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dOMINUSMess
11-26-2005, 01:07 PM
Hi,

I'm trying to make sense of the coordinate system and have read ALL the threads here on the forum on that topic.

Question: I've read somewhere that when the "Coord Sys" button is off (meaning the old one is active), then LMB-dragging is in Parent mode and RMB-dragging is in Local mode.

Is this correct because I get the impression that it's the other way around?
I mean: when in New with Local selected, and turning off "Coord Sys" to go to the old, then the edit sphere does not change.
When in New with Parent selected, and turning off "Coord Sys" to go to the old, then the edit sphere does change.
This leads me to believe that when you turn off the New to go to the Old, that LMB-dragging affects the Local mode?

I'm probably completely wrong on this, but I find it very hard to figure out WHEN you have to use one, and when the other.
The manual did not enlighten me on the matter.

I'm sorry for asking so many annoying questions all the time, so thanks in advance.

EDIT : What I'm thinking in the meantime is the following :
When using the new coord sys, it's best to be in Parent mode when setting up the rig, but when at some point you would want more precise control on how to set it's coords, then switching to Local makes it clearer what you are doing.
Then when the positioning is done, switch back to parent mode and continue.
This to me seems the only benefit of being able to switch from Parent to Local coords, as far as rigging is concerned at least.
Please confirm if this makes sense or not, Thanks.

EDIT 2 : (I'm unstoppable :twisted: )
Is'nt it the easiest to do all setup and animating in LOCAL coords ?

Wegg
11-26-2005, 04:29 PM
I have to admit. . . I'm fairly confused on how it all works myself.

When I throw a null into the scene and turn off the Coord Sys to go back to the "old" way of doing things. . . it just doesn't quite work the way I remember.

I seem to remember left click dragging being "World" coordinates and Right click dragging being "Local". Now I kind of get. . . a mish mash of both. X, Y, Z, and Heading seems to always be world on left click drag and Local on Right click Drag but not pitch and bank. They seem to always be stuck in Local.

I hate to say this but. . . have to agree with a lot of the complaints on this Edit sphere. It often feels like I'm trying to back up a trailer in a truck. "Now which way do I have to turn the wheel to get it to turn the way I want? Is it this way? Nope thats not it. . . that way? Oh ok." Only. . . in 3 dimensions.

The new L, P, W and S coordinate systems are better but it seems as though some fancy shmancy gizmo could be created to visually allow that interaction without having to switch to the different modes of operation.

And I would LOVE to be able to grab that dotted line around the current gizmo and rotate in screen coordinates no matter what other coordinate system I'm in.

Gah I don't know.

I probably just confused everything.

Sorry. :sad:

dOMINUSMess
11-26-2005, 04:37 PM
Hey Wegg, do'nt be sorry.

I'm glad you posted this because now I know as a noob that even a pro is confused by it.

I guess the main question for me is : WHEN do I want to use Local and WHEN do I want to use Parent ?

That's what confuses me most and that's what's most important I think.
Could you shed any light on that ?

Thanks.

Wegg
11-26-2005, 04:51 PM
Is the old coordinate system Parent and Local? I thought it was world and local.

See now I'm really confused. :-)

But anyway with the NEW coordinate syste both options are there to allow you to decide how you want to make it rotate. So its really up to you. Parent to me is nice for wrist motion. Sometimes you want the hand to "face" a acertain way no matter how it is twisted around. So selecting the hand and picking parent allows you to visually see which direction H, P and B is on the Parent headings.

I say sometimes because. . . well. . . actually I never use it.

Local and world are all I use.

I WANT to use screen but it just doesn't work with my Brain.

Animation Master is ALWAYS in screen mode unless you switch to "rotate" or "move" modes and then there are rings and boxes and the like to grab and manipulate. I really miss that. I wanted screen to be the same :-(

I honestly don't know what the solution is. It seems like with Armatures someone really smart could go in and mock up exactly what they want but I never seem to have time to investigate further than typing in here saying "it seems like with armatures someone really smart could go in and mock up exactly what they want" and hope it happens one day. ;-)

dOMINUSMess
11-26-2005, 08:29 PM
Wegg posted: But anyway with the NEW coordinate syste both options are there to allow you to decide how you want to make it rotate. So its really up to you.
Well, since my last post I had been thinking that the solution was there right in front of me: if I want something to move a certain way, just "select" that way and move it.
I guess somehow it's so simple and that could not be the case for my brain :rolleyes: .
And then again, ..., hehe.

Thanks Wegg :thumbsup: .

maks
11-26-2005, 09:30 PM
Is the old coordinate system Parent and Local? I thought it was world and local.

Now I'm somewhat confused myself - with the old coordinate system it used to be LMB = parent, RMB = local and CTRL+RMB = world. But I just tested it again, and LMB doesn't seem to be neither parent nor world anymore... *me scratches his head*
I usually use the new coordinate system, so I didn't notice that before, but I'm pretty sure that with the old coordinate system LMB used to me parent :shrug:

dOMINUSMess, normally you'd use the coordinate system that suits your needs best, depending on the situation, but you have to be aware of an issue with local coordinates where, when you rotate an item on pitch beyond 90, pitch's rotation value reverts backwards and heading and bank do a 180 flip. The safest to avoid this is to work in parent coordinates, though they are not always as intuitive as local coordinates would be, so the choice can become tricky. The advantage of the new coordinate sytem is that the edit sphere orients itself accordingly to the selected coordinate space (local, parent, world, screen), which is more intuitive than with the old coord system where the edit sphere always stays oriented in local space.

All this has been subject of frequent discussions and requests and pmG promised a transformation system overhaul, which is one of the most needed updates on the animate system IMO, especially the pitch reverse issue (which is also present in LW btw, but not in XSI or Maya)... I really hope that we'll see this soon :rolleyes:

dOMINUSMess
11-27-2005, 06:44 AM
maks posted : dOMINUSMess, normally you'd use the coordinate system that suits your needs best, depending on the situation, but you have to be aware of an issue with local coordinates where, when you rotate an item on pitch beyond 90, pitch's rotation value reverts backwards and heading and bank do a 180 flip. The safest to avoid this is to work in parent coordinates, though they are not always as intuitive as local coordinates would be, so the choice can become tricky. The advantage of the new coordinate sytem is that the edit sphere orients itself accordingly to the selected coordinate space (local, parent, world, screen), which is more intuitive than with the old coord system where the edit sphere always stays oriented in local space.

All this has been subject of frequent discussions and requests and pmG promised a transformation system overhaul, which is one of the most needed updates on the animate system IMO, especially the pitch reverse issue (which is also present in LW btw, but not in XSI or Maya)... I really hope that we'll see this soon :rolleyes:
Thanks maks.
After reading all the threads on this topic here on CGtalk, and after having thought about it for days now, and with what you guys have said, it's starting to make sense now.
I had read about the 180 flipping, had noticed it myself, but could not translate that info to my workflow.
Now I feel I can, so thanks :applause: .

AlexK
11-28-2005, 09:29 AM
I normally just switch to the old coordinate system when I need to adjust my pivot. The old system allows that without offsetting the object, so it is WAY more convenient. :buttrock:

dOMINUSMess
11-28-2005, 12:29 PM
AlexK posted : I normally just switch to the old coordinate system when I need to adjust my pivot. The old system allows that without offsetting the object, so it is WAY more convenient.
Thanks for the tip AlexK :thumbsup: .

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