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Tank_3D_Attack
11-23-2005, 07:30 PM
DECEMBER 2005 ISSUE of 3D ATTACK - THE CINEMA 4D MAGAZINE

The December 2005 issue is now available in the 3D Attack Shop. Some of this months highlights:

FREE - New 3D Attack Watermark plug-in
Interivew with fashion designer Jana Rot
Interview with Dennis Miller
zBlur - Working on a Project by Thomas Pasieka
WIN - UNITY a value of $999.00
Model a Book by Bram van Gerwen
JENNA - Step by Step by Gary Zullo
Review: Discovering BodyPaint with 3DKiwi by Mark Gmehling
Artist Spotlight on Cornel Swobada
Layered Shaders by Rui Batista
Gnomon Workshop by Aaron Biscombe
Goodies and more.....

>>>3D ATTACK SHOP<<< (http://3dattack.net/shop/index.php?page=6)

http://3dattack.net/freestuff/December200501BIG.jpg

Thomas

marcom
11-23-2005, 07:49 PM
nice.

i'll have to wait until my c4d rl 9.52 download finishes. then i'm off to your shop!

:D

cheers
marcom

fretshredder
11-23-2005, 10:38 PM
Awesome as always!

Byla
11-24-2005, 07:36 AM
Hey, Jana Rot interview. Now, thats a good selling point for me :thumbsup:

STRAT
11-24-2005, 07:49 AM
will d/l at lunch time :)

MrBraun
11-24-2005, 08:09 AM
Tnx to all !! ;)

Tavy
11-24-2005, 01:05 PM
Hey, Jana Rot interview. Now, thats a good selling point for me :thumbsup:

Jana has to be one of the most delightful people I have interviewed to date. Not ony is she extremely talented, but kind and giving as well. It was a real honor to interview her. I'm expecting to see BIG things from her in the future :)

Tavy

RenatoT
11-24-2005, 05:08 PM
Is a nice day when 3D Attack is out :)

Thanks

esokanod
11-24-2005, 05:29 PM
DECEMBER 2005 ISSUE of 3D ATTACK - THE CINEMA 4D MAGAZINE

The December 2005 issue is now available in the 3D Attack Shop. Some of this months highlights:

FREE - New 3D Attack Watermark plug-in
Interivew with fashion designer Jana Rot
Interview with Dennis Miller
zBlur - Working on a Project by Thomas Pasieka
WIN - UNITY a value of $999.00
Model a Book by Bram van Gerwen
JENNA - Step by Step by Gary Zullo
Review: Discovering BodyPaint with 3DKiwi by Mark Gmehling
Artist Spotlight on Cornel Swobada
Layered Shaders by Rui Batista
Gnomon Workshop by Aaron Biscombe
Goodies and more.....

>>>3D ATTACK SHOP<<< (http://3dattack.net/shop/index.php?page=6)

http://3dattack.net/freestuff/December200501BIG.jpg

Thomas


Thanks *3DATTACK* :love:

flingster
11-24-2005, 07:52 PM
well i see dennis over on the ditools forum so good to seem him in print...
and also glad to see you picked up on the fashion designer as an interesting new area and topic of conversation...good work as usual guys...keep up the grind cos we're all loving it...and we know its hard work and appreciate all your efforts.
:applause::applause:

Erik Heyninck
11-24-2005, 09:05 PM
Very happy once again. Keep up the very good and much appreciated work!

kurtz
11-25-2005, 06:46 AM
Each month we await impatiently this magazine, and each month our
waitings are filled. Thank to TANK who helped me to carry
out the Project and allowed me to better understand Zblur.

Pierre...

Tank_3D_Attack
11-25-2005, 02:22 PM
Each month we await impatiently this magazine, and each month our
waitings are filled. Thank to TANK who helped me to carry
out the Project and allowed me to better understand Zblur.

Pierre...

I am glad I could help you out with your project Pierre :) Was fun for me! Allways willing to help if someone has a project going with zBlur or any of our other plugins. Glad to see that you guys enjoy the magazine too...happy holidays guys!

Thomas

Tank_3D_Attack
11-26-2005, 05:33 PM
Just a little info:

The ITALIAN version of the OCTOBER issue is availible now! Check our "sister" site here:

http://www.3dattack.it/

Thomas

Glyptic
11-27-2005, 11:14 PM
Bought my first copy yesterday.
Worth every penny and more.
Great help with Jenna.
Who knew??
Personally, I would like to see an article or some tutes that would help some of us CAD designers use Cinema more. I use Rhino, and love it. But really think it would be nice to use both NURBS and mesh modeling techniques. And combine the two.
The problem I have with Cinema in that regard is weak snap commands, quirky grids (can't set one and have it stick around visually) and other general uptight CAD needs.
But, geez, I love the UI. And find AR a pure delight.
Cinema is right on the edge of being a wonderful CAD design/viz/render tool.
Thanks to all the hard working folks at 3DAttack.
regards,
glyptic.

SeanL
11-28-2005, 02:58 AM
It looks good.

By the way, anyone know what UNITY is?

Tavy
11-28-2005, 03:16 AM
It looks good.

By the way, anyone know what UNITY is?


http://www.unity3d.com/


Tavy

Tank_3D_Attack
11-28-2005, 03:28 AM
Once again thanks for the kind replies folks. I am writing this here because we are concerned about the future of our magazine!

Our magazine is beeing pirated on many many sites and file sharing applications. I am actually shocked that people are not even willing to spend a few bucks on our magazine. We work very hard every month to bring you people the best tutorials, interviews, prizes and free plugins. What we get in return is a kick in the head from thiefs. If piracy of our magazine goes on like this then there is no point in continuation of this resource anymore. I hope that our faithfull and honest people will stand up and fight with us! If this goes on like this then we HAVE to raise the price dramatically and also think about other things to protect our magazine (which is actually way too expensive). There is not a whole lot of protection you can get for a digital magazine like ours so we depend on honest people (which they seem to shrink daily).


This is really sad...


Thomas

ernia
11-28-2005, 05:31 AM
Say it isn't so :(

I don't know what to say, but I can assure you that I will continue my support of your fine products.

Thiefs are reprehensibly destructive creatures. They don't realise, or they choose to ignore, that we are all living in Rousseau's Social Contract, and that in order get what civilization has to offer we all must give up certain things. If it wasn't for people past and present giving up certain things to play by the rules, these scumbag punks wouldn't have a pot to piss in. I don't imagine the thief in this case to be desperate; quite the contrary. No, he's probably a middle-class teenager who has everything given to him and therefore doesn't know what respect or consideration means. He has no conception of private property. Add to this the relative ease which technology allows such a crime, and we have an imbecile, stupid yet powerful.

There has just got to be consequences for his actions. How we do that I don't know. How we convince someone to allow themselves to feel quilty for thier own actions, I don't know. To find a thief is difficult work, and most times requires extraordinary measures because they hide like cockroaches from the light. We, the American people, recently had to amend our own constitution in hopes of finding cockroach terrorists who steal innocent lives.

