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L.Rawlins
12-03-2005, 02:41 PM
http://www.neowin.net/forum/uploads/post-41514-1133502981.jpg


'There’s no official announcement yet, but apparently Dell is going to roll out a massive 30-inch LCD monitor to compete with Apple’s lust-inducing 30-inch Cinema Display. The 3007WFP is said to have a a resolution of 2560 x 1600 (that’s WQXGA, baby!), a 14ms response time, 400cd/m2 brightness, 700:1 contrast ratio, support for HDCP, and a built-in 4-port USB hub and 9-in-1 multimedia card reader. No price, but it should hit North America on December 21st, which means you’ll have to choose between buying Christmas presents for your loved ones or buying yourself one sweet LCD panel.'

-LINK 01- (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000240070831/) -LINK 02- (http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=403932)

Hazdaz
12-03-2005, 04:00 PM
OMG I think I just soiled myself.

I am not an LCD fan in the slightest bit, but CRTs would never be practical in these massive sizes.... so I am ready to be a convert!

That thing has got to cost a ton though.

rocarpen
12-03-2005, 04:51 PM
Well it's Dell, so you know it's going to cost a few hundred less than Apple's offering.

Apple 30" : $2,499
Dell 30": ???

I'm guessing $2,099? And of course, there are the wonderful Dell sales and coupons to take advantage of.

L.Rawlins
12-03-2005, 05:02 PM
This proposed/rumoured new release should ideally knock a couple of hundred off of 'lesser models' that consumers may have been eyeing up recently too.

thedaemon
12-03-2005, 05:29 PM
And here I thought my dell 24" was big. Darnit stop making larger lcds!!! I hate having to upgrade all the time!

ngrava
12-03-2005, 06:47 PM
We have nine Apple 30" Cinema displays here at work and they are nothing short of incredible! I'm working on one right now and I love it. Some people say that they still prefer to have two CRT's and I used to think the same thing until I got one and now CRT's look so small in comparison.

L.Rawlins
12-03-2005, 06:56 PM
We have nine Apple 30" Cinema displays here at work and they are nothing short of incredible! I'm working on one right now and I love it. Some people say that they still prefer to have two CRT's and I used to think the same thing until I got one and now CRT's look so small in comparison.

What's the colour representation like?

NUKE-CG
12-03-2005, 08:57 PM
Was only a year ago I bought my 2001FP, since they've jumped to 24" and now 30".

I'm about 50% glad that things are evolving, and the rest filled with envy. :shrug:

Hazdaz
12-03-2005, 09:05 PM
Was only a year ago I bought my 2001FP, since they've jumped to 24" and now 30".

I'm about 50% glad that things are evolving, and the rest filled with envy. :shrug:
Well I really don't see monitors getting much bigger than 30" though. Already 21" screens fill most of your vision area when sitting at a normal desk and the screen is a normal distance away.

At a screen much bigger than 30" it is going to be more than you can see withouth moving your head around - which is probably be uncomfortable. So you are either going to have to move away from the screen to take it all in, or 30" might be near the practical limit.... atleast with the way that we use a computer today. Eventually we will have wall-sized monitors, but when that happens, we will be sitting quite a few feet away to take it all in.

rakmaya
12-03-2005, 09:57 PM
Well, may be. I knew a guy who works in a bio medical research and he can't use small monitors any more. Anything less than 30 is just too small for him. He was used to seeing those big wall mount screen, he said it just feels weired looking at smaller ones.

thethule
12-04-2005, 12:07 AM
COOL! Anything that forces apple to drop their ludicrous prices is good in my book. Looks great.


marc

Shaderhacker
12-04-2005, 12:22 AM
Wow! well, I just ordered my new Dell computer last week with 24" monitor, so I am happy. The 30" would be out of my price range anyway..

Go Dell!

-M

mummey
12-04-2005, 01:07 AM
If only they could make their computers as good as their LCD's these days... ;)




Oh! Did it just get a little warm in here? :twisted:

L.Rawlins
12-04-2005, 01:24 AM
If only they could make their computers as good as their LCD's these days... ;)




Oh! Did it just get a little warm in here? :twisted:

It's called 'hot air'. Right about now, you're blowing it. http://www.madmforums.com/images/smilies/yawn.gif

Hazdaz
12-04-2005, 01:39 AM
I actually have been saying what MUMMEY mentioned for quite some time... I would never buy a DELL desktop, but if I was gonna buy an LCD screen, DELL would be the first place to go.

L.Rawlins
12-04-2005, 01:49 AM
I actually have been saying what MUMMEY mentioned for quite some time... I would never buy a DELL desktop, but if I was gonna buy an LCD screen, DELL would be the first place to go.

Whatever floats your boat. :shrug:

Beamtracer
12-04-2005, 01:49 AM
[comment edited]
In my original comment I thought the Apple display could display interlaced video, by converting it to a 60Hz progressive frame rate, to display the full motion resolution an interlaced video, using digital SDI connectors. Apparently this is not so, and the SDI connection is an optional add-on.

Original post deleted.

L.Rawlins
12-04-2005, 01:57 AM
Apple is big among video professionals.

Apple's larger Cinema Displays are capable of showing 'interlaced' High Definition video images, as well as regular 'progressive' images from a computer. This has tremendous advantages for those doing video work.

Any monitor which is incapable of displaying interlaced images is unsuitable for video work. I have not read through the specs of Dell's monitor, so I don't know what it's capable of, but little details like switching between interlaced / progressive images is worth it checking before purchasing.

If it is setting itself up as a direct competitor to the 30" Apple display though, you could be forgiven for assuming that at the very least it would match its rival, spec for spec.

Hazdaz
12-04-2005, 02:03 AM
Apple is big among video professionals.

Apple's larger Cinema Displays are capable of showing 'interlaced' High Definition video images, as well as regular 'progressive' images from a computer. This has tremendous advantages for those doing video work.

Any monitor which is incapable of displaying interlaced images is unsuitable for video work. I have not read through the specs of Dell's monitor, so I don't know what it's capable of, but little details like switching between interlaced / progressive images is worth it checking before purchasing.

So how does it show interlaced video? Does it actually do it the way a regular old TV would do it (by updating the odd rows, then the even rows) or does it still update teh screen progressively and just compute the interlaced signal internally?

Maybe it's just me but it's just very odd that we have advanced so far in terms of technology that we normally wouldn't have to deal with such antiquated methods as interlaced video, except for the fact that they are part of legacy standards.

Either way, I would not be shocked to hear that both the Apple display and this Dell 30" display are actually made by the same Taiwanese manufacturer. Doesn't mean that they will have the exact same features, but we'll see in about 3 weeks.

Crazzy Legs
12-04-2005, 04:30 AM
compared to a Full Frame HD production monitor, the 30 inch cinema display is cheap, since it can work as a normal computer monitor. Its a great deal if you can use it to its full advantage.

leuey
12-04-2005, 05:10 AM
omg Beamtracer what on earth are you talking about now? No LCD's or CRT's (nowadays) are interalaced AT ALL - they can all display interlaced video - it's just not interlaced in the true sense of the word like a 60 fields per second TV is. Furthermore - ATI and Nvidia cards aren't outputting interlaced video either - regardless of what your monitor is doing (with the exception of TV outs (maybe) and the component outs on the pro Quadro genlock boards used in the discreet linux systems) There's nothing special about Apple's monitors that allow them to do the impossible. And nobody on the planet is using an Apple LCD to check interlaced video - you use it for your editing app and you use a Sony PVM/BMV series (or similar) to display your output video. You can use an Apple (or any other brand) LCD as an output for 1080i using something like Blackmagic's converter - but it's not the same thing (and even then it's not interlaced like a crt hdtv would be..)

