for their choice in so-called “kiddy” games. Nintendo’s approach generally has been one of family-friendly entertainment, with little violence (and certainly no realistic depictions). In an industry where Sony and Microsoft have cornered the guns-and-graphics market (which is made up of predominantly teenage males) Nintendo has found itself as the younger kid brother nobody wants to play with – after all, who wants to jump around in colourful, cutesy game worlds or sail a cel-shaded ocean? Everyone knows that such activities are childish compared to counter-terrorist operations or hijacking fast cards in grittily realistic cityscapes, right? Even beyond the teenage market, many older Nintendo gamers in their 20s (this author included) have found that demonstrating the merits of Pikmin or Paper Mario to adult friends more interested in HaloGTA is a hard task. or

With the original PlayStation, Sony rebooted the industry from being the exclusive pursuit of kids, geeks and coders to a multimedia platform that could be enjoyed by anyone, but mostly by a youthful, fashion-conscious audience. Sony had redefined what was cool in the gaming community, and had usurped Nintendo, which was then seen as outdated and childish. Yet it is not just the fact that Sony and increasingly Microsoft (note the recent MTV launch for Xbox 360) have carved out the teenage market for “cool”, “mature” games, leaving Nintendo with Pokemon fans, but that mediocre platformers and film licences often have been excused as being “good for the kids”. Not content with writing off Nintendo classics in the first instance, some “mature” gamers have Mario confused with his inferior clones like Crash Bandicoot, Blinx: The Time Sweeper, and any number of tired film cash-ins.

This is not only inaccurate, but also genuinely unfair to young gamers. Since when were below-average titles condescendingly passed off as suitable for gamers under 12? Are second-rate, technically inept film licences acceptable for the kids? Children are often discerning in their games playing and can tell the difference between a mediocre title and a good one, the perceived maturity or difficulty level of the game notwithstanding. If anyone doubts this then they should think back to their own childhood and the 8-bit or 16-bit games they loved, and consider how many of those titles have since passed into gaming halls of fame. Furthermore, back in that era there was little arbitrary division of games into those that were adult and those that were for children. Nowadays it seems that sex and violence define a game’s maturity and those titles that have a cartoon-style are seen as immature. To use a movie analogy, rating violence and nu-metal soundtracks as “mature” and conversely mocking Nintendo for its colourful, family-friendly approach is akin to ranking the tedium of brainless actioner xXx as “grown-up” when compared to the subtlety and brilliance of Toy Story or Finding Nemo.

Nintendo has struggled to shrug off this “immature” label, and has made only a handful of concerted efforts in this generation to change this perception – for example, Capcom coming on board for the Resident Evil series, and the forthcoming “realistic” The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Yet the view remains the same, with Nintendo pilloried as being both babyish and an industry dinosaur. In the same spirit of trying to have it both ways, the teenage boy market playing Need for Speed: Underground and FIFA Street can deride the cartoon-style of Nintendo, and yet hype up the next cartoon-style game from former Nintendo associate Rare.

Perhaps that last comment was unfair, but it points to an underlying truth – simply put, the perception of certain games as immature is wrong-headed. The reality is that many of the dark, violent games favoured by younger males, teenagers and gamers in their 20s are depressingly juvenile and superficial, whereas there is greater depth and thought in the colorful worlds of Nintendo games. Whether it is edgy extreme sports games, street racers or shooters, Nintendo has them all beat for richness. The artistic brilliance of The Legend of Zelda, the bright humour of Paper Mario, or the tongue-in-cheek political commentary of Pikmin 2 – Nintendo finds depth in its games, infusing its titles with maturity. It is hard to do any of those mentioned games justice within the limits of this article: each one deserves consideration and praise in its own right (see my other articles on the politics of Pikmin, or the Celtic themes of The Wind Waker). Yet the fact that games forums are often alive with talk about favourite characters and scenes from Zelda games, or discussions of favourite endings or immersive moments, tells a story in itself. This goes beyond the level of shooters and racing games.

Those games rely on a disingenuous ploy, marketing guns, gangsters and graphics to a teenage male audience all too ready to accept this as adult – unsurprisingly and understandably, as we all attempted to grow out of childish habits and reach adulthood at this time. An 18-rated game packed with violence is a milestone to reach for, to be old enough and mature enough to attain it, even though that violent game is aimed cynically at those too young to legally buy it. There is little maturity in the Grand Theft Auto series; though technically exceptional the game has no moral compass, and a wry nod to the American gangster films that inspired it provide the only fleeting moments of humour. Admittedly, perhaps Rockstar designed GTA to be deliberately immature, in keeping with the cynical nature of the game. Among many gamers there has arisen the view that somehow violence equals realism, though the over-the-top nature of some violent games seems to betray this argument. The less said about po-faced, dour shooters that saturate the industry, and clumsy, awkward attempts to make gaming seem cool, the better – this holds true for the industry’s at times crassly misogynist and racist attitude, a related issue that warrants a feature, or simply just a condemnation, in itself.

Moreover, efforts to subvert the Nintendo approach – best demonstrated by the recent Conker: Live and Reloaded, Rare’s imitation of the Japanese developer’s recognisable gameplay hooks, but with the addition of “adult humour” – can result in embarrassment. The crushing irony here is that there is precisely nothing big or clever about infantile foul-mouthed “gags” to do with bodily functions – this is about as far from mature as it is possible to be, and in attempting adult humour such games come across as being, basically, humourless.

Computer games will one day attain the level of a new art form, though the industry is not quite there yet. Nowhere is this clearer than in the adolescent industry’s rush to appear mature and adult, while it forgets what that means exactly. True immaturity comes in refusing to appreciate different games and what makes those games great – artistic style, emotional depth and clever humour that is often found wanting in 18-rated titles.

Nick Bennett

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 01:44 AM
Hi i found another interesting article can somebody who knows about the hardware breakthis down for me?

Based from a GameCube perspective

http://www.planetgamecube.com/editorials.cfm?action=profile&id=89

"On the main processor (Gekko) there is a 256k Level 2 cache, and a 64k L1 cache (the Xbox's Pentium III has 128k and 32k of cache by comparison). A CPU's cache serves as a scratch pad or nearby storage of sorts. It's a lot easier for a CPU to get things from its cache than it is to get it from main memory.

The graphics chip (Flipper) has 3 megabytes of 1T-SRAM on the chip for intensive graphics work. "

So we see the old XBox CPU had half the cache space, and the 3MB video supposedly on the Revo GPU is the same as we had before.

"1T-SRAM (one transistor-static RAM): GameCube has two banks of this RAM with 12 MB in each bank for a total of 24 MB. This RAM is one of the reasons GameCube has such high performance at it's low price point of $200 dollars. In comparison, typical SRAM has "four to six" transistors making it very expensive.

DRAM (Dynamic RAM): GameCube has 16 Megs of this RAM. Compared to the 1T-SRAM, this RAM is a slow moving dinosaur, but it's not a problem because it's serving as a cache for data that doesn't need to be moved quickly (sound data for example). "

For most purposes, the 16MB DRAM is useless. According to IGN's GameCube FAQ, it runs at only 81 MHZ. The supposed Revo specs have this memory being left in place (probably for native GameCube game playback), with an additional 64MB of 1T-SRAM. This would be more than double the practical RAM!

"GameCube's cache is onboard, and it is also very large. Why is this a major factor in CPU performance? Well, the simple explanation is that a processor often has to wait and simply do nothing until it gets the information it needs. Level 2 cache is fast (Level 1 cache is faster) and normal memory is not so fast. While a processor is waiting for memory to return the information it needs, clock cycles (i.e. 482 MHz = 482,000,000 clock cycles) are generally being thrown in the garbage. Remember that GameCube's processor has twice as much Level 1 and Level 2 cache as Xbox's Pentium III processor. The difference in cache size is part of the reason that GameCube's main processor is more powerful than the Xbox's. This extra power can be used for practically anything. Nintendo even released a technical document earlier this year explaining that the processor can assist the graphics chip with custom lighting and geometry effects."

Makes you wonder why all the effort is put into faster CPUs...

But here's the big part:

"'A particular type of RAM, static random access memory (SRAM), is used primarily for cache. ... [SRAM] does not have to be continually refreshed like DRAM. Each cell will maintain its data as long as it has power. Without the need for constant refreshing, SRAM can operate extremely fast.'

Notice that this RAM is usually reserved for cache only. This is because it's normally prohibitively expensive. However, 1T-SRAM is inexpensive because there is only one transistor per cell as opposed to the usual 4-6. This difference adds up when you consider that a bank of memory is made of millions of cells. So, how much faster is 1T-SRAM than other types of RAM? Well that depends on what kind of RAM you're talking about. Rambus DRAM (used in the N64 and PS2) has a response time of 50-70 nanoseconds. Microsoft did a better job than Sony. Their 64 MB of DDR RAM responds in about 25-40 nanoseconds. However, GameCube's 1T-SRAM responds in 5-10 nanoseconds! Earlier I showed you that CPU caches help a CPU because it doesn't have to access the slow main memory as often, but in GameCube's case, even if the CPU does access the main memory, it's still very fast.

The true benefit of 1T-SRAM is demonstrated by the GPU (graphics processing unit), Flipper. A GPU cannot draw a texture to a scene unless it is in the texture cache. GameCube has a one megabyte texture cache. This may seem big enough, but more texture cache would be better (although it's much bigger than Xbox's texture cache which is rumored to be less thatn 256k). Fortunately, because of the 1T-SRAM's speed Flipper can begin accessing a new texture from main memory in less than 10 billionths of a second. At 162 MHz, Flipper has a clock period of about 6.2 nanoseconds, thus it wastes one or two clock cycles in this time. In comparison, the XBox's GPU runs at 250 MHz giving it a clock period of 4 nanoseconds, yet its RAM responds in 25 billionths of a second at best. Thus, Xbox will waste 5-6 clock cycles while waiting for a texture. Now, I'm not a computer engineer (yet o_O), so don't take these numbers too seriously, but it should give you some idea of the importance that RAM speed plays in a computer. In fact, the actual number of clock cycles wasted may be worse (especially for XBox)."

So all the power in the world won't help a system overcome a bottleneck, which is exactly what system RAM has become.

"Q: So memory latency can downgrade console performance.

Iwata: Exactly. CPU pipelines have made huge advances, and chips are clocked to run faster and faster, so now memory is the main factor which dictates how fast the entire machine runs. With 1T-SRAM, though, it uses SRAM so reading and writing data is a lot faster generally. It's about ten times faster than using DRAM, so the processor only has to wait a tenth of the time... or, really, not at all, usually. 1T-SRAM is absolutely perfect for game systems. You could almost say the Gamecube doesn't have a main memory -- it just has a giant level-3 cache. "

o.O!!! Taking out the slow 16MB of DRAM which is used typically for sound, that'd mean the Revoultion, according to recent word, essentially has 96MB of cache!

"In closing, I hope you can see that RAM is a very important part of a console. Hardware developers often implement larger processor caches to prevent the CPU's from wasting precious power while waiting for RAM to respond. In the case of GameCube, not only has the L2 and L1 cache been increased significantly over standard sizes, the main memory that usually prompts this change is very fast as well. This is what is meant when someone says, "GameCube is an efficient console". The processors are driven to the hilt and developers can really harness the power of the system because of the lightning quick memory. Of course, it's the games that matter..."