Ok, a sensitive topic with me, obviously. Rant over. There is just no bigger let down than building something with your own sweat and tears only to have it stolen from you. Anything I can do, 3dattack, just let me know.

ernia

Tiziano
11-28-2005, 05:33 AM
My gosh, it's only $5/mag. Come on people, pony up! :banghead:

Rock on Tank, Tavy, Chris, etc... :thumbsup:

There's got to be a solution for this. Some kind of serial number or indentured servitude.

projectk
11-28-2005, 06:50 AM
It is sad, but that's the digital age for you. I think Computer Arts was having a similar problem. I hate to see people not paid for their work.

Erik Heyninck
11-28-2005, 07:38 AM
I deeply sympathize. You're indeed not the first to whom this happens. And I hope you can find a good solution asap.
Yet I don't think it's a good idea to make people who purchase regularly pay more as that would mean punishing the innocent to compensate for the criminals. And it won't help much against piracy either.

Tank_3D_Attack
11-28-2005, 12:18 PM
Thank you very much guys! It's good to see some of our regular readers posting their concerns too here. We will of course look into solutions to protect the magazine but we need to find one that is not a pain in the a$$ for our readers. I just don't get the mentality of these thiefs/kiddos that steal a $5 magazine.

Thomas

ooo
11-28-2005, 12:48 PM
Very sorry to hear this is happening. Maybe you can communicate with these thiefs by putting a special page inside the magazine to make them feel guilty by describing the possible consequences for the magazine. Not sure if it helps, but some of them might see the light (I hope).
I really hope this will not have bad consequences for your great magazine!

odo

jimzepellin
11-28-2005, 01:08 PM
I think anyone passing on the 3DAttack mag should, stop for a moment or two, put on some meditative music, get real calm then go and figure out how pathetic they really are.

jamacsween
11-28-2005, 01:08 PM
Hi Tank,

This is really poor and a real kick in the teeth. Not sure how your back end system works for seving up the pdfs but it should be possible to protect in a non-invasise way.

Have you thought about serving up each pdf for downloading after modifying a base, clean version. Modifications could change month by month and involve scattering a series of unique ids throughout the pdf source in different locations and logging order number against GUID for each version served?

OK some kids will be able to clean the pdf file but each one will need to be checked and scanned for anomolies which could be hidden anywhere (as long as it doesn't mess up the pdf internal structure - have you ever looked inside a pdf file...whew what a mess). In fact it might be possible to water mark a random image in each issue. The key is to write a wee piece of back end code that does this for you during every order and stores each guid located in that issue.

Its a start in getting the exact individual priating your mag (cw paypal/credit card details!!). If they are casualling pirating your works, then it may be enough to warn most off...

Just a though, and am off to buy the next issue now...have every one and think for a couple of quid (UK) or a pint of beer its great value.

JA

Tank_3D_Attack
11-28-2005, 03:41 PM
Hi Tank,

This is really poor and a real kick in the teeth. Not sure how your back end system works for seving up the pdfs but it should be possible to protect in a non-invasise way.

Have you thought about serving up each pdf for downloading after modifying a base, clean version. Modifications could change month by month and involve scattering a series of unique ids throughout the pdf source in different locations and logging order number against GUID for each version served?

OK some kids will be able to clean the pdf file but each one will need to be checked and scanned for anomolies which could be hidden anywhere (as long as it doesn't mess up the pdf internal structure - have you ever looked inside a pdf file...whew what a mess). In fact it might be possible to water mark a random image in each issue. The key is to write a wee piece of back end code that does this for you during every order and stores each guid located in that issue.

Its a start in getting the exact individual priating your mag (cw paypal/credit card details!!). If they are casualling pirating your works, then it may be enough to warn most off...

Just a though, and am off to buy the next issue now...have every one and think for a couple of quid (UK) or a pint of beer its great value.

JA

Thanks for your input and ideas on that jamacsween! Since I'm no programmer I will have to ask Chris to look into that kind of thing. Does anybody else know of other solutions? Something that is "easy"? I am looking for solutions for quite a while now but nothing seems to work as I want it to.

Thomas

ernia
11-28-2005, 03:56 PM
This idea might be workable:

How about secretly placing an individual, indentifying number somewhere in each magazine, and when you send out a mag you have a match of the downloader and
the specific mag. Then when a copy shows up somewhere, you have the number it came from :)

They have technology out there which embeds information in photographs, or you could just print a long number, say 20 digits, and just use specific digit placements for the code number. For example, digits 2,3,7,19 could be the 4-digit number which changes with each mag. Just have Chris write a prog that generates the numbers and places the number in each mag--AND records the information for later reference. It would have to be hidden, otherwise the POS thief could just delete the number and send out a new version. If they don't know where the number is then they are less likely to send it back out.

Just ideas. I'm not a genius in this stuff, so I'm sure there are ways around my suggestions. Just offering my two cents.

ernia

Whoops. Jama got there before me.

JoelOtron
11-28-2005, 04:21 PM
To be honest, I'd actually prefer a printed version. I pay 15-ish USD several times a year for 3d World and would be willing to pay roughly the same for 3DAttack--as its even more relevant to a c4d user. I know this means more hardships for you to produce (printing and shipping) but just thought I'd throw it out there.

I find that if its a pdf on my harddrive, I dont get around to opening them often because I'm busy and printing on my end is kind of a pain for various reasons. Thats just me--I dont know if I'm in the minority here.

boxy
11-28-2005, 04:42 PM
To be honest, I'd actually prefer a printed version. I pay 15-ish USD several times a year for 3d World and would be willing to pay roughly the same for 3DAttack--as its even more relevant to a c4d user. I know this means more hardships for you to produce (printing and shipping) but just thought I'd throw it out there.

I find that if its a pdf on my harddrive, I dont get around to opening them often because I'm busy and printing on my end is kind of a pain for various reasons. Thats just me--I dont know if I'm in the minority here.


Put me down for the same thing for the same reasons. I'd love to see a subscription on this mag :)
I have bought a copy or two but apart from an initial flick thru, I never managed to get back to them. I never do with pdfs...so there are at least 2 of us. Guess I prefer to read without the accompaniment of a constantly whirring HD...
Boxy

Tank_3D_Attack
11-28-2005, 04:42 PM
To be honest, I'd actually prefer a printed version. I pay 15-ish USD several times a year for 3d World and would be willing to pay roughly the same for 3DAttack--as its even more relevant to a c4d user. I know this means more hardships for you to produce (printing and shipping) but just thought I'd throw it out there.

I find that if its a pdf on my harddrive, I dont get around to opening them often because I'm busy and printing on my end is kind of a pain for various reasons. Thats just me--I dont know if I'm in the minority here.

Well a printed version might be possible and we are looking into it. The price for the magazine will be pretty much what you already said...around $15 (shipping and handling included).

Now the question is if our readers are willing the pay the price?

