PDA

View Full Version : Skip cycle in LW


Irie
11-22-2002, 03:00 PM
Hey all,

I was wondering if any of you had a good skip cycle or know where I might find one to use as reference for my rig. I am having problems (using the EvilPlan rig) with the hind leg rolling from the ankle onto the toe... it gives me a very odd bouncy-like motion... whatever that means.

If you are so inclined, i have attached a zipped file of my scene (which is basically about 10 keyframes :( ), perhaps you would want to download it and give it a look? any other critiques and flames are most welcome.

thanks
Matt

Kaiser_Sose
11-22-2002, 03:08 PM
try www.lostpencil.com

Irie
11-22-2002, 03:20 PM
KS,

Thanks for the link, however, i have purchased the Just Animate CD from lostpencil... the problem is, they use a differnt rig and im way too lazy to go back and change my whole set up.

thanks anyways :)

any more takers?
matt

proton
11-22-2002, 03:26 PM
not sure what your asking....I have the scene but there isn't mucjh goin gon in it....If I were you I would set up a quick skip cycle and then post the scene.....

Irie
11-22-2002, 03:34 PM
Yeh, Proton... thats my problem...

I get stuck on one bit of animation and cant go further. There is barely anything going on. My problem is that the leg he starts to jump from doesnt roll properly from the rotated ankle position to a rotated heel position. I have tried to roll it using the tiptoe null, but that does the same thing.

this probably doenst make any sense either. so i will go ahead and start putting some more work into it and post it again. if you see what i mean and have the answer tho, by all means... lemme know :)

thx
Matt

P.S. i appreciate your professionalism Proton, even though you may resent my troublemaking the other day.

(edit)
P.S.S... i can see how this would make NO sense. sorry

Irie
11-22-2002, 07:26 PM
But not much...

See if you can see the problem... it occurs between frames 5 and 10 on the right foot. there is what seems to be a stall caused by the un-rotation of the ballnull and the rotation of the tiptoe null...

instead of attaching the files, i decided to put it into my web directory here at school.

here is the scene: http://www.drama.uga.edu/~rangerrick/For%20ToddG/Gany_Skip_1114.lws

here is the object file: http://www.drama.uga.edu/~rangerrick/For%20ToddG/GANY_FINAL_MESH_Master.lwo

remember that you would need to download the links to disk... not that you wouldnt know that... just a friendly reminder. :wavey:

by the way, the reason i included the object file is because the proportions of my model affect the cycle considerably.

thanks again
matt

KOryH
11-22-2002, 08:53 PM
I just looked at your scene.
Like proton said, not much going on, but I do have a suggestion.
Bone placement is VERY important.
As of now the pivot points of your foot are slightly above the ground plane and the mesh. Try moving the bones and nulls too be resting on the ground and flush with the bottom of the foot.
I think this would solve some of your problems.
On a side note. Work form big to small. You will NEVER get anything done if you start focusing on the tiny details before the major things are even there.

Good luck.

Irie
11-22-2002, 09:11 PM
eh?! nulls arent on zero?!

shite... i need to check that...

I have another simple walk cycle that i have based this off of and havent had any problems there. I think the main problem is because of how its modeled in all tris.. so some of the foot geometry dips below the floor slightly no matter what i do.

cripes man.. i had better check what you are saying!

thx for looking, i appreciate that.

by the way, what exactly do you mean by starting large then going small? i kinda know what you mean, but im not sure how to go about doing that? I was taught to do it all as you go and tweak the small problems later... are you suggesting doing simple heel placement and such before worrying about ankle rotation and all?

thx

SplineGod
11-22-2002, 09:52 PM
The Heel Goal should be exactly at the heel. The same with any other goals...they should be right where the bone they will control will pivot. The heel goals are not even close to where they should be. I also wouldnt use IK on the arms when doing a walk cycle or skip. IK is typically used when you have to make things stick to something else...like the feet need to stick to the ground.
Since hes just walking you dont need it on the arms. Its also going to be difficult to get your overlapping motions on the arms because of the IK. Overlapping motions start at the shoulder and work they way down to the hand with progressive delay. IK makes it hard to do that because the kinematics are inverse. :)

Irie
11-22-2002, 10:26 PM
good point. Thanks for the tips on the IK on the arms. The reason the nulls arent close to their supposed locations is because of rotations of the ankle and toes... i am having a hard time getting them to flow right... this is the first skip cycle i have done (failingly), so im not so sure if any of this shat is right.

anyways, thanks for the help larry.

