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View Full Version : Microsoft sued over alleged Xbox 360 glitch


RobertoOrtiz
12-05-2005, 08:29 PM
Quote:
"A Chicago man who bought Microsoft Corp.'s new Xbox 360 has sued the world's largest software maker, saying the new video game console has a design flaw that causes it to overheat and freeze up.
"
>>LINK<< (http://www.yahoo.com/s/263979)
-R

Dagibit
12-05-2005, 08:43 PM
Ha! I knew 360 was cheaper. just compare it's graphics quality vs the ps3:p

...wonder if he'll win?

Simon
12-05-2005, 08:51 PM
Lol In England if you buy something thats broken you take it back.

In America you sue them? I dont get it?

Meh I'll stick with my pc.

Simon

Pooyag
12-05-2005, 08:57 PM
yeah...that's really funny...if i were him i'd have taken it back. why the hell should someone sue? just dont buy the product dude!

KolbyJukes
12-05-2005, 08:57 PM
Ha! I knew 360 was cheaper. just compare it's graphics quality vs the ps3:p

...wonder if he'll win?

you mean the still no announced release dates, no confirmed in-game footage PS3? Yeah, it's graphics are so totally awesome. <sarcasm>I mean...damn...that pre-rendered killzone trailer, that really showed the raw power of the console.<sarcasm> It's pretty dumb to judge the graphical capability of any of these consoles before the console/games are released.

anyway, I had some crashes and a few error messages, but nothing that pissed me off to bad. Whenever you buy first-gen consoles, you're bound to run into manufacturing glitches - twas the same with the dreamcast, PS1, PS2 and Xbox. Sounds like this guy is trying to make a quick buck by blowing this way out of proportion.

heavyness
12-05-2005, 09:03 PM
Ha! I knew 360 was cheaper. just compare it's graphics quality vs the ps3

kinda hard to compare the two systems when one of them isn't even out.

the guy won't win. every piece of electronic hardware will have some margin of error. i've bought hard drives that are 100% dead right out of the box. if it doesn't work, take it back or send it in for repairs.

Dagibit
12-05-2005, 09:09 PM
It's pretty dumb to judge the graphical capability of any of these consoles before the console/games are released...

...Sounds like this guy is trying to make a quick buck by blowing this way out of proportion.

Yes, you are right... I just havent seen anything impressive other than polycount, or scattered reflections. They do have real gameplay by the way...

Couldn't say it better myself- American tradition has gone to the dogs.

Simon
12-05-2005, 09:14 PM
Lightwave crashes every day. WHEN im WORKING with expensive time sensitive work. Windows crashes often.

Wheres my free money?

akaiwa
12-05-2005, 09:22 PM
yeah...that's really funny...if i were him i'd have taken it back. why the hell should someone sue? just dont buy the product dude!

Where is anyone in America going to possibly find a store that has an XBox 360 in stock that he could exchange it for? The most he would've got is a store credit for when more come in (January?)

Not that he should have sued, I'd just like to point out exchanging it isn't gonna happen.

AlpineMan
12-05-2005, 09:42 PM
I think the man is only trying to get attention. How many other of the thousands of suits that are filed daily make the front page news? Practily none. This guys is too easily offended.

tide78
12-05-2005, 09:44 PM
If this guy wins the case, I am going to sue Microsoft for selling me WindowsXP.
Bastards.
http://www.fileboost.net/images/screen/large/l008183.gif

lestdog
12-05-2005, 09:52 PM
I wonder what damages he's seeking. Emotional distress? Does MS owe this guy money because the world isn't perfect?

Apoclypse
12-05-2005, 09:56 PM
What ever you want to say about sony, at least the games work when you buy their systems. I saw the xbox 360 glitch and crash right in front of me. What type of presentation is that? What ever happened to spit and polish? Just like microsoft to expect users to download "upgrades" and patches for games they've bought. What if you are like me and don't plan to play online at all, what will you do then? Will you have to wait till they release service pack 2 with every Halo 3 disk?