Please.....

If you want a Dell to Apple LCD comparison look here

http://www.barefeats.com/lcd.html

the Dell is clearly superior and this is coming from a MAC ENTHUSIAST SITE!

-Greg






Any monitor which is incapable of displaying interlaced images is unsuitable for video work. I have not read through the specs of Dell's monitor, so I don't know what it's capable of, but little details like switching between interlaced / progressive images is worth it checking before purchasing.

BillB
12-04-2005, 07:28 AM
Well it's Dell, so you know it's going to cost a few hundred less than Apple's offering.
Apple 30" : $2,499
Dell 30": ??? Wasn't the Dell 24" about half the price of it's competitors when released? One can but hope :) This is great news for anyone doing HD work - room for a picture AND an interface, on a monitor the common man can (hopefully) afford.

BillB
12-04-2005, 07:37 AM
Wot? No pivot? Just when I thought the perfect "Elevator Action" monitor had come out :D

Beamtracer
12-04-2005, 09:57 AM
No LCD's or CRT's (nowadays) are interalaced AT ALL - they can all display interlaced video - it's just not interlaced in the true sense of the word like a 60 fields per second TV is. Furthermore - ATI and Nvidia cards aren't outputting interlaced video either - regardless of what your monitor is doing

Some LCDs can show the full motion and resolution of a video signal, some can't. Most regular computer monitors can't, so they just display every second video field, which reduces resolution by half.

True, some screens double the frame rate to show a good representation of the video signal.

What's interesting about the Apple 23" Cinema display is that in addition to the standard DVI inputs, it also has a HD-SDI input. SDI is a broadcast video connector that you don't see in home systems.

So the video signal doesn't go through your ATI or nvidia card.

beaker
12-04-2005, 10:33 AM
COOL! Anything that forces apple to drop their ludicrous prices is good in my book. Looks great.You do know that NEC, LG, Phillips, etc... all make 30" lcd's monitors that cost a little cheaper then Apple's 30" (around 2,200, vs apples 2,500) but they only do a crappy 1280 x 768, where Apple's does 2560x1600 (ie, they are all worthless).

Even at the 23" lcd, dell is the only one that makes a cheap one and Apple is the next up in price. Sony & Samsung's 23" lcd costs around $1,600, vs Apples at $1,300.

Lone Deranger
12-04-2005, 12:21 PM
Alright, here's a question: What kind of video card solution would one need to drive a 2560x1600 resolution? Keeping in mind that the DVI standard can do a (theoretical?) max. of 1920x1280? I know Apple has some kind of dual-DVI link thingy going, but I remember reading it being a lot more difficult for PC users to squeeze the top resolution out of their 30" ACD's.
It would be nice to know if there will be a variety of top of the line GeForce and Quadro cards out there capable of driving the signal. SLI perhaps???

beaker
12-04-2005, 12:29 PM
6800 or 7800 with 256 meg of ram does the job just fine. Just need a Dual link DVI-D card(can't run analog monitors though without a very expensive convertor).

nitindesign
12-04-2005, 12:54 PM
I had a feeling that something was around the corner with discounts being offered on the 24" Dell. Glad I did not order the 24". Will see how much this one costs.

EDIT-

Not directly related to the actual Dell monitor but I found this information. What is it's relevance?

From the November 2005 issue of PC World (http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122738,00.asp)

imashination
12-04-2005, 01:19 PM
Beam, please, you're practically just making stuff up now. Apple screens do not display interlaced footage, they have absolutely no interlacing abilities in the slightest. The computer deinterlaces everything before it is sent out via whichever pulldown method works best. If you like you can send out the raw interlaced fields to the screen, but the monitor won't do anything special with them. It won't simulate a fading phosphorous image scanning down the screen and it don't sync down to 50Hz or 59.9Hz either.

They do not have HD-SDI connectors on them, they simply don't exist, they're not there, frankly you're just lying about them.

It *supports* interlaced footage because the computer is de-interlacing it it first, just like every other computer on the planet.
It *supports* sdi if you purchase a seperate converter box, just like every other display on the planet.

Laa-Yosh
12-04-2005, 01:24 PM
At a screen much bigger than 30" it is going to be more than you can see withouth moving your head around - which is probably be uncomfortable. So you are either going to have to move away from the screen to take it all in, or 30" might be near the practical limit...

People working with dual screens have to keep turning their heads as well, yet for compositing, editing, TD and even animation work it's been pretty common to use dual monitors for the past years.
I've also tried out a 30 inch apple LCD and it's simply fantastic. No need to keep scrolling with your mouse in the Outliner or graph editor, and it's just the beginning... ;)

Hazdaz
12-04-2005, 02:39 PM
People working with dual screens have to keep turning their heads as well, yet for compositing, editing, TD and even animation work it's been pretty common to use dual monitors for the past years.
I've also tried out a 30 inch apple LCD and it's simply fantastic. No need to keep scrolling with your mouse in the Outliner or graph editor, and it's just the beginning... ;)
I understand that - I have been using dual monitors (21 and 20) for many years now and find it extreme difficult to go back to just one screen.
I am just trying to imagine a monitor that is bigger than the 27" TV set that I have in my living room, and now sitting like 12" from it. :eek:
Pretty awesome - but anything much bigger than that and you are honestly going to have to start sitting farther away from it to take it all in. Which is fine by me, give my tired eyes a rest.

rocarpen
12-04-2005, 03:53 PM
Turning your head constantly is my main beef with dual monitors. I've used dual 17" CRT's @ 1280x1024, and frankly it made my neck sore. The real-estate versus cost equations are obvious, but were I to go duals again, I'd definitely get decent LCD's and put them in portrait mode. Same real estate; better orientation. Moving my eyeballs up and down beats turning my head side to side.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

L.Rawlins
12-04-2005, 04:53 PM
Turning your head constantly is my main beef with dual monitors. I've used dual 17" CRT's @ 1280x1024, and frankly it made my neck sore. The real-estate versus cost equations are obvious, but were I to go duals again, I'd definitely get decent LCD's and put them in portrait mode. Same real estate; better orientation. Moving my eyeballs up and down beats turning my head side to side.

Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

Not really no. I've been using duals for well over a year now and have never suffered any ailment from them. They are even seperated by about a monitors width from each other on two eye level wooden plinths that are a feature of the desk configuration.

I actually prefer encouraging myself to move around rather than to vegitate under the fixed glare of two screens side by side. I also tend to utilise the pivot of my chair rather than the pivot of my neck when addressing either monitor, so that I am face on with whatever I am working with.

leuey
12-04-2005, 04:54 PM
I'm a little worried about the size of a 30" screen as well. I've been using duel 21" for years - but the thing is you can really focus on one monitor and use the second for windows you don't use as often (hypergraph, etc.) but like to keep open. With a 30" display it seems like you may end up focusing on just one section of the screen.

