MeshSmooth alternative?

[Chris]

There is another subdivision plugin already within Max. the HSDS modifier, you could try that. What dont you like about Meshsmooth though? Its the dogs bollocks! :)

[Ulukai]

I will try explaining with this graphic. And thanks, I am going to try with HSDS.

[NNNSlogan]

You could try the Reyes Infografica plugin called SurfReyes. It's similar and I've seen some pretty amazing stuff done with it.

[Ulukai]

OOps, the graphic...

[Chris]

Hmmm, you might be out of luck there... you could play around with weighting vertices in the Meshsmooth modifier, but I dont think you are going to find a subdivision plugin that actually adds volume to a mesh. You could try using a combination of volume select & push set before the meshsmooth modifier in the stack to move vertices out prior to them being smoothed. I think the real key is to know how your subdivision plugin affects the mesh & model it accordingly... :shrug:

[Chris]

eg:

[Ulukai]

Thank you :wavey:

[NNNSlogan]

If you want to expand the area of an object somewhat uniformly you could experiment with the push modifier.

[Iain McFadzen]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Meshsmooth, just learn to use it better :)

[tAstyBITs]

I agree use it more. I like the do all my work in edit poly with a mesh smooth on top. I toogle the show end result button so I can see the mesh smooth while I'm working in edit poly that way I can get rid of the mesh smooth at any time without loosing anything. Also I found if you have lots of objects you can select all of them and add a smooth and they will all share the same modifier setting. So when you select one object and turn interations down to 0 all the objects that share this modifier will go to 0.

There is a way to do the interpolation throught the points use the tesellation modifier it does exaclty what your asking for.

[John-Stetzer]

Originally posted by Ulukai
OOps, the graphic...

Looks like how a patch works in Max. You could try converting your box model to a patch object (Turn to Patch will give the best results here), then run the Patch Smooth script on Michael Comet's website...

http://www.comet-cartoons.com/toons/maxscript.cfm

... and make adjustments from there. As far as an alternative to meshsmooth, I have some friends who prefer to use a combination of Tessellate and Relax.

[little]

you could also use the relax and teselate modifier

[Irfan]

Originally posted by Iain McFadzen
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Meshsmooth, just learn to use it better :)


o_O

what do you mean, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the meshsmooth modifier??

It is totally outdated IMO.. it is slow as hell, it doesnt do a good job in smoothing the faces (but thats, I think, a max problem), and the way it tesselates the surface should be changed as well.


nuff said,

[KiboOst]

LOL, if meshsmooth is wrong, then it's not only a max problem, as many 3d package do exactly the same result with same mesh :shrug:

Kib

[RockinAkin]

what do you mean, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the meshsmooth modifier??

It is totally outdated IMO.. it is slow as hell, it doesnt do a good job in smoothing the faces (but thats, I think, a max problem), and the way it tesselates the surface should be changed as well.

nuff said.
Could you imagine where the 3D community would be without MESHSMOOTH (or whatever else it's called in other progams) ?!?!?!

Hail it's smoothy smoothness. :bowdown:

-DivideByZero-

[Irfan]

Originally posted by KiboOst
LOL, if meshsmooth is wrong, then it's not only a max problem, as many 3d package do exactly the same result with same mesh :shrug:

Kib

Then I am sorry to say that you havent seen so many 3d packages :P

They are NOT doing exactly the same thing, they are very similar but saying that they are "exactly" the same is not true.

[dvornik]

Yeah, I just tried Lightwave and it actually lets you work directly with the smoothed surface so you don't have to guess how it will look like or preview every minute. And waaaay faster than max. Here (http://home.earthlink.net/~dvornik/cgt/tech/LW1.jpg) , I'm using lightwave for a day and a half. The left side is what you are actually working on.

[Irfan]

Originally posted by dvornik
Yeah, I just tried Lightwave and it actually lets you work directly with the smoothed surface so you don't have to guess how it will look like or preview every minute. And waaaay faster than max. Here (http://home.earthlink.net/~dvornik/cgt/tech/LW1.jpg) , I'm using lightwave for a day and a half.

Ah good, someone who at least took a look a two programs here :)

Lightwaves MetaNurbs are a very good example of how different "other" 3d packages work!

LW does a much better job in applying smoothing groups (max term) to the object and it tesselates the surface using the amount of subdivisions and not iterations. For the max peeps, it would be like applying a 1.5 iteration in max.
You can also notice in the screenshot that dvornik posted that it displays the base objects edges as curves on the subdivided surface.
And last but not least it is soooo fast even if you set the subdivsions to 6 which is the equivalent to something between 2 and 3 iterations in meshsmooth and I hope you guys know that max gets reeeeaaally slow then....

