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ErichSchreiner
11-28-2005, 09:13 AM
hi there. i participated in Rebeccas workshop (which was excellent btw :) ) where she mentioned this forum, so here i am ready to do more work.

My goal will be to raise my knowledge in the field of anatomy. To achieve this i will do copies of master drawings out of ANATOMY LESSONS OF THE OLD MASTERS, i will make studies of photographs and i will post non-referenced stuff.

One weak point of mine are stiff looking poses, so i hope to solve that as soon as possible.

btw i'm self taught. if you want to see my other stuff, feel free to visit my website (http://www.iconictales.com/).

ErichSchreiner
11-28-2005, 10:23 AM
Well, i guess it's ok now to post some stuff out of the workshop. i used graphite on paper only, and i made a lot of additional stuff, that is not worth to be showed here.

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/skull01_final.jpg



http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/skull02_final.jpg

ErichSchreiner
11-28-2005, 10:25 AM
http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/foot01final.jpg
http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/foot02final.jpg

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/hand01final.jpg

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/kneefinal.jpg

default-rol
11-28-2005, 10:28 AM
Erich,

You were a super hard worker on the course, and a really nice bloke to know. Your work was inspirational to us all, well done. :thumbsup:

MIKE *looking forward to seeing the momentum keep going*

ErichSchreiner
11-28-2005, 10:29 AM
and some more stuff...

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/trunkfrontspecial.jpg

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/trunkbackspecial.jpg

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/trunksidespecial.jpg

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/arms01.jpg

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/arms02.jpg

http://www.iconictales.com/anatomy/legs_special.jpg

ErichSchreiner
11-28-2005, 10:36 AM
@Mike
thx. you had a strong output too, it was nice watching that effort. :)

now keep it up!

Rebeccak
11-28-2005, 11:12 AM
Erich,

I don't have time atm to write much, but I will say that you contributed just an invaluable amount of time, energy, and hard work to the Workshop, and I greatly appreciate your efforts! You've done a brilliant job, and were a star of the class. It was a true pleasure to work with you, and I look forward to continuing to do so here on the Anatomy Forum. :applause:

Best,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
11-28-2005, 11:19 AM
@Rebecca

thank you very much again for the course. and i will keep my work up :)

here's a sketch done after the course without any ref

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/viking.jpg

Rebeccak
11-28-2005, 01:22 PM
Erich,

You should post some of your beautiful illustration work here, as well. :)

Cheers, :)

~Rebecca

Mu
11-28-2005, 02:53 PM
Hi Erich,

I must say that haveing seen your renderings of skeletal parts for the first time I felt an urge to do this, too.

They look exciting and beautiful. I can't remember having seen any skulls/skeletals that made me feel like this.

Rebeccak
11-29-2005, 12:40 AM
Erich,

If you feel that you are weak in the area of creating stiff looking poses, either from imagination, life, or from reference, then you should participate with us in the 15 Minute Sketchathon, which is a Sticky Thread at the top of this forum. The purpose of the thread is to try and capture the essence of a figure's movement in as little time as possible. Though the title is "15 Minute Sketchathon", I have encouraged others and I will encourage you to time yourself, using the same Reference, for consecutive 2, 5, and 15 minute poses. Try to capture the essence of the pose in 2 minutes consistently, and your figures will naturally and of necessity start to loosen up. Nearly every figure class I have ever been in begins with a long set of progressively longer poses, starting with 2 minutes, and progressing into 5, 10, 15, and 25 minute poses from there.

I hope that you will participate in that thread! Feel free to also post your best results here in your personal Anatomy Thread, as well as in the 15 Min. Sketchathon Thread. :)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
11-29-2005, 09:29 AM
@Mr Mu

thx for your kind words, they remind me that it was worth it :)

@Rebecca

i downloaded all poses from the thread and will try it out soon, thx :)

another sketch, not that serious...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/highpristess01.jpg

Rebeccak
11-29-2005, 11:10 AM
Erich,

Re: 15 MS ~ sweet. :) I think what we're going to work on next with you is Opposing Curves. :) Check out:

REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=255700)

Just the tutorial at the front / beginning of the thread.

Cheers, :)

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
12-03-2005, 08:20 AM
i totally agree, Rebecca. was sick again for three days, so i couldn't do anything. third time this winter, really ridiculous :)

just a scribble

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warrior03.jpg

default-rol
12-03-2005, 09:16 AM
Nice scribble Erich! :thumbsup:

MIKE

Rebeccak
12-03-2005, 12:44 PM
Erich,

Better movement in this one! I think next I'll totally confuse you and post some stuff on some really expressive / gestural drawings in the total opposite vein as the direction we went in in the Workshop. I think it will be really good for you! :)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-03-2005, 01:05 PM
thx Rebecca. just post'em :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/ex01.jpg

erilaz
12-03-2005, 01:19 PM
Great to see all your finals in one place Erich! Hope to see more and more from you. :D

By the way, I LOVE the way you've presented the pieces.

Rebeccak
12-03-2005, 01:26 PM
Erich,

Did you see ruffstuff's post (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2876525&postcount=588) in the 15 Minute Sketchathon?

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2876525&postcount=588

That's a great example of the type of work I'd like to get you to do. Lots of energy and movement / really going for a stylization of form and getting the essence of the pose.

Will post some stuff soon. :)

In the meantime, I recommend doing as many 2 minute / 5 minute / 15 minute poses as possible. 2 minute poses are the best, in my opinion, for loosening up, and really capturing the essence and gesture of the pose. Regularly doing them is key. I think it's the equivalent of a good warm~up ~ they are warm~ups, really, but in some cases you can really come up with some brilliant drawings, as ruffstuff has.

Cheers, :)

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
12-03-2005, 01:38 PM
@Martin

hi and thx. no prob, i will let'em come as hell :)



@Rebecca

ok, saw them. so i'll try that, thx. :)

very quick study after ref

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/ex02.jpg

Rebeccak
12-03-2005, 01:39 PM
Rubens? He rocks. Great to see Master Studies. More, please. :thumbsup:

ErichSchreiner
12-03-2005, 07:13 PM
nope, sorry...it's Giovanni Batista.

Next try :) (i messed up one leg...and one figure is missing)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/ex03.jpg

and two speedies

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t04.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t05.jpg

pushav
12-03-2005, 07:30 PM
Nice hatchmark shading that you have going on.
Keep up the good work.

Rebeccak
12-03-2005, 07:31 PM
nope, sorry...it's Giovanni Batista.

Whoops, missed on that one! :scream: Whoever it is, glad to see your copies and quick sketches. In your fast sketches, I would go for even looser, less representational lines at first. Try to catpure the essence and feel of the pose as much as the realistic depiction of it.

I posted this on the Beginner's Lounge thread as an example of a good Gesture Drawing, and I'll post it here also:

http://www.cwturner.com/portfolio_lg/gesture_girl.jpg

Have you ever used charcoal pencils before? I think they are great for using on newsprint (large format) to really get sweeping lines into one's drawings.

Cheers, :)

~Rk

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 02:58 AM
Erich,

I don't know if you have or have not seen this thread, but I think it would be a useful one to take a look at, at least the first several posts, which contain the tutorial:

REBECCA KIMMEL'S Anatomy Review 002: OPPOSING CURVES (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=255700)

This is a tutorial which was run on the Anatomy Forum in July, so it will not show up unless you change the settings at the bottom of the screen to show all threads From the "Beginning". It is also linked permanently in the:

Tutorials, Workshops, Anatomy Reviews & More ... [links within] (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=273525)

Sticky Thread at the top of the Forum.

Here is the 1st post (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2436712&postcount=1) from that tutorial which I think would be of the most interest to you, containing the tutorial only, and not everyone's posts:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2436712&postcount=1

Check it out, and let me know what you think. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 07:51 AM
@pushav

thx

@Rebecca
yeah i already read the tut, but i thought this would be step two, after the gesture drawing.
so if i got it right, you first make the gesture drawing, then opposing curves, then shading.

now do you measure (at least a bit) while you make the gesture drawing? because if that's proportionally not right, you have to correct it afterwards, and then it might become more stiff again, doesn't it?
Or in other words: how do i connect the gesture-phase and the what-we-did-in-the-workshop-thing best?

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 09:30 AM
tried some speedies again. and i think to see some progress at the bottom of No3 and the entire No4, but it's not stylized enough.


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t06.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t07.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t08.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t09.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 10:19 AM
another bunch...still not stylized enough. what do you think rebecca?

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t10.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t11.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t12.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t13.jpg

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 12:30 PM
Erich,

A book which I would recommend for you is "The Vilppu Drawing Manual" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1892053039/qid=1133702471/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-1601824-0899033?n=507846&s=books&v=glance) by Glenn Vilppu. He has taught animators for years.

Here are some examples of his work:

http://mag.awn.com/issue4.03/4.03images/4.03vilppu_03.jpg
http://mag.awn.com/issue4.03/4.03images/4.03vilppu_03.jpg

http://www.prosketch.com/welcome_folder/sketchpad_folder/artschool_folder/books/Vilppu1.jpg
http://www.prosketch.com/welcome_folder/sketchpad_folder/artschool_folder/books/Vilppu1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/some_guy/305-Vilppu.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/some_guy/305-Vilppu.jpg

http://www.artistravel.com/images/TEACHERS_PICS/GLENN_VILPPUS_PICS/VIL_PIC_6.JPG
http://www.artistravel.com/images/TEACHERS_PICS/GLENN_VILPPUS_PICS/VIL_PIC_6.JPG

http://www.nic-rad.com/ca/boxes2.jpg
http://www.nic-rad.com/ca/boxes2.jpg

http://www.nic-rad.com/ca/boxes.jpg
http://www.nic-rad.com/ca/boxes.jpg

Will post some more thoughts soon. :)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 12:51 PM
Erich,

I have this book. If you would like to get it, I can work with you through the exercises. It might be good practice for me, too. :)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 01:01 PM
thx rebecca, looks great and has a lot of good critiques...so goodbye 50 dollars :) . have to import it, so it may take some while.

just playing around

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/souleater.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 01:07 PM
oversaw your last post: Let's start! :)

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 01:14 PM
Erich,

Hmm, yeah, I hate recommending these books sometimes because I know it's so much more expensive for Europeans...but I think in this case, it's worth the investment. :)

I think that he and Burne Hogarth have the most well~documented system in terms of approaching the breakdown of the figure. I have learned from both Hogarth and from the same school of thought as Vilppu, but it helps me to put my own system together by working on the forum and by teaching the CGWorkshops. Hopefully one day I can refer people to my own book. ;)

At any rate, keep working on the 15 MS in the meantime ~ the key is just to get the practice at this point. On the Beginners' Lounge thread, last post, Margie made a good point about drawing with media that makes it difficult to draw details ~ such as a brush with ink, charcoal sticks, etc. I think it might be a good exercise for you.

