The ethics of "abandoning" a job/project

[Sagii]

Hm.. I am sorry to hear that.. you sound very stressed out :sad:

Have you tried talking to the client about it and tell him that you need to focus and cant do anymore changes to be able to meet the deadline. Maybe you just have to be honest with them. I would advise against abandoning projects because it will make you look bad.

Perhaps you can have something in your contract that says after the client approves a intial of work in progress work, then they are allowed only 1 more change if not you charge them more or something (maybe something to keep in mind for future projects).

[jeremybirn]

If a client is making things impossible, be totally honest with him, tell him that his schedules or changes or whatever are compromising the project, that the results won't be as good as they could be if you can't agree on a schedule. Leaving projects in mid-process is something that word could get around about, a client could tell other people that you abandon projects without finishing them, and it would hurt your reputation. Everyone's worked on some bad/crazy projects, the only reason I would leave something unfinished is if the client cancelled it, or if they stopped making payments as they had promised to, so they were the ones who really shut it off.

-jeremy

[Meshosh]

yeah... I am pretty stressed now... :(

I should never had accepted this job... I don´t know why I didi it... maybe its because the guy was begging me to do it...

[Meshosh]

Leaving projects in mid-process is something that word could get around about, a client could tell other people that you abandon projects without finishing them, and it would hurt your reputation.

yeah... the problem is that this project has been abandoned before... that´s why I was called... and I know the guy who was working on it. he couldn´t stand it anymore too...

[jmBoekestein]

Could you outsource? As in give parts of the work to others to do and pay them. And make your employer pay for every step along the way from here. So he knows he's approving a concept etc.

[Meshosh]

Could you outsource? As in give parts of the work to others to do and pay them. And make your employer pay for every step along the way from here. So he knows he's approving a concept etc.

well... technicaly I could, but I don´t have time, money or people to work with me here... I´m pretty much on my own now....

[rebo]

Be honest with your client now, the longer you leave it the more stupid and unprofessional you will look when deadlines arrive. It may be that the client can reduce the extent of his brief, this can happen and will enable you to be paid for what you have done and the client to find another contractor to complete the project.

[DanSilverman]

I suppose I hassle my clients a little ;) , but I let them know every time there is a change or every time they delay getting me something I need to complete their project that this could affect milestones and, depending on the change, it could affect the final cost of the project. In other words, by consistant communication with my clients I try to help them see the affects they have on their own project by making changes, wanting more than was originally agreed upon or by taking their sweet time getting me agreed upon assets (i.e. a blue print for a building they want designed in 3D, etc).

As others have said here, just be honest with them. Quitting would not be the right thing to do. Word will get around. It always does.

[jmBoekestein]

well, live conferencing could save your hide perhaps?

[XLNT-3d]

it used to happen to me often, especially since I moonlight. I am burned out by the end of the day of CG and then to hit it again at night gets old. You just have to grunt through it. I finally got through several of mine, but lost a few clients in the process because of my time commitments. I made sure I at least kept two of the ones that consistantly paid on time and give me a few jobs per month. Sometimes bailing will eat at you later too. I've done it and it bugs me and who knows what sort of damage I did to myself.

Good luck

[kili]

Just tell him you're not going to hit the deadline because of unrealistic spec changes throughout the project.

I told someone today there was no way I was going to get the web work done they wanted in the time they wanted due to other things they had asked me to do.

There are only so many hours in the day/night. Some problem customers aren't worth the bother.

http://www.startupjournal.com/runbusiness/survival/20021029-morton.html

[hiphopcr]

I've been there. I was recently up til 5 in the morning doing a freelance gig and then went to work at 9 for my day job. Sometimes it's just not worth it.

Be honest, tell him what you can and can't do. If he can pay you overtime I think you should stick, if not, just cancel.

[DorkmanScott]

The real question here is, what's the contract?

[rebo]

We'll yes ofcourse the contract is important but regardless of the contract if you get a reputation for abandoning projections at the last minute. Well thats not good when looking for future contracts.

[Kanga]

Ooooh nasty this.
I think we have all been there. Most people don't understand how much work is involved to reach the end product. There is a big difference between acceptable alterations and developing something. Changing stuff because you 'screwed the pooch' is sort of normal even if you loose on the job, but that is a long way from an endless string of changes (which are often conflicting as well).

You will never forget this experience, its horrible but important.

Next time this happens you will feel it straight away. Most jobs are quoted on a piece basis, that way clients can shop around. When you get someone who gets a low price by understating a job and then trying to up it with changes you will know. Some clients are also generally enthusiastic and like to get right in there with you, but they go home at the end of the day. If I quote a job on a piece price and the changes start I smile and tell the client that I am a desiger by profession and love R&D, I suggest we switch over to an hourly rate and that the deadline should then be flexible depending on the direction taken.

That stops them dead. Funnily enough not one of these types has canceled the job. Not all of them come back mostly because this is a modus operandi. If someone genuinelly doesn't realize whats up then you have informed them. Always be polite. When the situation has gotten out of hand then fur starts to fly and everyone gets hurt.