Also note for more technical details on RAM in general the link: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/computer-memory3.htm sited in that article.


If the Revolution can quickly get information from the disk drive to the RAM (Neziti, wasn't there a patent relating to that you dug up? I didn't see it in the compiled list...), keeping data from the disk in memory won't be an issue and will free up even more space and this is going to one blazing fast system!

SalmonGod
12-08-2005, 04:06 AM
Laureato I've been saying that for years...

I think it's extremely immature how Nintendo is accused of being targeted only at kids and is not suitable for adults... I've got alot of wierd responses when admitting to being a Nintendo fan and I've even heard ridiculous statements like "when Nintendo makes a game where Mario ****s Peach and shoots Bowser full of holes then maybe I'll consider them"

anybody who says something like that is not a serious gamer and does not respect gaming as an art form or gameplay as a matter of importance...

the truth is Nintendo tries to be all inclusive... they make games with content suitable for kids but they make gameplay deep enough to be entertaining for adults... anybody who's played Smash Bros Melee will know... it's full of all the same characters and bright colored art style as any other Nintendo game, but it's the most intense fighting game I've ever played... not only that but it's a gameplay MASTERPIECE... it's the only fighting game (adventure games dont count) I know of which incorporates 4 people simultaneously into a fight in a balanced and coherent manner...

the best thing about it's gameplay is it's so goddamn simple... anybody can pick up this game and master all the controls in a couple minutes and feel like a pro... it's got the simplest control premise of any fighting game since the NES days when we only had 2 buttons to work with... but I've been playing the game religiously for years and there are still subtle tricks that I cant pull off... not to mention the deep variety and strategy to each of the characters

this game was on Gamefaq's top 10 faqs list for years... I've never seen any other game up there for so long... and there are still new subtlies found within the game to maximize play styles and character strategies are still hotly debated on forums and such... plus I've found people posting videos of their gameplay on the web just to show off how they've mastered the most difficult tricks and strategies... the same way people make skating or martial arts videos to show off... I've never seen anybody do this for any Street Fighter or Tekken game... and my jaw has hit the floor more than once watching these things because they show me things that I didnt know were possible... and it all comes from such a simple game

easy to learn, difficult to master... the holy grail of gameplay

my brother is the best player I know personally and he's mastered Fox to an insane level, though I've still seen better in videos... anyway... he went head to head with another Fox master in the final match of a tournament... they each had 5 lives... and it was the most incredible thing I've ever ever seen in a game... they were neck and neck at eachother's throats for a good 20 minutes... I swear they spent 90% of the time never more than a couple inches away from eachother on the screen, and they would go 30 seconds or more without even landing a hit on one another because they'd just reach that level of instinct, reflex, and mastery over there characters... I felt like I was watching two real-life martial arts masters going at it with all the moves they had going between eachother back and forth at a blistering 1/10 second pace... dodge, attack, dodge, attack, attempt throw, block throw, attempt reverse throw, dodge, attacks cancel out, forced off the edge, recovery, and so on and so on... and we werent even playing with items!... that doubles the chaos!

do you really think this level of gameplay is designed with ONLY kids in mind?!?!... you'd have to be insane... Luigi's Mansion maybe... it doesnt much simpler than that these days... but most of Nintendo's games leave more than enough room for adults

learn to look at bright colors and accept the lack of guns and scarcely-clothed women and you'll find some very very rewarding experiences

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 10:29 AM
[QUOTE=SalmonGod]Laureato I've been saying that for years...
/QUOTE]
Nice to see some one who agrees with me. The bottom line is this, any idiot with half a brain can run around with there fingers on the shoot button, but it takes a certain fraim of mind to complete some of the puzzles in Wind waker , which is considered to be a childish game, it may have a cartoonish look but in no way is that games gameplay childish.

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 10:45 AM
"Easy To Port" Onto Revolution
Nintendo claims developers won't have trouble adapting.
by Patrick Klepek (http://1up.com/do/my1Up?publicUserId=4767412), 12/07/2005 80 of 89 users recommend this story.
http://www.1up.com/media?id=2308851 (http://www.1up.com/do/imageDisplay?id=2308851) Just as gamers (http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3146171#) are spawning 100 pages threads sobbing over alleged Revolution specs that don't match up to the competition comes a contradictory statement from executive VP of sales and marketing Reggie Fils-Aime during the UBS 33rd Annual Global Media Conference proclaiming Revolution will be "easy to port" for third party developers. It's easy to see Nintendo's logic, though. Even though Revolution won't have the same memory bandwidth as Xbox 360 (http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3146171#) and PlayStation 3, the familiarity with current generation development and tools that Revolution takes advantage of means most companies shouldn't have much trouble working Revolution into the mix.

Then again, that's bound to create similar situations that have occurred with multi-platform development currently, where companies simply emphasized work on PlayStation 2 and Xbox (http://1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3146171#) (where much of the money was) and left many GameCube ports to languish unpolished. With Revolution's interface providing a whole new obstacle, watching developers work around should prove interesting.

As more developers receive their finalized Revolution development kits, we should be hearing more about what this means in real-world applications. Maybe the gap isn't as significant as everyone's guessing. Stay tuned for more.

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 11:06 AM
http://www.gamergirlsunite.com/reviews/pn03/sf.jpg

http://www.samurainintendo.com/gamecube/pn03/pn0310.jpg
http://www.morbidcreations.com/pn03/screen_shots/pn03_op_13.jpg
http://guidesmedia.ign.com/guides/495499/images/pn03_backsass.jpg
http://www.2084.org/games/gcn/pn03/booty320.gif

all the above images are running off the gamecube......

gavin_hughes
12-08-2005, 11:37 AM
fanboy alert***** :rolleyes:

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 12:36 PM
what makes you think that Gavin?

tozz
12-08-2005, 12:40 PM
..the truth is Nintendo tries to be all inclusive... they make games with content suitable for kids but they make gameplay deep enough to be entertaining for adults... anybody who's played Smash Bros Melee will know... it's full of all the same characters and bright colored art style as any other Nintendo game, but it's the most intense fighting game I've ever played... not only that but it's a gameplay MASTERPIECE... it's the only fighting game (adventure games dont count) I know of which incorporates 4 people simultaneously into a fight in a balanced and coherent manner...

the best thing about it's gameplay is it's so goddamn simple... anybody can pick up this game and master all the controls in a couple minutes and feel like a pro... it's got the simplest control premise of any fighting game since the NES days when we only had 2 buttons to work with... but I've been playing the game religiously for years and there are still subtle tricks that I cant pull off... not to mention the deep variety and strategy to each of the characters

this game was on Gamefaq's top 10 faqs list for years... I've never seen any other game up there for so long... and there are still new subtlies found within the game to maximize play styles and character strategies are still hotly debated on forums and such... plus I've found people posting videos of their gameplay on the web just to show off how they've mastered the most difficult tricks and strategies... the same way people make skating or martial arts videos to show off... I've never seen anybody do this for any Street Fighter or Tekken game... and my jaw has hit the floor more than once watching these things because they show me things that I didnt know were possible... and it all comes from such a simple game

easy to learn, difficult to master... the holy grail of gameplay

my brother is the best player I know personally and he's mastered Fox to an insane level, though I've still seen better in videos... anyway... he went head to head with another Fox master in the final match of a tournament... they each had 5 lives... and it was the most incredible thing I've ever ever seen in a game... they were neck and neck at eachother's throats for a good 20 minutes... I swear they spent 90% of the time never more than a couple inches away from eachother on the screen, and they would go 30 seconds or more without even landing a hit on one another because they'd just reach that level of instinct, reflex, and mastery over there characters... I felt like I was watching two real-life martial arts masters going at it with all the moves they had going between eachother back and forth at a blistering 1/10 second pace... dodge, attack, dodge, attack, attempt throw, block throw, attempt reverse throw, dodge, attacks cancel out, forced off the edge, recovery, and so on and so on... and we werent even playing with items!... that doubles the chaos!

do you really think this level of gameplay is designed with ONLY kids in mind?!?!... you'd have to be insane... Luigi's Mansion maybe... it doesnt much simpler than that these days... but most of Nintendo's games leave more than enough room for adults

learn to look at bright colors and accept the lack of guns and scarcely-clothed women and you'll find some very very rewarding experiences
Congratulations, you have just described about every fighting game out there. There's two players, button mashers and the skilled ones. Have you ever seen a Street Fighter tournament you'd know. Or met anyone who remotley masters a Virtua Fighter game, that's fighting at its best. I did enjoy alot of SBM but I don't consider it to be anything special in means of gameplay or new thinking. It's essentially a ripoff of fighting games (choose any) and Power Stone. And Power Stone implemented the 4player mode far better imo.

laureato di arte: low res, truly impressive :thumbsup::rolleyes: And please, Wind Waker? That's probably the worst example from the GC you can bring. It was so linear you could almost see the line running through the screen. As for gameplay.. well, it didn't take long to complete, that's for sure :) I didn't care much for the kiddie mode of Link, I enjoy cel-shading, but gameplay was a letdown in that game.

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 12:47 PM
Congratulations, you have just described about every fighting game out there. There's two players, button mashers and the skilled ones. Have you ever seen a Street Fighter tournament you'd know. Or met anyone who remotley masters a Virtua Fighter game, that's fighting at its best. I did enjoy alot of SBM but I don't consider it to be anything special in means of gameplay or new thinking. It's essentially a ripoff of fighting games (choose any) and Power Stone. And Power Stone implemented the 4player mode far better imo.

laureato di arte: low res, truly impressive :thumbsup::rolleyes: And please, Wind Waker? That's probably the worst example from the GC you can bring. It was so linear you could almost see the line running through the screen. As for gameplay.. well, it didn't take long to complete, that's for sure :) I didn't care much for the kiddie mode of Link, I enjoy cel-shading, but gameplay was a letdown in that game.

Is wind waker anymore linear than a mission based shootem up ? .....nah

tozz
12-08-2005, 01:09 PM
Is wind waker anymore linear than a mission based shootem up ? .....nah Who said it was? But you're claiming it requires puzzle solving, it's just go from a to b and press the buttons, there's no "hmm, what am I supposed to do now, I did see something previously that I can solve now perhaps". That's why the game is considered childish, it doesn't allow for much interaction or mind work at all from the player. If this is good or bad is up to the player to decide.

Edit:
Another thing that makes it "childish" is the lack of story. It's girl is kidnapped, go rescue her. There's really nothing in between.

atzfratz
12-08-2005, 01:19 PM
Who said it was? But you're claiming it requires puzzle solving, it's just go from a to b and press the buttons, there's no "hmm, what am I supposed to do now, I did see something previously that I can solve now perhaps". That's why the game is considered childish, it doesn't allow for much interaction or mind work at all from the player. If this is good or bad is up to the player to decide.

Edit:
Another thing that makes it "childish" is the lack of story. It's girl is kidnapped, go rescue her. There's really nothing in between.

did you try to get into that photographer club?

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 01:27 PM
Another thing that makes it "childish" is the lack of story. It's girl is kidnapped, go rescue her. There's really nothing in between.