With respect to integrating different approaches to learning how to draw:

I've thought A LOT about this over the years as I've tried to integrate the different approaches that I was taught in school. I had well over a dozen different drawing / painting teachers, each with their own approach, and oftentimes it was confusing to sort through which approach to take and why.

Ultimately, an approach is just that ~ an approach ~ and there is no right or wrong way to learn how to draw. Things that may seem contradictory ~ like the accuracy / detailed approach to learning anatomy in the CGWorkshop, vs. the Gesture / loose / capture the essence approach I'm advocating in the 15 Min. Sketchathon, are actually good to do in conjunction with one another ~ the combining of the two or three or however many approaches you learn comes over time, as you process these various techniques and approaches yourself.

As such, I was never taught a system of integration for all of the different approaches I learned in school ~ that has been a process that I have undertaken myself in the years since undergraduate school, and my primary point of departure has been through the study of master works. Doing so many has helped me to integrate all of the different things that I couldn't resolve in school ~ some styles you are taught simply don't mesh easily with others, and it takes hard work to get them to combine ~ the ultimate result of which is your own sensibility, and style.

I know I've rambled, but I hope this makes sense. :)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

Mu
12-04-2005, 01:24 PM
Hi rebecca,

I have found these elaborations quite useful as it further clarifies my questions about this subject.

As concerns Vilppu: You gave me the same recommendation and as I can not spend the fifty bucks this year I was searching for other sources - and in the Art Theories forum in the Tutorials-sticky they have a link to Vilppu articles (Drawing section). Could bridge the gap, Erich:)

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 01:26 PM
well ok, now i understand it. so everybody develops an approach that fits best to him over the time, and what we did in the workshop and the 15 MS are different ones.

ok, just to repeat: gesture drawing is first (big picture), 2nd opposing curves and 3rd shading. guess this is your actual personal process?

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 01:27 PM
thx Mr Mu, i'll check this out :)

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 01:37 PM
Mr. Mu,

Hehe, thanks ~ I know, often I'll get asked a question on one thread, and it'll take me a while to process it ~ I know this is surprising given my Korean post~bot reputation ;) ~ and lo and behold, the "answer" will surface in response to another person's direct or indirect inquiry. I'm sort of like an unreliable magic eight ball. :scream:

At any rate, I definitely had you in mind when responding to this question. It's the beauty of the forums that you guys get to interact, and one person's issues are mostly universal.

More directly in response to your earlier question, there are two reasons why I cannot give a perfect answer to your question:

1. I don't have a perfectly formalized system myself. The forum helps me as much in terms of putting together that system as I hope it helps folks on the forum learn how to draw and paint traditionally and digitally. Having said that, there is probably a lot more that I know than I am able to express thus far / due to the nature of the web / time constraints / etc. I am working hard to move forward in my ability to teach. :)

2. There is no perfect answer. Getting different approaches to harmonize is HARD WORK. But I think you are at the point now where you just wish to learn a solid approach, which I completely understand. I have heard that Loomis' approach is a lot more rigorous than Vilppu's approach, which is a bit more romantic / expressive. I personally didn't learn according to Loomis' approach, so I am hard~pressed to teach it. I am much better qualified to teach according to the Vilppu approach, which I find more approachable by your average student anyway. Having said that, I think that whatever way people want to learn is fine. It just takes discipline and drive and practice to learn.

I hope I haven't confused your further!

The long and short of it is: In terms of this forum, I am most likely going to teach in terms of the methods that Vilppu, Carmean, Hogarth, and others taught me, either directly or indirectly. I recommend for anyone to purchase Vilppu's Drawing Manual, as it gives us a common basis from which to work. However, I am happy to look at / critique work done according to ANY method. By no means am I a dictator of style.

Hope this helps! :)

EDIT: With respect to $, the main reason I'm running this forum is to be able to provide as much free information to artists as possible. So I completely understand the cost issue (particularly with respect to European folks trying to get hold of expensive imported books). I'll do my best to try to break things down in my own *patented* system. ;)

Cheers, :)

~Rebecca

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 01:48 PM
originally posted by Erich: well ok, now i understand it. so everybody develops an approach that fits best to him over the time, and what we did in the workshop and the 15 MS are different ones.
Yep!

ok, just to repeat: gesture drawing is first (big picture), 2nd opposing curves and 3rd shading. guess this is your actual personal process?
Erich, Here is an individual post from my Anatomy Thread which probably best shows my personal process (at least on some days!):

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2855537&postcount=68

I think you're basically right.

1. Gesture
2. Opposing Curves
3. Shading.

However, the goal is to KEEP the Gesture and Opposing Curves alive up through the Shading step. It's not easy to do. When people (including myself) shade, they tend to flatten things out. Mentally, you have to constantly think about the Gesture and Opposing Curves, and put that into your Drawing as you are Shading.

So, while these steps seem sequential on paper, in practice, you are trying to think of them all at once.

Hope this makes sense. :)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

Margie
12-04-2005, 03:06 PM
I have heard that Loomis' approach is a lot more rigorous than Vilppu's approach, which is a bit more romantic / expressive.


Loomis covers a lot more ground than most art instructors and does so in a pretty fast pace. It's more technical, and the more advanced books Creative Illustration & Succesful Drawing are clearly aimed at people who wish to make a living as illustrators. And illustrators have to be able to draw anything and everything. The emphasis is on figure drawing and portraiture, but he also covers perspective, composition, the use of color and value and anatomy. The latter is not his strongest point and definitely not enough to get a good grip on the matter. He knew his limits and advised people to get a good anatomy book to study from.

However, a book like Fun with a Pencil (http://d538518.u320.bigcrawler.com/fun/fun.htm) teaches the basics of building form with simple shapes and lines. So now I'm going to confuse everybody even more (muahahaha! :twisted: just kiddin' guys!)
and say that Fun with a Pencil could be very useful to learn to simplify drawings.

Margie
12-04-2005, 03:34 PM
Just wanted to say that I really like this drawing! :)



just playing around

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/souleater.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 05:02 PM
thx Margie...creating creatures is real fun :)

@Rebecca

i just visited vilppus homepage, and i hope that one can use the drawing lessons book without buying 12 accompanying dvds???

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 07:03 PM
Erich,

Hehe, I know what you mean ~ no worries, the book is independent of the DVDs, and thus worth your investment. :)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-04-2005, 08:36 PM
@rebecca
well ok then, got lucky :)

just playing around...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/fortuneteller.jpg

Rebeccak
12-04-2005, 09:53 PM
Erich,

You ought to post your digital paintings up here. :) I think they'd give a better sense of your experience as an all 'round artist. Plus, they're just nice. :)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-05-2005, 12:10 PM
hm, don't know. that stuff is already old. btw, it's all on my website (http://www.iconictales.com)


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/mommysboy.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-05-2005, 05:22 PM
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/deceiver.jpg

next try...

Rebeccak
12-05-2005, 05:33 PM
Erich,

I think you ought to start considering taking these creatures, and constructing a narrative around them, and doing a finished digital painting (or two). It's great to see so much work, but at the end of the day, you will want something which you can present in a portfolio ~ and you certainly have the digital skills to carry it off. Let's see you flex some digital muscle! :) We all know you can do finished drawings extremely well ~ I think the next logical step is to take your fantasy drawings a bit further down the pike.

Try to come up with something beyond the typical large monster / small female character type deal. Really look into folklore and read stories, and invest your characters with some emotional heft. It might be cool to do a few compositional sketches, as well as color comps.

Any thoughts? :)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
12-05-2005, 06:11 PM
i have to fill my portfolio within the next few months. first i wanted to do a portfolio just for illustrations, but now i have some concept areas in it, and there go those half-finished sketches. i'll collect 'em there, review them in a few weeks and kick the bad ones out. i'll have to do a few grayscale illus and many color illus, but first i'll have to find some ideas, as you have mentioned. With these sketches i also try to find a way that is fast, but, as a quick concept, presentational (and that's really not easy...)

i'm going to leave the sketchathon behind for some time, because i thought about it, and i recognized that i really haven't internalized the first approach (your course, proportions, measurement...). i also ordered some books to strenghten the infos i got in your course, and i wanna do that before i'll try somethin completely new (well i'm looking forward to the vilppu book, because it seemed to be really interesting :) )

so i'm just collecting ideas, and i will start with the color illus soon. and i should find a process of doing my sketches in a cool way either...so many things to do :)

What do you think? does that sound reasonable?

Rebeccak
12-05-2005, 06:17 PM
Erich,

LOL, :) any way you want to approach things is fine with me ~ I'm just throwing out ideas and suggestions. :) I think what you propose sounds good, as of course it should since you know best what you need. :) I think it's definitely smart to capitalize on what you've studied in the Workshop, and to build on it through further study of books. You are quite good at being self~directed, so just tell me to butt out if I get in the way. ;)

Looking forward to seeing your new work! :)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
12-05-2005, 09:45 PM
@Rebecca

thx for your input, can never hear enough ideas or suggestions...knowledge is power :)

i hope you don't mind that i'm posting all this stuff in my 'anatomy thread'.

heres next, and the fast shading looks much better...it's like always just practice :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/counselor.jpg

Rebeccak
12-05-2005, 11:35 PM
thx for your input, can never hear enough ideas or suggestions...knowledge is power

i hope you don't mind that i'm posting all this stuff in my 'anatomy thread'.

heres next, and the fast shading looks much better...it's like always just practice
No prob! You know I'm an advice fiend. :D

Of course I don't "mind"! Ha, what else is the thread for but for your drawings/paintings? :)

I agree, the shading IS much better...and it looks like a lot more thought went into this one, too. Makes me think of really beautiful Brother's Grimm fairy tales, with which I'm sure you're well familiar. I think you would do a terrific job illustrating a book with this style! :)

Cheers,

~Rk

RO
12-06-2005, 12:05 AM
Sup I am looking forward to your drawings. The ones you have done so far that are fantasy based are really cool. Keep at it :)

ErichSchreiner
12-06-2005, 11:20 AM
@Rebecca
thx. Brothers Grimm fairy tales, hm? would be cooool :)

@Desp#2/Rog
thx. as you might have recognized these are no 100% worked out goodies, but i think they will work as concepts :)

Btw if there's someone around who thinks they won't work as concepts please let me know, cause i just assumed they might work.


funny things happen sometimes...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/queenshady.jpg

Rebeccak
12-06-2005, 11:26 AM
Brothers Grimm fairy tales, hm? would be cooool :)
I think so! :)

Cheers, :)

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-06-2005, 06:44 PM
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warrior05.jpg

another warrior type

RO
12-06-2005, 10:33 PM
From my experiance concept work has several stages.


(Sketch) Quick line work that represents the character or environment quickly without going into harsh details. It can involve some shadowing but usually it is just quick and gesture like.
(Draft) If approve by your lead artist in your company you go on with a draft of a what kind of details you will have and it is more detail oriented. If the Lead artist does not like your draft you go back and forth from sketch to draft. The key to the sketch and draft is to get a clear idea put down fast on a piece of paper or computer canvas.
(Final draft) Once you have it clear what the design will be you will make a final render which puts all the ideas together in a fine drawing. Really just a fully rendered piece. Depending on the need you will need the basic front, back, and side profiles. These profiles are also made in the sketch draft process.