[dvornik]

Man, you can have 2 synchronised smoothed views (subdiv of 4) and there's not a slightest hint on viewport slowdown. A completely different experience as far as this type of modelling is concerned. Don't want to start a war cause I like max and am aware of it's strong points.

[edit] About the strong points of max poly modelling: LW can only subdivide quads and triangles and it's poly tools are limited compared to max in my opinion.

[yon dabuda]

dvornik: "poly tools are limited compared to max in my opinion." i wouldnt be so quick to judge that. there are many options to most of the tools, from falloff radius and type to different opperations and numeric commands. there are also a lot more "hidden tools" then you would see on the interface. also the average lw user will have a ton of additional tools downloaded from flay. i would say it has the most extensive list of tools for polygon/sub-d modelling.
try "magic bevel" and click on "n" to see, or try the "vertex paint" tool. press "n" on any tool you'll know what i mean. :)

[dvornik]

Yon, first of all you're the guy who really inspired me to use LW (see yon's videos). So I wouldn't argue with you. But I do get an impression that lots of tools are 3d party like meshtools was in max and it takes some insider knowledge to learn about them. I've tried magic bevel while building a cup :). I like Bobo's Bevelman though and Maya's bevel gizmo. And I keep the numeric panel open, too, it's pretty useful.

[Irfan]

Originally posted by yon dabuda
dvornik: "poly tools are limited compared to max in my opinion." i wouldnt be so quick to judge that. there are many options to most of the tools, from falloff radius and type to different opperations and numeric commands. there are also a lot more "hidden tools" then you would see on the interface. also the average lw user will have a ton of additional tools downloaded from flay. i would say it has the most extensive list of tools for polygon/sub-d modelling.
try "magic bevel" and click on "n" to see, or try the "vertex paint" tool. press "n" on any tool you'll know what i mean. :)

I totally agree, just the symmetry tool alone in Lightwave is AFAIK unique. I havent seen any other program which offers a symmetry tool where you dont have to have a middle edge... :/

When I saw how Taron models a head in Lightwave, I was totally blown away by the speed and smoothness of the surface (in max you have to use ALOT of iterations to get rid of artifacts caused by bad smoothing groups and then it becomes slow) and how the tools respond, eg. you dont have to click on a vertex to move it around...

[yon dabuda]

dvornik: you're right, there are definate advantages to inbuilt tools. im just pointing out that there is more than meets the eye :)


Irfan: i think a lot of my modelling has been inspired by taron though ive never seen him model, only seen his models.
the middle poly thing is something i picked up from him, its made me look at surface curves a whole different way. :)

[Irfan]

Originally posted by yon dabuda
dvornik: you're right, there are definate advantages to inbuilt tools. im just pointing out that there is more than meets the eye :)


Irfan: i think a lot of my modelling has been inspired by taron though ive never seen him model, only seen his models.
the middle poly thing is something i picked up from him, its made me look at surface curves a whole different way. :)

I changed my modeling method as well after watching Taron model, especially in terms of keeping everything quads :)

You're method is very similar to his btw :)

Keep up the good work!

[dvornik]

Who's Taron?

[Irfan]

Originally posted by dvornik
Who's Taron?

Taron is probably one of the most talented Lightwave artists around. Unfortunately his site is down www.taron.de
But you can see some of his old work at raph: http://raph.com/3dartists/artgallery/ag-ap139.html

He is currently working at computercafe in LA: www.computercafe.com if you go into the R'n'D section of the site, you will see some of his other work as well.
Also on the messiah website at www.projectmessiah.com under the theatre section you can find some other animations as well

:)

[ThirdEye]

Nice to see Irfan Celik here at cgtalk (please don't ask "who is Irfan?") :D

[Iain McFadzen]

Irfan: Of course Meshsmooth is clunky and outdated in comparison with other apps, practically everything in Max is, my comment about there being "nothing wrong with it" was in response to the guy who origiinally posted the thread. His problems had nothing to do with meshsmooth's shortcomings, they were the result of him not understanding how to use it properly.

[gaggle]

Ah, at least MAX beats Maya's "Smooth" any day of the week, hands down, with one hand tied to it's back and limping and and and...
:p

The actual smoothing in all these programs are, as far as I know, done by the same algorithm named "Catmull-Clark".
..I.. don't have much of a point mentioning that I guess :), just throwing it out there.

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