That don't help you now does it.
I would tell the truth straight away though. I don't believe the client doesn't know if he is aware that one artist crumbled already. Tell him that the changes will have to stop otherwise you wont make it, or suggest that the deadline will have to be moved and you must switch to an hourly rate. This way you never say no.

If you take on jobs in the future that are too big for you ensure you have other artists that are specialised in the areas you are shaky in and get them to give you a quote beforehand and make sure they are able to jump in to help get it done.

Good luck man I really feel for you.

Chris

[Shaderhacker]

Well, I'm a very slow worker. I'm very thorough too though (most of the time). I always let my interviewers know this up front, because I really don't have any control over my speed unless it's something that I'm used to. My job entails writing a lot of code, and when given a new task (depending on the familiarity of the task), I must understand the theory behind the concept before I go off and code things. I also like to code in small chunks as to downsize the big problem into smaller trivial problems. Sometimes, it takes me a while to learn a new concept. Other times, I already know the concept and can just implement right away. I guess I have a happy medium when you look at the performance over a given year.

In any case, I would pull the plug on the project and never look back. I've left a couple of high profile projects midstream (or near the end) and never had any problems with my reputation being tainted for it. In one case, I left one project because I wanted to work on a better project.;) In the latter case, the company just didn't have any benefits for my family and I knew my employment was going to be limited to whenever I got a better opportunity.

I do plan on freelancing in the coming year. But I'll be up front about my work habits. If me and my client can come to a reasonable agreement, then I'll commit to it. If not, then I guess I'll try someone else who's more accommodating.


-M

[rebo]

Great Advice Kanga. Some of the best I've seen on CG talk

-------------------------



In any case, I would pull the plug on the project and never look back. I've left a couple of high profile projects midstream (or near the end) and never had any problems with my reputation being tainted for it. In one case, I left one project because I wanted to work on a better project. In the latter case, the company just didn't have any benefits for my family and I knew my employment was going to be limited to whenever I got a better opportunity.

Shaderhacker,

There is a difference between freelance, price work and being employed with a firm on a larger project. Perversely Its often easier for employed workers to have the freedom to change jobs and not complete work than it is for the percieved freedom of the self-employed.

[Dreamabyss]

Ok... what do you guys think?

I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Don't be afraid to walk away from a project when you feel like you are being taken advantage of. If you have spelled out all expectations in a contract or are doing the job as a favor, like you mentioned, AND the client is not respecting the agreement, then get out. Better to risk losing a bit of reputation than burn out. Besides, if you are having trouble, I'd wager that the client is having trouble too and you both might be better off. But you should have a face to face meeting to spell out the situation BEFORE you make the decision. You at least owe that to your client.

I've walked away from jobs that were sucking my resources and the clients were not responding. I've even told them not to call me again because they don't respect the process. Now I make sure everything is spelled out in the contract BEFORE I start work. Then when the client calls with changes beyond our original agreement, I just politely tell them how much it's going to cost and how it will affect the deliver schedule, and get prior approval. It's called a "Change Order" and must be approved and paid before I do it. I found that burn out is rare if you are getting paid extra for changes! And I have also noticed that there are far less changes when the client realizes how much extra it's going to cost or how that it might blow the schedule. Don't feel bad about charging for your time! When clients make un-reasonable requests that affect the project, you better get compensated! When was the last time you tried to buy groceries and not get charged for a few "extra" items in your basket. You get my point.

If you give your services away and work extra long hours without some kind of compensation, you will burn yourself out and may find that you are hating your job. Nothing is worth that.

[PhantomDesign]

The alarm bells should be ringing the instant you hear others abandoned the job. Don’t let your ego get the better of you (“I can do it bigger, better, faster, cheaper”) & make an effort to discover why the job was originally abandoned. Examine the project description for inconsistencies & overly casual statements (“this will be easy”). I know it’s too late for this project, but we’ll let this be a lesson for you and others reading this thread.

Fast-forward to now, another artist already quit this job – I don’t think your rep is in jeopardy. Two artists quitting the same job consecutively says more about the job than the artists. If the employer can’t get anyone to work with him, either he either has to learn his lesson or suffer. He’ll have to bad-mouth two (or more – if a 3rd artist quits) artists in order to hurt your rep – which is likely to tell everyone that this problem isn’t the artists.

A couple more suggestions…

[1] Write your own contract. I suggest you start by visiting the link below and modifying the contracts there to suit your needs. If you can afford a lawyer to look over your contract, do that too. (preparing it before hand should save the lawyer time & save you money).
http://www.cegur.com/html/framecontracts.html

[2] Be up front on the effect of all changes. I love what Kanda & Dreamabyss had to say...

If I quote a job on a piece price and the changes start I smile and tell the client that I am a desiger by profession and love R&D, I suggest we switch over to an hourly rate and that the deadline should then be flexible depending on the direction taken.
When was the last time you tried to buy groceries and not get charged for a few "extra" items in your basket.