Some people in the industry take the design process further and add a style sheet that puts information about the design on the side. Like if it is character he/she puts the history on the final draft in PS or illustrator to make a complete piece of information.

I would say these are almost in the middle of sketch and draft.

I sometimes like sketches and drafts more than final pieces. Plus future employers love to see that you worked through concepts to reach your final work. This shows time spent and thought process.


Depending on experience you can go from 50 or more sketches and drafts in till you hit the design that your lead will like. At the end it is all about speed when working in any design industry.

ErichSchreiner
12-07-2005, 12:30 PM
woha, thx for all the infos and your insight. that's really helpfull :) . i'm glad that you see my sketches between sketches and draft, because i do the same: they should be sketchy :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/snowsuit.jpg

Rebeccak
12-07-2005, 02:48 PM
Desp#2/Rog,

GREAT insight, thanks!! :thumbsup:

Eric,

I'm curious as to the title, "Godless Beauty"? :)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-07-2005, 05:03 PM
@Rebecca
that's just an old URL out of my death-metal-band days, where i dump all my stuff. perhaps i'll do a painting with this title sometimes :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/assimilator.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-07-2005, 09:48 PM
another killer demonhttp://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/suckerdemon.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-09-2005, 08:20 AM
next tries: knight and spare part soldier



http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/knight01.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/sparepartsoldier.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-09-2005, 12:10 PM
tried a pirate here


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/pirate01.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-13-2005, 03:34 PM
hi there. i finally got the Vilppu drawing manual, and i got some questions about it. I started some PMs with Rebecca, who thought it might be interesting for you all to follow that discussion (perhaps there are some of you who worked with the book already?).

So here's my question for Rebecca again:

Originally Posted by El Chief
Well, ok. just read it quickly to get an overview. Sounds all very reasonable.

So what do you mean, should i start from the very beginning with the boxes and circles (and if yes, how many of'em should i do?), or should i concentrate on the gestures, cause i'm no bloody beginner in drawing (on the other hand, i didn't do such things before, apart from tons of matchstick-figures, so i might be bloody) ?

Vilppu wrote that the manual was written to accompagny a 12 week course. Do you think, i could do some parts of it as a sort of quick-course ? (i mean, drawing boxes a week long can be disturbing ? although i see the importance of basics...)

Rebeccak
12-13-2005, 03:42 PM
Erich,

Thanks. ;)

First, I think that the exercises Vilppu prescribes re: basic drawing circles / boxes is central and fundamental to his teaching methodology ~ so I would not skip over it or take it lightly. In fact, I think it is exactly what you need in order to bring more movement and life to your concept sketches ~ re: eventually drawing opposing curves / getting rhythm into the poses.

I would definitely follow Vilppu's manual as if you were a beginner. You are of course very advanced with respect to the more finished drawings, but need to loosen up quite a bit on the concept sketches / fast pencil sketches ~ I would recommend taking the lessons and principles that you learn as you follow his manual and applying it to the 15 Minute Sketchathon thread on a daily or weekly basis. I really think this will start to make a big difference in / have a great impact on how you draw.

Feel free to post in both the 15 MS thread and here in your own Anatomy Thread.

Let me know what you think. ;)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-13-2005, 03:49 PM
ok, understood. now stays the question about the amount of work per lesson. He wrotes, that he let his students do a lesson 6 hours per day. assuming that he might have two days max. for the course in a week, that means 12 hours per week, for me that might be 2 hours a day. Unfortunately he didn't write about that more.

Do you think that makes sense?

Rebeccak
12-13-2005, 03:58 PM
Erich,

I think that makes sense, but really it's up to you to determine how much time you have available and how much time you think it is necessary to spend doing the exercises. ;) I think a couple of hours sounds reasonable, as that means you will be getting regular practice, which is really the point. :)

Hope that helps. :)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-13-2005, 05:29 PM
so here we go...

the first two are from vilppus book, the next two from the refs in the reference-thread. gesture drawings, all about 15 to 30 seconds

i have absolutely no idea if these are in the right direction :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t14.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t15.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t16.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t17.jpg

Rebeccak
12-13-2005, 05:40 PM
Erich,

I can't take a close or extended look at these atm, but from a quick look, these, particularly the first two sets, look good. I would say to not skip the boxes / spheres exercises though, as that is what I am seeing missing straight away from these drawings ~ the boxy / spherical structure that gives maximum life and believability to 2~dimensional form.

I would say to work on those initial exercises, though they seem like baby steps, as I think they are vital as a construction tool in Vilppu's system.

Cheers, :)

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
12-13-2005, 05:54 PM
as that is what I am seeing missing straight away from these drawings ~ the boxy / spherical structure
well, yes, because in vilppus first lesson he just tries to catch the action with a few lines, therefore i didn't try to bring in the boxes or spheres (i guess this would be difficult in 15 seconds :) )

Rebeccak
12-13-2005, 06:09 PM
Erich,

LOL, I don't have the Vilppu Manual here with me at work ;) so my apologies. Carry on! :D

Cheers, ;)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-13-2005, 06:38 PM
no prob, no prob :)


i invented the following gestures completely, to get a feel for the look of vilppus gestures. i think they look better than the first tries... (hope so :) )

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t18.jpg
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t19.jpg

Rebeccak
12-13-2005, 07:03 PM
Erich,

Not too bad, not too bad. I think an exercise that might be worthwhile in terms of practice is to take a few large pages or two of large format paper, preferably cheap newsprint like the kind shown here (http://www.staples.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/StaplesProductDisplay?zipCode=90210&jspStoreDir=Staples&catalogId=10051&errorUrl=zipcode&krypto=mfxq1nTSMWh0shUQOLdqejr6zGQ2Y8NL&ts=1134503047422&langId=-1&partNumber=HUNR330157&storeId=10001&ddkey=StaplesZipCodeAdd) and draw, with your medium of choice (preferably pencil, ballpoint pen, or charcoal pencil) just a series of curved organic lines, such as might describe the outlines of an old, gnarled tree. Don't attempt to create anything recognizable ~ and draw using large arcs, and sweeping gestures with your shoulder, arm, wrist, and hand.

I'll try to post an example later. If I forget, just remind me. ;)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-14-2005, 10:37 AM
thx rebecca. will try that.

still struggling to find something that fits me

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/t20.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-14-2005, 01:09 PM
construction site


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr01.jpg

Rebeccak
12-14-2005, 02:40 PM
Erich,

It takes a lot of practice to get beyond seeing things in a certain way ~ and it's not a surprise that someone with your sense of precision and perfection in his work is having a hard time making the leap to a more expressive form of drawing. The key is to do a LOT of short pose drawings ~ 2~5 minutes ~ every day. Let's say you did 20 2 minute drawings a day ~ that's about 40 minutes, so it would mean about an hour spent drawing a day. These are warm~ups, but the best kind of warm~ups I think.

Try using a medium which is unfamiliar or uncomfortable to you. This will help, I think, to break past that inner censor which tells you to do everything perfectly. Ironically, in drawing the figure, trying to get things perfect from the outset is a hindrance. Conceptually, this is easy to understand, but physically, it takes practice.

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-14-2005, 03:51 PM
i agree, it will be really hard to overcome that point...let's see how long it takes :)
thx

these are no gesture drawings. they're developed a little further to deal with basic forms and perspective.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr02.jpg
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr03.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-17-2005, 11:12 AM
some things i did the last few days...the poses are all invented, had no ref.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/test04.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr04.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr05.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr06.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-18-2005, 09:50 AM
another bunch of invented poses...could be more loose, but i'm working on it :)


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr07.jpg

erilaz
12-18-2005, 11:19 AM
Absolutely brilliant chief!:D

I especially like the woman with the gun and bent leg. You've captured a gorgeous alluring pose there.

ErichSchreiner
12-18-2005, 01:29 PM
thx Martin. these are just exercises to get a better feel for placing the figures in space. :)

next...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr08.jpg

Rebeccak
12-18-2005, 02:25 PM
Erich,

I think that last set does look a bit looser! One exercise you might consider trying is to mimic each of the poses you have drawn in that last set in another set of 2 minute drawings, where you just use loose lines, and not boxes / cylinders.

Just a suggestion ~ I think it might help you to capture the essence / flow of the subject.

Good to see your posts! :)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-19-2005, 11:58 AM
@Rebecca

thx, have to try that. i believe, that these constructs will become more loose automatically with the amount of practice, because right know i have to think a lot about perspective etc, and with time, this thinking should decrease a lot :) (but they're no gesture drawings anyway, i think...)

Rebeccak
12-19-2005, 01:10 PM
Erich,

Yep, I see what you mean. :) One exercise that I found useful in school was to take Master Drawings, and trace on top of them (either digitally or traditionally) the box / cylinder simplified constructs such as you are using here. I think it's always a good idea to mix up studies from imagination with studies from the Masters. I think often there is premature emphasis placed on drawing from the imagination ~ while I think ultimately it is the goal, it's impossible to draw what you do not know ~ so I think it is best to do as many studies from the masters as possible. :)

Just a thought. ;)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
12-19-2005, 03:45 PM
@Rebecca
this sounds like a good idea. i'll definetly have to try that. i'm feeling just a bit better doing such constructs right now, than trying loose lines...don't know why.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr09.jpg

Rebeccak
12-19-2005, 03:57 PM
No worries! :) Whatever you feel is best sounds great! :)

Cheers,

~Rebecca

ErichSchreiner
12-20-2005, 10:35 AM
here's another one...think i'll try one more detailed now with this construction thing as basis.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/constr11.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-21-2005, 06:23 PM
this guy doesn't look too bad, i think...no ref

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord.jpg

Rebeccak
12-21-2005, 06:27 PM
Hey, Erich, :)

I like the torso and legs a lot! Do you think that he might need more of a waist, though? Just a thought. :)

Cheers,

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-21-2005, 07:18 PM
@Rebecca

thx, see what you mean. the belt hides the wasteline, bad position. i worked a little bit more in the groin area, but ok. there are some areas that could be better, but i'm glad that this guy looks more dynamic and has more life than the other tries :)

Rebeccak
12-21-2005, 07:32 PM
Erich,

With drawing, yeah, it's really hard to correct anything. But any of your drawings are GREAT bases for digital paintings, where you can obviously tweak ad infinitum. :) I may be wrong here, but I think you're consciously working traditionally to refine your perceptions ~ which I think is great, given that you know how to paint digitally as well. I rather wish that more people would start out traditionally as you are, precisely because you don't have Ctrl + Z, and it forces you to think about things more. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it may be a longer and tougher route to do things traditionally at first as you are, but that there is likely to be a bigger payoff at the end when you start to work on your pieces digitally.

