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Margie
11-22-2005, 07:28 PM
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/skeletstudie.jpg

More sketches to come...some I did from Rebecca's threads (and never posted, shame on me!), some from Andrew Loomis, some from references I found on the web.

Margie
11-22-2005, 07:40 PM
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/armstudie01.png

Study of arm muscles after Loomis (probably figure drawing for all it's worth)
Still haven't figured out how the muscles of the upper arm run, never mind all those tendons in the lower arm, or how the ulna and radius twist for that matter. Still, it helped me a great deal to study these, I'll never draw an arm without a deltoid again :)

Rebeccak
11-22-2005, 07:40 PM
Margie,

Heya, good to see you start a new thread! :) May I have your permission to change the name of your thread to "Anatomy Thread of Margie"? This makes it easier for me to keep things organized / for people to search for individual Anatomy Threads. :)

Looking forward to seeing your work! :)

Stole a quick peek at your piece ~ nice work, and very funny comments!!

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Margie
11-22-2005, 07:49 PM
Rebecca, sure, no problem changing the thread name!

Here's another one from the Loomis books

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/armstudy03.png

Rebeccak
11-22-2005, 08:06 PM
Done, thanks! :)

Margie
11-22-2005, 08:12 PM
This one I made when I was halfway through "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" and was surprised as it turned out how I intended. The girl is from a photo reference (not traced, but using the guidelines). I liked her expression of defiance and began imagining a story around it. I intend to make a painting from this.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/PaintThis13b.png

detail:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/detail.png

Rebeccak
11-22-2005, 08:15 PM
Nice! These are nicely reminiscent of 1950's style illustrations...nice stuff!! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Margie
11-22-2005, 08:41 PM
This is were my avatar came from: copy of a drawing by Dutch author/artist Jan Veth, depicting a woman and child in 19th century Haarlem. She's carrying a pan of soup under her apron.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/finishedwork.jpg

Margie
11-22-2005, 08:52 PM
Mastercopy of Dürer

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/DurerHandsinPrayer.jpg

Rebeccak
11-22-2005, 08:53 PM
Nice master copy! When was that done? :)

Cheers,

~Rk

Margie
11-22-2005, 09:03 PM
The Jan Veth copy? October 6th 2005, with a piece of software that has an awesome paint engine, but is also dreadfully unstable (Twisted Brush, REALLY nice soft watercolors).

Margie
11-22-2005, 09:09 PM
Skull from one of Rebecca's workshops which I never posted. Unfinished and in need of some dental work.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/rebecca3skull1.jpg

Rebeccak
11-22-2005, 09:18 PM
Wow, Margie! It's so cool to find out that you were following the thread when I didn't know about it! :) How cool that you've posted it now! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Margie
11-22-2005, 09:27 PM
From anatomy thread 001

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/figuurstudie160805.jpg

Rebeccak
11-22-2005, 09:42 PM
Another secret following of the Anatomy Forum! :) Happy to see your work, Margie! :)

I'll definitely try to post something more constructive later, when I can take a better look at your work. :)

Cheers,

~Rk

Margie
11-22-2005, 09:45 PM
From a photo ref of Hong Ly's website.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/HongLi.jpg

Margie
12-03-2005, 09:33 PM
Something quite funny happened today. On monday, December 5th, it's "Sinterklaas" in the Netherlands. Sinterklaas is curious mix between a Turkish bishop and good ol' Santa Claus from the North Pole. The festival is mostly for little children and on that day, in the early evening, they get presents and candy.

But teens still like to celebrate it too. The fun part for them is now that they can give presents instead of being only on the receiving end. These present usually get wrapped up in very creative ways, and in the case of my daughters, are not always very pleasant to unwrap (but that's the fun part!) and are accompanied by poems, pointing out the perculiarities of the person receiving the present.

In most Dutch families, people make a list of presents they would like to receive and then draw lots and exchange lists. Not in our family. Everybody buys presents for everybody and half of the fun is trying to figure out what each family member would like to have.

My daughters have of course noticed I spend a great deal of time on the anatomy forum, heard me rant that I'm no good at all with bones and muscles and also heard me mumble something about wanting to do an oilpainting of one of the reference photo's.

Today was shopping day. More fun, because you have to somehow manage to buy presents without the rest of the family noticing you are doing it. While we were in town, we passed THE art supplies shop and I was about to enter the shop, saying that I wanted to buy a canvas for that oilpainting (and sneek in a present for my daughters), when my youngest daughter created a diversion. To me a signal my eldest was up to something ( a canvas perhaps?), so I took the bait and wondered with glee how on earth she was going to hide a 60 by 80 centimeter canvas. They had casually quizzed me on how large I thought this painting was going to be.

We agreed to meet at 5 at the expressobar. Patricia, my eldest, had no visible canvas. When we got home, suddenly the both of them rushed out again, saying they had forgot to buy something for a friend. 15 minutes later they returned. I pretended to be very busy cooking and not to see the large rectanglar, thin packet they where trying to hide, but I saw anyway... While they manoeuvered the thing upstairs, something dropped from Patricia's handbag. A book. Maybe I should have pretended I didn't see that either, but ah... I guess I'm a little curious. I picked up the book at the same moment the ladies came rushing downstairs again.

It was Anatomy and Figure Drawing and Drawing the Human Head by Louis Gordon.

"Nice book, can't recall having seen it in this house before" I said.