Thomas

AdamT
11-28-2005, 04:44 PM
To be honest, I'd actually prefer a printed version. I pay 15-ish USD several times a year for 3d World and would be willing to pay roughly the same for 3DAttack--as its even more relevant to a c4d user. I know this means more hardships for you to produce (printing and shipping) but just thought I'd throw it out there.

I find that if its a pdf on my harddrive, I dont get around to opening them often because I'm busy and printing on my end is kind of a pain for various reasons. Thats just me--I dont know if I'm in the minority here.
Same here. I always print out the .pdf anyway because I don't like reading lengthy pieces on the computer screen. Incidentally, it would be nice if there was a print-friendly version of the magazine. The gigantic graphics and ads are a real toner drain.

But I imagine you'd have to have a pretty big circulation to make printing economical.

talos72
11-28-2005, 04:53 PM
Well, I have been purchasing every issue since the premier one. I think it is a unique magazine that serves a specific community. To the publishers, please do not be discouraged as there are plenty of honest C4D users out there and who are willing to support. Even though I also collect Computer Arts also, it still costs me $16 here in the states. I try to sift through every issue trying to find articles and tutorials on C4D, so an entire magazine such as 3DAttack dedicated to C4D at $5 is a fantastic value. I hope you would reconsider raising the price drastically, though I understand your concern.

Triker
11-28-2005, 04:54 PM
What about secure, printable web pages that are accessed through a pay portal. The pages can be printed on a local printer, but the link is only accessed through payment. In other words do not create files that can be distributed electronically. For me paying and printing out once would be quite doable. Goodies could be accessed the same way.

Protection of copy-writable material is a constant battle for everyone, good luck.

I truly appreciate the service and products you guys have provided. I would be willing to pay an annual subscription fee, if that is what it would take to keep you going.

Chrissyboy
11-28-2005, 04:58 PM
Well a printed version might be possible and we are looking into it. The price for the magazine will be pretty much what you already said...around $15 (shipping and handling included).
Now the question is if our readers are willing the pay the price?
Thomas

Hi Thomas - it's a shame that this thread has brought us such bad news. I can sort of see why someone would download a free copy if it was available - I really can't get to grips though with why someone would buy the magazine and then put it online for other people to get for free - it's sort of like vandalism without a target, unless these jerks are collecting ad revenue through hits or site visits?

However, I'd probably think twice about buying a print version - the beauty of your current system is that I can just download it before a long train journey, or a flight or whatever, and it arrives immediately - it's more of an impulse buy. If it was bought to be delivered in a week or whatever, well there would have to be something really of interest for me to buy it.

Couple of quick questions; do you think the jerks downloading for free would otherwise buy the magazine? And has the revenue from the magazine dipped significantly recently?

The trouble is that I can't see how you'd beat someone who's taking this much effort to distribute your content.

Tank_3D_Attack
11-28-2005, 05:04 PM
Hi Thomas - it's a shame that this thread has brought us such bad news. I can sort of see why someone would download a free copy if it was available - I really can't get to grips though with why someone would buy the magazine and then put it online for other people to get for free - it's sort of like vandalism without a target, unless these jerks are collecting ad revenue through hits or site visits?

However, I'd probably think twice about buying a print version - the beauty of your current system is that I can just download it before a long train journey, or a flight or whatever, and it arrives immediately - it's more of an impulse buy. If it was bought to be delivered in a week or whatever, well there would have to be something really of interest for me to buy it.

Couple of quick questions; do you think the jerks downloading for free would otherwise buy the magazine? And has the revenue from the magazine dipped significantly recently?

The trouble is that I can't see how you'd beat someone who's taking this much effort to distribute your content.

Hi Chris,

Well I surely understand your concern. Of course it's nice to directly download the magazine without having to wait a few weeks for your magazine to arrive. On the other hand...the thiefs out there are hurting us pretty bad and that's why we have to do something about that. Going with a printed version is one option and would of course get rid of pirates that way since there will be no downloadable version anymore. The only way to get the magazine would be by ordering it through us. Now the bad side is that you would have to wait a little bit for it to arrive at your home. But then again it's pretty much the same with 3D World or any other magazine you buy online. We will need to think about all this but it's really hurting us at the moment.

Thomas

AkaKico
11-28-2005, 05:17 PM
I would certainly buy a subscription to a printed version if that's the route you guys go with it. It is nice to have something to read away from the computer. It would also be nice if there was a subscription for a number of months online rather then buying one at a time each month. Eh, whatever you do as long as it still has good content I'll keep buying. I'm just glad such a thing is around in the first place. :)

Chris

Jake-L
11-28-2005, 05:21 PM
I, for one, would love to subscribe to a hard copy. And a price range similar to that of 3D world sounds right.

AdamT
11-28-2005, 05:23 PM
I, for one, would love to subscribe to a hard copy. And a price range similar to that of 3D world sounds right.
Quoted for agreement.

Tavy
11-28-2005, 05:33 PM
Last night I googled 3D Attack and found not one or two forums distributing the magazine, but at least 10. I also found a few sites that were dedicated to pirated magazines distributing as well. One of these sites showed the number of downloads each magazine had to date. The November issue of 3D Attack had over 7,000 downloads. That was just one site. They even altered the cover and put another logo on it saying something like 'Brought to you by Avant'....something like that. I don't remember exactly. Does it hurt business? YES! Of course it hurts business. Maybe only a small fraction of those who are downloading it for free would actually buy the magazine, but if they were to buy it it would make a difference. We know we can never stop all of the illegal downloading, but we have to try to find a solution to minimize it.

Tavy

JoelOtron
11-28-2005, 05:44 PM
Couple of quick questions; do you think the jerks downloading for free would otherwise buy the magazine? And has the revenue from the magazine dipped significantly recently?


I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully you still have the base users buying it. People who steal get obsessed with getting stuff for free I think--and otherwise wouldnt buy what they take--and probably wont even use what they take.

JoelOtron
11-28-2005, 05:50 PM
Well a printed version might be possible and we are looking into it. The price for the magazine will be pretty much what you already said...around $15 (shipping and handling included).

Now the question is if our readers are willing the pay the price?

Thomas

Good point--its a gamble. I wonder how well Keyframe and HDRI mag does as far as sales go. They are both pretty software specific. Would probably be out of the question to get the magazine published and distributed that way...

I suppose--as already mentioned---adding a security measure of some type into the pdf doc would at least make it more difficult for theft to occur.

ernia
11-28-2005, 06:00 PM
Well a printed version might be possible and we are looking into it. The price for the magazine will be pretty much what you already said...around $15 (shipping and handling included).

Now the question is if our readers are willing the pay the price?

Thomas

Well, I don't want to come off as a George Costanza here, but if the price is raised to $15 an issue that's going to put some people in the position of "ok, now it's either the mag or a plugin or two; they both cost the same over a year and I can't get both." Printed version would be nice but part of the appeal is the value of the mag--so much juicy content at a great price.

Seems the copy problem could be abated by leveraging money on the digital solution side. 3dattack needs to decide whether they want to stop the theft or track the thief for later prosecution. Both are expensive options, perhaps one more than the other.