Just my two cents (I'm basically agreeing with your approach). :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-22-2005, 02:38 PM
@Rebecca
yes i agree with your point of view. pencil is a different medium, but one that traines my skills best, i think. i don't want to draw on the wacom, because i think my hand-eye-coordination is better with pencil on paper...and i enjoy the time working not in front of the monitor :)

next, no ref

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warrior07.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warrior06.jpg

Rebeccak
12-22-2005, 02:43 PM
Erich,

Nice! :) It seems your drawings are getting more confident and substantive. :)

If I may make one recommendation, it would be to throw into the mix of original / from imagination character designs the occasional pencil Master Copy or two. I think it's great you're really working your imagination, but I think doing an occasional Master Copy will help you to reach your goals much faster.

Only a suggestion. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
12-22-2005, 02:49 PM
By the way, my friend Hong Ly has updated his site, and it's awesome:

You should definitely check it out:

http://www.characterdesigns.com/

Cheers, :)

~Rk

ErichSchreiner
12-22-2005, 05:14 PM
yeah, great stuff on his page. do you think i shall make some master studies for special problem areas, or do you think it would be generally good?

I have the "Anatomy Lessons from the great masters", so i could work on every part of the body :)

Rebeccak
12-22-2005, 05:42 PM
yeah, great stuff on his page. do you think i shall make some master studies for special problem areas, or do you think it would be generally good?
Generally good. :)

I have the "Anatomy Lessons from the great masters", so i could work on every part of the body :)
That would be sweet! :) I have done tons of copies from that book. It is a really useful resource. The other good resource which I highly recommend is the Master Draughtsman Series (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/002-4267204-3382434?url=index%3Dblended&field-keywords=%22master+draughtsman+series%22&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go) of paperback books ~ these are REALLY cheap, slim volumes containing just the drawings of Master Artists, and they are great because they are printed on heavy paper, and are light, which makes them easy to copy from, as A.) they are not so expensive that you will worry about ruining them or breaking the spine and B.) they are not heavy, and you can hold them in one hand while drawing in the other (if you want).

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-23-2005, 08:16 AM
here we go...first one:


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC01.jpg

ErichSchreiner
12-23-2005, 04:13 PM
and another one...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC02.jpg

Rebeccak
12-24-2005, 12:50 AM
Erich,

Fantastic to see these! I think your analyzing of these drawings and others will tremendously help you to improve your own work.

When going after detail, don't forget the basics. For example:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Anatomy%20Thread%20of%20El%20Chief/Erich_1_giffer.gif

It's often best to find the major axes first and to figure out how the various aspects of the body fall off of these axes. Note the big compression on the model's right's side, and the stretch on his left. There are very clear dynamics which are setting up the tension and balance in this pose. The challenge is to recognize and represent them SIMPLY at first, and then to build more detail which supports the larger idea as you go. It's not a matter of finding the large idea first, and then forgetting about it as you do details ~ rather, it's about having every small detail support the large idea, and not creating details that do not. Sort of like body sentences supporting a topic sentence in a paragraph. You want to support your thesis. The thesis of this pose is contrappasto / shifts of weight. Every detail should support that thesis.

Or, in short, the essence of the pose can be expressed in a small number of opposing curves which strongly demonstrate the action of the pose.

Hope this makes sense. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-28-2005, 01:52 PM
thx for the review, Rebecca. will change that soon.

While i'm copying a drawing, i'm not sure that i think about what i'm doing like i should, so i'm more concerned that i match the reference than thinking about anatomy (i think Alex mentionned that problem during the workshop). Do you think it trains my skills in a more subsconcious way, or that i'll have to change the way i'm copying the drawings?

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC03.jpg

Rebeccak
12-28-2005, 02:05 PM
Erich,

That's a cool question, and one I've given some thought to regarding my own work. Frankly, half the time I don't think I understand Anatomy at all ~ I would never call myself an Anatomist, I'm a figurative artist. I know Anatomy inasmuch as it pertains to drawing and painting the human form. When I draw, I am thinking subconsciously about the Anatomy, but more consciously about how forms, lines, shapes, and tones interact to create believable and, to my mind, interesting form. I don't think about tendons and their names, I don't think about bones and their positions, except at a subconscious level. The reason I wanted you guys to focus so heavily on the admittedly sometimes boring Anatomical Plates in the Workshop was to get that knowledge engrained in your subconscious so that you guys could eventually learn to DRAW.

The interplay of conscious and subconscious thinking about drawing is fascinating, and you can alternately manipulate it, and let it manipulate you.

I hope this makes some kind of sense. I am sure it is different for every person ~ that is just how it is for me. And it changes, lots of times, depending on the day and my mood. To me, drawing is just like thought, and as such, just as liquid and dynamic.

Does that sound strange?

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
12-28-2005, 03:16 PM
By the way, I think that this master copy has a nicer, and more natural flow than the previous one (which is a much more difficult pose and drawing to copy). I think you might want to try to offset the curves in the leg a little more ~ when you make curves perfectly or closely opposite one another, like parentheses
( ) you will tend to create a vase form inadvertently.

Just a little trick to watch out for. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-29-2005, 11:05 AM
@Rebecca
little bit strange perhaps, but ok, my thoughts are equally strange i think, so who cares :)

It's cool that it works out differently for everybody, and because of this there are many ways to learn...

i messed up his left arm a bit, but the rest is ok.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC04.jpg

Rebeccak
12-29-2005, 11:10 AM
@Rebecca
little bit strange perhaps, but ok, my thoughts are equally strange i think, so who cares :)
LMAO! :scream:

Ah, this is definitely your best copy to date. It looks like you are relaxing with your drawing of the forms, and allowing the forms to breathe and reach their full extension, even if it's exaggerated (a good thing).

Looking forward to more of these. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
12-30-2005, 01:36 PM
thx Rebecca

next

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC05.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC06.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-01-2006, 03:10 PM
i'm convinced now, that there will be some progress in my free stuff after doing about 30 to 40 master copies. i guess it's the same process as with my face studies...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC07.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC08.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC09.jpg

Rebeccak
01-01-2006, 08:58 PM
Erich,

Yep, exactly ~ back in school, we had to do somewhere around 250 master copies in a trimester ~ 14 weeks. For one class. Doing a lot of Master Copies, as you are doing here, is, imo, one of the best ways to improve one's figure drawing quickly. Great stuff! :) You're definitely on the right track!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-02-2006, 08:08 AM
250...not bad :) guess i have to increase my output :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC10.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC11.jpg

Ego
01-02-2006, 05:09 PM
Great master copies Chief. Becca says I should drop in here and pay you a visit. Now I see why.
Oh she says hello too :D

ErichSchreiner
01-02-2006, 07:26 PM
hi queensoul and thx a lot, hope they are not too bad :)

raised my output today (as announced). wonder how long i can stand this every day before going nuts :)


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC12.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC13.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC14.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC15.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC16.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC17.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC18.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC19.jpg

Rebeccak
01-02-2006, 11:49 PM
Wow, Erich, now you are impressing me as a true Art Center type of student ~ highly driven and motivated, you're definitely doing a great job! Keep up the fantastic work, I think these are hugely helping you! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-04-2006, 07:35 AM
thx Rebecca :) . Don't know if i'm able to do the 250 but i'll try :)

yesterdays output:

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC20.jpg
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC21.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC22.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC23.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC24.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC25.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC26.jpg

erilaz
01-04-2006, 07:45 AM
Damn Erich, the improvement is amazing! great shading and poses!

What are you using mainly for the shading?

ErichSchreiner
01-04-2006, 07:58 AM
thx Martin :) .

i use a pencil with a very fine mine (graphite; don't know the exact name in english) with a 0,5 mm tip. it's very practical, cause you never have to sharpen that thing, just buy new mines and feed the little monster :) .

And i use a paper blender to soften the edges and make (more or less) smoth gradations.
Apart from that i use a kneaded eraser, an eraser pencil, and i bought an electric eraser some days ago for the hard eraser work.

erilaz
01-04-2006, 08:00 AM
thx Martin :) .

i use a pencil with a very fine mine (graphite; don't know the exact name in english) with a 0,5 mm tip. it's very practical, cause you never have to sharpen that thing, just buy new mines and feed the little monster :) .

And i use a paper blender to soften the edges and make (more or less) smoth gradations.

Ah! I use the same thing! I love it! What hardness? Is it a H level or a B?

ErichSchreiner
01-04-2006, 08:04 AM
it's 2B.

i tested much in the last few months: graphite mines (big ones), pencils, pencils with exchangeable 2mm mines, and the 0,5 mm pencil, and i decided to stay with the small one, it's really a great tool.

erilaz
01-04-2006, 08:06 AM
it's 2B.

i tested much in the last few months: graphite mines (big ones), pencils, pencils with exchangeable 2mm mines, and the 0,5 mm pencil, and i decided to stay with the small one, it's really a great tool.

Agreed! I'm in love with my 2B mechanical pencil. Such great control!:love:

ErichSchreiner
01-04-2006, 08:11 AM
yeah, love it too. let's see what it has for me today. Will start with my work now and post the outpout in about ten hours.
see ya :)

Rebeccak
01-04-2006, 10:44 AM
Great stuff, Erich. :) I think you're on fire! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-04-2006, 05:45 PM
I think you're on fire! :thumbsup:


hopefully there will be no burn out :)

thx rebecca

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC27.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC28.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC29.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC30.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC31.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC32.jpg

Rebeccak
01-04-2006, 05:57 PM
LOL, I can't keep up with your posts. :D

How many does this make so far? :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-04-2006, 06:02 PM
39 i think... :)

Rebeccak
01-04-2006, 06:19 PM
LOL. Great work! :)

Mu
01-04-2006, 08:40 PM
Erich,

I don't mean to belittle your earlier work (in fact I regurlary visited your thread, so...)

...but these studies look like a different person drew them! It's amazing.

I am so anxious now what your own compositions will look like with your new expression.

Also, it makes me feel bad, about me sitting there and fumbling away at my single painting for the OFDW for two days while you churn out these amazing master copies. :eek:

I need to get more productive... ah... a goal I set myself on so many levels for this year...

so thanks for the inspiration!

ErichSchreiner
01-05-2006, 04:59 PM
@Mr Mu

thx a lot. i think i needed some time to get used to my pencil, copying drawings etc, now the process is much more loose than in the beginning, and the main bunch of the drawings looks equal (shading-wise), so perhaps we are all witnesses of the birth of a style :)

Also, it makes me feel bad, about me sitting there and fumbling away at my single painting for the OFDW for two days while you churn out these amazing master copies
it's really all about practicing. i always believed and now am convinced that there are no short-cuts. you just have to do a certain amount of drawings to become faster and better. So take your pencil and do something! :)

@Rebecca
thx

made ten today (some look very rough, but some master drawings do look like that...don't think i'm lazy :) )

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC33.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC34.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC35.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC36.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC37.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC38.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-05-2006, 05:00 PM
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC39.jpg


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC40.jpg

............................................