They're cool though - no doubt about it.

-Greg

Shaderhacker
12-04-2005, 07:01 PM
If only they could make their computers as good as their LCD's these days... ;)

There's nothing wrong with their computers. They just aren't the fastest out there. But in terms of a matter of seconds faster, who notices anyway. Dell has really good added features that would cost any other system more money. I've priced the Dell against some of the other companies out there.. and you simply get more for your money (especially when including that 24" monitor and the coupons).

-M

mummey
12-04-2005, 07:15 PM
There's nothing wrong with their computers. They just aren't the fastest out there.

Dell continues to have the support system that made them so successful as a computer maker. The difference between the Dell of today, and the Dell of five years ago, is that you never had to call the support five years ago because the machines were built so well. Today, if you have purchased an Optiplex or Dimension system, you can pretty much count on the fact that its power supply will fail at least once during its lifetime and you'll have to get a new one from Dell because they are custom fit to the machines. Also, you can pretty much forget about the idea of upgrading your graphics card later on because the power supply has already been maxed out by the card it came with.

L.Rawlins
12-04-2005, 07:39 PM
Dell continues to have the support system that made them so successful as a computer maker. The difference between the Dell of today, and the Dell of five years ago, is that you never had to call the support five years ago because the machines were built so well. Today, if you have purchased an Optiplex or Dimension system, you can pretty much count on the fact that its power supply will fail at least once during its lifetime and you'll have to get a new one from Dell because they are custom fit to the machines. Also, you can pretty much forget about the idea of upgrading your graphics card later on because the power supply has already been maxed out by the card it came with.

I'm sorry, but my housemate can prove that to be a complete pile of ill-informed crap.

Hazdaz
12-04-2005, 07:40 PM
There's nothing wrong with their computers. They just aren't the fastest out there. But in terms of a matter of seconds faster, who notices anyway. Dell has really good added features that would cost any other system more money. I've priced the Dell against some of the other companies out there.. and you simply get more for your money (especially when including that 24" monitor and the coupons).

-M

I just knew this was gonna turn into a DELL sucks versus DELL is teh bestest thread.

Simply put DELLs PCs are cheap... and they are cheap for a reason - and volume discounts are NOT the only reason. DELL simply skimps on it's PCs. You will USUALLY not get the latest and greatest technology from DELL or the components are hampered in their upgradeabilty (maxed-out power supplies, or not enough memory slots, or possibly no AGP slot or not enough PCI-E slots). DELL knows that most people's eyes glaze-over when you throw computer jargon at them, so they put the big money into the few components that people know anything about - namely the CPU.

What their typical routine is to pack in the fastest speed processor into a box that has yesterday's technology in terms of memory or mother board or graphics. Then to offset some of that cost, the harddrive is full of useless crap (like demo software) and "support" it with Indian-based tech support.

Can you get a decent PC from DELL?
Absolutely. Espesially if you take the time to configure it the way you want.

Is DELL 'good-enough' for most people?
Hell yes. For probably 90% of the people out there, DELLs are fine.

But DELLs are not for anyone that is into much more demanding applications or wants to configure their PC the way they want to (not by the limited choices offered).

(ofcourse I am expecting this to turn into some big flame war, but what else is new)

L.Rawlins
12-04-2005, 07:53 PM
I just knew this was gonna turn into a DELL sucks versus DELL is teh bestest thread.

Simply put DELLs PCs are cheap... and they are cheap for a reason - and volume discounts are NOT the only reason. DELL simply skimps on it's PCs. You will USUALLY not get the latest and greatest technology from DELL or the components are hampered in their upgradeabilty (maxed-out power supplies, or not enough memory slots, or possibly no AGP slot or not enough PCI-E slots). DELL knows that most people's eyes glaze-over when you throw computer jargon at them, so they put the big money into the few components that people know anything about - namely the CPU.

What their typical routine is to pack in the fastest speed processor into a box that has yesterday's technology in terms of memory or mother board or graphics. Then to offset some of that cost, the harddrive is full of useless crap (like demo software) and "support" it with Indian-based tech support.

Can you get a decent PC from DELL?
Absolutely. Espesially if you take the time to configure it the way you want.

Is DELL 'good-enough' for most people?
Hell yes. For probably 90% of the people out there, DELLs are fine.

But DELLs are not for anyone that is into much more demanding applications or wants to configure their PC the way they want to (not by the limited choices offered).

(ofcourse I am expecting this to turn into some big flame war, but what else is new)

If that hardware mediocrity were true, they wouldn't be selling workstations... or being reviewed alongside Alienware and Boxx equivalent systems on this very site. :shrug:

Anyway, back on topic, what is the colour representation like on the ACD's? Is it getting closer to acceptability to fork out for something like these newer LCD's over a CRT for such labour?

Lorecanth
12-04-2005, 10:58 PM
Some LCDs can show the full motion and resolution of a video signal, some can't. Most regular computer monitors can't, so they just display every second video field, which reduces resolution by half.

True, some screens double the frame rate to show a good representation of the video signal.

What's interesting about the Apple 23" Cinema display is that in addition to the standard DVI inputs, it also has a HD-SDI input. SDI is a broadcast video connector that you don't see in home systems.

So the video signal doesn't go through your ATI or nvidia card.

Beam you just lost whatever credibility you ever had. Be thankful you don't have your real name attached or you'd have just lost yourself a few job opportuinities. We have every variation of pretty muc every apple monitor. None of them have HD-SDI inputs.

The only way to get HD-SDI out is a blackmagic or Kona card. Then to get it to an apple 23 inch you need another converter that takes that scales it appropriatly and displays it as a letterboxed image on the 1920x1200 apple monitor.

Blackmagic also offers an option on their new system to do 2K output to a 30 inch monitor. But again its done through a dual link DVI rather than an HD-SDI cable.

mummey
12-05-2005, 02:28 AM
If that hardware mediocrity were true, they wouldn't be selling workstations... or being reviewed alongside Alienware and Boxx equivalent systems on this very site. :shrug:


FYI: An XPS is NOT an Optiplex or Dimension system.

Beamtracer
12-05-2005, 05:57 AM
They do not have HD-SDI connectors on them, they simply don't exist, they're not there, frankly you're just lying about them.

Beam you just lost whatever credibility you ever had. Be thankful you don't have your real name attached or you'd have just lost yourself a few job opportuinities. We have every variation of pretty muc every apple monitor. None of them have HD-SDI inputs.

"Lost all my credibility", "lying"... gee guys. Strong and harsh language. It's only a discussion about a monitor.

If you're interested, here's the quote from Apple regarding HD SDI...

High Definition
The 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display allows you to view high-definition serial digital interface (HD SDI) signals used in broadcast television environments at their true intended resolution.
http://www.apple.com/displays/technology.html

I think it's time to bow out of this heated thread.

BillB
12-05-2005, 06:11 AM
http://www.apple.com/displays/technology.html Can't see anything to say it has SDI connector? Or anything about special handling of interlaced video? Got a link? Be interesting if it did do either of these.
Sorry Beam, some overly harsh language granted, but I think you mighta dropped the ball on this one, a couple of times :shrug:

leuey
12-05-2005, 06:22 AM
Well - I can't blame you for reading the Apple marketing - I have no idea how that got there without an asterix - b/c there is no built in HD-SDI port on these things (just go down to your local Apple store and take a peak) - you need a converter that's offered by a couple of different companies (and these will work w/ any LCD that can display 1920x1080). I know you're an Apple fan and all - but remember the 'fastest personal computer in the world' marketing? They tend to skate around the truth a bit.