Hmmm... none of the other zelda games had overly complicated stories, neither does the metroid fiasco. However, the beauty of games like that is The story often plays out through gameplay elements, not just lengty pre rendered cut scenes, often the rest is left to the players imagination which allows a somewhat richer gaming experience if the player has an imagination of there own. I remember reading an interview with Kojima, he was asked why it is that he left the characters in MGS without faces, he said because there was a time when games left things to the players imagination and that is something he just didnt want to let go of. Ico is one of the greatest games to date IMO. would you say that is childish because it cleverly leaves out story elements?

tozz
12-08-2005, 02:42 PM
Hmmm... none of the other zelda games had overly complicated stories, neither does the metroid fiasco. However, the beauty of games like that is The story often plays out through gameplay elements, not just lengty pre rendered cut scenes, often the rest is left to the players imagination which allows a somewhat richer gaming experience if the player has an imagination of there own. I remember reading an interview with Kojima, he was asked why it is that he left the characters in MGS without faces, he said because there was a time when games left things to the players imagination and that is something he just didnt want to let go of. Ico is one of the greatest games to date IMO. would you say that is childish because it cleverly leaves out story elements?
I'm not for pre rendered scenes (however, the love scene in FF10 is amazing) but I do like some nice reading and interaction between characters in the games, and some emotions too if possible (compare Chrono Trigger to Zelda 3). MGS is also rich on conversations and intriguing characters (of course, this a matter of taste) but I've never finished any of them and don't reallt know much about the characters true nature and story (when most fans got a hard on in MGS3 when a special old timer appears I was more of "ok, nice, who are you?"). I haven't played Ico, but from what I've read it isn't as plain and basic as Zelda for example (can't know for certain). It's not really just one element that makes me think Zelda is childish, but rather the combination of many.
Still it's apparant that alot of people like the games so I can see why Nintendo keeps doing them similar to each other.

AnimBot
12-08-2005, 03:42 PM
I'm not for pre rendered scenes (however, the love scene in FF10 is amazing) but I do like some nice reading and interaction between characters in the games, and some emotions too if possible (compare Chrono Trigger to Zelda 3). MGS is also rich on conversations and intriguing characters (of course, this a matter of taste) but I've never finished any of them and don't reallt know much about the characters true nature and story (when most fans got a hard on in MGS3 when a special old timer appears I was more of "ok, nice, who are you?"). I haven't played Ico, but from what I've read it isn't as plain and basic as Zelda for example (can't know for certain). It's not really just one element that makes me think Zelda is childish, but rather the combination of many.
Still it's apparant that alot of people like the games so I can see why Nintendo keeps doing them similar to each other.

Tozz if you've never played it I highly suggest you give Zelda: Majora's Mask a try. Actually everyone should. That game is the most interesting Zelda game I've played it's so off beat and has this slight dark edge to the whole thing. They deal with quite a bit of mature subjects like death and spirituality and the time traveling aspect of the game was certainly challenging for me so I don't know how kids were able to deal with it. On a side note ICO is one of my favorite games right next to Ocarina of time. If you've played both you'll notice how very similar they are. In fact Ocarina has a level in it that is the exact concept of ICO (lead a captured girl through a series of puzzles and protect her from enemies). The beauty in ICO's story telling is that it's very simple even more so than Zelda. All the dialog that you hear is gibberish most of the story telling takes place through observation in playing the game. They were able to make you connect with the characters with almost no talking in a short 5 or 6 hours of game play. In Contrast there's Xenosaga, which I like also like, but has endless amounts of dialog and 7.5 hours of cutscenes yet all the characters feel like lifeless dolls who are just there to execute their lines. Lack of cutscenes or dialog prompts is not an indication of childish story telling. If anything it's the least childish. It doesn't make the assumption that we're not smart enough to figure out what they are trying to say on our own.

ambient-whisper
12-08-2005, 03:48 PM
I haven't played Ico, but from what I've read it isn't as plain and basic as Zelda for example (can't know for certain). It's not really just one element that makes me think Zelda is childish, but rather the combination of many.


ico is what i consider a very raw game. its a very linear game. it doesnt give you a wide variety of things to do. all you do in it is solve puzzles, and move from a to b.

however, the way its executed with the few short cutscenes in between, really amplifies the experience. infact, the characters dont even speak the same language. ( and neither of them speaks english, except the queen at the end ). the game is roughly 4-5 hours long.( well thats how long it took me anyway ).

the story happens similarly like mario/zelda. where it happens through elements that are introduced to you, and the challenges that you are made up to go against. ( plus the little turn that happens toward the end really helps sell it. )

no sex, no killing ( well just one person actually dies ( well, depending how you interpret the ending ).

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 03:53 PM
Tozz if you've never played it I highly suggest you give Zelda: Majora's Mask a try. Actually everyone should. That game is the most interesting Zelda game I've played it's so off beat and has this slight dark edge to the whole thing. They deal with quite a bit of mature subjects like death and spirituality and the time traveling aspect of the game was certainly challenging for me so I don't know how kids were able to deal with it. On a side note ICO is one of my favorite games right next to Ocarina of time. If you've played both you'll notice how very similar they are. In fact Ocarina has a level in it that is the exact concept of ICO (lead a captured girl through a series of puzzles and protect her from enemies). The beauty in ICO's story telling is that it's very simple even more so than Zelda. All the dialog that you hear is gibberish most of the story telling takes place through observation in playing the game. They were able to make you connect with the characters with almost no talking in a short 5 or 6 hours of game play. In Contrast there's Xenosaga, which I like also like, but has endless amounts of dialog and 7.5 hours of cutscenes yet all the characters feel like lifeless dolls who are just there to execute their lines. Lack of cutscenes or dialog prompts is not an indication of childish story telling. If anything it's the least childish. It doesn't make the assumption that we're not smart enough to figure out what they are trying to say on our own.

Yes Majoras mask had such a cool aspect to it, the coolest by far was transfoming into oni link at the end once you don the fierce diety mask.... for those of you that dont know there some images of oni link below...
http://www.mikemeade.com/daniel/oni%20link.jpg

Nightez
12-08-2005, 05:52 PM
fanboy alert***** :rolleyes: Agreed :thumbsup:

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 06:02 PM
Agreed :thumbsup: Explain....

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 07:09 PM
Revolution to be "2.5 times more powerful than Cube"

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/images/NintendoRevolution_Shot2.jpg
Rob Fahey 17:07 07/12/2005
Nintendo's next-gen system won't match power of rivals, focuses firmly on innovation

Developers speaking to GamesIndustry.biz this week have commented that the the Revolution console, hardware kits for which began shipping to third parties recently, is shaping up to be around 2.5 times more powerful than GameCube.

Up until the past week or so, developers close enough to Nintendo's inner circle to have seen any Revolution hardware were working with development kits that were simply GameCube kits with mock-ups of the "wand" controller attached - a clear signal, if any were required, that the system is more about innovative control than about the hardware specs.

Now, however, Nintendo has spoken to developers in more depth about its hardware plans for the new system - and has begun shipping more advanced development kits to selected third-parties, featuring early versions of some of the chips which will appear in the final console.

An article published by US website IGN this morning revealed some details of the console, and several developers today have spoken to GamesIndustry.biz to help fill in the gaps.

The picture we're building up of the final console is as follows; the Cube will be powered by the IBM CPU codenamed Broadway, which is very similar to the Gekko CPU used in the GameCube, but runs at around twice the clock speed and offers potentially two to three times the overall performance, and the ATI graphics chip codenamed Hollywood.

While Broadway is well-understood by developers, the ATI part remains "a bit of a black box", according to one senior developer we spoke to. "We have theoretical throughput figures and stats from Nintendo, but nobody's seen the hardware yet - we're just treating it like it's a faster version of the GameCube GPU, at the moment."

How much faster exactly it will be remains to be seen, but the chip - which "seems to be an evolution of the Radeon range" according to our source - will probably mirror the CPU by running at around twice to three times the speed of the existing part.

In terms of RAM, the system is well-known to boast 512MB of Flash RAM which can be used to store save games and downloaded content, but this will not be accessible to developers, we were told. What they'll have available is 96MB of main memory, built on the same 1T-SRAM architecture as the Cube, and "a few megs here and there for other stuff" - such as 3MB of on-board memory on the graphics chip, which will be used for a frame buffer. "That's plenty, since the Revolution isn't supporting HDTV," one developer added.

As for the storage media the Revolution will use, "they're pretty much standard DVDs," we were told, with capacity similar to current PS2 and Xbox discs. "The only clever thing about the drive, really, is that you can put the little Cube discs into it despite being a slot-loading drive - I think that's the first time you've been able to do that with a slot loader."

In other words, what Nintendo is planning to ship is a system which is no more than around twice to three times as powerful as the current generation GameCube - indeed, more than one developer who has access to the hardware specs suggested "about 2.5 times the power" as the benchmark for the new system.

Although this makes the Revolution significantly less powerful than the PS3 or Xbox 360, developers we spoke to were upbeat about the machine.

"You can basically treat it like a current generation machine," one told us. "The time it'll take to ramp up to developing on this is basically nil - we can just work on a PC or maybe an Xbox, and then improve the quality of our assets when we move to the Revolution. Or even work on a Cube, in fact. The libraries are very similar."

"We could do a game for this in a few months," commented another developer. "Developing games is going to be easy, the challenge is going to be using the controller properly."

The approach mirrors Nintendo's strategy with the DS, which is far less powerful than its rival the PlayStation Portable but offers an innovative interface which has been a hit with gamers and has had major success in the mass market.

Crucially, the low specification will also allow Nintendo to score a victory in terms of pricing; speculation is already rife that the Revolution could enter the marketplace at $149 or even lower, suggesting a sub-GBP 100 price point at a time when the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 still retail for three times that price.

It seems that there is allot of information flying here and there, on one hand there is Reggie fils aim saying it wont be difficult to port from other next gen to the revo, then there are some developers saying that it is 2 times as powerful, I have also read that it is 4 times as powerful ....

deadplant155
12-08-2005, 09:07 PM
fanboy alert***** :rolleyes:


well, this is a nintendo thread, where nintendo fans come to talk and speculate about the new nintendo. this thread will contain information about the nintendo, rumors about the nintendo, and fan gushing about their excitedness about the new nintendo. that's why this thread was created. wtf are you doing here?

laureato di arte
12-08-2005, 09:14 PM
well, this is a nintendo thread, where nintendo fans come to talk and speculate about the new nintendo. this thread will contain information about the nintendo, rumors about the nintendo, and fan gushing about their excitedness about the new nintendo. that's why this thread was created. wtf are you doing here?

:applause: LOL LOL

SalmonGod
12-08-2005, 11:45 PM
Congratulations, you have just described about every fighting game out there. There's two players, button mashers and the skilled ones. Have you ever seen a Street Fighter tournament you'd know. Or met anyone who remotley masters a Virtua Fighter game, that's fighting at its best. I did enjoy alot of SBM but I don't consider it to be anything special in means of gameplay or new thinking. It's essentially a ripoff of fighting games (choose any) and Power Stone. And Power Stone implemented the 4player mode far better imo.

I've played at least a couple releases from almost every fighting game series ever produced... generally there's 2 kinds... the 2d Street Fighter style... and the 3d Tekken or Virtua Fighter style... Smash Bros has elements of both and more...