[Meshosh]

Wow... so many answers!!! thanks guys!

well... yesterday I had one of the worst experiences ever!! I feel just awful today... just don´t know what to do now.

I met my client and told him that I just can´t deliver the job in time, that he should get somenone else to keep working on this project (full time) because his deadlines are very unrealistics... I told him that the project was much harder than we both expected and we had to do something about it...
Ok... he agreed, and was quite happy with my aproach, because I was being very honest about it...
So I stayed in his studio last night, just to organize everything (max files, maps, etc) and copy it to his computer so he could work on it the next day.
But it took me some time to do it... the files are very big, and take a while to open, check if everything is there, save, rename, archive, etc... so, I stayed there for more time then I expected.. (about midnight)

When I was almost finished, someone called on my cell phone... it was the police! they asked me if my car had been stolen!:eek:
I just ran into the street, where I´ve left my car to find it with both doors opened and the officers checking the inside of my car to figure out what happened.
SOMEONE BROKE INTO MY CAR AND STOLE MY RADIO, AND MY DIGITAL CAMERA... while I was working!!! they broke one of the doors and part of the panel, where the radio was attached... they didn´t take the car just because someone called the police in time... but the a$$holes got away before the police got there!

Now I have to repair my car, and buy a new camera... but I realy need some money to do it, but I just don´t want ever to go back there... I was willing to go back there one more day, just to help them finish the job, but now I can´t even think about it....
This job brought me way too much trouble... but I was just not expecting this much... :sad:

[JamesMK]

Oh man... that's one jinxed project :scream:

At any rate, you now have the required (and horrible) experience to identify this kind of job before you accept it next time. It's sooooooo nasty, but I guess we all have to be there at least once to grasp what it's all about.

Just a few months ago I turned down a project solely based on the fact that I recognised the hidded horrors inside... While it can be painful to think about the heaps of cash you've just said 'no thanks' to, I strongly believe that at the end of the day, it's better to save whatever sanity one has left rather than take on something that's bound to end up being total murder.

Hope you'll get that car thing sorted out - and it sounds to me like you pulled out of the project in an honourable way :thumbsup:


.

[Shaderhacker]

Wow... so many answers!!! thanks guys!

well... yesterday I had one of the worst experiences ever!! I feel just awful today... just don´t know what to do now.

I met my client and told him that I just can´t deliver the job in time, that he should get somenone else to keep working on this project (full time) because his deadlines are very unrealistics... I told him that the project was much harder than we both expected and we had to do something about it...
Ok... he agreed, and was quite happy with my aproach, because I was being very honest about it...
So I stayed in his studio last night, just to organize everything (max files, maps, etc) and copy it to his computer so he could work on it the next day.
But it took me some time to do it... the files are very big, and take a while to open, check if everything is there, save, rename, archive, etc... so, I stayed there for more time then I expected.. (about midnight)

Very honorable indeed. :thumbsup:


Now I have to repair my car, and buy a new camera... but I realy need some money to do it, but I just don´t want ever to go back there... I was willing to go back there one more day, just to help them finish the job, but now I can´t even think about it....
This job brought me way too much trouble... but I was just not expecting this much... :sad:

OMG!! :eek: I know how you feel man! My car got broken into this year as well and they tried to take my DVD/Nav system.

I hope you have comprehensive insurance dude. I'm very sorry.. :sad:

-M

[Kanga]

I wasn't being trite,... I really do love R&D,... oh to sink my teeth into a good lengthy project instead of wham bam thank you mam!

Could I be ready for a real relationship?....... GADZOOKS:scream:

[SpeccySteve]

The alarm bells should be ringing the instant you hear others abandoned the job.

Yup, made that mistake once, never again.

Agreed to do some design / layout work for a print job that someone else had "messed up", final output was going to be big so I did it in vectors, submitted disk with the Illustrator files and some preview jpegs. In large letters on the disk I write "ILLUSTRATOR VECTOR FILES AND LOW RESOLUTION PREVIEW JPEGS- DO NOT PRINT JPEGS! USE iLLUSTRATOR FILES!"

Next meeting, client explains to me that he's dissapointed at how "blocky" and "pixelly" the results look when printed, yup, you guessed it, he's printed out the 8x600 previews at larger than A0 size, either that or somehow managed to convert the vectors into bitmaps before they went to print.

Judging by the "messed up" sample he showed me, he'd done exactly the same to the earlier guys work.

[richcz3]

Change Orders, Change Orders, Change Orders...
I always include that in my contracts and discuss the implications with a client in detail.
It has arrived to the point that "Perpetual Project" is now in my vernacular. The customer is eased into the idea that run away projects have run away budgets like the movie industry.
When something is signed off on, there is a commitment to complete that order to meet mile stones and deadlines.

One of the biggest issues I still have is resolving who actually has the last say in a project. To this day (Novemer 14 to be exact), I still get producers who hold out on submitting content to the real decision makers. This is even with a safegaurd in the contracts I write stating disclosure of decision makers and timely reviews of work in progress. The medical project I was working on was scuttled last month because the costs faced in the "Change Orders".

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