The interlacing claim was off the charts though - might want to do a little research first.

-Greg

"Lost all my credibility", "lying"... gee guys. Strong and harsh language. It's only a discussion about a monitor.

If you're interested, here's the quote from Apple regarding HD SDI...



High Definition

The 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display allows you to view high-definition serial digital interface (HD SDI) signals used in broadcast television environments at their true intended resolution.


http://www.apple.com/displays/technology.html

I think it's time to bow out of this heated thread.

opus13
12-05-2005, 06:32 AM
well...

actually that apple statement is correct. you can view an SDI signal (provided you convert the interface medium) at its native resolution. just like my dell 24" can, or any other screen that meets the minimum specification of 1920*1080. they arent saying that the monitor allows direct attachment at all. its just quite easy for it to read it like that.

welcome to apples cleverly worded bullshit. it just sounds special when it actually isnt.

beaker
12-05-2005, 06:33 AM
High Definition
The 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display allows you to view high-definition serial digital interface (HD SDI) signals used in broadcast television environments at their true intended resolution.Nowhere does it say it has a HD SDI attachment on the monitor. What they mean is that with a 3rd party card like blackmagic, you can see 1080i/p images at full resolution on the monitor (since previous to the apple 23", most lcd displays only did 1600x1200).

opus13
12-05-2005, 06:37 AM
"Lost all my credibility", "lying"... gee guys. Strong and harsh language. It's only a discussion about a monitor.

you lose credibility when you attempt to be an authority and happen miss the mark by miles. whether the topic is a monitor or world peace, blatant demonstration of ineptitude is well... just that

:shrug:

Shaderhacker
12-05-2005, 07:27 AM
Dell continues to have the support system that made them so successful as a computer maker. The difference between the Dell of today, and the Dell of five years ago, is that you never had to call the support five years ago because the machines were built so well. Today, if you have purchased an Optiplex or Dimension system, you can pretty much count on the fact that its power supply will fail at least once during its lifetime and you'll have to get a new one from Dell because they are custom fit to the machines. Also, you can pretty much forget about the idea of upgrading your graphics card later on because the power supply has already been maxed out by the card it came with.

Awww hogwash!

I've owned a Dell Dimension 8200 for 3 years.. never has the power supply failed on me. I also have a 6800GT installed (which is my 3rd video card in the unit). I've never once had a problem with this computer (which is why I'm going back to Dell for the new one).

-M

Shaderhacker
12-05-2005, 07:30 AM
Can you get a decent PC from DELL?
Absolutely. Espesially if you take the time to configure it the way you want.

Is DELL 'good-enough' for most people?
Hell yes. For probably 90% of the people out there, DELLs are fine.



Nuff said actually.. ;)

-M

L.Rawlins
12-05-2005, 08:09 AM
FYI: An XPS is NOT an Optiplex or Dimension system.

Well done...

parallax
12-05-2005, 08:24 AM
Beamtracer, did you now Apple was the first to build a commercially available 64-bit computer?


:applause:

Beamtracer
12-05-2005, 09:20 AM
I stand corrected. I read Apple's quote stating "the 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display allows you to view high-definition serial digital interface (HD SDI) signals". You'd think that statement would mean that if you have a HD SDI cable you could plug it straight in to the monitor. They neglected to mention in the advertising that an optional converter is indeed required.
http://www.gearbox.com/assets/products/plasma/Doremi-HDVi.jpg

imashination
12-05-2005, 11:14 AM
If you're interested, here's the quote from Apple regarding HD SDI...

High Definition
The 23-inch Apple Cinema HD Display allows you to view high-definition serial digital interface (HD SDI) signals used in broadcast television environments at their true intended resolution.
http://www.apple.com/displays/technology.html


Every single post you make is a regurgitation of the apple marketing BS. Nothing you ever say is based on fact or knowledge, its always a quote from the apple website which you yourself don't even understand.

Inspiredmonkey
12-05-2005, 11:59 AM
We have a couple of the Dell 24" and a Apple 30", I personally think the apple beats the dell for clarity, colour and viewing angle hands down no contest, but the dells were really good value for money. Aslo the dells have the advantage of HD component in, so you can plug a HDCam player straight in and view glorious uncompressed 1080i Hd, which is amazing.

Im sure the 30" dells will be great value for money but I would rather save and spend the extra on an apple if i was buying myself.

just my 2 pence.

Carl

halo
12-05-2005, 12:04 PM
would be nice if it had an HDMI input

and theres nothing wrong with Dells, the whole studio runs on them here...if they go wrong an engineer turns up with the parts the next day or you get a new one if they cant do it in 2 days...pretty good service. Yes you can get faster, yes you can get cheaper...but the mix of reliability, price, speed and support suit us to the ground.

Pricing an alienware with a slightly slower gfx card and 1gb less ram with the dell systems we just bought, the dells were 25% cheaper. Works for us. :)

Shaderhacker
12-05-2005, 02:55 PM
We have a couple of the Dell 24" and a Apple 30", I personally think the apple beats the dell for clarity, colour and viewing angle hands down no contest, but the dells were really good value for money. Aslo the dells have the advantage of HD component in, so you can plug a HDCam player straight in and view glorious uncompressed 1080i Hd, which is amazing.

Im sure the 30" dells will be great value for money but I would rather save and spend the extra on an apple if i was buying myself.

just my 2 pence.

Carl

Comparing a 24" to a 30"??? Uhh.. is that a fair comparison?:shrug:

-M

imashination
12-05-2005, 03:40 PM
Comparing a 24" to a 30"??? Uhh.. is that a fair comparison?:shrug:

-M

Well, there's nothing unfair about it. Being a larger screen doesnt mean it will be brighter or have better contrast. It all depends where youre priorities are. Viewing angle for me, so long as it works while sitting in front of it, is a non-issue. People can view the dell from any angle with no problem and the worst that happens is it tints itself yellow. If youre doing colour critical pre-press, then youre frankly not going to be using any lcd at all, so it becomes moot.

The colour and accuracy on the dell 24 far exceeds any screen ive ever owned or used, this includes sgi trinitron crts and lacie blue 21's (although frankly I think they weren't set up.)

I havent seen the apple 30 first hand so I'll take his word for it as he's seen them side by side.

Lordiego01
12-05-2005, 03:44 PM
Let not the thread degenerate into DELL vs APPLE..

the real question is, which one of these monitors will work best with PS3??

:bounce:

Shaderhacker
12-05-2005, 04:12 PM
Well, there's nothing unfair about it. Being a larger screen doesnt mean it will be brighter or have better contrast.

I disagree. Take for example the 20" dell vs. 24" dell. The contrast is a lot larger with the 24" and the resolution is higher, and the speed is faster.

-M

Hazdaz
12-05-2005, 04:12 PM
Let not the thread degenerate into DELL vs APPLE..

the real question is, which one of these monitors will work best with PS3??

:bounce:

Don't you mean XB360?

XB360 vs. PS3 time! WAR.