Street Fighter style is the worst, in my opinion... because you have to literally sit down for hours to learn how to play just a single character effectively... there's such an enormous learning curve... there's hundreds of button combinations and if you cant produce a good number of them by pure instant reflex, then you will never be able to touch somebody who can... that's horrible game design... not friendly to the players at all...

Tekken/Virtua Fighter style I like a bit better... they're generally friendlier to newbies as the basics can get you through alot... but they're also a heck of alot slower paced and generally not nearly as deep... I know Virtua Fighter is the exception as it can get incredibly deep, but only if you're prepared to sit down for countless hours just to practice dozens or even hundreds of cumbersome button combinations...

I can respect players for having the dedication to sit down and muddle through all the crap to reach a mastery level in these games... I'm sure if you have tons of time and patience to pour into this effort, there is alot of fun to be had when you really start getting good... I've watched good players go at it in games like Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, etc and it's very cool to watch... but I cannot respect these games for being so retardedly inaccessible

the only exceptions to these two formulas I know are Soul Calibur and Smash Bros... I havent played Power Stone so I cant say there...

but you can learn the entire repertoire of manuevers in Smash Bros in no more than a few minutes... from that point on it's only learning strategy and building reflexes... you dont have to sit down and go "ok I want to learn this attack... so roll right to left, up, down, a+b, left right... oh crap I messed up *sigh*"... there is a single scarcely known trick in the game that takes alot of practice to master... other than that, everything is pick up and play... the game leaves plenty of space for newbies to have fun playing with masters... and masters can hone their skills for years and still have room to grow... and the pacing of the game is fantastic because it's however fast or slow the players are able to go

I've played everything from Street Fighter to Virtua Fighter to Bloody Roar and I simply cannot say that I've experience this level of deep but player friendly gameplay from any other fighting game... so no... I have not just described every other fighting game out there

and that wasnt even the point... my main point was that Nintendo definitely designs games with gameplay deep enough for adults to enjoy... meaning they are not marketed exclusively towards kids... 90% of American gamers are simply too insecure or homophobic to dare be caught playing a game with lots of bright colors and no guns or bikinis

Edit:
Another thing that makes it "childish" is the lack of story. It's girl is kidnapped, go rescue her. There's really nothing in between.

as for this bit... a story does not need a complex plot progression to be a deep story... many many well respected stories are very very basic but presented in a rich manner... look at The Dark Crystal... it's a cult classic... and its story is very simple but the world it presents is very rich... or look at Clockwork Orange... it was mentioned several times in that other thread over the debate about games as a storytelling medium... alot of people seem to agree that it's an excellent example of storytelling... but it's not a very complex plot... "guy is evil... authorities experiment on guy to make him not evil... he encounters people from his past who take revenge on him and make him evil again"... what makes it a rich story is the presentation... the mood, the environment, and the characters...

this is where many Nintendo games really excel... simple plot but a rich presentation... once again... easy for kids to understand but more than enough for adults to appreciate... Zelda is a very rich world and they hint at many things beyond the scope of the story that are easily expanded on with a little imagination... and there are many fans out there who have written stories and such which do just that... in fact I know a professional writer who recently hit the jackpot on getting publishing lined up for a series of novels... and he LOVES the Zelda story to death... he can talk for hours about the details in those games

and Metroid is a very adult story and environment... involving the extinction of a species, love between human and alien, science torturing nature with experiments, and ruins from an ancient culture hinting at catastrophe... but most gamers simply look at it and go "oh... Nintendo... look there's no blood... typical... and the main character's a girl but where's the cleavage?!"

SalmonGod
12-08-2005, 11:51 PM
It seems that there is allot of information flying here and there, on one hand there is Reggie fils aim saying it wont be difficult to port from other next gen to the revo, then there are some developers saying that it is 2 times as powerful, I have also read that it is 4 times as powerful ....

well one thing we can bet on is a heck of alot of polish in first-party games to raise visual quality beyond machine specs... I've always had the feeling on other consoles that developers generally want to rely on hardware to make the game beautiful for them

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 12:40 AM
I've played at least a couple releases from almost every fighting game series ever produced... generally there's 2 kinds... the 2d Street Fighter style... and the 3d Tekken or Virtua Fighter style... Smash Bros has elements of both and more...

Street Fighter style is the worst, in my opinion... because you have to literally sit down for hours to learn how to play just a single character effectively... there's such an enormous learning curve... there's hundreds of button combinations and if you cant produce a good number of them by pure instant reflex, then you will never be able to touch somebody who can... that's horrible game design... not friendly to the players at all...

Tekken/Virtua Fighter style I like a bit better... they're generally friendlier to newbies as the basics can get you through alot... but they're also a heck of alot slower paced and generally not nearly as deep... I know Virtua Fighter is the exception as it can get incredibly deep, but only if you're prepared to sit down for countless hours just to practice dozens or even hundreds of cumbersome button combinations...

I can respect players for having the dedication to sit down and muddle through all the crap to reach a mastery level in these games... I'm sure if you have tons of time and patience to pour into this effort, there is alot of fun to be had when you really start getting good... I've watched good players go at it in games like Street Fighter, Marvel vs Capcom, etc and it's very cool to watch... but I cannot respect these games for being so retardedly inaccessible

the only exceptions to these two formulas I know are Soul Calibur and Smash Bros... I havent played Power Stone so I cant say there...

but you can learn the entire repertoire of manuevers in Smash Bros in no more than a few minutes... from that point on it's only learning strategy and building reflexes... you dont have to sit down and go "ok I want to learn this attack... so roll right to left, up, down, a+b, left right... oh crap I messed up *sigh*"... there is a single scarcely known trick in the game that takes alot of practice to master... other than that, everything is pick up and play... the game leaves plenty of space for newbies to have fun playing with masters... and masters can hone their skills for years and still have room to grow... and the pacing of the game is fantastic because it's however fast or slow the players are able to go

I've played everything from Street Fighter to Virtua Fighter to Bloody Roar and I simply cannot say that I've experience this level of deep but player friendly gameplay from any other fighting game... so no... I have not just described every other fighting game out there

and that wasnt even the point... my main point was that Nintendo definitely designs games with gameplay deep enough for adults to enjoy... meaning they are not marketed exclusively towards kids... 90% of American gamers are simply too insecure or homophobic to dare be caught playing a game with lots of bright colors and no guns or bikinis



as for this bit... a story does not need a complex plot progression to be a deep story... many many well respected stories are very very basic but presented in a rich manner... look at The Dark Crystal... it's a cult classic... and its story is very simple but the world it presents is very rich... or look at Clockwork Orange... it was mentioned several times in that other thread over the debate about games as a storytelling medium... alot of people seem to agree that it's an excellent example of storytelling... but it's not a very complex plot... "guy is evil... authorities experiment on guy to make him not evil... he encounters people from his past who take revenge on him and make him evil again"... what makes it a rich story is the presentation... the mood, the environment, and the characters...

this is where many Nintendo games really excel... simple plot but a rich presentation... once again... easy for kids to understand but more than enough for adults to appreciate... Zelda is a very rich world and they hint at many things beyond the scope of the story that are easily expanded on with a little imagination... and there are many fans out there who have written stories and such which do just that... in fact I know a professional writer who recently hit the jackpot on getting publishing lined up for a series of novels... and he LOVES the Zelda story to death... he can talk for hours about the details in those games

and Metroid is a very adult story and environment... involving the extinction of a species, love between human and alien, science torturing nature with experiments, and ruins from an ancient culture hinting at catastrophe... but most gamers simply look at it and go "oh... Nintendo... look there's no blood... typical... and the main character's a girl but where's the cleavage?!"


yes you speak the truth I totally agree..... the metroid fiasco is especially deep, what had a real deep impact on me is the simple fact that the main character played the role of a mother to an alien, without actually giving birth to it, the way the alien hatches from the egg and follows you around trustingly at the end of metroid 2, then in metroid 3 you see your child has developed into a powerful creature capable of wiping out a whole civilisation, only for it to sacrifice itself for its mother. These emotinal situations are played out through the gameplay and dont really need cutscenes to describe the emotion involved. Zelda the ocarina of time has a particular moment during the penultimate epic battle, when gannon uses his most powerful magic attack, it is then obvious that you have to use yours to counteract it, those who have played that part know exactly what i am talking about. Not only do you watch events unfold, but you play apart in them, and to me that is simply artistic.

so many may lable me as a fanboy... am i a fanboy? no. is there anything wrong with being a fanboy? no. I call my safe a core gamer as opposed to a casual gamer, I see myself as a gaming purist, I totally belive that some games can be art. for example www.thatcloudgame.com . I dont just own nintendo consoles, I also own sony consoles, I play games on my pc and enjoy them.However, what i have seen is somehow people think that nintendo is the weakest contender in the games market, they instantly brush them off as being childish, is that the case? No, they make games that whole families can enjoy there whole consoles are designed so that families can play games together with a few exeptions. The word mature is sometimes misused in gaming, people think that just by having adult content in a game that makes it mature.... I beg to differ, when i play and see these games with such content, i often envision an imature teenager who would likewise think he is mature just for looking at porn. do you understand what i mean? Allot of the time what makes a game mature is how it makes the player react, or the emotions it stirs within, GTA is not a mature game, it is a childish game with adult content, it involves doing silly things that you would find idiotic teenagers talking about or doing just for a laugh. On the other hand we have games like Ico, Zelda, Metroid, ect , that have stories that the players must actually want to see and that is the real gem. The emotion in these games can be described as mature emotions. For example many of Miyazaki's anime deal wit mature emotions, such as love, honour, pride and fea, but these anime are aimed at children likewise Avatar the last airbender has the same type of effect on the viewers, then there is anime like urosokodoji legend of the overfiend and demon womb, is that really mature just because it deals with sex violence and tenticle rape? No, once again I see some imature school kids just watching it for a laugh......

...umm anyway that is why I transend the lable of a fanboy, I am somthing a lil deeper.

gavin_hughes
12-09-2005, 12:51 AM
well, this is a nintendo thread, where nintendo fans come to talk and speculate about the new nintendo. this thread will contain information about the nintendo, rumors about the nintendo, and fan gushing about their excitedness about the new nintendo. that's why this thread was created. wtf are you doing here?

sensitive fanboy alert****

proceed with caution... they are armed with a remote control vibrator-like gizmo.... possibly some sort of controller for some sort of next gen system....

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 01:03 AM
sensitive fanboy alert****
proceed with caution... they are armed with a remote control vibrator-like gizmo.... possibly some sort of controller for some sort of next gen system....

makes me wonder what some people use there dual shock controlers for....................
:shrug:

Anyway gavin... how are you son? Im really interested to see what your take on this topic is in less than three words, can you do that for us master hughes?

Ninjas
12-09-2005, 01:10 AM
I lot of people are down on Nintendo because they don't make whored up, dumbed down games that some people call --get this-- "mature". If ever there was a game made for 15 year olds it is GTA. Not that I have a problem with violence porn, but pretending it is something other than it is just doesn't make sense. I certainly feel like I am playing something for kids whether it is Mario or GTA.

I have no problem that the Rev is not going to have the same horsepower as some of these other systems. I played Mario 64 again recently on the DS, and the thing I like about the game is the insanely tight gameplay. The main thing I want Nintendo to focus on is tight gameplay.