'Course there is one other option: there are people out there you can hire to convince other people to do what is in their own best interest :) Hey, whatever works, right?
I'm just kidding. But this is a very serious problem that needs to be remedied. So much rests on respect for private property.

ernia

Triker
11-28-2005, 06:09 PM
Last night I googled 3D Attack and found not one or two forums distributing the magazine, but at least 10. I also found a few sites that were dedicated to pirated magazines distributing as well. One of these sites showed the number of downloads each magazine had to date. The November issue of 3D Attack had over 7,000 downloads. That was just one site. They even altered the cover and put another logo on it saying something like 'Brought to you by Avant'....something like that. I don't remember exactly. Does it hurt business? YES! Of course it hurts business. Maybe only a small fraction of those who are downloading it for free would actually buy the magazine, but if they were to buy it it would make a difference. We know we can never stop all of the illegal downloading, but we have to try to find a solution to minimize it.

Tavy


That's unbelievable.

flingster
11-28-2005, 08:32 PM
crikey this is bad news...
if funding for magazine drops...then things like getting jenna would never be possible...we need to sort this out as a community...
ideas people keep them coming...its not acceptible behaviour and we need to be rid of it if we want to keep the benefits of having a small publisher like 3dattack around in the future.
bitterly dissappointed with this news and not at all what you want to hear...
wonder whether there is some form of digital rights management around to control this better on the fly rather like some music industry initiatives. why don't these people realise they are killing the golden goose that laid the golden egg here!

Tavy
11-28-2005, 08:50 PM
One way to help would be if you who are reading this thread and buy the magazine, yet frequent one of these forums that are giving it away, would start making complaints to the admins of that forum. One site removed the download links due to complaints from their members that what they were doing with the mag was not only wrong, but illegal. If more people spoke up it would help.

Tavy

flingster
11-28-2005, 09:11 PM
i'd say lets name and shame...but might actually cause more problems with people going to download..

its up to you guys at attack...if you name and shame we will try and do our bit for ya if thats likely to help...we have a big community here and you are not alone in this...i'm sure people will try to help however they can...if its a standard email until they remove links from there servers then so be it...lets give it a go..
:shrug:

Jorbu
11-28-2005, 09:49 PM
I've been buying the magazine since the first issue and I will continue to support it as much as I can. (electronic or print format) It's a great C4D resource and as a community we should be able to do what we can to keep it going. Count me in!

wesware
11-28-2005, 09:53 PM
I would buy a hard copy...
Set it up, slap it down, rub it wrong and call me Suzy.
I really would.

darf
11-28-2005, 10:06 PM
I would buy a hard copy...
Set it up, slap it down, rub it wrong and call me Suzy.
I really would.

To the BlankMobile J-5!!!

edit: probably wrong reference, but BlankMan rocks!!!

darf

mwalter1
11-29-2005, 12:23 AM
I have every copy of 3Dattack magazine. I will continue to purchase them in whatever form they take. I did pick up a printed copy at Siggraph. It was nice seeing it in print.

Can't think of a way to stop the theives, but it sure does get me mad to hear that you guys are being ripped off. I bought a second copy of the December issue just to help out. Hey, I wanted to read it at work anyway...

pootle
11-29-2005, 01:51 AM
This thread has finally persuaded me to de-lurk!

I've bought every issue of 3D Attack mag since it came out, and it's always proved to be great value for money. Even better is knowing I'm supporting a great resource and the recent FREE release of JENNA is just an example of this (although I'm yet to scrape together the pennies for the upgrade to v9).

I too would actually prefer a printed mag as I like being able to curl up on the sofa with it and while I can print it out it takes a lot of ink on my old and rather battered HP Deskjet. I'd be happy to pay current 3DW prices (US$15?) for a printed mag.

Tank, Tavy, and everyone else at 3D Attack, you have my deepest sympathies. Rest assured that if I see anyone offering the mag for download anywhere I will come down on them like a ton of bricks. It's frustrating enough having to deal with people pirating 3D software let alone seeing miserable spongers who won't even fork out five bucks for a great magazine.

Accipiter
11-29-2005, 02:02 AM
Well, I just purchased the four most recent issues (and zBlur earlier) to show my support - worth every penny - something I should've done sooner. Really folks, get off your rear ends! 3DAttack is one of the very best C4D resources out there - let's make sure we don't loose them.

Tank/Tavy:
I have to say I'm baffled though as to why you don't password protect your pdfs? The pdf format allows you to set a master password so that others can't alter the content or copy&paste text/graphics. You can also set a password to view or print the pdf.
Ideally, there would be a way that you can turn the Paypal purchase confirmation into an individual's password so you would know who's ripping you off - just a thought.

cheers,

Marc Oliver

Tank_3D_Attack
11-29-2005, 02:12 AM
Well, I just purchased the four most recent issues (and zBlur earlier) to show my support - worth every penny - something I should've done sooner. Really folks, get off your rear ends! 3DAttack is one of the very best C4D resources out there - let's make sure we don't loose them.

Tank/Tavy:
I have to say I'm baffled though as to why you don't password protect your pdfs? The pdf format allows you to set a master password so that others can't alter the content or copy&paste text/graphics. You can also set a password to view or print the pdf.
Ideally, there would be a way that you can turn the Paypal purchase confirmation into an individual's password so you would know who's ripping you off - just a thought.

cheers,

Marc Oliver

Thank you mwalter and Accipiter! Your support is very much appreciated and we can't thank you guys enough! A big thank you also to all our HONEST readers!

Now to the protection thing. Of course we can password protect the magazine and we will do that with the next magazine but it will do only so much. The password will be a general password so it won't give too much of a protection. Everyone who buys the magazine will know what the password is so that on the other hand means that the thief will know as much as our honest reader do. At least we can be a little pain in the butt. Everything that makes it more complicated for the thiefs is fine with me....our readers sure won't disagree with me on that.

We really have to thank all of you here for supporting us...we didn't mean to whine around here but we are really concerned about how things go lately and we just wanted to inform you about this. We are seriously thinking about going to a printed version but that might take a little and we will do a testrun if the time comes and see how people accept the printed version.