Simon
12-05-2005, 09:57 PM
I wonder what damages he's seeking. Emotional distress? Does MS owe this guy money because the world isn't perfect?

Theylle be people sueing microsoft for making them fat next. :thumbsup:

Apoclypse
12-05-2005, 09:59 PM
"I wonder what damages he's seeking. Emotional distress? Does MS owe this guy money because the world isn't perfect?"

No, they owe him money becuase they took out a buggy piece of crap and made him pay $500 for it.

Simon
12-05-2005, 10:09 PM
they DIDNT make him pay.

thats the nature of business. he had a choice, and he chose x-box 360

if microsoft produce crap COMPETITORS such as the PS3 can take their market share.

The consumer has rights, he can take it back and get a refund and can buy from a competitor. but he shouldnt be able to sue.

Simo

pgp_protector
12-05-2005, 10:11 PM
What ever you want to say about sony, at least the games work when you buy their systems. I saw the xbox 360 glitch and crash right in front of me. What type of presentation is that? What ever happened to spit and polish? Just like microsoft to expect users to download "upgrades" and patches for games they've bought. What if you are like me and don't plan to play online at all, what will you do then? Will you have to wait till they release service pack 2 with every Halo 3 disk?

Like the PSP dead pixles or the PS2 Disk Read erros, or the PSP Disk popout "Feature" ?

Yea Sony's stuff always works right out of the box...

-Vormav-
12-05-2005, 10:19 PM
What ever you want to say about sony, at least the games work when you buy their systems.

Right, because Sony's products never fail. They are perfect. No faulty products, just smooth systems, even the first line that they release. Always.
Really.







[/sarcasm]

Simon
12-05-2005, 10:21 PM
Right, because Sony's products never fail. They are perfect. No faulty products, just smooth systems, even the first line that they release. Always.
Really.


While we are on the subject arnt dells great? :twisted:

EpShot
12-05-2005, 10:55 PM
What ever you want to say about sony, at least the games work when you buy their systems. I saw the xbox 360 glitch and crash right in front of me. What type of presentation is that? What ever happened to spit and polish? Just like microsoft to expect users to download "upgrades" and patches for games they've bought. What if you are like me and don't plan to play online at all, what will you do then? Will you have to wait till they release service pack 2 with every Halo 3 disk?

ok i will say soemthing about sony.

I worked for EA tech support when the PS2 was released. not only did it have a multitude of hardware problems when it was released. My favorite being the laser would actualy burn rings into game cd's. THey would actualy deny the hardware issues, saying it was the game manufactures problem, and tell the customers to call the game manufactures (which is why we got so many hardware calls)

pgp_protector
12-05-2005, 11:09 PM
ok i will say soemthing about sony.

I worked for EA tech support when the PS2 was released. not only did it have a multitude of hardware problems when it was released. My favorite being the laser would actualy burn rings into game cd's. THey would actualy deny the hardware issues, saying it was the game manufactures problem, and tell the customers to call the game manufactures (which is why we got so many hardware calls)

What type of Laser did they have in the first units ?

EvilGnome
12-05-2005, 11:10 PM
This culture of litigation is a sickness and pathetic, what makes it worse is it's spreading.

Get an exchange like any normal human being and get on with your life.

EpShot
12-05-2005, 11:20 PM
What type of Laser did they have in the first units ?
i iddn't have all the details myself, i just heard that it was just too strong, so that if it was reading the same area for a long period of time, that would happen. there were a numbe rof problems, but i don't rememebr them all, this one wasn't really that common. certainly compared to the over heating and other issues. but it was one of the most amusing.

ColinRoss
12-05-2005, 11:38 PM
My favorite being the laser would actualy burn rings into game cd's. THey would actualy deny the hardware issues,

I've got one of the first PS2's, and I've noticed that there's a burn/ring mark towards the inside of my Fahrenheit disc recently.

But it is typical for the first runs of console hardware to have a few itching problems, and I can't see how this bloke can even assume that he's entitled to compensation. The most he'll get is a replacement 360, and he'll have to wait for that aswell.