EpShot
12-09-2005, 01:16 AM
gavin_hughes, you are adding abselutely nothing to this thread, please leave.

nofosu
12-09-2005, 01:31 AM
Agreed :thumbsup:

I don't understand why when anybody say's something that is positive and true about ninty there always some one who will pull out the fanboy card. talk about Ignorant.

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 06:52 AM
Nintendo's Official Stance
What does the Big N have to say about Revolution's tech specs? Click to find out.
by Matt Casamassina (http://revolution.ign.com/email.html)

December 8, 2005 - Online reports are shedding new light on the horsepower for Nintendo's next-generation console, codenamed Revolution, and gamers are reacting. Fans who write Nintendo of America about Revolution's power will receive the following official response:

Our competitors would have you believe that the next generation of gaming will be solely defined by high definition graphics. High definition graphics look fantastic, but come at a price. To shine, high definition games must be played on high definition televisions, which aren't cheap. Games with high definition graphics are expensive to develop because they must be developed in both standard and high definition formats. Those development costs are passed on to you in the form of more expensive software. Finally, playing games with high definition graphics requires a system with loads of RAM (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/674/674611p1.html#) and costly high-end graphics chips, both of which make it prohibitively expensive for most consumers.

Sharper graphics are certainly part of the next generation. We know that games for the Revolution will look brilliant whether played on a standard television or on a high definition television. However, is that all there is to next-generation gaming? We feel that sharper graphics should be combined with a new way to interface with the game itself. Our controller is a sharp departure from the current standard, to be sure, but it will provide a level of interactivity you can't get currently.

We believe in providing a single system that can play not only the previous generation's titles, but also games from a massive library built over 20 years of creating innovative and exciting games. We also believe in providing a complete wireless online experience right out of the box.



http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/674/674611/more-revolution-specs-uncovered-20051206015328017_1134095082.jpg Nintendo (http://revolution.ign.com/articles/674/674611p1.html#) has created a gaming system that is sleek and compact in size, powers up quickly with minimal load times, makes game development easy and fast, is easy to use, and is affordable for everyone. We are confident that gamers and non-gamers alike will support the truly next-generation experience only Nintendo can provide. Once you have a chance to play games on the Revolution, we think you'll agree! Nintendo of America



Nintendo has chosen not to release official technical specifications for its next-generation console and it may never, according to company executives. The Big N believes that comparing horsepower between consoles is a lost cause and that the software standouts in the next-generation will be determined by the quality and originality of the games, not merely how flashy their graphics become.

Stay tuned to IGN Revolution for much more on the console.



http://revolution.ign.com/articles/674/674611p1.html

-Vormav-
12-09-2005, 07:08 AM
I find it kinda funny how Nintendo is pushing the "complete wireless online experience", when just a couple years ago they were the ones opposed to online gaming, while MS and Sony were jumping all over it.
But hey, hope it turns out well.

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 07:15 AM
I find it kinda funny how Nintendo is pushing the "complete wireless online experience", when just a couple years ago they were the ones opposed to online gaming, while MS and Sony were jumping all over it.
But hey, hope it turns out well.

They apparantly had online plans for the 64dd and they had about two online GC games, I read an interview once when they said that they were not interested because the industry was not really ready for it or something like that. At the time there was still allot of people stuck with 56k modems. They also would have liked to offer a service that was free much like how the nintendo ds had wireless online play for no price. Now it is possible for them to offer free online gaming on the revolution.

tozz
12-09-2005, 07:41 AM
Well it's obvious people see what they want to see in games. I'm not here to change that :) But it seems, looking at how you write, that some of you seem a little blinded by your previous experiences. I never had the N64 so I couldn't play what most players would consider the best Zelda games, I played the first, the third, the one on game boy and Wind Waker, and comparing them to some other adventure/rpg's I find them weak in story and gaming experience (there's really no challenge for the player in terms of "hard enemies"). As for comparing them to Miyazaki's works I really don't know what to say. Take My Neighbour Totoro for example, a movie I really love, it's filled with emotions expressed in the art and animation of the characters, you don't find that in Wind Waker (the characters look like life less dolls). Then again, comparing a movie and a game is hard, and I know you wanted to compare the way he's telling a story (both for kids and adults) but I find the comparison very weak.
While I agree that mature games isn't about naked girls and blood I don't see why you see the need to bring it up as an example for every game you talk about. "Look at this Nintendo game, <long text about the game>, AND no blood and no cleavage". Does the lack of the elements bring anything to the game, then I could understand it, but having it as an argument for the sake of it I don't. In a game like DOA where there's enough cleavage to feed a small planet I don't see how it degrades the game, I actually find it funny ^^ As for GTA, it would look damn stupid if there wasn't any blood and no violence, wouldn't it?

As for the fighting games, can't a game be fun just because it has a steep learning curve? A curve doesn't mean you have to climb it, you can stay anywhere you like and enjoy the game right there.

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 09:24 AM
As for GTA, it would look damn stupid if there wasn't any blood and no violence, wouldn't it?


Now lets imagine that the objective in gta wasnt about commiting the crime, then it wouldnt look stupid well . Heck It could be a game based on a street cleaner, as long as it is executed well the game would be enjoyable...

tozz
12-09-2005, 10:17 AM
Now lets imagine that the objective in gta wasnt about commiting the crime, then it wouldnt look stupid well . Heck It could be a game based on a street cleaner, as long as it is executed well the game would be enjoyable...
Considering the sales and reviews, GTA is a well executed idea and a planned game so I don't see why they should change anything, nor why people should bash the violence in it.

morimitsu
12-09-2005, 11:19 AM
I think the point is Nintendo has less money to invest in R&D.

So, if they don´t have as much money as MS and Sony, they need to go another way.

But it may be not as succesfull as they want. Remmember the N64? Why they didn´t have the CDROM drive? The console was cheaper to manufacture, but in the end, it was very expensive to sell cartridges than CDs.

Sony and MS is just crazy to win this hardware battle. Who knows what will happen to N. Maybe they will create just softwares, like Sega. And if this happens someday and they join Sony (along with Capcom, Konami, Sega, Namco, etc.), poor MS.

You know, great japanese studios are creating games to MS, but somehow, who knows why, they are clearly supporting more the PS3.

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 12:00 PM
So with your reasoning Pokémon is the greatest game series ever, because it sold.


Considering the sales and reviews, GTA is a well executed idea and a planned game ......

so is pokemon apparantly.

CHRiTTeR
12-09-2005, 02:00 PM
Well, I think Nintendo is the smartest one of the 3.

They respect the consumer! Sony and Microsoft also have places in the whole home entertainment thingy and their game-console is just a part of it. U can be damn sure they designed their gaminconsoles to influence you to buy some more of their other products, otherwise you wont be able to take advantage of those advanced functions (wich you payed big bucks for).

Nintendo doesnt care about that. They concentrate on the gaming market and thats it. They wont try to influence you to some more home-entertainment-stuff! Thay look at what most ppl have available and try to make the best out of that and at a nice price too!

As for the games. I like the simplicity of the nintendo-based games. They dont require you to stress, they are most of all relaxing and thats what entertaining is all about; relaxing. And thats something most of those flashing PS and Xbox games dont offer -> relaxation...

HDTV is nice, but I dont like the way Sony and MS *Force* you to go that way...



----
Besides that. Yes, I have to admit I'm blown away by the graphics power of Xbox360 and PS3. And I cant wait to play games in HD resolutions, with 1000's of soundchannels and who knows what else. But the price you have to play for it is rediculous. Its good to know that theres an cheaper alternatieve who (again) respects us ... :thumbsup: and I'm quite sure the graphix wont be bad at all! ;)
It'll still take a few months/years before HDTV is a common standard. Then Nintendo will surely offer a gaming console that supports HDTV at a fraction of a price you payed for your Xbox360 or PS3.

I say, go nintendo!

And yes I am a nintendo (and sega) fanboy. But that doesnt mean I cant enjoy playing a game on PS or Xbox. Its just that I like the fact how they respect the consumers and, for me, they still know what gaming is really about. About entertainment and not getting greedy for power and money...

gordon7up
12-09-2005, 02:01 PM
I tend to agree with nintendos remark around saturation in graphics quality, If they release high quality games with game cube standard graphics the system should succeed, hell I bought killzone (was suckered due to the eye candy graphics) on the PS2 played for about 3hrs and returned to mame for a good old game of bubble bobble to relieve my killzone woes and the fact I forked €50 for that crap..

CHRiTTeR
12-09-2005, 02:18 PM
Yeah and I also hate the fact that almost everything goes 3D now a days.
3D is cool for sure. But that doesnt mean it makes everything better.
For examples, sonic; compare the gameplay that the pixelated 2D versions offered with those lame 3D versions...
I still regret the day that my game gear broke :(

Hightech candy aint always the better choice...

tozz
12-09-2005, 03:12 PM
so is pokemon apparantly.
I guess you missed the point... I was refering to the claim that games are good because they sell, often a claim from those who are "pro-Nintendo" (have been seen in this thread quite frequently). So if you like Nintendo games because they sell, you should in all logic like all games based on sales... (don't remember who it was that brought it up from the start, it was something like, "DS is good because it sells").

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 03:19 PM
I guess you missed the point... I was refering to the claim that games are good because they sell, often a claim from those who are "pro-Nintendo" (have been seen in this thread quite frequently). So if you like Nintendo games because they sell, you should in all logic like all games based on sales... (don't remember who it was that brought it up from the start, it was something like, "DS is good because it sells").

yes i agree you cannot base judgment on a good game on sales, at times you cant even look at the reviews and make a good jusgment then either.

Crazzy Legs
12-09-2005, 04:21 PM
okay, so companies won't be able to produce the most technicly advanced games with it. But Nintendo has some awesome art leads. If a system can pump out six million polys per frame, at 30 fps, but every frame is filled with low quality art and design, those polys are going to waste. With Nintendo that doesn't happen.....unless Digimon is the game on the screen...but thats my personal feeling about digimon.

Great example. Think about how immersive Metroid was for the Game Cube, or Ico and Shadow of the Colusses were for the Playstation 2. All of which had lower quality specs then Xbox.

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 04:34 PM
okay, so companies won't be able to produce the most technicly advanced games with it. But Nintendo has some awesome art leads. If a system can pump out six million polys per frame, at 30 fps, but every frame is filled with low quality art and design, those polys are going to waste. With Nintendo that doesn't happen.....unless Digimon is the game on the screen...but thats my personal feeling about digimon.

Great example. Think about how immersive Metroid was for the Game Cube, or Ico and Shadow of the Colusses were for the Playstation 2. All of which had lower quality specs then Xbox.

yea very good point, the problem is the majority of casual gamers dont see it the same way we do. They are just to concerned with the graphics or with the game somehow being fashionable or conforming to what they think is the norm. New gamplay ideas are often frowned upon, unless it involves new and inventive ways to kill people. I think what nintendo need is a good marketing campaign, and hopefully it should go the same waythat the ds has gone.

tozz
12-09-2005, 04:56 PM
To be successful at the console market you need to fill all the needs, people comparing hand helds are missing the fact that Nintendo has been more or less the only player in that market for waaaay to long (Game Gear was soo much better than Gameboy though).
Sure Nintendo has some clever games and some proven concepts, but as we saw with Gamecube, this didn't attract much third party support and the machine sold very badly, even in Japan.
I don't know how third party support is looking for Revolution, alot of devs have said nice things about the poking stick, but you still need to consider the player base.