Thomas

Accipiter
11-29-2005, 02:20 AM
Even if you don't want to bother with a password to view the mag, the master password would stop some of those other sites from pasting in their logos or otherwise mutilating your work. As for a printed mag, I'd probably subscribe, but I bet that for you guys it just might create as many new problems as it would solve old ones - careful...

cheers,

Marc Oliver

tonare
11-29-2005, 06:16 AM
Thats really sad. Too take something we all apparently love and look forward too each month and make it somewhat have an ugly side.
I've been getting the magazine since day one( i have every one of them)...hell I was going to do an abstract tutorial for it( but never had time to do so), so it just pisses me off that freeloader's might take something I look forward too every month away.=/

Hope 3d attack can figure out someway of fighting piracy off, would be hard though. But i'm sure something can be done.

ooo
11-29-2005, 07:21 AM
Even if you don't want to bother with a password to view the mag, the master password would stop some of those other sites from pasting in their logos or otherwise mutilating your work. As for a printed mag, I'd probably subscribe, but I bet that for you guys it just might create as many new problems as it would solve old ones - careful...

cheers,

Marc Oliver

Unfortunatly it's very easy to crack a protected PDF, so it will only be a low-level barrier...

howzit
11-29-2005, 08:22 AM
.
back in the day everyone i knew as poor students hacked software. it cost 800 to 2000 dollars!! since then these big companies offer student discounts, so we payed 100 bucks instead of 2000. likewise, shareware software costs like 20-90 bucks.
a magazine that will teach you and inform you on how to use this software and in turn put food on your table costs 5 bucks. you can have the software, but if you cant do anything with it its useless.
even as a poor students, i bought the mag. all my peers spent at leat 20 bucks a day on beer.
there is no excuse for pirating a 5 buck mag. even if people think they have no money, i can bet they spend more on beer and ciggaretes.
just to put things in perspective.
i hate this, i really do.
please dont stop providing those of us who are responsible in the dark becuase of those dirty usless pirate people.

JoelOtron
11-29-2005, 01:37 PM
We are seriously thinking about going to a printed version but that might take a little and we will do a testrun if the time comes and see how people accept the printed version.

Thomas

Cool

One way to get feedback on whether printed mags will work would be to offer yearly subscriptions up front (I'm sure you thought of that). If enough people purchase the subscriptions ( I would) that might give you some cash up front to offset immediate costs (?). Of course this changes things a lot--as 3DAttack would go from a no-brainer 5 dollar purchase to about $100 for the year and might be more than the average reader wants to spend. But for those getting these printed at a print shop or using up the toner on your inkjet--the cost is probably the same over a year.

I'm sure many of these guys buy other magazines each month too so if you look at it that way I think its worth it. If I saw a c4d magazine on the newstands I'd most lilkely buy it al the time.

Continuumx
11-29-2005, 02:32 PM
Thanks 3D Attack for the December Issue, just snapped it up. I like the PDF format actually, but will support whatever medium you desire to make it available.

Keep up the great work! Its the name that counts and 3D Attack means quality and a valued Cinema 4D asset.

mmhnemo
11-29-2005, 05:56 PM
Pestilence to the pirates!

That being said i am concerned about the matter.
As i see it the only way to prevent pirating is the transfer to a physical medium. That however involves much higher cost in production and in turn in sales price. And if, god forbid, business isn't running too smooth for a month or two these costs can't be lowered much because the entire process for printing needs to be pretty much fixed as these people too want to get paid...

So moving to print is a dangerous avenue for a small magazine like 3Dattack(let me assume this).
The situation is difficult at least.

Is there a way to personalize the files? That might be a way to point out the sources that feed the illegal downloads.
At least for subscriptions this might be a way but if you are able to get the name for every purchaser you might consider creating the PDF on the fly and using a personalized watermark in every picture (and other places)?

I'm just spamming out concerns and ideas.

Hope you will master this!

Tank_3D_Attack
11-29-2005, 06:07 PM
Pestilence to the pirates!

That being said i am concerned about the matter.
As i see it the only way to prevent pirating is the transfer to a physical medium. That however involves much higher cost in production and in turn in sales price. And if, god forbid, business isn't running too smooth for a month or two these costs can't be lowered much because the entire process for printing needs to be pretty much fixed as these people too want to get paid...

So moving to print is a dangerous avenue for a small magazine like 3Dattack(let me assume this).
The situation is difficult at least.

Is there a way to personalize the files? That might be a way to point out the sources that feed the illegal downloads.
At least for subscriptions this might be a way but if you are able to get the name for every purchaser you might consider creating the PDF on the fly and using a personalized watermark in every picture (and other places)?

I'm just spamming out concerns and ideas.

Hope you will master this!

Well the only way to get rid of pirates is by going to print no doubt. Costs are of course higher and the market is small so that's why we need to find out if it makes sense. I created a poll on our forum for this so you folks might wanna stop by here and vote!

http://www.3dattack.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4260


Thomas

bobzilla
11-29-2005, 06:19 PM
Well, I too, rather read printed material. As it is, when I close my eyes I still see my desktop!

But, you might also think of putting a password on the PDF and/or .sit/ZIP files. Maybe something like our forum passwords since you have all of those already. The only prerequisite for buyinh the mag would be to join the forum to create a password.

Just a suggestion...

AdamT
11-29-2005, 06:26 PM
I like the idea of embedding an identifying ID somewhere in the .pdf. At least that way you can find out where the leaks are coming from.

I still favor a printed edition. Good idea to presell with the caveat that the amount charged will only be put through if there is enough interest. That way you'll have actual commitments from those who will pay, as opposed to verbal commitments from those who just *say* they would pay.

cvliv
11-29-2005, 06:43 PM
i dont know how feasible this is. but if the password for the pdf was something personal, say the buyers full name, maybe email address, or even credit card number, even the most dishonest pirates would think twice before putting that stuff on the net....

3d attack rules. i have bought every issue, and some twice by mistake! keep it up.

edit:

also, doing things like this are almost free to test out and see if they have any impact. might want to try the pdf protection for a few months before invoking the nuclear option and going all print...

ooo
11-29-2005, 07:06 PM
I would no doubt buy the print version, but i still prefer the PDF-version. The instant gratification when you buy is always fun. And besides that the pdf's are searchable on words etc (even better with spotlight in OSX 1.3 and the forthcoming Windows Vista) So in this digital age PDF's are the way to go.

Did you already tried the embedded 3D-content in PDF? This is just so much fun! Check http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/MicroStation/Interactive+3D+PDF.htm for some examples.

Then on security. Not all kinds of security is safe on PD. I cracked a file once, on a occasion that the original password was forgotten by the author. With the right software, cracked in a second. But there are more secure ways in wich I don't have experience but are maybe better suited in this case. I found this link: http://www.locklizard.com/ Don't know if you tried this already?

Either way, PDF, or print I will suport this because is it's just the best magazine available for C4D!

odo

Tank_3D_Attack
11-29-2005, 07:12 PM
Hi again guys,

Well including some code into a PDF and make it work with 2 the billing options is a quite complicated task. There are solutions out there but these cost ALOT of money. If it would be that easy to do we would already have this implemented. It's really not easy or cheap to protect our magazine. We will of course password protect the next issue but as said...this will only do so much. We are twisting our brains to see what can be done but money is a big issue in this discussion. The price for the magazine will slightly raise with the January issue for various reasons (don't panic it won't be that dramatic). We would actually like to have both...the digital version and a printed version but we need to see if that makes sense.

Thomas

talos72
11-29-2005, 07:13 PM
I still prefer the digital medium. Not just because of the cost (which can be an important factor), but because of space. I use my laptop a good deal and it is easier to carry 10 issues of 3D Attack on a disk than to haul magazines around. Beyond that, if the only methode for printed version would be an annual subscribtion (like $100 for 3D World) it would be too much cash up front...that's more pressure for many people.