Now lets just thank Nintendo for making the most fault-free hardware around. :)

mr3dguy
12-06-2005, 12:22 AM
I've got one of the first PS2's, and I've noticed that there's a burn/ring mark towards the inside of my Fahrenheit disc recently.

But it is typical for the first runs of console hardware to have a few itching problems, and I can't see how this bloke can even assume that he's entitled to compensation. The most he'll get is a replacement 360, and he'll have to wait for that aswell.

Now lets just thank Nintendo for making the most fault-free hardware around. :)

**blows in cartridge and returns it to its slot**

EpShot
12-06-2005, 12:30 AM
**blows in cartridge and returns it to its slot**
well at leas ttheer was an easy "hack" fro that. just unscrew the top of the case, and put a heavy object on the cartrige when u slide it in, as i do with mine at home right now =).

DuttyFoot
12-06-2005, 04:12 AM
Quote
"Now lets just thank Nintendo for making the most fault-free hardware around."

That is so freaking true, I have never had an system from nintendo that gave problems. It didnt even occur to me until you brought it up. Its kinda silly to sue a company because something dosen't work, however I understand how frustrating it must be after you spend so much money though. All he has to do is take it back, but then he will have to wait a month or so to get another one. total bummer

Quote
" **blows in cartridge and returns it to its slot**"

lol, yo i remember doing that with the games, man i would blow until i was outta breath and the freaking game still wouldn't work...lol
or it worked, and you get all excited, and once you start playing it would freeze up...lol

one more thing, when blowing wouldn't work my cuz would use the cover fo his brothers inhaler and push it into the system so the game cartridge would be held in place.

Caffeinemonkey
12-06-2005, 04:18 AM
whats was the point of this thread?

Tlock
12-06-2005, 01:51 PM
I would first like to say that i definitely see everyone's point of view, but personally i like the fact that this guy is doing this.
The first reason is that we have reached this point where product quality comes second/third or forth and the consumer has to suffer with hours of work to resolve this issue. If i spend $500 on a state of the art gaming system i expect that i get one, not to spend my christmas holidays running around trying to resolve Microsoft lack of beta testing. Did they even have any games to test all this stuff out or did they just have emulators, which never even tests the console. Not to say the system has to be perfect but, hardware falls under different expectations. Software companies someone can send you a fix anytime, but this guy is going to have to wait months before he gets the product he already paid for. We need to go back to the age of Form & Function, not Market Share then Form & Function. A great product sells it's self with a little marketing.
My second reason is that Microsoft is one of the worst companies when it comes to this behaviour, they need a little wake up call, since this will cost more money to make a poorly tested product than a quality product (both in Market Share and in Recalls). From all the gaming systems i have had, and let me say i have played hundreds of hour like many of you and my old/new Nintedos (which still works perfectly), PS and XBox have never once crashed. I will not buy a new gaming system if this is the future, more flaky products. I am actually glad the Sony is waiting, hopefully they spend the time beta testing.

ambient-whisper
12-06-2005, 02:28 PM
WHEN im WORKING with expensive time sensitive work. Windows crashes often.

Wheres my free money?

id say that you should upgrade from windows 98, and get something better than an e-machine.
windows doesnt crash anymore man. is it efficient with memory, and other things? not as much as other oses, but it is very stable.

heating problems on the 360 are a completely different issue, and not related to the windows OS.

Simon
12-06-2005, 03:06 PM
id say that you should upgrade from windows 98, and get something better than an e-machine.
windows doesnt crash anymore man. is it efficient with memory, and other things? not as much as other oses, but it is very stable.

heating problems on the 360 are a completely different issue, and not related to the windows OS.

I know i know. And for that matter i'm on a custom 64 bit rig mith gigabytes of ram and xp sp2.

I'm just saying no system is perfect, (-the law takes that into account) and anyone who buys the first generation of a new technology know they are guiniepigs.