SplineGod
11-23-2002, 02:27 AM
The main thing I shoot for in my rigs is to make them as poseable as possible. I want a rig that also doesnt break between poses and whose pose doesnt break when I move something else. I also first rough of the animation. I dont worry about rolling up onto the toes until later. I get the basic walk cycle going, check my weight, timging and then start to tweak the small stuff.

Irie
11-23-2002, 03:21 AM
larry,

thanks again for your advice. I know this may be asking a bit much, but you wouldnt happen to have any skip cycles you have done that you wouldnt mind me looking at, would you? I would love to see how you or anyone else does it. As for starting off large, then working out the details, i know thats how i should do it... because im wasting so much time trying to get each step exactly right as i go... but my problem with that workflow is knowing how much space to leave for those details... then again, i suppose theres always grapheditor tweaking that solves that problem...

SplineGod
11-23-2002, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by Irie
larry,

thanks again for your advice. I know this may be asking a bit much, but you wouldnt happen to have any skip cycles you have done that you wouldnt mind me looking at, would you? I would love to see how you or anyone else does it. As for starting off large, then working out the details, i know thats how i should do it... because im wasting so much time trying to get each step exactly right as i go... but my problem with that workflow is knowing how much space to leave for those details... then again, i suppose theres always grapheditor tweaking that solves that problem...
I would start of with a basic walk cycle. A skip is just a variation of the walk cycle.

Merlin
11-23-2002, 09:26 AM
Matt, hey, just get the basic motion of the skip cycle, mainly the motion of the body, legs, arms, and feet. Leave the exact, rotation of the toes, landing of feet, finger curls, muscle flexes, jiggle of fat, for later. Do 60 frames of a skip cycle, just basic, then go back and start to really nail down the feet to the ground plane, and getting the toes to bend and push off just right. And do a few skips down your hallway, notice that the foot you push off of is the foot that you land on, that's the very reason it's called a "skip", if you lead off with your right foot, you skip you're left foot, and put down your right foot again, resutling in a skip. Did that make sense?

goto my ftp site;

http://jake.drama.uga.edu/~nholman/movies

click on firstreel (I think that's what it's called, you can't miss it) this is the demo reel that I did about a year ago, on it, you can see my first attempts at a skip cycle. It is not perfect at all, but it does have the basic motion down, scroll through the movie and see if you can get the basic movement from it. If you need to, bring it into Adobe Premiere, look at the time/frame# and match it accordingly with your scene in layout (D" for display, click on general options, then select SMPTE Time Code instead of frame number, now you can match the files' times accordingly,

if you need to, I can post the old scene file (dude, you laugh at the model I'll kill you, it was the first human I ever did!!! it was destined to suck) on my jake.drama. site, just let me know,

Neal

Irie
11-23-2002, 06:17 PM
Thanks Neal. I will give that a look. I also have a skip cycle from Mikes second class that i swiped from someone else when i couldnt complete mine in time :eek:

sshhhhhhh

So i will look at that one too if i can locate it. But for now i am downloading your reel. Oh, and I never thought about the skip cycle like that... heh... i always thought it was because your feet kinda make a sound like "skkkk" when they scuff the floor. Im a dork.

Thanks Neal.

see ya in class... gimme a call if you need a ride.

later
matt

SplineGod
11-23-2002, 06:31 PM
There are several good books on animation that show skips. Cartoon Animation by Preston Blair comes to mind.

Irie
11-23-2002, 07:03 PM
larry,

yep, that preston blair cycle sits right below my layout window as i am working on it :)

SplineGod
11-24-2002, 12:42 AM
You can scan in each part of that sequence and load the images as a background sequence to set up your poses. :)

Irie
11-24-2002, 01:27 AM
hey now... thats not a bad idea..!

and i didnt think of that why? is this how you do difficult cycles? draw them out and do the cycle by poses? is this a practical way?

thx
matt

SplineGod
11-24-2002, 01:33 AM
Youre not animating by poses? Thats the easiest and best way to get the timing right. Lightwave does the inbetweening. Straight forward animation is much more difficult to do IMO. Work with poses and then tweak the timing. :)

Irie
11-24-2002, 01:45 AM
in a way.. i do... i set up the character in the start pose... move to the keyframe which i think the next action should happen, then rotate or translate how it should be, then set the keyframe...