The interesting part is that Nintendo doesn't seem to want to have a big playerbase or good game support, they're aiming for third place (in terms of sales), if this method of marketing is gonna pay off we'll see soon enough :)

Btw, I'd get a Revo for $99-$199 (I have some serious doubts about this price) if I can play the old Square games, how's the deal on that? I know Nintendo will offer their old titles online but what about the classics? And what will it cost, if anything?

"They are just to concerned with the graphics or with the game somehow being fashionable or conforming to what they think is the norm"
Well, actually this is more of a publishers view. No publisher is gonna risk a wild and crazy title, I even remember some EA dude saying they won't risk money in innovation, but rather sequels and milking (not really that wording).

laureato di arte
12-09-2005, 05:52 PM
Btw, I'd get a Revo for $99-$199 (I have some serious doubts about this price) if I can play the old Square games, how's the deal on that? I know Nintendo will offer their old titles online but what about the classics? And what will it cost, if anything?


yea i think there will be a price for downloading the games. Nintendo have also said that the downloadable games will have updated graphical features, as yet no one knows what that means.

EpShot
12-09-2005, 11:17 PM
as far as keepign up with the compition, one shuold also consider how much money both sony and microsoft are ogin got be loosing with each console. And the fact that Nintendo can possibly sell for a profit. So its not like they are realyl giong to be hurting like a lot of peole think, even if they sell less.

ExKArt
12-10-2005, 02:41 AM
Nintendo will do good.
DS is a great and has done good.
I'll probably buy a "Revolution" (and a PS3), even if a lot of games are rehashed they are still fun! Simple as that.

laureato di arte
12-11-2005, 01:47 PM
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/features/dsvspsp/1.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/features/dsvspsp/2.jpg


ahhhhhhttp://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/features/dsvspsp/3.jpg

Sagii
12-11-2005, 02:28 PM
:D Im buying the revolution because if I dont have it I wont be able to play any future Zelda games that come out since they dont make them for other consoles. As you can see by my avatar I am a fan or the Triforce gang. :D


Not only that but I always liked Nintendo I find them to be innovative and they have great games.. all the mario ones.. as well as super smash bros, mario kart etc. Lots of frantic fun.

Im lucky thought because I live with gamers.. one of my roomates is buying an XBOX 360, my boyfriend is getting the PS3 and I am getting the Revolution. So it works out beautifully for me :D

cookepuss
12-11-2005, 03:05 PM
Btw, I'd get a Revo for $99-$199 (I have some serious doubts about this price)

$249 seems like a much more Nintendo-like price point. They'll release it at that and then drop it down to $199 about 9-12 months later, just in time for Christmas. In the equivalent amount of time later, they'll drop it down to $149. By year 3, they'll probably keep it at $149, but include a "free" game from a selection of 4 or 5 recent classics. They'll only hit $99 near the very end. Nintendo's tactics in this regard are pretty predictable.

Any way you look at it, they'll still launch at a lower than XB360/PS3 price point. MS & Sony will be much more reluctant to drop their prices mainly because they're taking a more substantial hit on hardware costs. If the Revolution is in anyway taking its cue from the GameCube, Nintendo might even sell it at a profit or break even point at launch. Financially, that can only be a good thing for Nintendo, which will help them endure this so-called "war".

Haters & fanboys aside, there are really a handful of things that I see determining a console's success.

- Price. XB360 might be cool as ice, but its as expensive as they come. Comparatively, the Revo could be priced as close to an impulse purchase point as home consoles come. That's not to say I favor the Revo over the 360 or PS3. I just think that its a lot easier to open your wallet for a system that's potentially $100-$150 cheaper than the competition. That's a nice advantage. This has always been a selling point of the Gameboy and a great reason for its success. "Mommy, I want an Atari Lynx." "Gameboy's cheaper. That's what you're getting."

- Games. Its been said before. Can you play the coolest games on your system? Rather, can you play the games that appeal to you most? With Nintendo, that's an issue of franchises. Where else can you play Mario, Zelda, or Metroid. Nowhere. As long as they milk these franchises and upgrade them enough, gamers will always flock to a Nintendo system. As long as developers put out quality releases for their target audiences, a console stands a better chance of success.

- Diversity & Catalog. Here's where Nintendo stumbles a bit & the less is more strategy doesn't always work. This is also part of the reason why Sony & MS are still around. How often have you gone into a game store only to discover that the GC section is 1/3 the size of the XBox or PS2? Probably every time, right? Its just as important to have a lot of games as it is to have great games. There is a place for both quality AND quantity. Even if a lot of those filler games are only C-grade material, there's a place for it. After all, even with LOTR and Star Wars in our DVD collections, there's always a place for Weekend at Bernie's or Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. Sometimes, all that's necessary for success is a blindly massive catalog. Nintendo has actually hurt itself a bit by making its consoles so unique/nontradtional and relatively unattractive to developers looking for ports or M-rated material.

- Tech. Being on the cutting edge matters. That doesn't necessarily mean that better graphics means success. However, a system needs a hook. It needs something to appeal to those idjits looking to spout off technobabble to their friend. "Look, Beavis, my GameBox720 has the latest in bumprestiltfartvision technology!" A hardware developer needs a technical hook to get people talking about it. For Sony & MS, that's the graphics. For Nintendo, that's the controller. The real factor here that helps determine success is how long people will keep talking about those things. Exactly how well will these things keep on dragging butts out to the toy store? As well all know, graphics don't age as well as gameplay. Nintendo could very well have an advantage here, even if they're graphically inferior. On the other hand, if utilized improperly, the Revo controller could just end up being a novelty on a system with technically inferior graphics.

As far as I'm concerned, graphics are only as important as you deem them. We'll tolerate lesser visual quality in something with deeper gameplay (ex. Animal Crossing), but we'll demand only the best for something that's meant to be visceral. If your graphics can't match or surpass your intended gameplay then you're harder pressed to succeed. Chocolate covered crap is still just crap at its core. On the other hand, a Sour Skittle still has that sweet core. (Not sure if that makes much sense.) Its what's at the core of what you're selling that's most important.

I'm not a Nintendo/Sony/MS fanboy. I own probably a dozen systems and really don't care who wins. I just want to play some good games. After all, isn't that what counts? I'll get my gaming fix on whatever system is out. Everything else is secondary.

laureato di arte
12-11-2005, 10:03 PM
If your graphics can't match or surpass your intended gameplay then you're harder pressed to succeed. Chocolate covered crap is still just crap at its core. On the other hand, a Sour Skittle still has that sweet core. (Not sure if that makes much sense.) Its what's at the core of what you're selling that's most important.


Makes allot of sense!

Mistchiff
01-17-2006, 01:32 PM
I think nintendo is like an legendary old vintage synth wich is being upgraded.
And PS and xbox are the snassier syntheshisers wich have more oscillators and filters.
But lacks that depth and warmth the old vintage synth did..

so if i look back at ocarina of time.

i remember blurry scenes and alot of warmth.
that kinda gets me FUZZY inside thinking of it i love this kind of genre and zelda is the only game that delivers.

but N64 had something that PS dident and that was warmth.
and if you never have played a warm game like that then i guess you just havent gamed.

i think the previous consoles had it 2 nintendo probebley the warmest.
i know its weird but the music is one of the main elements wich i trulley enjoy in games.

now ive played MGS FF series and all of the above.

MGS and FF are games who are delibretley displayed as Movies rather then games.

Zelda isent like a movie in my opinion you have a more free will even tho you are reaching your goal it still feels more like a game then when im playing MGS or FF.

more games should be games then movies imo..

fable for example is also a game wich i loved dearleay never played it on XBOX but on pc just recentley.

BUT what MGS, FF and zelda have in common is that they have AWESOME song writters to make the games being remembered.

it doesent really hang on the graphics. its the BIG picture and i think even tho zelda isent really ADULT it is still one of the best franchises made.
and nintendo should have mad props for all of their characters.

But i just dont beileve in them anymore.

im tired of megaman.
im tired of mario.
im slightley tired of zelda.
metroid never got me jumping with happyness..

Its time perhaps to broaden the horizon alittle.

or i dunno i aint a game guru.

gavin_hughes
01-17-2006, 02:46 PM
im tired of megaman.
im tired of mario.
im slightley tired of zelda.
metroid never got me jumping with happyness..

Its time perhaps to broaden the horizon alittle.

or i dunno i aint a game guru.

quoting for agreement

just what the world of gaming needs right now... more of the same things....

so exciting!!!
i cant wait to see what sort of trouble mario and pals have in store...
or another princess rescue on zelda and all its "rpg" greatness....

yay for megaman X22

yay i say...

Enlighter
01-17-2006, 04:42 PM
Apparantly its only going to be a bit more powerful than the current gamecube, but it will be extremely affordable, and it will still have the same games that make Nintendo what it is. It is a wise choice to sell it cheaply given the competitions will be selling for 400-800 a piece.

The only crux of this system could be the controller IMO. It will be hard for some to grasp.

laureato di arte
01-17-2006, 05:19 PM
hi I would rather see the same 0ld games from nintendo, or from mr hideo kojima, since they normally have vast differences over previous games, for example windwaker keeps allot of the good gameplay mechanics from ocarina of time, but then adds a new visual style, and a new world to explore. I would rather have something like that, than a sports games , that simply has more football kits than its previous incarnations.

ambient-whisper
01-17-2006, 06:11 PM
Apparantly its only going to be a bit more powerful than the current gamecube, but it will be extremely affordable, and it will still have the same games that make Nintendo what it is. It is a wise choice to sell it cheaply given the competitions will be selling for 400-800 a piece.

The only crux of this system could be the controller IMO. It will be hard for some to grasp.]

iit was mentioned that it would be atleast 2-3x as powerful. which is enough, and more than a "bit". its a "bit" less powerful than xbox360 and ps3 i guess you could say.
anyway. the controller will be fine. i would think that the best thing they could do is sell also an alternative controller, if people had a hard time adapting to the new one. im sure some 3rd party companies will do this to fill in the void.

laureato di arte
01-17-2006, 08:22 PM
]

iit was mentioned that it would be atleast 2-3x as powerful. which is enough, and more than a "bit". its a "bit" less powerful than xbox360 and ps3 i guess you could say.
anyway. the controller will be fine. i would think that the best thing they could do is sell also an alternative controller, if people had a hard time adapting to the new one. im sure some 3rd party companies will do this to fill in the void.

quoted for agreement., Moreover, if people have a hard time adjusting to the paradigm shift
the revo will aslo come with the classic shell design so the want can be slotted in to, like the mock up shows below.

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg

Kaostick
01-18-2006, 12:10 AM
the revo will aslo come with the classic shell design so the want can be slotted in to, like the mock up shows below.