Rebeccak
01-05-2006, 05:18 PM
Ha, yeah, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of Erich is 'lazy' :scream: ~ great stuff! Definitely want to take a closer look later on. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

rblitz7
01-05-2006, 08:50 PM
Wow! great copies man!:thumbsup: Are you just using a regular pencil or what?

MichaelZHsee
01-06-2006, 03:15 AM
very nice muscles study all around the thread~good stuff:)

ErichSchreiner
01-06-2006, 06:53 PM
@rblitz7

thx. i use a 0,5 mm mechanical pencil, kneaded eraser and paper blender

@sh@ke

thx



next load...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC41.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC42.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC43.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC44.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC45.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC46.jpg

rblitz7
01-07-2006, 03:53 AM
Wow! your on fire!!:thumbsup: The first one in this set is great. It seems like you really know the figure so it would be nice to see if you take the shading to the extreme.

ErichSchreiner
01-07-2006, 05:17 PM
@rblitz7

thx. unfortunately i have no time at the moment to make really smooth shaded drawings.

next load...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC47.jpg
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC48.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC49.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC50.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC51.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC52.jpg

Rebeccak
01-07-2006, 08:33 PM
Erich,

You're doing a terrific job. :) The one thing I would say would be to slow down on these a bit. Even if you don't smooth shade these, which I think is unnecessary in any case, I would recommend taking more time on them ~ go for quality over quanity. Of course, quality and quantity is the best. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-07-2006, 09:38 PM
thx Rebecca. i planned to do about 100 in a row (i will finish these next week), then perhaps 1 per day, cause i don't have the time to practice them for three months (unfortunately). there are some contests these year, and i need a showable portfolio (better sooner than later) :) .

i hope that these drawings will affect my free stuff positively :)

Rebeccak
01-07-2006, 09:41 PM
Erich,

No prob, cool ~ sounds like you definitely have a good plan! :) Will you be posting anything of your contest work here? Even if it's only the finals, and not WIP, that would be cool to see. :)

I think it's inevitable that your drawings will improve as a result of doing these studies. Master Copies are things to which you should return periodically in your career ~ no one can really outdo them, so you're constantly testing yourself against the best. :)

Good luck with the competitions and the portfolio ~ hope to see your progress here!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-08-2006, 07:13 AM
@Rebecca
sure i will post perhaps the sketches and the finals...if the sketch is bad, the final will follow, so that's the important point. :)

I think it's inevitable that your drawings will improve as a result of doing these studies. Master Copies are things to which you should return periodically in your career ~ no one can really outdo them, so you're constantly testing yourself against the best

i recognized several lines and shapes that are repeated continously through the drawings, and i think that's already worth it. And i never thought that i'll have to do a bunch of them and that's it forever. i'm nearly done with the anatomy lessons from the great masters, but i ordered some out of the draughtmans-series.

just one more question: do you think it's possible to do figures out of your head that look more or less realistic (no comic look) without the help of a model.
I made now nearly 70 copies and some patterns appear equal on the models, but just in a kinda rough way, that means, when you look closer, it looks slightly different on each of them. so if i build my archetype (what a figure basically should look like) in my head, and only would work from this, i'm going to repeat myself again and again. diversification would just appear through happy accidents (perhaps).
Don't know if that makes sense :)

btw i don't want to achieve a 100% photorealistic look, it should not look like comic-style, stylization is ok, but more in a realistic way (perhaps like Luis Royo does).

When i'm done with the drawings, i'm going to color some of them, because i bought the puddnhead DVDs and need to do some tests before i'll start a 'big' painting.

default-rol
01-08-2006, 10:01 AM
just one more question: do you think it's possible to do figures out of your head that look more or less realistic (no comic look) without the help of a model.


Hey Erich :scream:

I haven't been on this thread for a few weeks due to MA work at University, but I must say I am stunned by your output and dedication to the task you have undertaken. Well done!! :thumbsup:

With regards to the question you asked in the quote - I know that artists/draughtsmen like Andrew Loomis, (I'm pretty sure Burne Hogarth,) and infact my current life drawing teacher at University all did/do it.

My current lecturer told me that he works out his pose first in his head, forms it on paper and finally gets a model in to sit in the pose to make sure he didn't miss anything. I'm sure that the last part is an optional extra. :D

Basically he told me that this made the most sense from a financial point of view, as if you know how people work then all you need them for is to capture the fine details. And paying high prices for a model to sit there while you do a rough in and refinement that you could do on your own makes no sense.

My 2 pences worth there

Keep going, I'm inspired.

MIKE :)

Miyagu
01-08-2006, 12:59 PM
hi erich,

just wanted to say that your work is great!

thank you for the inspiration :) keep it up!

GonzaloGolpe
01-08-2006, 01:07 PM
Good works Erich, IŽll watch to your progress:thumbsup:

Rebeccak
01-08-2006, 01:32 PM
i recognized several lines and shapes that are repeated continously through the drawings, and i think that's already worth it. And i never thought that i'll have to do a bunch of them and that's it forever. i'm nearly done with the anatomy lessons from the great masters, but i ordered some out of the draughtmans-series.
Sweet! Yep, that's the beauty of copying the work of people who were already at the top of their game. I think too often, artists try to 'go it alone' and wind up floundering about, not really knowing what they are doing and why ~ they hear the endlessly repeated phrase 'drawing from life is the best' when they don't realize that drawing from master copies is equally good, if not better sometimes ~ in fact, in old style atelier systems, students were never allowed in front of a live model until they had completed copies of plaster casts, so they would know what the hell to look for in a live model. ;)

just one more question: do you think it's possible to do figures out of your head that look more or less realistic (no comic look) without the help of a model.
I made now nearly 70 copies and some patterns appear equal on the models, but just in a kinda rough way, that means, when you look closer, it looks slightly different on each of them. so if i build my archetype (what a figure basically should look like) in my head, and only would work from this, i'm going to repeat myself again and again. diversification would just appear through happy accidents (perhaps).
Don't know if that makes sense :)
You'll get better at this the more life drawing and master copies you do. The main thing to remember here is that there are no exclusive rules ~ if you get stuck in a spot and need to look at reference whilst trying to come up with a pose from imagination, why the heck not look at reference? I think it's perfectly valid to do so ~ it's like taking a test, and you will quickly discover the things you don't know. When you find those trouble areas, do more master copies / life drawings / drawing from reference, and eventually you will fill in the blind spots. But drawing from imagination is not something one does well having only done a few copies / life drawings / then they move on. The goal is to mix everything up, and keep things in a steady continuum. Which, fortunately one can do more cheaply these days thanks to the myriad resources of the internet. :)

btw i don't want to achieve a 100% photorealistic look, it should not look like comic-style, stylization is ok, but more in a realistic way (perhaps like Luis Royo does).
Yeah, I won't criticize someone's style, unless it looks as though that particular person only has style, and no substance. You are working on the substance first, which is how I wish most artists would approach art ~ but it's rare, most aim straight for style, which is backwards. ;)

When i'm done with the drawings, i'm going to color some of them, because i bought the puddnhead DVDs and need to do some tests before i'll start a 'big' painting.
Great! I look forward to seeing those pieces here. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-09-2006, 08:15 PM
@Mike
thx a lot. i really liked the creature you designed in your thread...have to check in from time to time, could miss something :)

foster, vallejo, bell, Donato Giancola (there are surely more, but i know only them) work the same way. guess the human body is so complex and complicated, that you have to work from a model to get all the details.

but i have to admit that royos stylized girls are (for me) much much cooler than a photorealistic painted model.

@Dunkelgold
thank you very much for your motivating words :)

@Gonzalo
thx, like your drawings too :)

@Rebecca
thx for your thoughts (all agreed :) ) and the time spent thinking about them. hope to have enough substance now to start serious artworks.

couldn't do anything yesterday, so i made some rest. i feel my motivation is decreasing, so i hope to get to my 100 and the slow down a bit :) actual count: 74

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC53.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC54.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC55.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC56.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC57.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-09-2006, 08:16 PM
...............................................................

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC58.jpg

Rebeccak
01-10-2006, 12:10 AM
Erich,

You're welcome! It's great to see your continued motivation ~ that's an inspiration for all. :)

It seems that the first 3 drawings and the last drawing are some of your best copies so far ~ it really seems you are concentrating harder here, and really seeing more in~depth in terms of the figure.

As you're seeing, the more you do of these, the more you will discover in the figure ~ it's kind of cool that way, that it's sort of an unending process of learning and coming back to what you thought you knew with new information.

Great to see these, looking forward to seeing the final push! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-10-2006, 06:15 PM
@Rebecca

thx.

It seems that the first 3 drawings and the last drawing are some of your best copies so far ~ it really seems you are concentrating harder here, and really seeing more in~depth in terms of the figure.

i had a different mine in my pencil with these. it's a 2B too, but acts different than the mine from the other company...which doesn't mean that i'm not concentrating :)

i have the problem now, that i'm running out of good drawing references (i ordered some books as mentionned above, but i again have to import them...). lucky me i have a book about Michelangelo, so tomorrow there will be a lot of him.

btw i messed up the kneeling man of Rubens, he's too slim...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC59.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC60.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC61.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC62.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC63.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC64.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC65.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC66.jpg

Amerasu
01-11-2006, 12:46 AM
Wow! This is a totally inspiring and motivating thread! You're so productive and I can really see an improvement from the beginning of the thread to now. And your initial work was nice and solid anyway. All of the master copies are really serving you well.

I like your characters / concept art too. You have so much of it!

Fantastic work and I look forward to watching your thread in the future :)

ErichSchreiner
01-11-2006, 07:48 PM
@Amerasu
thx a lot. your words are really motivating, and i'll do my best to keep the work up.

it's really getting hard to find good drawings that i didn't copy yet (the book didn't turn out as good as i thought). The last two in this series look very strange, but their refs looked strange as well :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC67.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC68.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC69.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC70.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC71.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-11-2006, 07:50 PM
.......................................................

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC72.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC73.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC74.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC75.jpg

Rebeccak
01-12-2006, 08:30 AM
Erich,

Nice update. :) What was it that you didn't like about the book? Just curious.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-12-2006, 12:00 PM
thx Rebecca.

most of the drawings are to small, so you really can't copy them well...seems that i have to wait for the amazon books, to get new material :)

i also ordered one about Rembrandt: The Painter at work. was not cheap, but i read that the author talks a lot about Rembrandt's technique.

done...i did 100 master copies in about two weeks now. i think that's a good basis to move on. i'll do now one every day or every two days, to slowly move up to 250... :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC76.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC77.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC78.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC79.jpg

Slux
01-12-2006, 06:49 PM
Hi
Rebbeca have just pointed me to your thread :)
heh really nice drawings, especially these master studies looks mighty fine
hmm I will have to do some too
Anyway keep going I will have to check you thread from time to time heh :D

-Slux

erilaz
01-13-2006, 12:31 AM
You're a machine Chief.:) Your shading is getting better all the time!