(EDIT: in otherwords, im not keyframing every frame. my cycles' keyframes tend to look something like 0, 3, 10, 15, 20, 23, 30, etc)

i would love to see a walkcycle tutorial using poses... unless i am not understanding correctly :surprised

Irie
11-24-2002, 03:13 AM
I gotta say, Larry, i dont know why in the hell I have tried to perfect the cycle at every step. I have already gotten thru 3/4 of it by doing the basic steps first. I have a few more keyframes to make before i start rotating heels and ankles and tweaking it out, and it already looks convincing. :scream: :D

thanks alot for the tips... i will post my progress for you to check out later : :airguitar:

Irie
11-24-2002, 04:53 AM
cant i upload my scenefile? its zipped up and everything, but i keep getting a message saying i already uploaded it...???

at any rate, i have it roughed out and i was hoping someone could give it a look and see if it is decent enough to continue with.

Irie
11-24-2002, 06:07 AM
here we go

SplineGod
11-24-2002, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Irie
in a way.. i do... i set up the character in the start pose... move to the keyframe which i think the next action should happen, then rotate or translate how it should be, then set the keyframe...

(EDIT: in otherwords, im not keyframing every frame. my cycles' keyframes tend to look something like 0, 3, 10, 15, 20, 23, 30, etc)

i would love to see a walkcycle tutorial using poses... unless i am not understanding correctly :surprised
Thats really it. I set my first and last pose first since theyre the same. I do the middle ones next by copying the first or last pose there because you just have to swap the leg and arms positions since its just a mirror of the first and last poses. At first my character moves like its cross country skiing. My first and last pose are the landing poses...left leg forward, right leg back. Then the squash poses, crossing poses and then the lift off poses. So with your chart I would do 0 and 30, then 15. I would throw the others in last.

Kaiser_Sose
11-24-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by SplineGod
I set my first and last pose first since theyre the same. I do the middle ones next by copying the first or last pose there because you just have to swap the leg and arms positions since its just a mirror of the first and last poses.

That is where keytrack comes in handy

Irie
11-24-2002, 02:21 PM
Kaiser,

Could you point me to a tutorial on keytrak?

thx

Kaiser_Sose
11-24-2002, 02:58 PM
I am not even that far along where I need but I now Mike uses it alot so he can probably help you better

SplineGod
11-24-2002, 04:01 PM
Keytrak is nice but not necessary for doing something this simple.

Irie
11-24-2002, 04:15 PM
i dont need anything for this, now that i have the hang of the cycle. Its finished minus ankle rolls and a little hip rotation. ;)

Irie
11-24-2002, 07:51 PM
do you normally get a migraine when tweaking out the final rotations movements and cycling them?

im about to have an anurism.

SplineGod
11-24-2002, 09:16 PM
Nobody really just animates cycles like this. Theyre good as timing and weight excercises. Youll need to copy and paste the keyframes in the graph editor to "cycle" it for so many seconds. Once you determine the characters stride length you can parent his body to a null and move the null at the correct speed to make him walk across the scene rather than in place.

Irie
11-24-2002, 09:19 PM
hes not walking in place... i have been using his center control to move his body across the screen. I just gave up a few minutes ago as i keep getting lost in the keyframes and am, i suppose, just very tired of working on it. There are just some slight errors in keyframing that have totally eluded me for about an hour and I dont want to even think about it.

ahem, care to give it a try? i could give you the file. :evil laugh:

((((EDIT: NO matter how i try, i cant give up working on it... so i finally got it down... just deleted a bunch of keys and started re-rotating the ankle and such... the heel has no rotation, yet... and im not sure it will need it....i will post the file later if you are so kind, please critique it :) i really appreciate your help and not killing me for buggin you so much)))))

Irie
11-24-2002, 11:17 PM
if you can... thanks........

if not.. .i understand :beer:

matt

CGTalk Moderation
01-13-2006, 05:00 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.