Not that I have read the article on IGN, but I'm willing to bet that is to make gamecube games easier (possible) to play. After all, the Rev is supposed to be backwards compatible with all (or most) old Nintendo games, right?

laureato di arte
01-18-2006, 12:21 AM
yes the revo will be full backward compatible

heavyness
01-18-2006, 07:12 PM
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=7834

In remarks made to Japanese newspaper Sankei Shinbun and partially translated by consumer website GameSpot, Nintendo president Satoru Iwata has indicated that his company's next-generation Revolution console will launch before Thanksgiving 2006 in the North American territory.

Boxsmiley
01-18-2006, 07:39 PM
there is nothing like eating some good food while playing some fun games...Can't wait! =)

ysvry
01-19-2006, 02:57 AM
new about the revolution is the controller that has a sensor for how its held? i have both owned a microsoft sidewinder and a gravis destroyer tilt that had those functions.
luckily they had both had buttons to switch it off and play by normal directional pad.
the 2 gravis i bought for just 5 euro each at a pc dump fair and they are really cool with the tilt function on off. i wished i bought 4 more as backup. this man had loads of them and nobody bought them??? and now its the big thing? i found it tiresome on the wrists, and not acurate.
nintendo is a great games maker anyway , i just wait about 5 years and play theire games on an emulator. If i remember how much money i wasted on those philips videopac shit and atari 2600 games i think i paid enough to suport the industry. what i found was that 1 in a hundred games are realy worth playing . now adays i buy them when they are released as classics. only exeption is ut2004 i bought because they had an free 3d modeller included.

heavyness
01-19-2006, 04:15 AM
new about the revolution is the controller that has a sensor for how its held? i have both owned a microsoft sidewinder and a gravis destroyer tilt that had those functions.
luckily they had both had buttons to switch it off and play by normal directional pad.
the 2 gravis i bought for just 5 euro each at a pc dump fair and they are really cool with the tilt function on off. i wished i bought 4 more as backup. this man had loads of them and nobody bought them??? and now its the big thing? i found it tiresome on the wrists, and not acurate.

that is because you were playing games that were designed for a keyboard and mouse.

laureato di arte
01-19-2006, 08:32 AM
now adays i buy them when they are released as classics. only exeption is ut2004 i bought because they had an free 3d modeller included.

a 3d modeller?

HappyCookie
01-19-2006, 09:01 AM
Don't know if it has been mentionned already, but SEGA's pretty much interested into the backward compatible feature of the console, and we might see Master System and Genesis/Megadrive titles on the Revolution...

laureato di arte
01-19-2006, 09:35 AM
that would be so cool , apparantly a few third party developers are considering the idea aswell, it would be so cool to see.


First Glimpse: Revolution's Virtual Console
How might the game download service work? An official marketing survey may offer new insight.
by Matt Casamassina (http://revolution.ign.com/email.html)

January 11, 2006 - An official survey conducted for Nintendo of America by marketing company Zanthus may shed new light on Revolution's "Virtual Console" concept. The website www.classicgamer.com (http://www.classicgamer.com/) took part in the online questionnaire, which offered a more in-depth look at the game download system for Nintendo's next-generation console than has previously been seen. The survey even featured mocked-up artwork representing how the graphical user interface for the process may look and function. The concepts below are by no means final, but nevertheless Zanthus prepared these materials based on direction from Nintendo of America and therefore they should not be discounted.

The survey featured eight different mock-ups, each showing different features of Revolution's "Virtual Console" setup. The questionnaire began at a mocked-up Revolution homepage - possibly the same destination retrieved when gamers press the still-mysterious "home" button on the console's controller. Located on this hub menu are four options, including Settings, Memory Cards, Parental Controls and - the focus of this article - Virtual Console. For those who haven't been following Nintendo's new platform, the concept of the "virtual console" describes Revolution's game download service. The Big N's highest-ranking executives have publicly stated that Revolution will not only be able to wirelessly connect online, but that players will also be able to directly download some of their favorite NES, S-NES and N64 classics. The specifics of this service have up until this survey remained completely speculative.



http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/680/680846/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050237898-000.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/img_3312558.html) According to the enclosed mock-ups, once the "Virtual Console" option has been selected, Revolution owners are asked to choose a system for its corresponding games. NES, S-NES and N64 are the available options, which is appropriate since GameCube titles cannot be downloaded via this service; Revolution is able to play GCN software, but gamers must first own the original discs. Users seeking to download and play the classic Kid Icarus would obviously select the NES option, just as those hoping to get their hands on Pilot Wings 64 would go with the N64 icon.

http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/680/680846/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050248881-000.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/img_3312561.html) Once a console is selected, a catalog of software presumably becomes available - at least, based on what we can ascertain from the enclosed mock-ups. From here, users have the freedom to browse the catalog and either buy or rent software. We expect that if Revolution owners rent software, they are able to download it for a pre-specified time before it expires and is no longer functional. In contrast, if they choose to buy it, it is stored permanently in their "My Library" folder, which is also shown in concepts. Based on these mock-ups the system may utilize a point structure similar to Microsoft's Xbox Live architecture. Once a game has been rented, purchased and downloaded, it is fully emulated and playable in its entirety.

http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/680/680846/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050259615-000.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/img_3312564.html) Evidently the study highlighted three different pricing structures. The first was a subscription based package that would enable users to rent and play any game they wanted for $14.99 per month. Meanwhile, NES titles were listed for approximately $2.99 and N64 titles for a more expensive $19.99. These numbers are naturally neither finalized nor confirmed by Nintendo itself.

http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/680/680846/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050312723-000.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/img_3312567.html) http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/680/680846/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050325191-000.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/img_3312570.html) http://revolutionmedia.ign.com/revolution/image/article/680/680846/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050335862-000.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/img_3312573.html) The most interesting part of this questionnaire -- aside from possible prices -- is that Zanthus also included a list of preliminary software that is likely to be made available on Revolution's "virtual console" system early on. We've featured the list, which boasts everything from the original Metroid to the never-released-in-the-states Sin & Punishment for Nintendo 64. Check it out. If, after reading it, you're still not excited, you've got much more self control than we do. NES Games




Balloon Fight
Baseball
Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong Jr.
Dr. Mario
Duck Hunt
Excitebike
Hogan's Alley
Ice Climber
Ice Hockey
Kid Icarus
Kirby
Kung Fu
Mario Bros.
Mario Open Golf
Metroid


Pinball
Pro Wrestling
Punch Out
RC Pro AM
Soccer
Super Mario Bros.
Super Mario Bros. 2
Super Mario Bros. 3
Tennis
Tetris
Urban Champion
Volleyball
Wario's Woods
Yoshi's Cookies
Zelda
Zelda (Adventure of Link)
S-NES Games




Battle Clash
Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Country 2
Earthbound
F-Zero
Illusion of Gaia
Killer Instinct
Kirby's Avalanche
Kirby Dream Course
Kirby Super Star
Kirby 3
Pilot Wings
Sim City
Star Fox
Stunt Race FX


Super Mario Kart
Super Mario RPG
Super Mario World
Super Metroid
Super Play Action Football
Super Scope 6
Super Soccer
Super Tennis
Tetris Attack
Tetris 2
Uniracers
Vegas Stakes
Wario's Woods
Yoshi's Hunting
Yoshi's Island
Zelda
N64 Games



1080
Blast Corps
Bomberman 64
Cruisin' USA
Goldeneye
Mario Golf 64
Mario Party 3
Mario Tennis 64
Ogre Battle 64


Paper Mario
Pilot Wings 64
Pokemon Snap
Sin & Punishment
Star Fox 64
Super Mario 64
Wave Race
Yoshi's Story
Zelda
We attempted to take part in the survey, too, but were promptly denied access. After contacting Zanuth and requesting entry to the questionnaire, the company's founder and CEO, David Edwards, explained that it was a private study and never intended for press.

"Thanks for your inquiry about participating in our survey on the Nintendo Revolution's 'Virtual Console' service. I'm sorry to inform you, however, that this survey is intended for a general gaming audience rather than industry professionals," he stated. "In addition, our agreement with Nintendo stipulates that the content of this and other, similar surveys can't be released to the press. This agreement extends to our survey respondents. It is unfortunate some survey respondents have broken their agreement with us by posting select research stimuli."

Edwards also reinforced to us that all mock-ups contained within the survey are unfinished and do not necessarily represent the interface for Revolution's virtual console. "Please note that these materials are preliminary in nature and as such, subject to change," he said.



"Nintendo is considering a variety of options for the virtual console service for our next console, code-named Revolution, although details have not been announced at this time," Nintendo of America said in a statement today. "In our normal course of business, Nintendo conducts consumer research for many of our products with information and imagery that do not represent actual product specifics."

Nintendo is expected to reveal much more about its still-codenamed Revolution console, including details about its virtual console functionality, at this May's Electronics Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles.



http://media.ign.com/thumb/136/1367151/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050237898_thumb.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/imgs_1.html)
http://media.ign.com/thumb/136/1367153/first-glimpse-revolutions-virtual-console--20060111050248881_thumb.jpg (http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/imgs_1.html)
(http://media.revolution.ign.com/articles/680/680846/imgs_1.html)

deadplant155
01-19-2006, 04:16 PM
quoting for agreement

just what the world of gaming needs right now... more of the same things....

so exciting!!!
i cant wait to see what sort of trouble mario and pals have in store...
or another princess rescue on zelda and all its "rpg" greatness....

yay for megaman X22

yay i say...

i think if people are going to complain about rehashing and re-releasing old games they should probably not try to use it as an anti nintendo argument, but rather a comment on the mindset of the entire gaming industry. have you ever played mario games? cuz last i checked there was something new and exciting about every single one, starting with Mario brothers, before they were even super. i mean, super had powerups and levels and worlds (a first), 2 had multiple characters, hidden areas, creative environments and enemies (i mean, you could dig through a pyramid!) three had you ducking behind the levels, so many different suits and powerups and new areas, and now the 3d ones are completely different games in their own right. sure they all star mario and the gang, but not one of them is a re-hash.
so your complaint about zelda is that the point is always to rescue the princess? um....so does it bother you that the point of every first person shooter in history is to kill the bad guys? i mean, that's a pretty pointless complaint, don't you think? i mean, the stories are drastically different in each one, as are the art style and gameplay, just because the ultimate goal is to kill gannon and save hyrule (the princess is more of a side project really) doesn't mean they're all the same.
oh, and mega man x only made it up to 3 on nintendo systems, then they switched over to playstation and released 5 or 6 more that were way less innovative than the nintendo iterations. but you knew that, right?