L.Rawlins
12-05-2005, 04:16 PM
Don't you mean XB360?

XB360 vs. PS3 time! WAR.

The X360 is a solid white chunk of gaming funk. :)

UrbanFuturistic
12-05-2005, 05:05 PM
The X360 is a solid white chunk of gaming funk. :)Nice mental image there :argh: *grabs mental floss*

Anyway didn't someone at some point demonstrate that the Dell 24" uses the exact same panel as the Apple one? Made by Panasonic or something.

regards, Paul

beaker
12-05-2005, 05:29 PM
If youre doing colour critical pre-press, then youre frankly not going to be using any lcd at all, so it becomes moot.Actually, that is becoming more and more of a problem these days. Sony stopped 95% of their CRT manufacturing unless it's a medical monitor or a tv. Lacie stopped selling their's too (I think they used the sony tube).

So LCD's is pretty much the only option these days unless you purchase used ones.

L.Rawlins
12-05-2005, 05:30 PM
Nice mental image there :argh: *grabs mental floss*

Que?... :curious:

beaker
12-05-2005, 05:35 PM
would be nice if it had an HDMI inputDVI to HDMI convertors are $10. HDMI is just DVI+digital coaxial for audio in one cable. There is no audio outputs in the Dell monitor, so there is no point in putting HDMI on it (except for it being a smaller plug, so in the future, form factor might be a reason to have hdmi instead of dvi).

BillSpradlin
12-05-2005, 05:41 PM
Just as an FYI for 23" LCD's, HP makes the L2335 which has a far superior panel to the Dell and can be picked up for less than any of the ones you listed Beaker (minus the Dell) for around $1100. I just picked one up for my second monitor and it's by far the best LCD I've used, and I've spent a large amount of time on the Apple LCD's. You can read a review of it below:

http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2467

halo
12-05-2005, 06:42 PM
DVI to HDMI convertors are $10. HDMI is just DVI+digital coaxial for audio in one cable. There is no audio outputs in the Dell monitor, so there is no point in putting HDMI on it (except for it being a smaller plug, so in the future, form factor might be a reason to have hdmi instead of dvi).

except that you could use the HDMI thru an amp, and a lot of the next gen HD formats will use HDMI for content protection meaning that certain broadcasts or formats wont play back on non HDMI gear...its a shame because there is a lack of stuff capable of playing 1080 i or p natively in the AV world (obviously the i needs to go thru a decent de-interlacer, not the junk that gets stuck on most screens)

BillB
12-05-2005, 07:51 PM
Im sure the 30" dells will be great value for money but I would rather save and spend the extra on an apple if i was buying myself. You're comparing it with something that doesn't exist yet! Given how much newer than the Apple 30" the Dell will be, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think it might be a superior panel. At least wait and see before writing it off.

Hazdaz
12-05-2005, 08:03 PM
You're comparing it with something that doesn't exist yet! Given how much newer than the Apple 30" the Dell will be, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think it might be a superior panel. At least wait and see before writing it off.

Well I really think it is probably the same panel (with Apple have a version of it's controller, and DELL having a version of it's controller, but the LCD panel itself being essentially the same thing)... but either way I do agree with you. Atleast wait until it hits the market before ya bash it. We still don't know all the specifics or even the price.

mummey
12-05-2005, 08:20 PM
The X360 is a solid white chunk of gaming funk. :)

http://www.princesf.com/photos/george-clinton.jpg

Did someone say 'Funk'?

gunslingerblack
12-05-2005, 09:06 PM
the dell monitor previously reviewed here was a 24" i believe and that was only about a grand so this one can't be much more expensive, eithe way if i had to choose between the 24 and the 30 at the moment i would go with the 24.

Inspiredmonkey
12-05-2005, 09:09 PM
ok if it dosnt seem fair to compare the 24 inch dell to an apple (i didnt want to start a dell vs apple thing) , then I will compare it to my sony laptop screen which is 16" or a wacom 21" contiq, I personlly think the sony screen still has better colour and is clearer, and the wacom has an amazing viewing angle and is probably a more solid looking image. the Dell monitor was fantastic value for money and would recomend it but I do prefere some of the other screens I have used.

Again just my 2 pence worth.

Carl

Beamtracer
12-05-2005, 10:28 PM
Sony stopped 95% of their CRT manufacturing unless it's a medical monitor or a tv. Lacie stopped selling their's too (I think they used the sony tube).

So LCD's is pretty much the only option these days unless you purchase used ones.
I still use twin CRTs to work with. I still think they're a bit better. Faster response times etc.

It's interesting that Sony is phasing down CRT production.

CRTs used to be the crown jewels of Sony. They had the unique Trinitron which set them apart from the rest during the 70s, 80s and 90s. Then the patent ran out, and other manufacturers like Mitsubishi started mass producing Trinitron style CRT monitors.

Now Sony is having difficulty in the Plasma/LCD market, as it's hard to compete with the Koreans who can manufacture more cost effectively. Samsung is particularly strong in this area.

You'll probably find that both Dell and Apple are both likely to source their flat panel screens from Korea. They don't manufacture their own.

halo
12-05-2005, 10:34 PM
I think most of the major manufacturers have ceased production...i think there's a couple of minor exceptions but unfortunately i dont remember one that made a decent monitor. CRT still has a vastly superior colour range to that of commercial LCDs + better response + for the most part more stability across the screen. LCD's have better sharpness (in digital native mode) and run cooler and with a lot less electrictrickery.

If you've got a penchant for a good CRT monitor, you better had start hunting, they are getting rare. I know some people have started storing new Artisans for when their one dies.

Hazdaz
12-05-2005, 10:49 PM
I agree - I have always been against all these people jumping on the LCD bandwagon. And while I still have no plans on replacing my CRTs, they have improved dramatically over the last few years and these much larger LCDs are really the future. A CRT that size would just be impractical (sure, there are CRT TVs that size and larger, but try putting one of those on your desk). ANything above ~21" for a CRT is just impractical, so IF and WHEN my CRTs crap out on me, a large LCD would really be the only way to go... I just have no plans on replacing them prematurely.

Also while LCDs still are not as good as CRTs in terms of color reproduction, they are getting better, and I think Lacei or one of them companies even has LCDs that are jsut as accurate as CRTs (I think one of their big selling points).

UrbanFuturistic
12-05-2005, 10:54 PM
http://www.princesf.com/photos/george-clinton.jpg

Did someone say 'Funk'?Not the kinda 'funk' I was thinking of :p

Anyway's, best way to get a CRT these days is refurb jobs, got a Sony E530 for £150 and it rocks, I'm just hoping somone crack the FED (http://www.sharpsma.com/lcd/lcdguide/Technologies/FED_displays.php) problem before they totally die out.

regards, Paul

imashination
12-05-2005, 11:51 PM
I disagree. Take for example the 20" dell vs. 24" dell. The contrast is a lot larger with the 24" and the resolution is higher, and the speed is faster.

