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View Full Version : EDITORIAL: Degrees in Video Game Design "Kidnap American Education"


RobertoOrtiz
12-05-2005, 09:14 PM
by Ted Rueter, Assistant Professor of Political Science at DePauw University, Greencastle, Indiana

Quote:

"Video game design as a college major? It's yet another sign of the coming of the apocalypse. Schools of higher learning are simply cashing in on a fad that is destructive to society.
Electronic Arts, the nation's largest game maker, has led the way in encouraging ivy-stained institutions to teach the design of such games as Grand Theft Auto, World of Warcraft, Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, and Mortal Kombat. Last year, the company contributed millions of dollars to establish a three-year master of fine arts program in "interactive entertainment" at USC."

http://www.collegenews.org/x5107.xml


-R

PS This thread will be fun....

Hazdaz
12-05-2005, 09:21 PM
Meh.

He's entitled to his opinion. As long as he doesn't cross the line like that Lawyer guy (Jack?) I have no problems with what he is saying. I might not necissarily agree with it, but whatever.

jeremybirn
12-05-2005, 09:53 PM
Whatever.

(I'd say the same thing about MBA's, but that's just my opinion.)

-jeremy

gunslingerblack
12-05-2005, 10:08 PM
what a tool, everyone knows college is bullshit anyways, and if you dont know, it's cuz u haven't went to college yet.

Hazdaz
12-05-2005, 10:12 PM
what a tool, everyone knows college is bullshit anyways, and if you dont know, it's cuz u haven't GONE to college yet.

Fixed that for ya, Mr. CollegeSucks.

Bonedaddy
12-05-2005, 10:31 PM
Fixed that for ya, Mr. CollegeSucks.

You win at the internet.

Lorecanth
12-05-2005, 10:52 PM
There are reasons I ran screaming from ohio...midwestern conservative universities are scary scary places.

gunslingerblack
12-05-2005, 10:57 PM
haha i'll leave it as it stands

however quite ironic me trying to make a point about college sucking with bad grammar

im getting a laugh at my own expense

and bonedaddy, lol that was a clutch pickup

mummey
12-05-2005, 10:57 PM
There are reasons I ran screaming from ohio...midwestern conservative universities are scary scary places.

Agreed. I lost a friend to Albion.

Clearly these kids should go into more respected and better paying fields, like political science. ;) :D

mummey
12-05-2005, 11:02 PM
Nevermind: Its better that I be a good forum user.

JeroenDStout
12-05-2005, 11:03 PM
Though to be fair, it is odd EA is teaching people in gamedesign. Last time I saw a good game coming from EA I was in a temporal paradox where somehow an alternative universe was invented in which everything was reversed and EA made the best games ever and had the company rule to 'ban sequals'. That was the sign for me oveconsumation of drugs really is bad for you.

Ckerr812
12-05-2005, 11:09 PM
You win at the internet.

lol... :D *inserted because message is to short*!

arctor
12-05-2005, 11:13 PM
:rolleyes:
replace the words 'video game' with 'film/television' and you'll have the same article...and the same specious argument...
there are college/university course on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Star Trek :shrug:
the one bad thing about people majoring in Video Game Desing is that it will fill the workforce with idiots who think they're hot shit - but don't actually know anything...heh heh same goes for film school I think :)

Ckerr812
12-05-2005, 11:18 PM
:rolleyes:
replace the words 'video game' with 'film/television' and you'll have the same article...and the same specious argument...
there are college/university course on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Star Trek :shrug:
the one bad thing about people majoring in Video Game Desing is that it will fill the workforce with idiots who think they're hot shit - but don't actually know anything...heh heh same goes for film school I think :)

I agree, but we live in a capitalistic society....If there are tons and tons of people that are willing to pay for "Buffy the vampire courses" and these, be a game designer in 6 months courses....

Then what can you do? Eventually people will realize these courses don't get you a job and stop paying for them.

Until then it looks like these schools are going to make a quick buck off the naive people willing to pay thousands of dollars.

Bonedaddy
12-05-2005, 11:22 PM
:rolleyes:
replace the words 'video game' with 'film/television' and you'll have the same article...and the same specious argument...
there are college/university course on Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Star Trek :shrug:
the one bad thing about people majoring in Video Game Desing is that it will fill the workforce with idiots who think they're hot shit - but don't actually know anything...heh heh same goes for film school I think :)

What's funny is that the Interactive Media program they talk about at USC is actually a division of the School of Cinema-Television.