One other note, there is another e-magazine "Render Node" that uses some kind of security system on their pdf files which I found absolutely a pain to use. I bought the first paid issue and could not open it up half the time because of some weird setup they have with their protected files. I never bought another issue...to bad because it seems like a usefull mag too. I hope 3D Attack doesn't use whatever they use for their security.

n0rac7
11-29-2005, 07:14 PM
Thanks 3D Attack for the December Issue, just snapped it up. I like the PDF format actually, but will support whatever medium you desire to make it available.

Keep up the great work! Its the name that counts and 3D Attack means quality and a valued Cinema 4D asset.

You would'nt want to put your credit card number on, for the sake of a leak and them finding it out.
Maybe a pin number at the very least.
ID sounds best, since you could possibly find the leaks.

tcastudios
11-29-2005, 07:33 PM
Since it is more likely that people that want ( or just -say- they want) a printed version is going to say so and those who don't (for no particular reason) won't, I'd say that I'm not interested in a printed magazine. Not because it's from 3DATTACK, because I don't buy -any- mag anymore.

I'm sure a 3DATTACK mag would be one of the better ones and I was up till a couple of years ago a big mag buyer. Reluctant to all netmags there was. But time and I change.
The convinience with PDF's and websites are to big compared with a papermag.
And I don't know of any mag that is -not- at least 80% adds in any form, adding to the environment question...

Now, I'm partly "guilty" in these particular issue not beeing a 3DATTACK mag buyer , but have bought a couple of the plugs and will buy/rebuy all the former Core stuff.
Essentially I buy things that I find use for. Buying things for "the good" can never be more than a small part of an economy.

I think it would make more sense to charge whatever you have to sell.
I would have bought Jenna. But expecting people to by charity buy the mag because it was free can not work.

I have no particular advice really but I'd think pumping up the expectations and starting a papermag have to be a short experience in the end. I'd rather see a pumped up modern solution with -perhaps- a luxury "3DADDACK Yearbook". You know, top notch print where there is no question about the quality that -do- cost. That kind of "book" can be pre sold and printed in smaller series. Adding an "edge" to the 3DATTACK.

My two öre..

Cheers
Lennart

n0rac7
11-29-2005, 07:41 PM
I just had to say Jana Rot is beautiful.:)

cvliv
11-29-2005, 07:55 PM
You would'nt want to put your credit card number on, for the sake of a leak and them finding it out.
Maybe a pin number at the very least.
ID sounds best, since you could possibly find the leaks.

then full name or email. that would be a deterrent... and easy to pinpoint the leaks...

flingster
11-29-2005, 08:35 PM
Cool

One way to get feedback on whether printed mags will work would be to offer yearly subscriptions up front (I'm sure you thought of that). If enough people purchase the subscriptions ( I would) that might give you some cash up front to offset immediate costs (?). Of course this changes things a lot--as 3DAttack would go from a no-brainer 5 dollar purchase to about $100 for the year and might be more than the average reader wants to spend. But for those getting these printed at a print shop or using up the toner on your inkjet--the cost is probably the same over a year.

I'm sure many of these guys buy other magazines each month too so if you look at it that way I think its worth it. If I saw a c4d magazine on the newstands I'd most lilkely buy it al the time.

also though there is a printed thing costing more...if people pirate a 5 dollar mag and that harms sales...then is also the flip of that a 15 dollar printed version might scare people off because of the price increase...i'm not saying btw that 15 dollars is a lot for what you're getting just trying to aire a sort of caution to thinking printing it will solve sales drip resulting from piracy..and someone could still scan the thing in...unlikely i guess...really we need to be saying its not acceptible to be a c4d user and read a pirated copy of 3dattack!

pirates of the high seas refrain or we sink your ships....:twisted:

flingster
11-29-2005, 08:49 PM
just had a thought...HOW about a way of proving you're a subscriber...strange but works in two ways...you show a unique id logo on say your online sig...this can be verified on the 3dattack site and also works as a promotional tool for 3dattack...kinda like a subcribers against piracy principle...shaming the b'stards who thief this little mag we love into showing we support it and won't accept piracy of it. its not likely to stop it being copied...but might stop people going and getting the pirated version because they are shamed into thinking they are not welcome on c4d web communities....

if you don't subscribe no problem - no logo
if you do subscribe - logo and id number

so i hear you asking...if i don't want to buy the mag i still want to surf the net...well this is not a problem anyways because its a message of support and guardian-ship of a treasured resource...you are not obligated to buy the mag get the logo and id.

if you pirate it then i hear you say...you'll just wander around the net without the logo and id in your sig....TRUE TRUE...BUT you won't post on a single forum that you do have a pirate copy or would hand them out!!! and this is the point... shame the b'stards its a form of ostracising them..(spelling :-/)

just an idea...with a different spin.

Tank_3D_Attack
11-29-2005, 09:29 PM
Hi there Flingster and thanks for your input on that. I really appreciate that and I will think about all this. A signature banner will at least give a message to the people or thiefs out there. Actually I think every C4D forum should have some kind of ANTI PIRACY banner availible so people can show what they really are about! I know this might turn some away but then again...you give a positve message and that message will spread through all C4D forums out there. Maybe a general ANTI PIRACY signature will do...thinking...thinking...anyone any input on that?

Thomas

c-montesano
11-29-2005, 09:38 PM
I think embedding some kind of personally identifiable info is the way to go. The problem is finding a cost effective way to do it... and finding something that will allow users to still download the mag immediately after purchase (without creating too much load on the server).

I looked into locklizard, but it requires a special viewer that is PC only, so that is out of the question. =)

As for the printed mag vs. the pdf, personally, I would like to see both available.

-Chris

Silverdog
11-30-2005, 01:43 AM
Tavy & Tank,
This whole situation is really upsetting! Seems nothing is sacred anymore. I for one
have purchased most of your magazines(still have to do Nov) and find them a great source
of information and inspiration. As much as I like printed mags, I have to admit that $15 a copy is a bit steep for me. I don't buy the other 3d mags unless there is something in them I can't do without. I like the idea of the 'Anti Piracy' banner for forums/members because there is also the major problem of software piracy, etc. To keep an anti-piracy message in the face of potential perps might reduce the occurances. Regarding 3D Attack Magazine, the imbedded serialization of each download with a link to the purchaser sounds reasonable and perhaps not too expensive or too much trouble. At any rate, I support your efforts in any way that I can! :thumbsup:

Kent

ps: This reminds me of a quote I saw last week: 'The World Sucks!.................But if it didn't, we would all fall off! :)

projectk
11-30-2005, 04:07 AM
I was always under the impression that if you sent the web master/web host an email claiming that your intellectual property is being violated that they would have to remove it off websites.