P_T
01-19-2006, 04:30 PM
oh i'll be gettin that Punch Out for sure! Too bad they don't have Super Contra on NES list and Perfect Dark on N64 one.

laureato di arte
01-19-2006, 05:30 PM
i think if people are going to complain about rehashing and re-releasing old games they should probably not try to use it as an anti nintendo argument, but rather a comment on the mindset of the entire gaming industry. have you ever played mario games? cuz last i checked there was something new and exciting about every single one, starting with Mario brothers, before they were even super. i mean, super had powerups and levels and worlds (a first), 2 had multiple characters, hidden areas, creative environments and enemies (i mean, you could dig through a pyramid!) three had you ducking behind the levels, so many different suits and powerups and new areas, and now the 3d ones are completely different games in their own right. sure they all star mario and the gang, but not one of them is a re-hash.
so your complaint about zelda is that the point is always to rescue the princess? um....so does it bother you that the point of every first person shooter in history is to kill the bad guys? i mean, that's a pretty pointless complaint, don't you think? i mean, the stories are drastically different in each one, as are the art style and gameplay, just because the ultimate goal is to kill gannon and save hyrule (the princess is more of a side project really) doesn't mean they're all the same.
oh, and mega man x only made it up to 3 on nintendo systems, then they switched over to playstation and released 5 or 6 more that were way less innovative than the nintendo iterations. but you knew that, right?

for real for real.....

poly-phobic
01-19-2006, 05:44 PM
for real for real.....

yup. fo' reezle

CupOWonton
01-19-2006, 07:44 PM
A rehashed game that looks very awsome and is getting genuinely good reviews lately however is Ape Escape 3. Hopefully if a company does rehash a game, they do as good a job as other companies that have pulled it off successfully. In my recient experiences, one rehash *sequel* that turned out much better than the original, was TimeSplitters - Future Perfect. Rehashing isnt alwayse bad, its just the people in charge of rehashing it that screw it up for everyone.

laureato di arte
01-19-2006, 10:20 PM
Rehashing isnt alwayse bad, its just the people in charge of rehashing it that screw it up for everyone.

yup most def

heavyness
01-19-2006, 10:39 PM
doesn't it bother anyone that there are the same amount of Tomb Raider games as Super Mario titles [major platforming Mario titles] and the Mario franchise is almost twice as old as Tomb Raider franchise?

sequels aren't bad. bad games are bad.

laureato di arte
01-20-2006, 11:35 PM
sequels aren't bad. bad games are bad.

couldnt have said it better.... its funny, I see many people complain about the mario sequals but people, would freely accept a GTA game that is simply based in a different city and a new character. Although the variation between gameplay in mario games is greater.

samartin
01-21-2006, 09:22 AM
couldnt have said it better.... its funny, I see many people complain about the mario sequals but people, would freely accept a GTA game that is simply based in a different city and a new character. Although the variation between gameplay in mario games is greater.


Unfortunately I think people who say Mario is unoriginal etc... maybe haven't played the later games, they are missing out on some fun games. Granted some are a bit dodgy but I have to say when I have friends round the ps2 normally loses out to the cube, Mario Kart is such a fun game. I think it's still very much seen as a kids console, well all my mates who play the cube are 30+...

GTA is probably acceptable to do tonnes of sequels as it bucks the trend in modern society, normally has seen as cool music, it's very un-PC, robbing, sex is perfectly fine within a Vitrual World...

I wonder if Mario did GTA, how would that go down? Shudder the thought...

laureato di arte
01-21-2006, 10:06 AM
I wonder if Mario did GTA, how would that go down? Shudder the thought...

i shudder indeed!!

tozz
01-21-2006, 11:48 AM
It's funny how you're talking about sequels, there's over 15 Mario games and even more with Mario in the game in some way (think the count is above 100). True, they're not all sequels for the same game, but do you see the milk running here? Longest running is Mario Party i think, with 7 games.
At least in other projects like Final Fantasy the characters and theme change somewhat.

"..ain't the same fu*kin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fu*kin' sport."

laureato di arte
01-21-2006, 12:43 PM
It's funny how you're talking about sequels, there's over 15 Mario games and even more with Mario in the game in some way (think the count is above 100)..........

Hi erik how you doing? I think you may have misunderstood what we are saying, we aint saying sequals are bad we are saying that with allot of the nintendo sequals, the great aspects of the original are enhanced and then more aspects are added. see?


"..ain't the same fu*kin' ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same fu*kin' sport."

I aint quite sure what you mean by this though. Please explain....

Primo_itch
01-21-2006, 05:32 PM
I'm SOOOOOO going to buy Ogre Battle 64... Never found it for sale here in the jungle...

tozz
01-21-2006, 10:12 PM
Hi erik how you doing? I think you may have misunderstood what we are saying, we aint saying sequals are bad we are saying that with allot of the nintendo sequals, the great aspects of the original are enhanced and then more aspects are added. see?


I aint quite sure what you mean by this though. Please explain....
Where in my post do I say sequels are bad? Are you seriously telling me you don't think over 100 games with the same character appearing is over the top? If they're this great in enhancing and adding experience, you would think they could come up with a new character or two? I tried playing the the GC Mario, sunshine right? I must say it's a piece of crap compared to the SNES version for example. Innovation isn't always good, especially not when other areas will have to take the fall for it, example "look how cool I can jump by doing this", "well, they forgot to add areas where you can jump, so what's the point?".

The quote is a classic from Pulp Fiction, Mario is a totally different sport when it comes to rehashing/sequels, it's probably the most remade and milked gamecharacter in the entire history of gaming.

Kole: are there 15+ Tomb Raiders?

laureato di arte
01-22-2006, 02:21 AM
Where in my post do I say sequels are bad?


Where in my post did I say you did?

P_T
01-22-2006, 02:40 AM
Just gonna tozz in a couple of cents here. :scream:

I think Mario has become more than just a mere game character. He had become an icon for Nintendo. When someone says Mario you'd think of Nintendo straight away and vice versa, (unless of course you were having a discussion about some Italian dude).

That's why, if I'm not mistaken, every new console release from Nintendo was always accompanied by a new Mario game.

I agree with Samartin. Back in N64/PS1 time, we always ended up playin Mario Cart 64. The booze and abuse that went around... ooh... that's what I call fun!! Forget online multiplayer, develop a new way to network the console so we can bring a console to a mate's place and have a LAN on a huge TV, now THAT would be awesome.

eek
01-22-2006, 04:13 AM
vive le revolution!


eek

laureato di arte
01-22-2006, 09:30 AM
vive le revolution!


eek

yup for real!!

tozz
01-22-2006, 10:10 AM
Where in my post did I say you did?
"..we aint saying sequals are bad.."
Who are saying they are then? You have to refer to someone since you group people in that statement.

laureato di arte
01-22-2006, 02:00 PM
I was refering to what kole said, since we both shared the same point of view I said WE.

tozz
01-22-2006, 03:19 PM
I was refering to what kole said, since we both shared the same point of view I said WE.
Then the whole "we didn't say sequels are bad" was pointless as neither you or I said they were...

laureato di arte
01-22-2006, 08:53 PM
Then the whole "we didn't say sequels are bad" was pointless as neither you or I said they were...umm yea ok , this whole situation reminds me of an episode of the simpsons, when mr burns kept telling a baseball player who didnt have sideburns to shave off his sideburns.

Me simply re-iterating the point that sequals are not bad, bad games are bad isnt pointless. But, trying to get each other to shave off non existent side burns, is as pointless as trying to burn the sea. So lets just say that me and you both agree that sequals are not bad. Since we both agree on that we can stay on topic....

I am really excited about playing golden eye on the revolution, and online against people, now I will finally find some one who can defeat me in that game and i will be at peace:cool:

coldfuse[ofX]
01-22-2006, 10:05 PM
I tell you all this console war happenings is making my head hurt...Though its kinda fun i guess.

Well nintendo unfortuently continue to do what they feel they do best, make games. Which to be honest is true. Nintendo make amazing games, the same as sega. HOWEVER its the other games that come along with the package which let them down. The only thing that xbox and playstation have as a difference is they have so many developed theres alot of crap about there but also alot of choice. I really think the revolution should look forward to the online gaming.

Thats something the xbox is doing but the playstation hasnt in my eyes pulled off as well as xbox. But theres still more to do.

right now the 360 as a machine was rushed, so i think nintendo have a great chance to pull things back here, especially over them, for gaming.

I heard that there using a control mechanism like i have seen on tv- where the controller becomes the object, so like if ur playing a first person shooter you hold the controls like a gun. Which i think is so the way forward!

Online that and on my word you have some instense playing!!! and it seems you can do alot of sports games with it aswell, which i think the american market even european market they can do well from.

Going back to previous discussions the ds is a great handheld machine. the games are inspiring, however i have to say for all my needs i really want a psp. not even for gaming funnily enough. lol I want it to show off my creations i have made to others. Its a great way to show people on the move!

But as games go ds by far.

Playstation have a place in my heart, because when they came out they changed everything. Introducing ploygons to the commercial world, and well some pretty amazing games over the years. I just want xbox out of here to be honest get back SEGA!

laureato di arte
01-23-2006, 03:15 AM
']I tell you all this console war happenings is making my head hurt...Though its kinda fun i guess.

Well nintendo unfortuently continue to do what they feel they do best, make games. Which to be honest is true. Nintendo make amazing games, the same as sega. HOWEVER its the other games that come along with the package which let them down. The only thing that xbox and playstation have as a difference is they have so many developed theres alot of crap about there but also alot of choice. I really think the revolution should look forward to the online gaming.

Thats something the xbox is doing but the playstation hasnt in my eyes pulled off as well as xbox. But theres still more to do.

right now the 360 as a machine was rushed, so i think nintendo have a great chance to pull things back here, especially over them, for gaming.

I heard that there using a control mechanism like i have seen on tv- where the controller becomes the object, so like if ur playing a first person shooter you hold the controls like a gun. Which i think is so the way forward!

Online that and on my word you have some instense playing!!! and it seems you can do alot of sports games with it aswell, which i think the american market even european market they can do well from.

Going back to previous discussions the ds is a great handheld machine. the games are inspiring, however i have to say for all my needs i really want a psp. not even for gaming funnily enough. lol I want it to show off my creations i have made to others. Its a great way to show people on the move!

But as games go ds by far.

Playstation have a place in my heart, because when they came out they changed everything. Introducing ploygons to the commercial world, and well some pretty amazing games over the years. I just want xbox out of here to be honest get back SEGA!

yea you have some very good points here, the psp is a great multimedia device, its seems to be lacking with the games but we will see what will happen this year when the new ds is revealed and maybe if they show the true ds.
Allot of people dont really know this but i I heard the first game to introduce polygons was starfox on the super nintendo. I could be wrong though.

tozz
01-23-2006, 09:51 AM
I, Robot was years ahead of Starfox (1983) :)

coldfuse
I agree, it's a shame SEGA had to leave, there will never be a console like the Dreamcast ever again. Combining an amazing array of games with excellent hardware, and the best part was that EA didn't flood the market with their crap.

NanoGator
01-23-2006, 04:21 PM
Allot of people dont really know this but i I heard the first game to introduce polygons was starfox on the super nintendo. I could be wrong though.

No, Star Fox does not deserve that credit. What Star Fox did that was unusual was they added a co-processor to the cartridge, thus boosting the SNES's overall capabilities. Though it wasn't the first 3d game ever, it definitely stood out brightly against other games on 16-bit platforms at the time. Amusingly, Sega tried to copycat them by making Virtua Razer for the Genesis using their own chip. The game was like $100 and, according to some, took a bit out of the 32X market.

laureato di arte
01-23-2006, 11:51 PM
No, Star Fox does not deserve that credit. What Star Fox did that was unusual was they added a co-processor to the cartridge, thus boosting the SNES's overall capabilities. Though it wasn't the first 3d game ever, it definitely stood out brightly against other games on 16-bit platforms at the time. Amusingly, Sega tried to copycat them by making Virtua Razer for the Genesis using their own chip. The game was like $100 and, according to some, took a bit out of the 32X market.

oh ok then

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