Dagibit
12-05-2005, 11:35 PM
Who cares? Their all just ignorant fools. How the hell should they know what goes into the making of a successful game? anyone ignorant enough to call the game industry a fad is a complete moron, considering that it's only grew since pac-man. Idiot.

Per-Anders
12-05-2005, 11:35 PM
potentially he's right though. get past the preconceptions about what you guys think his political/moral stance is and the fundamental part is that these are degrees in obsoletion.

a fine art degree is going to be far more useful than a degree in any software package for instance. why? simply put: the pace of technology.

my father is a graphic designer, his advice to me on going to university was - if you want to be a good graphic designer, then do a fine art degree, not a graphic design degree. his reasoning was that fine arts was firstly broader, graphic design you're taught a style, the current trend... so what happens when trends change?

fine art is less incestuously about mimicking what's already been done, or being part of the current pack, it wasn't technology based but based on creativity and conceptuality. in other words it teaches more flexibility and transferable skills that are useable in any arts based field. and he was right (not that i consider myself to be that good a graphic designer, but perhaps my own aims have changed, and the skills i picked up were far more useful than if i'd have specialised in learning how to do things the same way as other people are doing them now, rather than trying to work out how to do things for myself and how things might be in the future).

Artbot
12-06-2005, 01:44 AM
This guy's ridiculous rant notwithstanding, "video game design" schools are a huge waste of money. That said, I think I'll start my own school. A fool and his money are soon parted, so I might as well be the one who takes it from him.

pogonip
12-06-2005, 02:15 AM
I'll tell you what also , i'd take a guy who made a good MOD for a game like Neverwinter Nights or Half-Life 2 or whatever over some kid who went and got a degree in Game Design .Game Mod making is the school of Hard Knocks and a good MOD is your PHD in kicking ass at it .

FloydBishop
12-06-2005, 02:47 AM
I wonder what that guy WANTED to be when he grew up?

ntmonkey
12-06-2005, 03:14 AM
That article isn't even remotely about college. It's a game-bashing article. Somebody should ask him if Jack Thompson's hand tickle when it's shoved up his a$$.

peace,

Lu

PhilOsirus
12-06-2005, 03:19 AM
I'm going to such a school myself.

I can tell (and this is no publicity, just an opinion) that it can be worth it, but in the end it's Russia Roulette. Most such schools cost money, a lot of money, and you will never know until you paid if it was worth it or not. In my case it's free, Ubisoft and the government pay for it, otherwise I would have never paid the 10,000$ it cost to spend a year in such a school due to the risk of it not being sufficient to make me a skilled modeler/animator/level designer whom could find himself a job in the industry. A year is long for someone aiming to work in video games, and if you spend that time in a made-up school that is selling diplomas and the likes rather than actually training people you might as well stay at home, buy yourself a 3D app (paying for it should motivate you enough not to give up halfway through) or a game like Half-Life or Unreal (I recommend the later due the state of the industry at the moment), and learn it through. Keep on working on your 2D skills or programming skills as well, whichever you've had a good taste of already.

In my case, I'm glad I chose to go to such a school, I know it's worth it, even more so for those whom are in the animation and level design class, but I can't expect a piece of paper to be my entry card to the industry. I have to work my ass off during all my freetime because if you think you are learning enough at such a school, you aren't. In 2006, you are competing with the world, not just your class mates or the school next door, to enter an ever-shrinking door to a job*. That's something worth understanding before spending money and time in such studies.

*EDIT: Oh, and if you never had any experience in 3D or MODs before, my advice would be to get all the experience you can first, a year of such experience at least if you can handle it money and time-wise. Learning everything you can.

pixelmonk
12-06-2005, 05:59 PM
Meh.

He's entitled to his opinion. As long as he doesn't cross the line like that Lawyer guy (Jack?) I have no problems with what he is saying. I might not necissarily agree with it, but whatever.

"as long as he doesn't cross the line.... but whatever" <---? ? So what are you trying to say? You sound like you may do something.. but then.. well.. whatever?

And.. "meh" died 2 years ago.

Hazdaz
12-06-2005, 06:36 PM
"as long as he doesn't cross the line.... but whatever" <---? ? So what are you trying to say? You sound like you may do something.. but then.. well.. whatever?

And.. "meh" died 2 years ago.
:curious:
No have idea what is so hard to understand here. Everyone is entitled to his opinion - as long as this guy doesn't turn into another extremist that represents a tiny minority, yet is very 'forceful' and very vocal and gets unwarranted media coverage and such - like our Lawyer 'friend'. If he thinks that games are "evil" then so be it - I can care less. Just don't push those views onto everyone else that thinks that games are fun.