Mondo
12-06-2005, 03:12 PM
My dog peed on the carpet and I'm suing the pet store!

pixelmonk
12-06-2005, 04:55 PM
Lol In England if you buy something thats broken you take it back.

In America you sue them? I dont get it?

Meh I'll stick with my pc.

Simon

people still say "meh"? Must be a brit thing

Gonzomuse
12-06-2005, 05:15 PM
"Yes, you will find us Brits far behind the rest of the world in most things.. including Language and Litigation.

I personally can't wait to be able to sue my parents cos I'm ugly."

No seriously, doesn't "S&$t Happens" mean anything anymore.

I think its too soon to be slagging the 360. There were always going to be reports of a few glitches. It's inevitable with something as complex as a games console.

Mmmmm I wonder if there are any places left at "Lawyer School"......

Romero
12-06-2005, 05:40 PM
I personally can't wait to be able to sue my parents cos I'm ugly."


Haha that was awesome.

(note to self) Don't buy new game systems unitl they have been on the market for atleast a year, and when there are more games and other systems to choose for competitive pricing. I don't get it, shit like this happens all the time with new product so I can't understand why there is an uproar when things go wrong, I could have told you there would have been some errors after the launch ie). like someone had already mentioned, PS1,PS2,PSP,xBOX,& every other system these companies have ever made.

O'doyles Rule!!!

lestdog
12-06-2005, 06:25 PM
I would first like to say that i definitely see everyone's point of view, but personally i like the fact that this guy is doing this.
The first reason is that we have reached this point where product quality comes second/third or forth and the consumer has to suffer with hours of work to resolve this issue. If i spend $500 on a state of the art gaming system i expect that i get one, not to spend my christmas holidays running around trying to resolve Microsoft lack of beta testing. Did they even have any games to test all this stuff out or did they just have emulators, which never even tests the console. Not to say the system has to be perfect but, hardware falls under different expectations. Software companies someone can send you a fix anytime, but this guy is going to have to wait months before he gets the product he already paid for. We need to go back to the age of Form & Function, not Market Share then Form & Function. A great product sells it's self with a little marketing.
My second reason is that Microsoft is one of the worst companies when it comes to this behaviour, they need a little wake up call, since this will cost more money to make a poorly tested product than a quality product (both in Market Share and in Recalls). From all the gaming systems i have had, and let me say i have played hundreds of hour like many of you and my old/new Nintedos (which still works perfectly), PS and XBox have never once crashed. I will not buy a new gaming system if this is the future, more flaky products. I am actually glad the Sony is waiting, hopefully they spend the time beta testing.

If You don't like it, Then return it and get your money back.

parallax
12-06-2005, 06:25 PM
id say that you should upgrade from windows 98, and get something better than an e-machine.
windows doesnt crash anymore man. is it efficient with memory, and other things? not as much as other oses, but it is very stable.

heating problems on the 360 are a completely different issue, and not related to the windows OS.

Haha, yeah sure. Even the most certified $80k workstations running windows, on a proper install, crash now and then (mostly when you're in the middle of the most important project of the year)

Don't give me that crap. Software developers/Ms should be held responsible for any damages due to crashing systems.
Oh wait, the software is delivered "as is" tough luck. Have a nice time explaining that to the client.

pgp_protector
12-06-2005, 06:39 PM
Bleading Edge Tech = Blood loss at times.

JeroenDStout
12-06-2005, 06:49 PM
"Yes, you will find us Brits far behind the rest of the world in most things.. including Language and Litigation.

I personally can't wait to be able to sue my parents cos I'm ugly."
Yup, Brits were there with great English and the Americans ruined theirs whilst the Brits just kept their civilized sounding speach.





<walks away laughing with a British accent>

Oh dear, this topic is so bad :)

Simon
12-06-2005, 06:51 PM
I must agree, what what.

Simo

Spriggan12
12-06-2005, 08:02 PM
The judge will dismiss this case without merit. U cant sue for defective products. So many variables go into play. The kids or guy whose suing must ne looser. If its defective u take it back and its replaced or u get a refund.

