particles and viewports?

[johnny_riptide]

Try reducing the number of particles visible in the viewport down to like 15%.

[cad3dfx]

yeah.. kinda thought it would be something like that,
right infront of me but... might as well be invisible because
I wasn't looking there. Thanks -

So is that basically the work around or standard operating
procedure when it come to particles or do you guys run
a dynamic and save the solution - shit I don't know, I'm just
making things up now - but that would seem like the thing to do.

Thanks
cad3dfx

[CapnPanic]

ah, welcome to particles in 3dsmax! they are going to be slow pretty much no matter what :shrug: the only ways to avoid the slow down are to either hide the particle systems or keep the % that is visible in the viewports very low... there doesn't seem to be any real trick to making max particles run faster... they are sort of a legacy feature that hasn't really been touched/tweaked for a few versions and therefore still kinda suck, but can get the job done if needed. good luck

[TapioKa]

I disagree. Particles are going to be slow in any app with varying degrees of difference. the only thing about max particles is that they somewhat limited in what they can do.

I always run low particle counts to test out what I'm doing, up it for a few render tests to make sure that they look right. If things go too slow, lower the settings to make it interactive again, then at render time just set the settings you really want.

I also do some tests with some of the spacewarps off, to see what each is doing to the total solution. Some deflectors can definitely slow things down.

I wish pts cache worked with particle systems though.

Particles is definitely something that Discreet should improve. Maya's particle systems are really nice.

[cad3dfx]

thanks guys,

I thought for sure I was missing something but
I guess thats the work flow with particles for now, huh.
It seems like there should be a better way by now.

thanks again
cad3dfx

[amckay]

Maya's particles aren't that great guys.. they have a few nice things like conserve which is something I've been hoping max would do. But essentially Maya's particles are fairly basic, the reason they're so great is because you can write code into them to control them. Seems to be the thing about maya, it doesn't have vol select or any cool modifiers or features Max does, oh.. but you can do them.. you just need to write the bloody things yourself..

Although that's a great thing I wish Max had, being able to access anything via code. That's why a lot of times I tend to have to use maya for film work when it comes to complex particle work since you can't implement expressions to control positions of particles within max. Although event driven particles do allow you to get a bit more control out of your particles.

Thinking particles is heading in the right direction, but it's funcionality and interface/interactivity leaves a lot to be desired.

Allan

[BrandonD]

Houdini! And yes, I agree that Maya particles are overrated. The emitters and viewport feedback are very impressive, but the archaic expression-driven system and lack of decent polygon support are a major pain.

But back to MAX particles, yes, they are so ridiculously outdated (most space warps as well). 3rd party tools like Particle Studio and Thinking Particles fill the gap fairly well. The latter giving a talented user near Houdini-POP capabilities. With that off my shoulder I have to admit that I still almost exclusively rely on the default particles. In fact, in the last year and a half I've worked on several feature films doing pretty complex particle stuff using just the default particles (and some experienced voodoo). They are limited but reliable. Some suggestions I might add:

- using the Percentage of Particles value actually reduces the particles not only being calculated but also displayed. This both good and bad, but mostly good ;) So if you have complex interaction, try reducing your displayed percentage and it should also speed up interaction and not just feedback and viewport speed.

- Avoid DirectX when working with particles. They have a habit of rendering in the viewports with square artifacts. OpenGL is good but you cannot reduce the size of particles when displayed as Dots (bad for large clumpy particle systems). Software Z-buffer tends to be more effecient in those cases AND will display Dots as single pixels.

- Use the MaxScript Listener! When I work with several particle systems (in fact, on shot in my last project had 48 PArrays and SuperSprays) it's a MAJOR time saver to use the Listener and simple, one-line MAXScript commands to change parameters among particle systems. Here are some common ones:

Start by selecting a handful of particle systems. Then type:

$.emitter_start = 30
<i>this sets all selected particles to start emitting at frame 30</i>

$.life = 200
<i>now all selected particles will have a life of 200 frames</i>

Great, but now what if you have several different particle systems that you want to change the size of the particles relative to their current size? For example, two SuperSprays with a size of 3 and a PArray with a size of 10.

$.size = 20
<i>if you do this all selected particles will have a Size of 20. Instead try this:</i>

$.size *= 2
<i>this will multiply the current Size value of each particle system by 2. You can also do add/subtract/divide, etc.</i>

Something also really handy is the random seed parameter. Say you clone your SuperSpray 10 times and now want each to have a different Seed. You could do this:

$.seed = 19521
<i>but now they will ALL have that Seed value</i>

So instead why not randomize the value? But to make that work you need to create a random number for each selected particle system. Piece of cake. Open a new MaxScript window and make a quick self-contained FOR loop.

for i in selection do
(
r = random 0 99999
i.seed = r
)

Now select the particle systems and run the script. Bing! They should all have different Seed values between 0 and 99999. The trick is to define the seed value (the variable r in this case) inside the loop and not outside, so that it changes each time its applied to an object in the selection. Of course you wouldn't want to do this all the time, so you make a simple macroScript of it and put it in a toolbar or somewhere else handy.

This kind of stuff will grow on you after a while and next thing you know you'll have an entire special particle menu with things like:

RandomSeed
ShowDots
ShowMesh
View10%
View50%
HideEmitter



Man, I feel like I'm giving away all my hard-earned secrets. Now go out and make cool stuff with 5 year-old particles!

[amckay]

Yeah I gotta agree with Brandon, the maxscript listener is essential when dealing with particles. Especially when you have maybe 10 different particle systems that are all very similiar (such as multiple particle systems emitting smoke from objects in a scene ect). You can easily change the viewpercent values on the fly to view 10% or 100% ect. plus the viewtype from mesh to dots and ticks as well as speed, size, and everything else. Without that it really gets tedious and with particles where they're very much an artform where it's tweak and play, tweak and play, you really want to be able to adjust the values in one go oposed to having to juggle several emitters at once.

Although I have to say I'm very lazy these days and usually tend to hide my UI and use the listener just as much as my command panel to change settings a lot of the time :)

Allan

[gaggle]

Great jumpin' gemini! :love:, thank you Brandon, most kind tips and insights.
Thrice I bestow upon thee hoorayfication.

Hooray.
Hooray.
Hooray.

:rolleyes:

[Darknon]

Make at preview to see how it looks

[TapioKa]

Brandon,

Thanks for the maxscript tips! That is so helpful and intuitive!

Thanks again for your insight!

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