Failing that, your only other option is ninjas. ;)

My other concern is that even if you could make a print version, what is stopping your pirates from just scanning it? There's quite a comics pirate scene, particularly with bit torrent. I assume they just scan it too. :(

The digital age is a sad day for copyright protection..

chromecity
11-30-2005, 07:01 AM
Geez, this is sad. Like many others here, I have also purchased every issue. And like Lennart, I'm not real interested in a printed version. I think he brought up an important point - that most people who are not interested may not bother to say so, whereas people who have been wanting a printed version might be more apt to speak up. So please temper any decisions carefully, realizing that the sample set of voiced opinions may be somewhat skewed.

As for me, part of the 3D Attack appeal has been the instant gratification of immediate delivery. The price does factor in, so if it gets too expensive, I probably would not continue. And having been a subscriber to a long line of failed LightWave magazines over the years, I'm very gun-shy about the possibility of getting caught losing an average of half a year's subscription cost somewhere down the line if things don't work out. That's happened to many of us so many times that we're just not up for the risk anymore. I hope you come upon a suitable solution, but going to print might alienate many more users than it would gain. Especially if it required an annual subscription paid up front.

Another thing I didn't notice yet in this thread... what's to stop hard-core pirates from just scanning in a copy of the printed magazine and distributing it in PDF format or similar? Please consider that a change to a printed-only format may not be the silver bullet that it appears to be. Sure, scanning takes effort, but it only takes one person to do it, and then it could get distributed all over the world. I'd almost be surprised if it didn't occur.

Earlier in this thread, it was mentioned that most pirates would not otherwise be purchasers. With C4D users, I think that's probably very true. I think pirates are out to get whatever they can put their electronic mits on. But I don't think most of those characters are really C4D users. Other than they probably have a hacked C4D copy along with every other piece of high-end software. Is there a way to gauge how much this actually impacts sales? Monthly statistics that show trends of existing purchasers not coming back for more? Stuff like that. Maybe this isn't actually as bad as it appears. I certainly do hope you can come up with something to discourage or even eliminate the pirating, but hopefully just not one that spoils anything for the legitimate customer base. I know if things don't change too much, you'll certainly keep getting my few bucks every month.

flingster
11-30-2005, 03:35 PM
by adding a logo and unique id for each subscriber you would be acting like your own 3dattack anti piracy police force in a sense...by members protecting their own interests and keeping the cost down by subscribing..the more there are that are contributing the costs can drop via economies of scale...if piracy is reducing sales to a point that we could loose this magazine or have the cost rise so much that we loose it anyway because those who currently back it at its appealing price walk away its in no ones interest. subscribers would be able to control subscriptions, report abuses, view forum or added services via a web type portal maybe adding to the appeal of subscribing in the first place..dunno just a thought...kind of carrot and stick approach...i don't want to be wandering around the net and having to report abuses i'm one of those guys who has a live and let live approach to life but in this case we are actually in danger of losing not just a good magazine, a great community and plugin development ...its all bad and we need to as a community show that it won't be tolerated. if you for example take microsoft certified systems engineer exams and pass you are allocated an id and an potential employer can look on microsoft to see if you are actually certified in what you say you are (shared transcript https://mcp.microsoft.com/authenticate/validatemcp.aspx) a similar form of unique id for each subscriber could be allocated giving access to a portal, download link..would also prevent users posting fake logo and id on their sigs...
at the moment tying down the pdf itself is harder technology wise so this approach is a half way measure until you can sort the unique pdf id bit out.
just a thought.

edit: i would also give those sites currently hosting your pirated mag a warning with an amnesty for a short period of time for them to rectify their ways before they suddenly get bombarded with email complaints.

martinp
12-01-2005, 06:47 AM
One other note, there is another e-magazine "Render Node" that uses some kind of security system on their pdf files which I found absolutely a pain to use. I bought the first paid issue and could not open it up half the time because of some weird setup they have with their protected files. I never bought another issue...to bad because it seems like a usefull mag too. I hope 3D Attack doesn't use whatever they use for their security.

I've been reading these posts with mounting astonishment that anyone would rip off something as affordable as 3D Attack.

I want to just echo what talos has put here. By all means use steganography to tag a picture in the mag with an ID (and add a password too) but PLEEEASE don't go down the full DRM route that Rendernode and others have taken. I subscribed to a full 12 months of their mag, got only 6 before they went under and now to add insult to injury have a load of pdf's on a new laptop that wasn't "registered" with them and can't even read the original 6. Bollox!

Martin

Anti-Piracy, Anti-Strong but crappy DRM

Byla
12-01-2005, 07:10 AM
I just had to say Jana Rot is beautiful.:)

Oh yeah, she is... And great artist too.

esokanod
12-01-2005, 02:39 PM
Oh yeah, she is... And great artist too.

she is very nice :love: ===> http://www.rot.si/static/repository/hires/1128531557_rgb.jpg

Sneaker
12-13-2005, 12:28 PM
hi Tavy and Tank,

as I read through this thread I'm amazed that there are still honorous knights trying
to fight against piracy. It's a fight against windmills!
The big software companies and film/music insdustry is somewhat semi successful, but
they are far away from stopping it.
Don't misunderstand me. I bought every 3dattack issue from start on and I'm
against piracy, too. It just makes no sense to try to protect the magazine.
It's wasted enegry in the end.
There might be a solution with a personalized copy for each buyer to hunt down
some of the pirats, but you might attack an innocent by sending a email with a download link that can be read by email listeners. You need to protect the email, too!
The more I thought about how I can help protecting the magazine the more possibilities reveals
how to circumvent those actions.
I did what Tavy did and made a google search to find magazine downloads.
There are still a couple online. Bad thing - these sites offer complete books and printed magazines, too.
That means you can't protect it even with a printed version.
By the way, I installed a document archive system lately that can scan 200 pages per minute (400 doublex).

IMO you can't really protect it! You can only make it worse for the honest buyers,
which will end ind a bad spiral where the magazine dies in the end.
I love the maganzine and I want it to be continued.
Therefore you need to take advantage out of fact that it is being pirated
at such a high count. See German's Bild Zeitung - bad compare I know -
it's cheap and they sell 3,5 Mio a day with 11 Mio readers a day.
I don't think they're making their money collecting 50cent for each.

Don't waste your time to protect or hunt down piracy use your energy
to find a way to make $ out the fact that you have so many readers.
I don't want you to give it away for free and there need to be an info
that the magazine is not free on some pages.
I don't know how difficult it is to sell advertising space, I just know that
this is the only way you can go if you want to be successful.
Cinema has a limited user community. Open that up. Most of the
Cinema Users using different apps, too like Photoshop, Aftereffect, Shake
modo, Zbrush and other 3D apps.
You said some of the tutorials are easy to translate into another app - no further questions :D .

Find a way to let the current reader community grow and make it more interesting
for companies to advertise. There is some knoweledge from Asian martial arts that uses the
force of the opponent to take advantage from. Don't waste time and energy on things you can't stop.


-Michael

PS: One thing I need to say:
The magazine got pirated? - Welcome to the real world ;)

Tavy
12-13-2005, 12:48 PM
Sneaker - thanks for the comments and the support. It's really appreciated. Lot's to mull over.