Either way I am very glad that you are here to tell us what words are "in". :rolleyes:

Craiger
12-06-2005, 09:01 PM
Might as well shift the blame to the game industry becuase you failed as a parent.

Since we're at it... i'd like to blame television for making me lazy, McDonalds for making me fat, College for making me poor, work for giving me headaches, mother nature for making me cold, and finaly the internet for making me read this thread.

I had no control over it what so ever.


werd up.

slaughters
12-06-2005, 10:14 PM
Whatever.

(I'd say the same thing about MBA's, but that's just my opinion.)

-jeremyEspecially ones in Political Science :)

K-Sin
12-06-2005, 10:20 PM
Sounds like the courses teaching game-design in the States are terrible! I may have to re look at where I was going to go. Maybe stay and rethink my options, if I have any now.
Bugger:sad:

I knew it would become a popular industry to get into but this is nuts. Any suggestions for an industry to get into, other than the game industry?

FloydBishop
12-06-2005, 10:30 PM
And.. "meh" died 2 years ago.

I say "meh" all the time. It will continue to live on in my heart.

Schwinnz
12-06-2005, 10:33 PM
Nevermind: It's better that I be a good forum user.
Sorry for the off topic, but is that a real english form? Seems like a lot of people use it and I can't find how it's called anywhere. Wouldn't it be that I am? Someone please explain to lil'me.

JeroenDStout
12-06-2005, 11:09 PM
It always confuses me when someone asks, but I think it's;
It's better to be a good forum user / It's better that I am a good forum user

Or if you want to talk in future terms;
It's better that I would be a good forum user

PhilOsirus
12-06-2005, 11:44 PM
Sounds like the courses teaching game-design in the States are terrible! I may have to re look at where I was going to go. Maybe stay and rethink my options, if I have any now.
Bugger:sad:

I knew it would become a popular industry to get into but this is nuts. Any suggestions for an industry to get into, other than the game industry?

By no means is it impossible to work in the video game industry, it is just a question of analyzing the state of the industry, check what skills are needed in this industry and what interests you among said skills (that's very important so you don't end up in a program that does not match your expectations), and find out our serious the school(s) you are hoping to apply to really are. A good reel is the best tool you can use to find a job, and you have to ask yourself if a school could help you enough to come up with a demo of good quality that could enable you to find a job in a known studio.

Once you make a decision toward working in this industry, just keep on learning, don't expect a school to be the answer to all of your needs (even if it's a great school). Find out what is coming for the game industry in the field you want to study in and start learning in it in advance. It takes some efforts yes, but there are jobs available.

SalmonGod
12-07-2005, 12:33 AM
ack... Greencastle, Indiana... Indiana is a black hole in the world sucking intelligence and morality from it to be lost forever in oblivion... I've lived in Indiana most of my life... a few minutes from Greencastle from age 8 to 16... it's a creepy creepy place and I'm apalled that anybody's opinion from that area managed to get major media exposure... I still only live 45 minutes away from that place... not far enough...

but IUPUI's New Media program in Indianapolis is really teaching me alot that I think will be useful when I finally break out and attempt to get a CG job... I know it's not a free ticket to a job, but it's still a great way to get me started learning where to begin, what to expect, and gauging my own potential

my 3d instructor is the one who pointed me to CGTalk and I'm grateful for that :)

Frank Lake
12-07-2005, 12:44 PM
by Ted Rueter, Assistant Professor of Political Science at DePauw University, Greencastle, Indiana

Quote:

"Video game design as a college major?
As aposed to a PHD in English Literature or English Language? Just yet another snob vs snob agruement.

phexitol
12-07-2005, 03:36 PM
Like a couple of above posters pointed out: the article has far less to do with a videogame design course being truly worth one's time than it does with the author pushing his anti-videogame agenda. But then, he is a political science professor. Also note, a Google search reveals the following:

DePauw University: Uncommon Success in the Liberal Arts (http://www.depauw.edu/)

No further comment.

mummey
12-07-2005, 04:28 PM
Sorry for the off topic, but is that a real english form? Seems like a lot of people use it and I can't find how it's called anywhere. Wouldn't it be that I am? Someone please explain to lil'me.

I don't speak english, I speak gibberish.

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12-07-2005, 04:28 PM
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