ErichSchreiner
01-13-2006, 04:02 PM
@Slux

thx

@Martin

thx a lot. the two weeks were really very strenuos, but who cares :)

first color exercises. i'm trying to assimilate some puddnhead techniques and mix them up with my own way of doing things. first one was messed up, second and third are not too bad, i think

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/CEX01.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/CEX02.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/CEX03.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-13-2006, 07:30 PM
another try...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/CEX04.jpg

Rebeccak
01-13-2006, 07:43 PM
These are looking mighty good, Erich! The next thing you might considering tackling is doing copies (drawings / paintings) of figurative sculpture. :thumbsup: These would be more condusive to intensive shading copies, I would think. :)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-13-2006, 08:20 PM
@rebecca
thx :)

The next thing you might considering tackling is doing copies (drawings / paintings) of figurative sculpture

could you give an example please ?

Rebeccak
01-13-2006, 08:32 PM
Mmmmmmmmmmmichelangelo, baby!

Michelangelo (Paperback)
by Ludwig Goldscheider (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0714832960/sr=1-3/qid=1137187871/ref=pd_bbs_3/104-0657134-8203951?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-13-2006, 08:37 PM
still can't imagine what's in this book to be copied. color paintings of Michelangelo or b/W pictures or sculptures?

i thought it might be a good idea to try to color some of the drawings i already made, cause you clearly can see that there are some difficulties for me working with color :)

Rebeccak
01-13-2006, 09:01 PM
Erich,

LOL, no worries ~ I think it is a good idea to continue on with your color studies...just a suggestion for the future. ;)

The book contains drawings and sculptures ~ sculptures, mainly, really nice b/w images, many closeups, views, etc. of his greatest pieces. Have done many copies from this book ~ an excellent resource. :)

I like your idea of coloring your drawings, though ~ looking forward to more of those. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

SpiritDreamer
01-14-2006, 03:35 PM
Hi...Erich..
REALLY like your master copies ..:thumbsup:
Also like the way your experimenting with colors on, or with them.
I think the link below, might be of some help to you in your experiments.
Study the way he uses color on or in his figures,...each one is different,
and picks up the colors of it's surroundings.
Keep studying the masters, it's a great way, and the best way to learn..:)
Take Care
Glenn


Boris Vellejo (http://fantasy.bratsk.net/) :bounce:

Rebeccak
01-14-2006, 03:45 PM
Perfect link, Glenn! :applause: That gives me an idea for a Workshop...

ErichSchreiner
01-14-2006, 06:55 PM
thx Glenn. it's funny that you posted this link, cause i have Vallejos & Bells workshop book here around me all the time, for figuring out like they do it. unfortunately the text is not too precise (we paint the figures with the colors of the background etc.) but it's interesting anyway.
Seegmiller wrote, that he makes the highlights (hint of, very subtle) of his figures with the colors of the background.

so my actual understanding (hope it's right :) ) is the following: the background colors should be very subtle, they occur in the reflected light areas (shadow side and, light side shortly before the form turns to its outer rim) and around the highlights ( but i think that depends on the light source; strong sunlight will make it more yellowish etc)
hope that makes sense :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/CEX05.jpg

Rebeccak
01-14-2006, 07:29 PM
Erich,

Hey, these are really cool! It reminds me that I experimented a little with digitally painting my charcoal drawings, but never got very far with it. Let me try to find one, it should be interesting, as I haven't looked at my efforts in a while...this inspires me to try that again! :)

EDIT: Looks like I've deleted them, oh well. I may try some new ones.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Mu
01-14-2006, 10:06 PM
Erich,

these last arm studies are just beautiful! So truthful!

ErichSchreiner
01-15-2006, 06:03 PM
@Rebecca

thx.

Looks like I've deleted them, oh well. I may try some new ones

would be nice to see some :)

@Mr Mu
thx. hope they get better :)

something different. this could become something for my portfolio. it's still WIP and the design-process ain't over yet.
all non-ref to this point.

it's a warlord at work :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_02.jpg

Lyneran
01-15-2006, 09:53 PM
i love this thread more and more with every update you post el chief :) i'm learning a lot from you regarding both artistic anatomy and attitude towards studying it. :thumbsup: those arm studies are just beautiful btw, i hope you post more of those! and i'm looking forward to the finished version of your wip.

ErichSchreiner
01-16-2006, 04:31 PM
@Lynera

i really thank you for your kind words...never thought that somebody could learn something from what i do :)

and here it is, the first final version. i'll check it out tomorrow a last time, but for now, what do you think?

I have to admit that i like it. it's not top notch, but more than ok :)
no ref used...
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final.jpg


and the daily MasterCopy

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC80.jpg

Rebeccak
01-16-2006, 04:37 PM
Erich,

It's definitely a strong piece (though I'm not partial to the subject matter) ;) ~ the female figure I think could use the most work. Her left arm is strangely foreshortened, and her face is a bit too cartoony for the rest of the piece. You might try isolating each of the figures and working on them separately a bit ~ just a suggestion. :) His right arm seems a bit short to me, and I think that his shoulders could use a lot more mass ~ his head is too close to his chest, you might want to raise his head and shoulders a bit. Overall, I like the lighting scheme, though the folds in the skirt look a bit too uniform.

Looking good, hope to see an update if you have the time.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-16-2006, 05:16 PM
thx rebecca. tried to fix the arm and forgot to save it with a different name, so it's on the page before.
I'll check the face out later.

ErichSchreiner
01-17-2006, 08:30 AM
first updat...i think there will be a second



http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final01.jpg

erilaz
01-17-2006, 08:32 AM
Looking awesome chief! I would only say at this stage her face doesn't look quite right, but damn, it's some great work going in there!

ErichSchreiner
01-17-2006, 12:26 PM
thx Martin :)

update... i think i'll have to look over it again...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final02.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-17-2006, 05:16 PM
i was totally wrong calling it finished yesterday. so here's the actual version (i think i will search for some ref for the girls face)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final03.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-17-2006, 09:55 PM
ok, let's call this final. found no ref for the face, so i hope it's ok. let me know if there are still errors or wrong looking areas please :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final04.jpg

Mu
01-17-2006, 10:03 PM
Hi,

first of all:

for a piece from imagination in general and even compared to your earlier imaginative drawings this is awesome!

That said, I am still not happy with the face...(as if that counted, but you asked for it:D)

Maybe, what is disturbing me might be the same thing which is has been giving you a hard time drawing that face, namely the fact that it is not clear what her emotions are in that particular moment?

Is she just plain desperate?
furious?
turned on? (forgive me - I somehow had to ask this as there is a slight sexual nuance of dominance in this composition:D)
fearful?

I think you get what I mean. Maybe if you clarify her emotion the expression will be clearer and the face in general stronger.

Just my two cents...

still inspired by your drive, man!

erilaz
01-17-2006, 10:08 PM
I'm still loving EVERYTHING except the face. I think it's mainly the nose and lips. If you cover up the lower half of her head it looks fine. Hmm....

ErichSchreiner
01-18-2006, 09:48 AM
@Mr Mu

thx. i agree that the missing expression might be a problem. i will take more care of this in the next painting.

@Martin

thx. i couldn't find any ref.

how does it look now? tried to fix it. it's all done exept the face where i'm not sure of...and i designed a new signature, cause the old looked just not right.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final05.jpg

Mu
01-18-2006, 10:45 AM
Her cheeks look much better now!


I also like the new sig.

I am still unsure what she actually feels. But then again - there's other areas of interest about the female character, here, too.:D

Another thing: is that a kind of needle or dagger he is holding?

Or rather a key? If it was the latter, her expression would fit into this pretty good - anxious and nervous, between hope and despair, so-to-speak...

Lyneran
01-18-2006, 01:54 PM
great piece el chief! especially considering that you drew this from imagination :) the anatomical problems have been pointed out so i'll skip on that, i'll just say i can really see the improvement.

about the face, i'm not sure but maybe the problem with her expression is that her eyes seem sleepy to me (maybe that's what you wanted in which case ignore me). maybe if a little less of the pupil is covered, and the fold of muscle above her eye would be less stressed it might give her a slightly more alarmed or threatened look.

nice job on the lighting btw! :thumbsup:

Rebeccak
01-18-2006, 02:14 PM
Erich,

I think the piece is definitely improving, but I would still suggest looking at Reference for both figures. M.E.L. recently posted an Anatomy Thread with nice images of bodybuilders, which may be useful as reference for the male figure. For the female figure, you may want to look at Hong's site, www.characterdesigns.com.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-18-2006, 05:36 PM
@Mr Mu

thx for the idea with the key :) . now it doesn't look like girlie-dominated-by-evil-man...which was never intended btw

i re-worked the face again, biceps and chest of the lord.

@Lyneran
thx, changed her eyes a bit

@Rebecca
found some ref for the guy...
thx

update

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final06.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-19-2006, 01:27 PM
call it finished now...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/warlord01_final08.jpg

erilaz
01-19-2006, 10:39 PM
Masterful improvement on the face in that one Chief! Brilliant rework!:)

Rebeccak
01-19-2006, 11:52 PM
Definite improvements, Erich. Do you want me to make any suggestions via a paintover? I won't unless you give me the go~ahead. ;)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-20-2006, 06:08 AM
thx Martin

@Rebecca
no problem, just go ahead :)

ErichSchreiner
01-22-2006, 03:22 PM
so her is the next piece. it's still WIP, just before the fine-tuning-phase. need to take some photos of my hands, and need to look up some other refs, just to make sure.
some things still bother me, so i'll change them soon.

i was inspired by the movie King Arthur, and the following screen capture:

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/onpatrolref.jpg

and here is my version...hope you like it :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/onPatrol01.jpg

Rebeccak
01-22-2006, 03:41 PM
Erich,

I like this piece quite a lot! More so than the last, I must say. :D Have you seen sh@ke's thread, and his horse? I think you might quite like it...

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=307385&page=2&pp=15

I really like your subdued color pallette and the sense of atmosphere in this piece. The one thing I would say is that the horse's legs look a bit wooden ~ take a look at the horse Reference images in the Animals thread, this post:

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2532109&postcount=11

This contains lots of useful links to horse skeleton images etc. Slux also has some really nice drawings of horses in his thread.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-22-2006, 06:02 PM
@Rebecca
thx. i'll check out the refs tomorrow...what do you think about the bluish hue (sky), better or not?
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/onPatrol02.jpg

Mu
01-22-2006, 06:17 PM
Hey Erich,

nothing can promote doing master copies better than this piece which followed your intense phase you went through.

I am really impressed.

I like the fact that it only borders on fantasy topic-wise. I like the dull earthy color palette.

As concerns the sky: I did not feel the need to change anything about the sky as a viewer in the previous piece, so - while the blue hues don't disturb too much - I don't feel that this change contributes very much and I would therefore leave it like it was.

What I think you could do is push the depth information a bit. Maybe more contrast and sharpness about the horse armor and grass in the foreground?

Rebeccak
01-22-2006, 06:35 PM
Erich,

I agree with Mr. Mu's comments in terms of making the background a bit softer, and bringing focus to the figure. What also might be nice is a shaft of sunlight on the top of the banner ~ something golden~orange and dramatic might really set things off.