-M

But that isn't because one is 20" and the other is 24" Theres no reason a 17" cant be brighter, have more contrast, better angle and more accuracy. The size has no impact on the other specs. Thats like saying a car cant ever be as good as a van with a trailer because it has less wheels ;-)

rocarpen
12-06-2005, 12:48 AM
But that isn't because one is 20" and the other is 24" Theres no reason a 17" cant be brighter, have more contrast, better angle and more accuracy. The size has no impact on the other specs. Thats like saying a car cant ever be as good as a van with a trailer because it has less wheels ;-)

Amen. It's all about the panels. The panel is the foundation of the LCD, and a single panel line be shared among multiple companies and products. An LG 17" panel, for example, might end up used by Dell, Apple, Samsung, all simultaneously. The LCD manufacturers then add their little tweaks and details (industrial design, USB hub, media reader, etc), and you've got your LCD.

Shaderhacker
12-06-2005, 01:21 AM
But that isn't because one is 20" and the other is 24" Theres no reason a 17" cant be brighter, have more contrast, better angle and more accuracy. The size has no impact on the other specs. Thats like saying a car cant ever be as good as a van with a trailer because it has less wheels ;-)

Of course. But if I were engineering a monitor, the bigger one would be the better one!;) That's just logical. And that's what has happened in this case as well..

-M

BillB
12-06-2005, 06:30 AM
Well I really think it is probably the same panel Not if you look at the specs :
Dell - 14ms response time, 400cd/m2 brightness, 700:1 contrast ratio
Apple - 16ms response time, 270cd/m2 brightness, 400:1 contrast ratio

Sounds like a new panel to me, and a better one (on those specs). No great surprise, the Apple LCD is 18 months old, an eternity in computer land.

parallax
12-06-2005, 07:54 AM
Amen. It's all about the panels. The panel is the foundation of the LCD, and a single panel line be shared among multiple companies and products. An LG 17" panel, for example, might end up used by Dell, Apple, Samsung, all simultaneously. The LCD manufacturers then add their little tweaks and details (industrial design, USB hub, media reader, etc), and you've got your LCD.

Except for Samsung of course, in this example.

Hazdaz
12-06-2005, 01:12 PM
Not if you look at the specs :
Dell - 14ms response time, 400cd/m2 brightness, 700:1 contrast ratio
Apple - 16ms response time, 270cd/m2 brightness, 400:1 contrast ratio

Sounds like a new panel to me, and a better one (on those specs). No great surprise, the Apple LCD is 18 months old, an eternity in computer land.

Except that the brightness and the contract ratio I would guess have more to do with the backlighting of the monitor. And The backlighting is seperate from the LCD panel itself. The response time could also very likely be a function of the support chips/controller for the monitor, and not the LCD panel itself. Now they might very well be 2 different panels, but it is also very likely that they are the same panels, but with different components to create the final monitor.

When most people say LCD monitor, they think it is just one component, and that is definitly not the case. All the sub-components are tightly integrated into the monitor, but while the LCD panel is the most important peice and the most expensive, all the sub-components do play a part in creating the final image.

BillB
12-06-2005, 05:49 PM
Good points Hazdaz, but pretty sure refresh is panel dependant, and I also neglected to mention the different viewing angles, the Dell being 178 to Apple's 170, off the top of my head. As I say, it's 18 months since the apple was released, be amazed if Dell wasn't using a new panel.

ages
12-08-2005, 10:32 PM
FYI -

DELL "24 while having a thumbdrive in the USB ports, makes the new G5's pause and not load on restarts.

opus13
01-05-2006, 09:12 PM
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/monitors/topics/en/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&l=en&s=gen&redirect=1


its out :)

for $2200 :(

paul.yan
01-05-2006, 10:56 PM
I was hoping Dell would really challenge the Cinema on the price with something under $2G. Someone tell me when a dell deal breaks out!

noisewar
01-05-2006, 11:37 PM
If only they could make their computers as good as their LCD's these days... ;)




Oh! Did it just get a little warm in here? :twisted:


Actually Dell doesn't make their own monitors, the LCD panels are from Samsung. That's why they're so good =)

opus13
01-05-2006, 11:55 PM
I was hoping Dell would really challenge the Cinema on the price with something under $2G. Someone tell me when a dell deal breaks out!

i think they are hegding on their frequent 10% off home & small business coupons. on the surface they are close in price, but the coupns will drop it below the $2k mark for many. wait until the spring and im sure stackable 10%+15% will happen easily.

L.Rawlins
01-08-2006, 07:53 PM
The 3007WFP (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/monitors/topics/en/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&l=en&s=gen) has now been unleashed. ($2,199 (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs))

[EDIT= Apologies, I didn't see this had already been bumped. :blush: ]

heavyness
01-08-2006, 09:40 PM
Actually Dell doesn't make their own monitors, the LCD panels are from Samsung. That's why they're so good =)

i believe LG makes Dell's LCDs [same company that makes Apple's Cinema Displays] unless it had changed recently

http://www.anandtech.com/displays/showdoc.aspx?i=2400

Julius
01-08-2006, 09:51 PM
In Australia i can get duel 24" dell's for 100 dollars more then one 30". I'd rather go that path!

danniesanchez
01-09-2006, 01:22 AM
Having used dual monitors for years i'm glad to not have to do it again. The main reason is with 2 monitors you can't exactly see them both at the same time well. You would be staring at the gap in the middle. My neck has bothered because of it.

Plus cheap plastic vs nice chrome finish is much easier on the eyes. Aside from that it looks to be (the dell) a better monitor. It also incorporates HDCP for Vista.

Having bought a ACD 30" (on a PC with a quadro 3000) i may get a Mac so i can watch HD content

Lordiego01
01-09-2006, 01:21 PM
as soon as I wipe the drool off my keyboard, Im gonna order on of these things. (as long as it'll take PS3 input!)

opus13
01-09-2006, 08:40 PM
as soon as I wipe the drool off my keyboard, Im gonna order on of these things. (as long as it'll take PS3 input!)

if the ps3 outputs to DVI then you are in business... otherwise, get the 24" for all the input options.

danniesanchez
01-09-2006, 09:56 PM
i'm pretty sure in the tech demo that ps3 takes dual link dvi ports. 2 in fact if i remember their fancy demo with all the videos playing at the same time.

apoc519
01-09-2006, 10:07 PM
I dont think its been mentioned but this thing is considerably cheaper on the Canadian Dell site. Only $1999 CDN or $1700 USD

http://accessories.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?sku=222-0863&c=ca&l=en&cs=CADHS1&category_id=6198&first=true&page=productlisting.aspx

habañero
01-10-2006, 04:10 PM
I didn't read the whole thread but there are two general points I make to people that want to buy products from Dell. The first is that you can get a way different price by calling their office and haggle with them, at least on some items. My friend got like 300$ off a Dell ultralight laptop just a month ago, in Norway buying for personal use, first time buyer.

The second is that Dell is a special company when it comes to marketing, oem solutions and customer service. They are currently in a class action lawsuit for defrauding customers and it is just not 1 office or product or something like that. Any offer for free credit or downpayment, the suit is about overcharging people tons for that type of thing and for sending you wrong (more expensive) parts or bills, and obstructing customers through a customer service system that borders on harassment. There's also a saying about their prices, "it always adds up".

HardOCP did a consumer test (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=OTI0) about one of their gaming PCs with a few interesting conclusions. (Probably) All of them ships with software from Dell that makes the computer about half as fast, it took about 50 minutes on tech support to get the computer to a stage where it would install populat titles like Sims2 or Battlefield2. Putting a game Cd in it, it would not lauch the installer or I think even the windows select action thingy. So a kid (and probably the parent) the day after christmas, they would both just have a horrible time.

