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Leebre
11-29-2005, 08:21 AM
I went to look at the example doll eye scenes and noticed that I no longer had a doll eyes node. Seems like I have the same problem as mentioned in this thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=294795) (including the particle errors).

I decided to do a little experimenting so I completely uninstalled messiah, then reinstalled from 2.0b. I then applied the 2.2b update (it says it can be used on 2.0b or higher). The problem with this is that it does not appear to be cumulative although it leads you to believe you won't be missing anything when going from 2.0b to 2.2b. I didn't get all the box controller examples or the basic shader updates, etc. Unfortunately you can't go download the previous updates to get those features. That could really suck for someone that doesn't have the 2.1a and 2.2a udpates to use first.

The whole thing is pretty confusing and frustrating. Either 2.2b needs to be cumulative (and it needs to have the "what's new" notes from the 2.1a and 2.2a udpates included) or the previous updates need to be made available and there needs to be explicit instructions on the proper install process. Please address this issue!

I wanted to email pmg support but couldn't bring up any pages but the main page and the downloads page which is why I am posting here.

AlexK
11-29-2005, 12:37 PM
I went to look at the example doll eye scenes and noticed that I no longer had a doll eyes node. Seems like I have the same problem as mentioned in this thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=294795) (including the particle errors).
So it is not me after all. Good to know, but sad to know. ;)
I decided to do a little experimenting so I completely uninstalled messiah, then reinstalled from 2.0b. I then applied the 2.2b update (it says it can be used on 2.0b or higher). The problem with this is that it does not appear to be cumulative although it leads you to believe you won't be missing anything when going from 2.0b to 2.2b. I didn't get all the box controller examples or the basic shader updates, etc. Unfortunately you can't go download the previous updates to get those features. That could really suck for someone that doesn't have the 2.1a and 2.2a udpates to use first.
That is scary. I didn't notice that.

The whole thing is pretty confusing and frustrating. Either 2.2b needs to be cumulative (and it needs to have the "what's new" notes from the 2.1a and 2.2a udpates included) or the previous updates need to be made available and there needs to be explicit instructions on the proper install process. Please address this issue!
I second that.
I wanted to email pmg support but couldn't bring up any pages but the main page and the downloads page which is why I am posting here.
That's a bug with the site design. Try to use the bottom navigation and everything works. :banghead:

Leebre
11-29-2005, 02:45 PM
I can get to the other pages on the pmg site now...probably just a hiccup last night. I did another install from scratch and applied each of the patches in sucession (2.1a, 2.2a, 2.2b) and it seems to have given me everything but the Taron files - you can do a search to find the link, althought that link is not listed @ the pmg site). I still have particles-related error in my log file. I emailed support so maybe I'll hear something from them.

I just need to vent a little because I'm frustrated and disappointed at the moment due to my lack of productivity with messiah. If you look at some of the work the elites are doing with messiah you can see that it is obviously a powerful app...but it just isn't clicking with me...and it's not because of a lack of effort on my part. I figure if I can become comfortable with everything from ZBrush2 to vi then I should be able to jive with just about any app no matter how quirky. But I'll be damned if I'm not still fighting with messiah just to get it to do simple things. There's always some bug, or unkown feature, or secret work-around that I keep running into. I just don't think it should be this difficult for me express my ideas. I'm seriously beginning to wonder if maybe me and messiah just aren't a good combination. I don't want to admit that because I really want to like this app! But I've found myself giving more and more serious consideration to moving to a different app because I'm getting tired of wrestling with messiah.

Phew...glad I got that off my chest. If I didn't care as much as I do I wouldn't bother to say anything at all. But I want very much to support this app.

DMack
11-29-2005, 03:02 PM
You know leebert, I have pretty much said EXACTLY the same thing in a couple of posts. If the app was completely flawed then I'd not get as frustrated as I do sometimes - I'd just walk away. The frustration that I feel, and that I think you're feeling is that it is SUCH a good app in general, spoilt by a few irritations...and to me at least, they seem to be in areas that are crucial to the package and so the frustration can be quite extreme! I'd say stick with it until the next update at least - I truely believe (boy I hope I'm right) that they are addressing a LOT of the issues that we have all grumbled about. I remember a while back grumbling about the inability to mass keyframe delete and wham, in the next release they'd addressed it.

I have my fingers crossed. My feeling is that the Dev team is simply too small to develop both animate and render and so some collaboration with another party (I'd prefer Lux!) would be the best route. As with a lot of 3D companies (Newtek, Lux and some other's I believe) I am hoping for an update or at least solid news Q4 this year.........

Leebre
11-29-2005, 03:44 PM
I've grumbled before about pretty much the same thing, but I think I'm getting to the point where I'm actually considering going elsewhere. For now I'm going to keep plugging away and I hope I'll make a break-through. And maybe the udpate will be pretty amazing. But like I said, I'm really wondering if maybe me and messiah just aren't a good fit. That makes me sad.

Wegg
11-29-2005, 11:57 PM
:-(

I wish we all lived in the same town. I'd love to have you guys come over so I could show you how I use it. I just love using this program. Every time I have to use Lightwave I cringe. But. . . I also think the rigs I make for myself are VERY basic. I just don't have things like dynamic bones and fancy shmancy hand coded expressions etc. I just throw bones in and move em around. Muscle bones are a blast to use and produce such amazing results. Soft body dynamics took me a little while to figure out but I'm very happy with the results. And the renderer. Bloody hell. . . I just LOVE it.

/me sends positive encouranging brain waves to Leebert and DMak.

You know. . . there are a few of us that just sit in IRC and could probably help you with this stuff.

irc.freenode.net

#Messiah3d

Leebre
11-30-2005, 01:59 AM
Hmm...don't know why I haven't spent any time in the irc channel but I'll get my arse over there asap. Ftwep responded to my tech support request and provided me wtih an updated particle plug-in file but it didn't fix the issue so I guess there's somethiing else going on.

DMack
11-30-2005, 08:10 AM
Hey Wegg,

Don't get me wrong - I am a big fan of Messiah Animate! I just feel a few tweaks here and there rather than any more feature additions ad it'd be amazing! I am really looking forward to the next update (be great to know if wer're weeks, months or years away!)....but at the back of my mind, I can't help but think that things do need to change - The dev team is simply not big enought, IMO, to keep both a CA suite and a renderer up to date (which is why I sooo want them to hook up with Lux) - if I'm wrong on this I'd love to hear it!

David

PS Can you stop the encouraging brain waves now, they're interfering with the telephone system ;)

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