Here's just a quick touchup by really only adding a layer set to the Color Blending Mode and increasing the merged result's Saturation ~ let me know what you think:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Anatomy%20Thread%20of%20El%20Chief/Erich_Concept_3.gif

Of course this is only a suggestion, and even if you went in this direction, you'd want to sample the new colors and do some repainting, particularly around the horse's legs. Hope it helps.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
01-22-2006, 08:38 PM
oh wow erich that looks great! i especially like how elaborately dressed the horse is. imho both the blue and greyish sky work, i guess it's just down to what mood you want to convey. did i mention you totally amaze me? :D

ErichSchreiner
01-23-2006, 03:40 PM
@Mr Mu, Rebecca
thx a lot. i agree and will push the background back further in the next steps, i also will increase the saturation a bit. the picture with the overlay is ok i think, the more saturated version is too much for my taste :)

@lyneran
thx so much for your kind words :)

update

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/onPatrol04.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-23-2006, 07:49 PM
update...i really need a more loose way of painting...it's already starting to look too clean, isn't it?

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/centurion_final01.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-24-2006, 10:17 AM
update.......

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/centurion_final02.jpg

Mu
01-24-2006, 10:54 AM
Oh man, I am so glad you changed the horse's foot because I was just about to crit away at it:D


Now, much against my initial intention and to my utter joy, I can say:

great job with the horse! It has much more of a warhorse look simply by the fact that it does not seem glued to the ground, now!

There's another thing: I can decipher the structure of the mountain better than the newly introduced shape which obscures some parts of it at the left side.
But, as the mountain is supposed to be further away than that shape, it should be even more blurred/hard to read. Know what I mean? I think this would even deepen the distance in your painting, which, by the way, rocks the whole freaking building:buttrock:

Rebeccak
01-26-2006, 01:38 AM
Erich,

I like this latest update, and think that the horses' legs look much better.

I think the 'clean' look to which you are referring is due to the fact that most of your edges are the same ~ take a look at a traditional master painting, and notice all of the different kinds and types of edges which are present. As an example:

Titian's "The Flaying of Marsyas"

http://www.bexley.k12.oh.us/hslib/art/artists/Titian/The%20Flaying%20of%20Marsyas.jpeg
http://www.bexley.k12.oh.us/hslib/art/artists/Titian/The%20Flaying%20of%20Marsyas.jpeg

Titian was a painter known for the remarkable variety of brushstrokes and edges in his work...I think the best thing for digital artists to look at is not other digital art as much as at Traditional Drawing and Painting.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-26-2006, 09:48 AM
@Mr Mu
thx a lot, hope it's better now.

@Rebecca
i read that titians 'rough manner' was not very popular at his time, but may have influenced rembrandts late work.
another way of explaning rembrandts change of style is, that the 'rough manner' is more for experienced artists, who know what to show in detail and what to indicate.
i believe this too, because for me it's easier to render all the tiny details (which is wrong, wrong, wrong...) than to leave a piece rough.
another problem i have to solve is, that i don't know how much i have to work on a piece on screen, so that it will look ok in printed format.
so i made two versions of the last painting, that i sent to a photo-labor. guess i will have them back again tomorrow or on saturday.

let's call this final...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/centurion_final03.jpg

Rebeccak
01-26-2006, 12:01 PM
Erich,

That's really interesting ~ the one little bit that I remember about this particular piece, "The Flaying of Marsyas", is that it was painted late in Titian's life, and that it was almost meant as a self~portrait ~ where the artist is depicted as being 'flayed', or picked apart and criticized by the critics of his day. I think I saw this piece in the Louvre (a long time ago) or maybe I am just remembering a blurb from television at some point. :)

It's not so simple to duplicate traditional techniques digitally, I am definitely struggling with it myself ~ a part of me is not so inclined to totally duplicate the traditional look, because digital is a different media and I want to exploit it's particular properties. It will be interesting to see how far people can push it, since it seems we're just at the very beginning...I think at some point you might want to consider joining in on our OFDWs ~ we're doing a Master Copy now, which would be good for you, I think, in terms of translating some of that traditional 'feel' into digital pieces. :) (For me, too, if I had more time). ;)

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-26-2006, 04:14 PM
@Rebecca
yes, it's not that easy to mimic traditional art.

here's a bunch i made over the last days (the MasterDrawings are getting more sketchy, cause i used all the good ones already)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC81.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC82.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC83.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/MC84.jpg

i thought what works with mastercopies might work with other stuff too; so i start my female-form-series right now :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/RefGirl01.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/RefGirl02.jpg

3dcgi
01-27-2006, 05:57 AM
I think you're work definitely resembles Luis Royo's. He is my favorite artist, and I also strive to achieve similar style and photorealism to his in my work. Awesome job, keep up the good work.

ErichSchreiner
01-27-2006, 06:49 PM
@3dgi

thx. i like royos style too, he's my fave out of all the artists that do pin-up-like stuff

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/RefGirl03.jpg

ErichSchreiner
01-28-2006, 09:50 AM
next tries........


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/RefGirl04.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/RefGirl05.jpg

SpiritDreamer
01-28-2006, 11:35 AM
Hi ...Erich...;)

I like those female studies your doing, ..each one is getting better...more relaxed looking..:applause:
You might want to check out a links I just posted in FAVORITE FIGURATIVE ARTISTS in this
forum...their on page # 2 frame #23 ...both of those links are great, and might help you out
some how ...maybe...
You might post one of your favorite figurative artists while your there...start of a good
library there...needing more links though...;)
Keep up the GREAT work on your thread...I'M really enjoying SEEING it develope...:thumbsup:

TAKE CARE
Glenn

Rebeccak
01-28-2006, 02:09 PM
Erich,

I think that these drawings are good practice, but I think it's less important to try to do 'finished' drawing of figures in your case than it is to really dig in and explore structure.

There is definitely a difference between drawing for the sake of doing a 'nice drawing' and drawing for the sake of Analysis. I would really emphasize to anyone who is in the process of learning to improve their drawings that Analysis is more important than trying to do a finished work.

Also be careful of the Reference from which you draw. I see people drawing from rather non~artistic sources ~ such as the photographs of women from the web, which to my mind are more about the showcasing of attractive women than they are about art ~ and this focus in the Reference photos is reflected in the resulting images drawn or painted from them. Not to say that it's bad to draw from these kinds of photos ~ it's just to say that I think it's not the best. Hong's site (http://www.characterdesigns.com/) has better photos, I think, or sites like:

http://www.3d.sk/

are more artistic in focus.

I don't remember if you do or do not have Burne Hogarth's books (Dynamic Figure Drawing, Dynamic Anatomy, etc.) but I would recommend them to anyone ~ it's not to say that I think people should draw like him ~ I don't ~ but he breaks form down in such a clear way that it's a great source from which to learn how to achieve structure and dimensionality in your form.

If you've not already done so, check out the following thread:

Anatomy Thread of Thomasphoenix (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=296477)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=296477

Siju / Thomasphoenix is a great draughtsman who has really followed Hogarth and incorporated it into his own style.

EDIT:

I would also recommend to anyone participating in our Open Figure Drawing Workshops, all of which are listed here:

Open Figure Drawing Workshops with Hong Ly and Rebecca Kimmel (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2602753&postcount=3)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showpost.php?p=2602753&postcount=3

I think it's a really great way to improve your work in a group setting, with lots of encouragement and feedback. :thumbsup:

Hope this helps. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-28-2006, 02:37 PM
@Glenn

thx, i'll check out your thread :)

@Rebecca

those drawings are in no way finished. i just wanted to get some feeling for the female form, cause the mastercopies are more for the male form, i think :)

The photos were in either a thread of CGTalk concerning figurative resources or in a thread on conceptart, don't remember.
thx

i spent some time today trying some of painters mediums, cause i need to find a more expressive way of doing my artworks.

palette knife
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/expr02.jpg

acrylics, was harder to use than oil or gouache
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/expr03.jpg

Oil
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/expr04.jpg

Gouache
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/expr05.jpg

Charcoal
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/expr06.jpg

Guess i will choose oil or gouache

ErichSchreiner
01-29-2006, 10:07 AM
My first OFDW, brrr, scary :)

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/sketchOFDW12.jpg

Rebeccak
01-29-2006, 01:41 PM
Erich,

Fantastic! Why scary? You'll do great. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-29-2006, 03:56 PM
thx, hope so... :)

underpainting

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/underpaintingOFDW12.jpg

Rebeccak
01-29-2006, 03:58 PM
You'll be fine. The benefit of group work (as you know from the Workshop) is that it motivates you to do more than you might just on your own. I've seen plenty of people improve by leaps and bounds in the OFDWs. :) You'll be glad you joined. :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-30-2006, 05:07 PM
@Rebecca

i did understand a few things in the last days, and will prove them with this piece.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/color03OFDW12.jpg

Rebeccak
01-30-2006, 05:16 PM
Erich,

Lol ~ you're doing a great job! :thumbsup: As I said in the OFDW 012 thread, the upper torso looks great! Can't wait to see this finished. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
01-31-2006, 05:49 PM
thx Rebecca

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/color04OFDW12.jpg

ErichSchreiner
02-01-2006, 01:38 PM
the foreground figures are almost done, now i'll do the background.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/color05OFDW12.jpg

Rebeccak
02-01-2006, 01:57 PM
Fantastic work! :applause:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
02-02-2006, 05:42 PM
@Rebecca

thx

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/color06OFDW12.jpg

ErichSchreiner
02-03-2006, 10:27 AM
almost finished...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/color07OFDW12.jpg

ErichSchreiner
02-03-2006, 05:00 PM
finished...now it's time to go back and work on my portfolio

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/finalOFDW12.jpg

ErichSchreiner
02-07-2006, 01:20 PM
pirate-scribble and some thumbnails


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/pirates01.jpg
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/thumbs01.jpg

SpiritDreamer
02-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Hi ...Erich...:)

I like that second small thumnail composition...nice directional flow to it. Also really like
the expression on the devil in your Dante copy....captured it perfectly....GREAT job on
that whole painting....:thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

Rebeccak
02-07-2006, 11:17 PM
Erich,

Great job on the Bouguereau copy! :applause: Surely this can go in your Portfolio as well? :)

With respect to your new drawings ~ I really like the 2nd and 3rd thumbs ~ the top image (the large pirate one) lacks something I think in terms of composition.

Take a look at this excellent tutorial:

Composition Tutorial by Phillip Straub (http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3275&page=)
http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=3275&page=

I think it goes into some really useful concepts re: Composition and illustrates them really well. :)

Also, bear in mind the lessons you learned from the OFDW ~ the dynamism set up by diagonal lines in the Bouguereau copy are missing from the top composition. I think if the left foreground pirate had a more dynamic pose, say, were leaning into the composition more and facing more away from the viewer, with maybe a hand resting on a rail or something, the composition might be more exciting. Try thumbnailing it, and just throwing down some lines ~ the action and the movement in the image will be expressed in just a few quick strokes which establish the way the eye will move about the piece.