All their equipment is based on open standard technology, but they limit by means of custom "obstruction" design, misleading customers, deliberate software/hardware error among other tactics the customers real or percieved options. Dell upgrades is compared to off the shelf parts with better quality more expensive on a scale of easily 2-4 times. They will often give you trouble running linux(by means of strange hardware error/bios options), which seriously affects their value down the line. In 4 or 6 years when they are antiquities with winXP dell edition they will still get fresh drivers and free upgrades with an Ubuntu Linux that will be a lot of a better alternative than a unsupported XP/dell package. There obviously will be better alternatives then, but I mean I have pentium II Ibms here that runs ubuntu beautifully and to a kid or a grandmother it can be a big difference from not having a computer ... For web surfing and wordpad, a new system doesn't stand any comparison to a typical 100-150$ deal on a P II-III with monitor and all.

They have their own drivers, which limits you a lot in terms of troubleshooting and means you will often use 1/2 year or more old drivers to the equipment. Can mean big difference on new and high end equipment. They will only support their own drivers as far as I understand.

There surely are better stories as well and their customer support can be anything from excellent on borders of the ridiculous with a guy coming to your house to open and close 4 screws, and leaving after 5 minutes, to a more normal procedure of broken promises, half hour phone queue ending in a busy signal, indian support dragging you through half hour procedures that you both know will not work up to what is considered Fraud. Workstation department have a better rep then others, and you can catch some good deals. There are some interesting stories at resellerratings.com, and in the hardware forum.

Still, it is a question if it is a good idea in the first place to support a company with that kind of record. I consider it a bet that you won't need them to do their part right if things go south.

Lordiego01
01-10-2006, 06:53 PM
Interesting comments on Dell. I'd like to actually see a source for this lawsuit you talk about. Ive never heard anything of such.

Not to sound like a Dell fan-boy, but in my personal experience they are a great company. As far as them using proprietary drivers, that is plain and simple BS. I go to my Dell support site to download drivers, and there I find the links to the offical websites of the manufacturers. This is for both my desktop and laptops.

I agree the upgrades are very expensive, but then again, you can just buy it at the store. I've put a LOT of aftermarket parts on my Dell, and have yet to have a problem. You say "they ship the computer with software that makes it half as fast"; athough it is true that they load up of free trials or other annoying software, your statement is plainly not true. Every single Dell I ever got (two for me, one for my parents) has worked beautifully out of the box. No need to do a fresh install or any other funky process.

And their tech support is simply outstanding. Sometimes you do need to decipher their heavy accents, but every time something has gone wrong with any of my Dells, its only 20-30 minutes of wait until you reach a representative. If you get the care package, and something goes wrong, they will replace it with no questions asked. (I wonder what they thought when I sent my laptop in, reeking of an Apple Martini, with the keyboard and motherboard/processor fried and stuck together thanks to a heavy mix of Vodka and Apple Puckers). Oh, and did I mention that my warranty of three years had 2 weeks left when this happened. This accident was truly random, and not pre-planned in a any way. I was without my laptop for three weeks, but they took care of everything, even shipping. (try that with ANY other company)

Bottom line is that Dell is not a bad company, yes, you can get it cheaper, yes, they engage in predatory lending, but I have never, ever met a person (in real life) who has ever had anything bad to say about their choice to go with Dell. (And I know a LOT of people who have Dells)

habañero
01-10-2006, 09:31 PM
Article (http://news.com.com/Dell+sued+over+bait-and-switch+charges/2100-1047_3-5587443.html?part=rss&tag=5587315&subj=news)
Case (http://www.lerachlaw.com/lcsr-cgi-bin/mil?templ=featured/dell.html)



"The lawsuit says that Dell Inc. controls all of its manufacturing, marketing, advertising and sales orders and that it deliberately advertises computers and other electronic products at attractive low prices and then systematically substitutes higher-priced products or lower quality equipment for those it advertised to customers, or increases the purchase price without notice to buyers, whom it admits often are unsophisticated. Dell also unilaterally cancels orders when it decides not to honor advertised deals.

Unlike most products, Dell equipment and services are sold exclusively by telephone and through Dell’s Internet Web site, and Dell customers view only pictures of the products prior to sale – never the product itself. In 2004 Dell spent $300 million advertising its products on TV, in newspapers and catalogues and on the Internet. That same year Dell shipped 5.4 million personal computers in the United States and generated $6 billion in revenue from U.S. consumers.

The complaint alleges that Dell preys on unsuspecting consumers with its financing practices, as well, promoting low rates and “easy” financing which, without notice to the customer, are changed to include much higher interest rates and hidden charges."



Most of what I mentioned is sourced either in the review by hardocp or at reseller ratings. Long, but an intesting read. I aint a real nerd of long but I buy machines to the family and so I have been reading a little about these things like the last year. About every hardware forum you get the prevalent Dell stories and you have almost univocal praise of Newegg. I don't think it is accidental or a hate campaign, I think it reflects that the one company is a traditional warehouse business model that focus on good quality and that the other is speculating in the opposite and often fooling or trying to fool its customers, which pisses them off.

At the same time some customers seem to get good treatment, often seeing a representative in their home, or getting stuff shipped or changed maybe without good reason. I don't mean you in particular, I mean I have read mostly either very good or very horrible stuff. Seeing people in the house impresses people, but it is my impression that the generosity in some places or department are made well up for in other places or departments. They do not seem a safe bet, and I don't see them giving some people good service or deals as improving on their problem with defrauding other customers or fooling them with their generally decieving marketing which one must admire for its efficiency. People are often under the impression that their products are very cheap, while it often aint the case at all. Then some of them really are, like their quadro laptops. Quality on intel boards too is a little of both but the good ones are duracell rabbits and so quality can be good for the money as well.

Dell
http://www.dell.com
Customer Satisfaction
Six-Month Rating: 3.95
Six-Month Reviews: 88
Lifetime Reviews: 1055

Lifetime Rating: 4.41 Average Store: 6.95
High Average: 8.98
Low Average: 3.23
6.09 Pricing of Products and Services
3.05 Likelihood of Future Purchases
4.81 Shipping and Packaging
1.78 Customer Service
3.56 Return or Replacement

link (http://www.resellerratings.com/seller1867.html)


Recommend reading a few of the reviews there as well, here's one of the top of the list:

"Very Satisfied
Reviewer: gts45 (7)


12/20/05 7:41 PM
placed an order for a pc from dell on 11/24/2005. at the time that i placed the order, the estimated ship date for the pc was 12/15/2005. i was suprised to find that the pc had shipped on 12/4/2005, and i recieved the pc a few days later. excellent shopping experience with dell.

*update
i recently placed a second order with dell. i ordered a monitor on 12/14/2005. on dell's website, it indicated the monitor typically ships in 5-7 business days. my order shipped on 12/15/2005, the day after it processed and is scheuled to arrive this week. after this second flawless experience with dell i would definetly recommend them to anyone!

although, after reading other reviews of dell, i fully agree that their tech support and customer service is a joke. if you order from dell, youd better hope you never run into any problems with the product or order, because calling dell for help will result in extreme frustration."

And this one:

"Purchased a Dell Inspion 1200 laptop on 11/25 as a Christmas present. It arrived 12/1/05. The laptop arrived with a 2 inch blue line in the screen. Called Dell. Transferred repeatedly but finally after 98 minutes they had setup to ship a replacement laptop. I was emailed confirmation with a "Dispatch Reference #065644xxx. After 14 days, I went to check to see where the replacement was... When searching the online system "no results returned". I called to find out the status to find out they cancelled the order for the replacement system without notifying me and without notating the case notes as to why. I've made 3 calls so far and have spend over 5 hours on the phone trying to get a replacement system. Only to be transferred over and over, each time having to give them name, case #, phone # and email address and then explain the problem. The previous call ended when I finally hung up after the rep went "to review the case notes" and I sat with a dead phone for well over 1/2 an hour and no way to get back to a person. I'm still on hold (3 1/2 hours today so far) trying desperately to get a replacement system sent out and have it here before Christmas. I hold little hope. During the 50 minutes I was on "ignore" I filed a BBB complaint, and a Paypal complaint since I used them for payment. Paypal immediately "closed (it) because it does not meet PayPal's complaint policy guidelines." Thanks Dell and Thanks Paypal for making this just the best Christmas EVER!"

Lordiego01
01-11-2006, 01:57 PM
This is certainly some interesting information, but it does not change my opinion based on my experiences with them. Im debating ordering a new top of the line desktop with the new 30 inch monitor from them, which budgets at about $4,500. I might get the desktop from somewhere else (cheaper), but I will definitely order the monitor.

Either way, I guess that if you are dumb enough to wait 5 hours on the phone for them, and you are dumb enough to believe that their payment plan is a good deal, then I don't feel sorry that your dumb-ass got ripped off.

If im on the phone for longer than 25 minutes, or I keep on getting transfered, I get heated and demand a supervisor. They are really good after that.

Actually, now that you mention it, I highly doubt the veracity of some of the worst claims on there. Im not too familiar with resellersrating.com, and I wouldn't doubt that Dell's competitor could have people to make these sort of claims. Much the same way that I wouldn't doubt Dell paying people to praise them on the net.

habañero
01-11-2006, 05:07 PM
"Either way, I guess that if you are dumb enough to wait 5 hours on the phone for them, and you are dumb enough to believe that their payment plan is a good deal, then I don't feel sorry that your dumb-ass got ripped off."

I think in this case the problem is not that people are naive, it is Dell's policies that are just bad. Grandmothers, kids, parents and poor people may not be flush with other options, and it is just in such contradiction with their image so people perhaps need a little while to turn on their cynic. In my world the 1/2 hour to get to tech support of a company would not happen, I have on average 1 minute with Norwegian etailers, and they often have completely free tech support. Beats Dell on price as well, even on the cheapest boxes where you'd think dell would have big advantage due to their deals with intel and MS. The single item Dell has that I could find is their high end laptops, the quadro ones in particular. Aiming for an Apple there though.

"Actually, now that you mention it, I highly doubt the veracity of some of the worst claims on there. Im not too familiar with resellersrating.com, and I wouldn't doubt that Dell's competitor could have people to make these sort of claims. Much the same way that I wouldn't doubt Dell paying people to praise them on the net."

Fairly critical reader of the internets. I am skeptical though that there would be an organized effort by other big competitors against Dell. They would risk to get sued for billions, at the same time negating the gain of the campaign. People doing the work could blackmail the company, their work would be public record. Some eager salesmen writing dishonest reviews on there is obvious but I doubt they are able to swamp out the massive internet trend of normal people writing honest reviews.

Notice Newegg answer their complaints (http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2121-p1-s2-d1.html) (sort ->low). One can ask if it is ethics or cynicism at display, but both for people, society and the company I'd say it seems to work well.

I'd buy from Dell as well, but I am researched and cynical and also they don't get far with Norwegian/EU consumer laws. Better ****ing work for the three or five years or I am getting that replacement.

Lordiego01
01-11-2006, 05:34 PM
Fairly critical reader of the internets. I am skeptical though that there would be an organized effort by other big competitors against Dell. They would risk to get sued for billions, at the same time negating the gain of the campaign. People doing the work could blackmail the company, their work would be public record. Some eager salesmen writing dishonest reviews on there is obvious but I doubt they are able to swamp out the massive internet trend of normal people writing honest reviews.



humm... this is done by just about ALL of the big companies, as well as the military,
and the government (in the US). This is ridicously obvious in particular with the 4th Branch of the US.Govrnmt. (the mass media). And no, it is not illegal.

habañero
01-11-2006, 05:50 PM
Well it is really off topic and not related to any of the important points of the discussion so I won't go into that much but I believe writing lies and fake stories about a company is libel, and people have been successfully tried for that (internet libel) in the states. A company organizing it in a system, I think that would be covered by both libel and perhaps fraud laws. What's your source for all major companies doing this?

Writing good reviews is of course not illegal. I was talking about a theory that says that a lot of the stories at sites like reselleratings.com are pure fiction, written by competition in a conspiracy. That some of them can be fake I don't doubt but I don't think the results of the company at sites like resellerratings is the result of a well organized campaign or something like that. You can subtract a full 10% of the worst and Dells results would still be ugly, while for Newegg you could take their top 10% and it wouldn't change the picture much.

I don't see what government agencies have to do with this, I think the explanation of the phenomenon is simple and it is that Dell is a special company about these things.

opus13
01-11-2006, 08:32 PM
humm... this is done by just about ALL of the big companies, as well as the military,


lordiego01, you seem to be clinging to the idea that Dell has your best interests at heart when they have had piss-poor customer relations ratings for the last 5 years. i find it pretty interesting that you are willing to dismiss any ill will against them as corporate propaganda. i have my own horror stories as well (one being a 3 month ordeal involving being charged for an extra monitor i never ordered to begin with and didnt want).

then again, i cant say what your level of experience or expectations are, but i have my suspicions (hint: "top of the line" computers cost significantly more than $2300). there are multitudes of aggravated users out there on forums (such as this, simply search for "Dell" and you will see plenty of embittered customers).

suffice it to say that people are not hapy with Dell. they offer products and services, but whether you get what yu actually wanted is sorely up for debate.

Lordiego01
01-11-2006, 08:57 PM
no no no brother, you seem to be misquoting me, I believe that all gigantic corporations are inherently evil (wink wink)

Im saying as far as MY experience with Dell, I cannot complain in the least minimum. Actually, as far as MY experience is concerned, I can say that Dell does have my best interest at heart. They are always promt to resolve any kind of problems. Last time I sent them my fried laptop, not only did they not ask any questions, but they followed up with several phone calls and emails to make sure I was happy with the service and that the problem with my laptop had been fixed.

"then again, i cant say what your level of experience or expectations are, but i have my suspicions (hint: "top of the line" computers cost significantly more than $2300)"

nice comment smart-ass (;)), but re-read my post, and I said top of the line desktop computer, which is not a workstation. I don't know your level of experience, but on my planet (and field of work), there is a big difference between a desktop and a workstation. In fact, if you can't get a top of the line desktop computer for $2,500 (read, no monitor or speakers) then I got a bridge that leads to some beautifull land in florida to sell you.

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