Tavy

Rich-Art
12-13-2005, 02:20 PM
Strange that there are so many illegal copy's of the mag. How cheap must you go.

The mag is almost for free and still there are people finding this to expensive.
Strange world we live in this day's.

goodluck with hunting. And I hope the mag will be there next year to.


Peace,
Rich-Art. :thumbsup:

Tavy
12-13-2005, 02:28 PM
Strange that there are so many illegal copy's of the mag. How cheap must you go.

The mag is almost for free and still there are people finding this to expensive.
Strange world we live in this day's.

goodluck with hunting. And I hope the mag will be there next year to.


Peace,
Rich-Art. :thumbsup:

The mag with surely be there next year. It isn't going anywhere :) We will do what we can to protect the PDF, other than that, we just have to rely on the integrity of our readers.

Thanks for your support and have a Merry Christmas!

Tavy

xeno3d
12-13-2005, 02:58 PM
The mag with surely be there next year. It isn't going anywhere :) We will do what we can to protect the PDF, other than that, we just have to rely on the integrity of our readers.

Thanks for your support and have a Merry Christmas!

Tavy

Perhaps a password protected archive file and password protected goodies url? Although that may not do any good as the issues are getting leaked from someone, somewhere in order to be "available" in the first place.

Sad..

Sneaker
12-13-2005, 03:18 PM
Strange that there are so many illegal copy's of the mag. How cheap must you go.

The mag is almost for free and still there are people finding this to expensive.
Strange world we live in this day's.

goodluck with hunting. And I hope the mag will be there next year to.


Peace,
Rich-Art. :thumbsup:

I think there are a lot of kids without a paypal account or credit card.
There are others that don't do payments over the internet by default.
And of course people hunting for everything they can get for free
without even using it.
Hey, the mag looks quite cool an has nice pictures, other 3d users might
be interested what Cinema can do but not enough to spend 5 bucks on it.
Or just because someone is bored like reading magazines in a doctor's waiting room.
There are a lot of reasons, why someone won't buy a Cinema 4D specific magazine,
but would read (watch) it if it was free.

-Michael

ooo
12-13-2005, 03:51 PM
I think there are a lot of kids without a paypal account or credit card.
There are others that don't do payments over the internet by default.
And of course people hunting for everything they can get for free
without even using it.
Hey, the mag looks quite cool an has nice pictures, other 3d users might
be interested what Cinema can do but not enough to spend 5 bucks on it.
Or just because someone is bored like reading magazines in a doctor's waiting room.
There are a lot of reasons, why someone won't buy a Cinema 4D specific magazine,
but would read (watch) it if it was free.

-Michael

So best thing would be if it was sponsored by Maxon so it could be a free download for all. Hmm, great marketingstrategy I think! Won't happen but still...

I hope it stays as it is and continues to be the best magazine on C4D available :thumbsup:

odo

unseenthings
12-13-2005, 04:29 PM
I think there are a lot of kids without a paypal account or credit card.
There are others that don't do payments over the internet by default.
And of course people hunting for everything they can get for free
without even using it.
Hey, the mag looks quite cool an has nice pictures, other 3d users might
be interested what Cinema can do but not enough to spend 5 bucks on it.
Or just because someone is bored like reading magazines in a doctor's waiting room.
There are a lot of reasons, why someone won't buy a Cinema 4D specific magazine,
but would read (watch) it if it was free.

-Michael

If I'm not mistaken, there are a number of (older) 3D Attack Magazines available for free, in addition to a whole slew of websites to show "what Cinema can do" -- don't try to make excuses for people or justify the actions.

chromecity
12-13-2005, 04:53 PM
If I'm not mistaken, there are a number of (older) 3D Attack Magazines available for free, in addition to a whole slew of websites to show "what Cinema can do" -- don't try to make excuses for people or justify the actions.Yes, the original group of issues were free, but I don't think it's fair to hold anything against Michael for being frank about the reality of this situation. It's not like he said he supports such behavior. To the contrary, he said he has purchased every issue (as I have also).

Keep up the fine work, Tavy, Tank, & Co.

dann_stubbs
12-13-2005, 05:35 PM
Yes, the original group of issues were free, but I don't think it's fair to hold anything against Michael for being frank about the reality of this situation. It's not like he said he supports such behavior. To the contrary, he said he has purchased every issue (as I have also).

Keep up the fine work, Tavy, Tank, & Co.

it is true - no matter how cheap or expensive there will be a group that will steal it. i think maybe the problem is one of exposure - there are only a certain percentage of C4D users that are into or aware of forums - probably a much higher percentage or users do not frequent them.

in V7 of C4D there used to be paper fliers in the package for services etc - perhaps you could get with maxon like that used to be and include a free issue (via number on the paper insert) of 3D Attack or even just a postcard with info and web address to help educate and notify these perhaps unknowing users.

after all every C4D user (well legal ones) has to open the package to get their CD's so you are pretty certain to be getting your information into their hands that way.

dann

xeno3d
12-13-2005, 05:38 PM
BTW, I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in this forum. :)

... just wanted to clarify that.

Sneaker
12-13-2005, 06:58 PM
If I'm not mistaken, there are a number of (older) 3D Attack Magazines available for free, in addition to a whole slew of websites to show "what Cinema can do" -- don't try to make excuses for people or justify the actions.

I don't justify piracy. This is a simple observation how people without a sense of
valuables tent to behave. Unfortunately there are a lot of them online.

Thanks, for jumping in, Jeff.

-Michael

Rich-Art
12-13-2005, 07:25 PM
I think there are a lot of kids without a paypal account or credit card.
There are others that don't do payments over the internet by default.
And of course people hunting for everything they can get for free
without even using it.
Hey, the mag looks quite cool an has nice pictures, other 3d users might
be interested what Cinema can do but not enough to spend 5 bucks on it.
Or just because someone is bored like reading magazines in a doctor's waiting room.
There are a lot of reasons, why someone won't buy a Cinema 4D specific magazine,
but would read (watch) it if it was free.

-Michael

Yes you right about that. But if every one gets it illegal, the mag won't last for long I think.
So if people don't want to spend a few bucks on this mag, they should not read it either.

I think it is a great mag, and when I think I like the content I'll buy it.

Peace,
Rich-Art. :thumbsup:

JoelOtron
12-13-2005, 07:38 PM
Interesting points here.

Piracy isnt going away unfortunately. The key is to accept that as a reality and possibly find ways to adapt to the situation. Being outraged--though understanndable, wont stop it from happenning. Dan had a good idea there as did ooo---though who knows how realistic that would be---would require a deal of some kind with Maxon. Although thousands of people may have found a way to obtain a pirated version, there are at least hundreds of other legit c4d users who may not know 3dattack exists at all. Not that you guys arent doing a great job getting exposure---just an observation.

Printed material is more difficult to pirate--reqires more effort. Digital media on the other hand is very easy to spread across the internet. It could very well be that whatever # are being pirated might just be an unpreventable loss. I wonder how other online mag subscriptions handle this kind of thing.

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