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dOMINUSMess
11-23-2005, 03:57 PM
Hi, I've noticed when mirroring a rig (using the Mirror button in Setup and/or the " / " key) that sometimes there are nulls or hierarchies mirrord twice ?
As you can see in the first picture, a Null has been mirrored twice , and in the second, a bone has been added in the hierarchy that I started out with ???
(_RT is the original and _LTis the mirror.)
I have no idea why this happens.

I can imagine that on a complex rig this would make cleanup very difficult.
Or am I doing something wrong?
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http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/mirror.JPG
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http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/mirror2.JPG

dOMINUSMess
11-24-2005, 06:33 AM
Could anyone confirm if this is a bug or if it's something else ?
Or has no one else ever encountered this ?

hobermann
11-24-2005, 07:50 AM
That's really weird, man. I've never seen that happen before. Does it happen all the time or just sometimes?

The only advice I could offer is to delete your config file at C:\Documents and Settings\[YOUR USER]\Local Settings\Temp\messiah\messiah4.cfg. At other times when people had freaky weirdness happening deleting their config has helped. But nope, never seen nor heard of that particular problem.

Try posing a set of 1 2 3 steps to make it happen and we'll see if anyone can replicate your issue.


EDIT:
Happy turkey day!

EDIT 2:
Who the heck is hobermann? Methinks the commercial software running this board is buggy and poorly maintained!

Rich

dOMINUSMess
11-24-2005, 11:46 AM
Thanks for the reply hobermann :thumbsup: .
You saying it has never happened to you, assures me that this behaviour is not common.
To me, it has happened more than once and in different scenes.

I've uploaded the scene file ( http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/dominus.zip (http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/dominus.zip) ) and the object and I would appreciate it if someone could verify this.
It's the UNmirrored hierarchy, so the steps to be taken are the following:

1 mirror ClaVicle_RT
2 mirror IKhand_RT
3 mirror Leg_RT
4 mirror IK_Foot-RT

1) When mirroring Clavicle_RT , the Null IKhand_RT which does not belong to the Clavicle_RT hierarchy, also gets mirrored but without it's children.

2 )When then mirroring IKhand_RT, that hierarchy gets mirrord OK. So now there are 3 IKhand_RT nulls, the one with no children from step 1 too many.

3) When then mirroring Leg_RT, the IKankle_RT bone in the IK_Foot_RT hierarchy gets DUPLICATED ???

4) When then mirroring IK_Foot_RT, there are TWO IK_ankle_RT bones and TWO in the mirrored hierarchy (which is as expected because in the previous step the bone got duplicated.).

My guess is that it has to do something with the nulls. But I do'nt know how or why.

I'm wondering if this is a bug of some sort.

I'm gonna try what you've aid about the config file and see if that changes anything.

Thanks...

dOMINUSMess
11-24-2005, 12:23 PM
Well, I've deleted the config file, started messiah, loaded the scene where the rig is unmirrored, mirrored the hierarchies as in steps 1 to 4 explained above, and the same thing happened ???

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http://users.skynet.be/dominus/nonwebpics/mirror4.JPG

maks
11-24-2005, 12:33 PM
That's not a bug. Actually it's a "feature" that also duplicates the IK goal of any IK driven bone/item when you duplicate it or mirror it. The same actually goes for muscle bone targets. It can be useful in some cases, but also confusing like in your case. Just delete the duplicated goals if you don't need them, and possibly reorient the IK driven objects/muscles to the correct goal.

dOMINUSMess
11-24-2005, 12:42 PM
maks posted: That's not a bug. Actually it's a "feature" that also duplicates the IK goal of any IK driven bone/item when you duplicate it or mirror it. The same actually goes for muscle bone targets. It can be useful in some cases, but also confusing like in your case. Just delete the duplicated goals if you don't need them, and possibly reorient the IK driven objects/muscles to the correct goal.
Aah ! Good to know that !
Thanks a million maks :thumbsup: !
Now I can rest assured that I'm not crazy :D .

dOMINUSMess
11-24-2005, 04:16 PM
With the help of maks and by closely investigating all the stuff involved (IK, Mirroring, ...)
I finally understand it I guess.

I was doing Joe Cosman's rigging 1 tutorials, and he starts out by setting up IK via the Inverse Kinematics block in Animate mode where you also have to specify a Goal for the bone which calculates the IK.
Later on though, he changes that by using expressions for setting up IK, and I did not set the Goal in the Inverse Kinematics block to "None".

So when mirroring, the IK_hand_goal (a Null) got mirrored and the IK_ankle_goal (a Bone) got duplicated.

When I set the Goal-pulldown in the Inverse Kinematics block to "None", then that does not happen!

Thanks again maks :bounce: !

maks
11-25-2005, 10:41 AM
You're welcome :)
You're right, this doesn't happen when using the IK expression, forgot to mention that. Actually I always use the IK expressions instead of the IK tab, so this problem only happens to me when duplicating/mirroring muscle bones.

stooch
11-26-2005, 12:52 AM
hmm maybe these duplicated bones should be automatically renamed as goals?

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