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
02-09-2006, 01:49 AM
you did an awesme job on the bouguereau piece el chief! i also enjoyed your last wip, will you turn your thumbs into full paintings too?

ErichSchreiner
02-09-2006, 05:22 PM
@Spirit dreamer

thx a lot. the copy was not too bad for the first try, i think :)

@Rebecca

thx. yes, the pirate-scribble was not thought out, and i didn't make any thumbnails for it, so that's another corpse in my exercise-mortuary :)

I downloade the straub-tut already, but i always forget about the rule of thirds...

@lyneran
thx. i ' ll make some more thumbs, and get something serious out of them hopefully :) . in the new set my faves are 'construction site' and station'. i need a scene with more figures for the expose 4, i have time left for it, so i will try something.
i'm working also on a few fantasy pin-ups. i constructed the example with pencil on paper, and traced over it via transfer-paper, to get a cleaner look.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/thumbs02.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/Pin01.jpg

ErichSchreiner
02-10-2006, 02:49 PM
some more sketches...


http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/construction_site.jpg

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/Pin02.jpg

don't know if i like this one
http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/Pin03.jpg


this was traced from a photograph (proportions and pose). the pose convinced me and it didn't seem to make sense to construct it again by my own.

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/Pin04.jpg

ErichSchreiner
02-16-2006, 11:47 AM
here's my first try in painting a fantasy pin-up. ref was used.

btw, is it sharp enough? i often used the airbrush and a blender...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/Pin01final.jpg

Rebeccak
02-16-2006, 05:24 PM
Erich,

WOW! This last piece is very impressive! :applause: Do you feel as though all of the master copies as well as the OFDW piece helped improve your drawing / painting abilities? Definitely interested in hearing your thoughts. :)

Can you post a higher res version? The only thing that bothers me is the the band of red around the outline of her suit ~ it seems to flatten the outfit out too much. Also, her raised arm seems a little funnily placed ~ what are your thoughts?

Great job with this! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Lyneran
02-19-2006, 01:57 PM
@lyneran
thx. i ' ll make some more thumbs, and get something serious out of them hopefully :) . in the new set my faves are 'construction site' and station'. i need a scene with more figures for the expose 4, i have time left for it, so i will try something.
i'm working also on a few fantasy pin-ups. i constructed the example with pencil on paper, and traced over it via transfer-paper, to get a cleaner look.

i see. thanks for sharing a bit about your process. goodluck with the expose 4 piece, it'll be great stuff for sure :thumbsup:

i love the paint job on that last piece! you're getting better and better! :thumbsup: although there's something on her left shoulder (a division bet. the deltoid & trapezius part i think) that i'm wondering about. i'm not quite sure though, maybe it's just because of the small size, or i might just be dazed as usual! :D would love to see a hi-res version too. :)

ErichSchreiner
02-25-2006, 08:01 AM
@Rebecca

thx. well, my eyes are more trained now than before, and i can recognize errors more quickly. the girl was made with photo-ref, so my drawing skills were reduced to developing the costume etc, so i think i'm able to draw figures, but without some refs, i think i couldn't make them look realistic right now. so i have to practice more :)

@Lyneran
thx. forgot the hi-res version, but i'll try to link one soon.

here's something without reference...

http://www.godlessbeauty.de/gallery/templars01_final.jpg

ErichSchreiner
02-25-2006, 09:11 PM
sorry, forgot the link to the bigger version

follow me (http://www.iconictales.com/pagesillustrations/templars01.htm)

Rebeccak
02-26-2006, 10:17 PM
Erich,

This is an impressive piece, particularly given that it's not from Reference! :) I feel a few of the figures feel a bit stiff, such as the sitting figures against the wall, and far right figures ~ perhaps using reference for these poses could help?

Overall, though, nice piece ~ perhaps a few areas of greater contrast could give it a little more 'punch'. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
03-01-2006, 08:40 PM
If you haven't already, you should totally join the Challenge!

http://features.cgsociety.org/challenge/journey_begins/enter.php

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
06-19-2006, 01:37 PM
hi folks. i was practicing a lot the last 1 1/2 years, and these are my actual skills. i think i need another few months to get where i want to...but as you all know, there are no short - cuts :)
i used ref for some of the paintings, i think you will see where. so here we go:

color

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/vampirric.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/LaFleur.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/silence_final.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/PinUp01.jpg

ErichSchreiner
06-19-2006, 01:39 PM
B/W

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/suddendeath.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/seance.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/judges.jpg

creatures

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/souleater.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/counselor.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/parasite.jpg

i know i have a long road to go, but i feel not too bad about my stuff. have to do some more dynamic stuff in the future.

i would be glad about some critique :)

thx

aLoneCuzzo
06-24-2006, 03:37 PM
nice post.

the b/w characters look kinda stiff...

I like the moth creature thing the best and the woman w/ the sword...

Rebeccak
06-27-2006, 02:00 AM
Erich,

Some really strong work here. :thumbsup: It's great to see as a group like this. :)

Have you seen this excellent thread?

"PAINTOVER PLEASE" - painted crits on demand - with Steven Stahlberg (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=359226)
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=359226

If you are having doubts about any of your pieces, it might be a good opportunity to post one of your pieces to his thread for some great suggestions. :)

One thing I think you might work on with your figures is making them look more dynamic, and less stiff. Doing an occasional Master Copy of an artist such as Rubens will help to keep those skills sharp. I think one thing I see in your work is that forms don't always 'finish' or completely breathe ~ and I think adding a bit more gestural life to the figures will give them that much more believability. Would love to see you do another Master Copy, only one that was fully digital. It might be a good exercise to create a digital painting from Reference of Classical / Renaissance Sculpture, to really get the feeling of the round into your forms.

Check out these excellent references from the Web Gallery of Art:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/onophriu.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/psycheab.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/studyfem.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/baptist.jpg

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Rebeccak
06-27-2006, 02:02 AM
More great references:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/leda.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/107david.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/106david.jpg

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/Classical%20Art/271y_ram.jpg

ErichSchreiner
06-27-2006, 05:58 PM
@alonzo

thx. yes, i simply can't overcome the stiff look, don't know why...guess i didn't get something.

@rebekka
thx for the refs, i hope to find the time to copy some of them.

that forms don't always 'finish' or completely breathe
do you mean that it's not loose enough? sorry for asking but i think i didn't understand exactly what you mean.

i'm trying now for months to do more dynamic figures. when i'm strictly using refs, the paintings are never dynamic, when i try drawing without refs, and add some ref later on, the figures are often wrong...man, i hope there's some light at the end of the tunnel :)

Rebeccak
06-27-2006, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Erich: do you mean that it's not loose enough? sorry for asking but i think i didn't understand exactly what you mean.

i'm trying now for months to do more dynamic figures. when i'm strictly using refs, the paintings are never dynamic, when i try drawing without refs, and add some ref later on, the figures are often wrong...man, i hope there's some light at the end of the tunnel :)
Erich, bringing all of the pieces together in figure drawing / painting is no easy / fast task, I sure haven't mastered it. :) I think the key concept to bear in mind is that all forms, regardless of their complexity, are made of overlapping simple shapes.

You will see this concept repeated in all of representational figurative art throughout history. Well created form implies roundness from one side of the figure to the other. This is essentially the opposing curves concept in action. The white lines represent where the curve of one side of the organic shape implies the other side, and the black lines are the contour of the form which you intentionally create to bounce off of one another and to imply the other side:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b380/rebeccak5/00_General%20Figurative%20Concepts/Form-and-Breathing.jpg

Form created this way 'breathes'. The invisible connections between the sides of the form give the sense of a flowing, organic, whole form. If one side of the form fails to imply the other, then the form looks flat and stiff, and doesn't 'breathe'.

This is why it helps to exxaggerate the roundness of form on the page. With only lines as visual cues to form, this opposing curves method is the essential ingredient to creating illusion of human form on the page.

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

erilaz
06-28-2006, 01:06 AM
Erich, I haven't check your stuff in a while, but the new fantasy stuff you're dishing out is intense. There's some funky use of light and mood in those!

ErichSchreiner
06-28-2006, 08:37 AM
@rebecca

thx, i will have to think more about this principle.

@Martin
thx a lot, but the struggle continues :)

http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/archer.jpg

SpiritDreamer
06-28-2006, 01:07 PM
Hi...Erich.....:)

GREAT...colors.....atmosphere....air.....and dramatic lighting....:applause: :thumbsup:
TAKE CARE
Glenn

ErichSchreiner
07-06-2006, 02:00 PM
thx Glenn :)


http://www.drakken.de/ArtGallery/dyingfreedom.jpg

ErichSchreiner
07-07-2006, 09:20 AM
http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles09.jpg
http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles08.jpg

scribble, scribble, scribble...

ErichSchreiner
07-08-2006, 12:15 PM
next few scribbles...

http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles10.jpg

Rebeccak
07-08-2006, 05:57 PM
Erich,

Great to see your new piece! :) A few crits might be that the background purple seems a bit too simple ~ the composition seems too neatly divided into 3 roughly equal, color coded parts, and you might want to introduce a bit more saturation range there.

It's also cool to see your new figures. One thing I really recommend is trying some large format charcoal drawings on newsprint ~ it's a great way to loosen up and get some big gestures going. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
07-09-2006, 01:35 PM
@Rebecca

thx a lot :) . will look over the painting in a few days again.

will try charcoal soon.

http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles11.jpg

Rebeccak
07-10-2006, 05:54 AM
Erich,

Great to see that you are prolific as always. :) Looking forward to seeing some charcoal sketches, I think that will be just the thing!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
07-11-2006, 01:05 PM
@Rebecca

thx.
charcoal: this may take me some time, because i'm very busy at the moment :)

http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles12.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles13.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles14.jpg

http://www.drakken.de/stuff/scribbles15.jpg

Rebeccak
07-17-2006, 11:21 PM
Eric,

Np. :) I think once you start to loosen up, you will really start to make big strides in your work. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

ErichSchreiner
07-19-2006, 12:44 PM
@Rebecca

hope so :)

another painter test...

30 min after ref

http://www.drakken.de/exercises/face01.jpg

ErichSchreiner
07-19-2006, 02:43 PM
next...

http://www.drakken.de/exercises/face02.jpg

ErichSchreiner
07-19-2006, 03:56 PM
next...

http://www.drakken.de/exercises/face03.jpg

Rebeccak
07-19-2006, 04:00 PM
Erich,

I quite like the first of these:


http://www.drakken.de/exercises/face01.jpg

but it seems that in all of the portraits, the eyes are a bit flat ~ really give the faces eye sockets, and situate the eyes within the sockets to give the faces requisite depth. Also I really encourage you to use some of the References from the 50 Portraits Thread (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=375031&page=1&pp=35) instead of magazine / beauty shots, as typically these kinds of photos are not really for artistic purposes and not of very high quality in terms of lighting. Looking forward to seeing more of your work. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak