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Lt HuNTeR
12-03-2005, 01:23 AM
Hi,

I am a member of several mods for the game Operation Flashpoint (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/). I work in a rather small community, and thought it would be interesting to venture out a little further to see what other people with varying experiences in the field of 3D think about my work.

I have been modelling for about a year and a half now. First with the OxygenLight (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/breathe/) modelling program (very basic) specifically designed for that game/simulator, and since a month or two with 3DSMAX.

I would like to know what you all think of some of the latest (my actual latest were alot of low poly island-objects not really worth mentioning) models :)

Russian PKM LMG (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/screenshots/RHS_Promo_PKM5.jpg)
French FAMAS (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/screenshots/LTH_FAMAS1.jpg)
A wireframe of the 2nd model (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/screenshots/LTH_FAMAS_Wireframe.jpg)

The PKM model is around 3500 vertices, the FAMAS is around 1250. Please tell me what you think.

Also I have a side question: I hear all this ''low poly'' and ''high poly'', but I have never understood where ''low'' ends and ''high'' starts. Is it dependant on it's intendedapplication? Can someone please explain that to me?

Oh and also I made this (my first weapon model in MAX):
Russian Mosing Nagant M1895 (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/highpoly/Nagant1895_Render1.jpg) Around 2000 vertices:)

Thanks,
Lt HuNTeR

Augh
12-03-2005, 01:17 PM
Models look pretty tight to me, I'm guessing OFP is a first person shooter with current/higher end PC specs? Going by the models at least. I like the FAMAS, but then I'm always a sucker for bullpups hehe. For reference, at least as far as I know the most useful factor to list is usually the triangle rather than polygon or vertice count. Vert count IS good to know as it has a really big effect on most performance based issues, but is more useful when comparable to a listed triangle count, untriangulated polycount is kinda not so relevant as either of those imo. Yeah, the whole high/low poly thing gets relatively subjective, but for the meantime at least going by these pics I'd call these mid/high. There's a lot of modeled small details and a lot of rotational steps on barrels and other pieces, modeled bullet feeds and such. This seems to be kinda a convention among FPS weapons though these days.

Overall looking good imo, throw up some triangle counts and people can probably tell you more.

Cheers :thumbsup:

dees
12-03-2005, 02:54 PM
at the begining of the forum,- is a stick note about games modelling, technique for trades.

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=112189

they have this render-calls" - per 1 GigHz procc able to make about 25K render calls etc etc and also depends on the 3d engine itself - (better read it indepth :p)

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Imho, you should define the game first. I play OFP previously and it's about "medium-sized" count (it's my own terminology - dun blame me, lol), which similar (but not totally the same) as Hitman2, Max Payne, HL2.

Hitman2 character itself is 2164 tris, Alyx from HL2 is about 5500 (more-less), the male character from HL2 is about 3000. Now imagine if you have 20 enemies loading up at once, with each taking 1500 tris. That's 30000 tris plus your own character about 3000 or so......... and since my math sucks.......... let's consider it "fps mayhem" :banghead:

That'll leaves........ 300-600 tris PER weapon model. 1000 if it's really complicated in design. :argh:

So, my best guess is we turn to "tris-hugging-modellers" to do their daily tris-count-abuse and remove any unnecessary tris as best as possible without changing the shape.

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If I'm wrong about that, :hmm: well - :wip:

dees

"forgive me Father, for I have led Thy sheeps into steakhouse"

dees
12-03-2005, 03:09 PM
forgot one thing, Nice FAMAS !... it's a damn beautiful weapon by design.

I love the details. But if you want to cut more tris-count, make the magazine into a box with lining texture, anything rounded (i.e. barrels) into a very very less rounded - 6 sides maybe. Overall........... I love that FAMAS :bounce:

dees :banghead:

Lt HuNTeR
12-03-2005, 04:52 PM
Thanks for the replies. I'm sorry about not telling you more about the game (die-hard fans would consider it a simulator since it is also being used in an edited form by the US Army, USMC, Australian Armed Forces and more, but for now we'll just stick with ''game''). OFP uses a Level Of Detail system to compensate for the large scale of the islands 25X25km or 100X100km for the newly planned expansion. Also it has the option of setting the view distance from anywhere of 50 meters to 5000 meters. Not even on the newest gaming rigs will you be able to set everything on full detail.

The game was released in 2001, and the engine does not support DirectX 9, but is mostly DirectX8 based. No normal mapping support therefore. If you want shadows then you have to add them to your textures themself. The LOD system does make it fairly easy to make the initial model a fully featured model with most of the more visible details. For instance the PKM model is 3500 vertices at present. By adding several lods which cut the verticecount down by 50% for each lod, I'd ideally end up with an 8 vertice model (for distances over ~750 meters, where the difference between a fully featured model and a couple of textured planes is barely visible.

An example of lods (done by me) (http://ofp.gamezone.cz/_hosted/digitalwarfarestudios/screenshots/HDV_Gatling_Lods.jpg)

OFP combines everything from infantry-based combat to tanks, helicopters and aircraft. Also it is not as linear as most modern combat games that call themselves ''realistic'' such as BF2. I personally hate how gamers look for graphics first and gameplay second.

The developers of OFP are planning a total revision of OFP in Armed Assault (http://www.bistudio.com/presspages/ArmA_Progress_Update.html). Also planned is a totally new simulator/game based on a new engine they are developing, which offers even more freedom to fight a total war including RPG elements, interacting with NPC's etc.

The polycounts of the original game aren't really representative of the present accomplishments of the mod making community that OFP has. A tank from the original game has about 2000 vertices, while the best tanks done by the community generally have around 8000 vertices. I have read somewhere on a 3D forum that the verticemax for a tank in BF2 is 4000, don't know if it is entirely correct, but it does demonstrate the power of the Poseidon (OFP) engine in terms of scalability :)

If you have any more questions, I'll be happy to supply you with answers as best I can.

I myself like to stick with these vertice amounts as max amounts for anything I model (for OFP at least):

Soldier: 3500
Weapon: 2000 (regular assault rifle, with exception for sniper rifles and machine guns)
Sidearm: 1000
Armored Personel Carrier: 3000
Tank: 8000
Helicopter: 6000
Aircraft: anything up to 10.000

With proper lods the engine will have no problem rendering that with large scale (platoon/batallion sized) engagements.

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