A company as big as MS gets suits like this every day and arent even worried about it. Now Sony being sued by Texas, thats something to worry about.

Keith

Frank Lake
12-06-2005, 08:03 PM
"I wonder what damages he's seeking. Emotional distress? Does MS owe this guy money because the world isn't perfect?"

No, they owe him money becuase they took out a buggy piece of crap and made him pay $500 for it.
Yep!

It's time for the 'buyers' to start to demand what they pay for.

JeroenDStout
12-06-2005, 08:12 PM
The buyers get exactly what they pay for. Overprized hyped-up machines with bland games which are all 'approved' by Microsoft (no indies!)

Then again, I don't like consoles :)

Flog
12-06-2005, 08:20 PM
It's fun to sue, he has a chance to get his money back, a free xbox 360, and a few thousand dollars for his trouble.

That is awesome.

Microsoft does throw products out without testing and let customer's test it for them. They need to just test it right, before chunking it out on the market.

Dr. Nick
12-06-2005, 08:27 PM
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned yet but if you are having a lot problems with your xbox 360 call 1-800 4MYXBOX and tell them your situation. If they think the system needs repairs they will send a box to you to put your Xbox360 in and they will take care of shipping it to the repair center and ship it back after it has been repaired free of charge. This is very much like what Nintendo did for DS's with dead pixels unlike a certain other company.

Bliz
12-06-2005, 08:54 PM
I would first like to say that i definitely see everyone's point of view, but personally i like the fact that this guy is doing this.
The first reason is that we have reached this point where product quality comes second/third or forth and the consumer has to suffer with hours of work to resolve this issue. If i spend $500 on a state of the art gaming system i expect that i get one, not to spend my christmas holidays running around trying to resolve Microsoft lack of beta testing. <snip>

What b*ll*cks! Lets look at cars. People buy brand new Mercedes, Ferraris, Aston Martins et. al. all the time for much, much more than $500 and sometimes they don't work straight away. My old boss bought an Aston Martin and the gearbox fell out of it after two weeks of use. He didn't sue Aston Martin/Ford though, he got his money back and bought another make of car and won't buy an Aston Martin again.
With any complex item be it a car or a gaming console you are going to get defective units that aren't detected by the factory.

deadplant155
12-06-2005, 10:44 PM
**blows in cartridge and returns it to its slot**
yeah...you have to go back to the eighties to find a flaw with nintendo's systems, i think that demonstrates the point that nintendo has the most reliable hardware, dont you?

DevilHacker
12-07-2005, 01:35 AM
My gamecube broke right after I bought itů
Maybe I should sue Nintendo?
Seriously, some people are idiots. If its broke. Return it. Get an new system or your money backů
:scream:

ambient-whisper
12-07-2005, 03:09 AM
Haha, yeah sure. Even the most certified $80k workstations running windows, on a proper install, crash now and then (mostly when you're in the middle of the most important project of the year)


your point is? its obvious that you missed what i was hinting at, so ill just spell it out for ya. software will crash, but windows itself? not anymore. havent had a bsod in over 5 years now. yet it is still getting the same bad rep as it used to, back in win 98 days.

i never said that youd never have any problems with decent hardware. what i did say though, is that you can expect things to work better nowadays, as long as your hardware is decent, and your using a recent windows.

if you have a lot of problems with your machine, the windows install is probably the least of the cause.


anyway, back to the 360.

Icarus
12-07-2005, 04:36 AM
wow, love how this got off track,

Same deal here in aus,

if something breaks, you return it, simple

parallax
12-07-2005, 08:06 AM
your point is? its obvious that you missed what i was hinting at, so ill just spell it out for ya. software will crash, but windows itself? not anymore. havent had a bsod in over 5 years now. yet it is still getting the same bad rep as it used to, back in win 98 days.

i never said that youd never have any problems with decent hardware. what i did say though, is that you can expect things to work better nowadays, as long as your hardware is decent, and your using a recent windows.

if you have a lot of problems with your machine, the windows install is probably the least of the cause.


anyway, back to the 360.

Maybe YOU missed the point. Believe me, i know how to build and install systems, let alone use one. Some of the workstations crash WITHOUT any 3rd party software running. These are Windows issues wether you like it or not. That said, on average, XP has been running like a charm compared to previous versions. (apart from the odd crash)

Oh, and just in case you thought a i was an Apple fanboy: I'm not. As a matter of fact, Tiger is as stable/Unstable as XP.

But hey, who am i.

E_Moelzer
12-07-2005, 12:01 PM
Hey Parallax, even with the risk of defending MS here, I would say that unmotivated crashes of the OS rather hint to a Hardware or driver - problem than the OS itself. Most likely a Hardware problem.

Common problems I experienced: RAM (about 1/4 of all Ram Sinks out there are broken, try Simmtester). Motherboard, Powersupply...
I also had two deffective Harddrives from Seagate recently (which is odd, since they used to be the most relyable ones for many years). To me it seems like hardware is just produced to cheaply recently...
CU
Elmar

gunslingerblack
12-07-2005, 02:39 PM
just speaking up for the rest of the american populous.

most of the people here would infact return thier console if it was broken.

i think the problem lies in the fact that microsoft sold x amount of presales on the xbox360 and then cut production to way less than x. the problem is noone has any systems to replace the xbox360 with. while i agree with most people about not buying generation 1 of a system, i can also understand this is a very frustrating position to be in.

so you see, he CANT return his console. and while its stupid for him to sue over this he now has a 400 dollar piece of useless hardware sitting in his house.

i think microsoft has to take part of the responsibility for rushing this product to market but i do agree that it's alittle stupid to sue over it.

it's always the worst minority of the people that you hear about in any country lol please dont judge us lol.

Dr. Nick
12-07-2005, 02:43 PM
The thing is did he try to get Microsoft to repair the console? Like I said before they repair it for free. I would say that Microsoft is taking responsibility by doing so.

gunslingerblack
12-07-2005, 02:59 PM
seeks unspecified damages and litigation-related expenses, as well as the replacement or recall of Xbox 360 game consoles.


i guess so. i dont know from experience but the matter of having an xbox shipped out to be fixed has been parodied in vgcats, apparently it takes a while.

no experience on the matter so dont quote me on that, i dont like the whole deal with microsoft so i wont buy an xbox or an xbox 360.

Womball
12-07-2005, 03:36 PM
My gamecube broke right after I bought itů
Maybe I should sue Nintendo?
Seriously, some people are idiots. If its broke. Return it. Get an new system or your money backů
:scream:

I haven't heard of too many Nintendo systems breaking though. Your one of the only I have heard about it.

laiels
12-07-2005, 04:58 PM
You mean, he can't exchange it. Why wouldn't he be able to return it for his money back? just speaking up for the rest of the american populous.

most of the people here would infact return thier console if it was broken.

i think the problem lies in the fact that microsoft sold x amount of presales on the xbox360 and then cut production to way less than x. the problem is noone has any systems to replace the xbox360 with. while i agree with most people about not buying generation 1 of a system, i can also understand this is a very frustrating position to be in.

so you see, he CANT return his console. and while its stupid for him to sue over this he now has a 400 dollar piece of useless hardware sitting in his house.

i think microsoft has to take part of the responsibility for rushing this product to market but i do agree that it's alittle stupid to sue over it.

it's always the worst minority of the people that you hear about in any country lol please dont judge us lol.

gavin_hughes
12-07-2005, 05:57 PM
<sarcasm>I mean...damn...that pre-rendered killzone trailer, that really showed the raw power of the console.<sarcasm> It's pretty dumb to judge the graphical capability of any of these consoles before the console/games are released.

.

agree.

and those were rendered like 1 frame every 5 hours or something....

gunslingerblack
12-07-2005, 06:35 PM
as far as i know (from working in retail from the ages of 16 to 23)

most stores and especially when a system is released, adopt a "no returns on opened electronics merchandise" policy. to prevent people from trying to pull a fast one by putting bricks or rocks or heavy objects in boxes and returning them. (im not joking when i was an asst manager at kb toys at the local mall one of my employees allowed an exchange on a ps2 that was full of rocks.) and various other dishonest behaviors. so he probably isn't allowed to return his merchandise.

CupOWonton
12-07-2005, 07:28 PM
i iddn't have all the details myself, i just heard that it was just too strong, so that if it was reading the same area for a long period of time, that would happen. there were a numbe rof problems, but i don't rememebr them all, this one wasn't really that common. certainly compared to the over heating and other issues. but it was one of the most amusing.

Pretty much any CD or DVD drive can burn into a CD, wood, plastic...

My friend ripped a CD drive appart, and burned his name into his work desk.

Its probably got something to do with how much power youre allowing to go through it before it burns up or shorts out.

pgp_protector
12-07-2005, 08:20 PM
Pretty much any CD or DVD drive can burn into a CD, wood, plastic...

My friend ripped a CD drive appart, and burned his name into his work desk.

Its probably got something to do with how much power youre allowing to go through it before it burns up or shorts out.

Where are you getting these lasers ?

Most lasers in CD Drive equipment in in the mw Range, to burn a desk, you would need a lot more power than any Laser LED could produce before burning out.

pgp_protector
12-07-2005, 08:35 PM
Follow Up info on laser power

http://ehs.uky.edu/radiation/laser_fs.html

Class I lasers are low powered devices that are considered safe from all potential hazards. Some examples of Class I laser use are: laser printers, CD players, CD ROM devices, geological survey equipment and laboratory analytical equipment. No individual, regardless of exposure conditions to the eyes or skin, would be expected to be injured by a Class I laser. No safety requirements are needed to use Class I laser devices.


Class IV lasers are high power (c.w. >500mW or pulsed >10J/cm▓) devices. Some examples of Class IV laser use are surgery, research, drilling, cutting, welding, and micromachining. The direct beam and diffuse reflections from Class IV lasers are hazardous to the eyes and skin. Class IV laser devices can also be a fire hazard depending on the reaction of the target when struck. Much greater controls are required to ensure the safe operation of this class of laser devices. Whenever occupying a laser controlled area, wear the proper eye protection. Most laser eye injuries occur from reflected beams of class IV laser light, so keep all reflective materials away from the beam. Do not place your hand or any other body part into the class IV laser beam. The pain and smell of burned flesh will let you know if this happens. Realize the dangers involved in the use of Class IV lasers and please use common sense. Refer to the University of Kentucky Laser Safety Manual for complete instructions on the safety requirements for Class IV laser use.


I dont think ANY one is putting Class 4 Lasers in there CD/DVD Drives.

CupOWonton
12-07-2005, 08:48 PM
Yet the ex-EA guy states planely that the CD's were infact being burned.

Chances are a lot of those class 1 lasers have power regulation to make sure they dont start damaging discs or burning into the plastic casing.

pgp_protector
12-07-2005, 09:03 PM
Yet the ex-EA guy states planely that the CD's were infact being burned.

Chances are a lot of those class 1 lasers have power regulation to make sure they dont start damaging discs or burning into the plastic casing.
Nope, totally diffrent design.

More likley the Lens that focuses the Laser was poping up and scratching a ring in the disk.

Simon
12-07-2005, 09:12 PM
Nope, totally diffrent design.

More likley the Lens that focuses the Laser was poping up and scratching a ring in the disk.

Agreed. the "burn" could be caused by the friction caused by the high rotation speeds.

CupOWonton
12-07-2005, 10:08 PM
Google - Several laser manufacturer sites state people can modify even low level legal lasers to level IIII by modifying the power source or the 'pot', again backing up the 'power regulation failure' theory causing the burns. They of course dont state specifics on how to make a dangerous laser out of a pointer, but apparently its possible.

pgp_protector
12-07-2005, 10:09 PM
Google - Several laser manufacturer sites state people can modify even low level legal lasers to level IIII by modifying the power source or the 'pot', again backing up the 'power regulation failure' theory causing the burns. They of course dont state specifics on how to make a dangerous laser out of a pointer, but apparently its possible.

You got a link to back that up ?

laiels
12-07-2005, 10:13 PM
Yeah, but if someone rips apart his Playstation and "modifies" the laser which causes burns in his cd's can you really blame Sony for this?
I can "modify" the jack daniels I bought by adding nyquil to it. If I then drink it and OD and kill myself, is Jack Daniels to blame?

CupOWonton
12-07-2005, 10:39 PM
www.Google.com Happy hunting.

Just varry the search on Modified Lasers or Pointers that can Burn and such and you'll come across a plethora of warnings about modified laser pointers. It seems even legal lasers can have problems if they are just exposed to an area too long.

So I believe its possible to burn a CD with a defective/modified CD reader, though if its just the plastic surface that was distorted, then yes, I would believe its a lense or other part grinding against the disc.

pgp_protector
12-07-2005, 10:51 PM
www.Google.com (http://www.Google.com) Happy hunting.

Just varry the search on Modified Lasers or Pointers that can Burn and such and you'll come across a plethora of warnings about modified laser pointers. It seems even legal lasers can have problems if they are just exposed to an area too long.

So I believe its possible to burn a CD with a defective/modified CD reader, though if its just the plastic surface that was distorted, then yes, I would believe its a lense or other part grinding against the disc.

Thing is those laser pointers are using a Class IIIb laser to start with not a Class I laser as found in CD Players.

CupOWonton
12-07-2005, 11:52 PM
Ok, maybe you need to see it again by a .gov then.

http://www-esh.fnal.gov/FESHM/5000/5062_1.htm


HAZARD CLASS 1


a.Description
Any laser that requires more than eight hours of direct eye exposure to produce an injury. Considered harmless. The maximum output of a class 1 visible wavelength CW laser ranges from 40 to 400 mW, depending on wavelength.

b.Precautions
Usually none. However problems may arise if the laser is modified in a way that may increase its output or there is an embedded laser that has a higher hazard class. If these are encountered, follow the precautions for the appropriate hazard class



And many of those sites already stated that class 1's are not -CONSIDERED- dangerous under "natural working conditions"(un modified/ no tampering/ not defective).

Meaning modified or defective Class 1's are no longer class 1's. And they simply state that a modification of the power output is all thats needed. A surge or change in the power input can ultimately mess with the laser's intensity, though its likely shorten its lifespan dramaticly as it will probably burn out like other electronics do under extreme power modifications.

EpShot
12-08-2005, 12:01 AM
i won't say that it wasn't the lens popping up, but what i was "hearing" was that there was too much power output. but that migh thave jsut been the circulatign theory, since, sony was denying that 'anythign' was happening.. tho they weren't as bad as HP *shudders*

i may be wrong, but, i believe the only real differance in differnt classes of lasers is power out put. in some case differnt wave lengths, but thinking back to physics class, i don't see what would stop you from beign able to take a low level laser and increase the energy input into it.

JeroenDStout
12-08-2005, 12:19 AM
i won't say that it wasn't the lens popping up, but what i was "hearing" was that there was too much power output. but that migh thave jsut been the circulatign theory, since, sony was denying that 'anythign' was happening.. tho they weren't as bad as HP *shudders*

i may be wrong, but, i believe the only real differance in differnt classes of lasers is power out put. in some case differnt wave lengths, but thinking back to physics class, i don't see what would stop you from beign able to take a low level laser and increase the energy input into it.
I think the same thing that stops you from taking a 100 db stereo and making it louder by 'increasing the energy imput' :)

Boone
12-08-2005, 07:18 PM
Maybe he was refused a refund, exchange or whatever. There maybe another factor we don't know about - it seems far fetched that any Lawyer would go into court on such a claim... :hmm:

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