I half expected a fib to explain what this book was doing there, only to find it wrapped in some cotuonwool drenched in treacle on December 5. But no, they had run out of excuses and confessed that this was their present for me.

And so now I have run out of excuses too. After all this, I can't really NOT do anatomy drawings and work from the book front to back. The price tag was still on it, it cost them 15 euro, a lot of money for them. Isn't that just the sweetest thing of them to be so supportive of my artistic endeavours?

I like the book a lot. I like the delicate and clear drawings and I couldn't resist starting on the first drawing right away. It's still a WIP, and this is what ot looks like after an hour (or two).

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/skull.jpg

Rebeccak
12-03-2005, 09:43 PM
Margie,

That is just the sweetest and most touching story...thank you for sharing it with all of us! :)
It sounds as though with your lovely family, you have a really charmed life, and it is fantastic to hear a bit about it! :) I seriously have a little water in my eye after reading this for the second time...

My daughters have of course noticed I spend a great deal of time on the anatomy forum, heard me rant that I'm no good at all with bones and muscles and also heard me mumble something about wanting to do an oilpainting of one of the reference photo's.
This made me lol! :)

You also have a great start on your drawing ~ and I really look forward to seeing what your next update will be. :)

Happy Sinterklaas! :)

Here is some yummy pepernoten! :)

http://www.chrisheijmans.nl/fotolog/images/pepernoten.jpg


Cheers,

~Rebeccak

pushav
12-03-2005, 10:05 PM
:applause:
Is this the same margie from the Laborganika forums?

Nice work!
Keep it up.

Margie
12-03-2005, 10:10 PM
Aww...thanks for the pepernoten! :) They are my most favorite "Sinterklaas" treat.
I didn't mention them, because I'm not sure if these Dutch treats are known in the rest of the world. But then again, if the Dutch emigrate, it's guaranteed they bring along the pepernoten, oliebollen (doughnutty things eaten at new years' eve) and erwtensoep (peasoup).

Margie
12-03-2005, 10:13 PM
:applause:
Is this the same margie from the Laborganika forums?


Yup!


Nice work!
Keep it up.

Thanks! Well, I'll have to, don't I? Can't disappoint my girls. :)

Rebeccak
12-03-2005, 10:17 PM
Margie,

If it weren't for CGTalk, pepernoten would have remained forever unknown to me. :) However, since joining up, I've been fortunate enough to have corresponded with cool people from nearly everywhere on the planet, including this wacky guy named Marlon/Art2 who is responsible for my hilarious avatar which you see at left. :) He introduced us to pepernoten, so he deserves credit for expanding my knowledge of international treats and holidays. :)

Speaking of shopping, I need to get my buns in gear for Christmas, which is fast approaching...I'm horrid at shopping, I always wait until the day before Christmas Eve, so this year I vow to be better! :D

Have a great one! :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Margie
12-07-2005, 06:06 PM
Update: Well, I got my canvas for Sinterklaas, after the "empty box" surprise. Explanation:

The empty box surprise:

The empty box surprise is.... an empty box, with a note sending the receiver to some place in the house (usually something obnoxious like the gardenshed), to find the REAL present. Of course, once there, you find.... an empty box containing a note, sending you off to the closet under the stairs, only to find...an empty box sending you to the attic...only to find....etc.
The final note leads back to the living room. Your family tells you that while you were gone chasing presents, Sinterklaas has come and gone and left the present....in the place were you were previously sitting, together with some pepernoten strewn all over the place.

The real surprise was a present I didn't find out about beforehand. I got a lovely sketchbook with a heavy grade Ingres paper from Marijke (pronounced Ma-ray-kuh), my youngest daughter and a splendid set of Rembrandt oilpaints from the man of the house.

I'm much better with traditional media (more and longer practise) and made two pencil drawings in my new sketchbook, but I can't show them because we haven't got a scanner at this monent. I was going to get one, but everytime I try, someone is doing his or her best to stop me. Think they're up to something for Christmas?

Margie
12-09-2005, 04:22 PM
Copy of a study for Hylas and the Nymphs by J.W. Waterhouse.

Original:

http://www.jwwaterhouse.com/view.cfm?recordid=17

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/waterhouse.jpg

Rebeccak
12-09-2005, 05:34 PM
Margie,

I really, really like this copy! :applause: What medium did you use? :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Margie
12-09-2005, 06:50 PM
Rebecca, thanks! It's digital. I don't know if photoshop has this, but Paintshop Pro also has a paint engine immitating traditional media. The oils are lousy, but the chalks and pencils are pretty good.

What I do is start a sketch on a traditional media layer with coloured pencils/chalks/pastels.

Then I add a raster(bitmap) layer, which gives me the standard digital tools and block in the values at low opacity with airbrush and a custom brush I made with a lot of grey values (very transparent).

Then I add another traditional media layer and work out the details and textures.

I'm really pleased to hear you like it. This copy was sparked by something I read about Picasso. As you undoubtely know, the man could draw like a god. He said he could draw like Raphael when he was 8 (!) and said that it is a very good idea to do as many copies as you can of an artist one likes best, because that will teach you the visual language of that artist and once understood, becomes part of your own style.

I admire many, many artists, but for myself, I would like to have a style which is close (but not quite the same) to a mix of Waterhouse, Bougereau, Degas, Alan Lee and a Dutch painter and graphic artist Anton Pieck (http://www.antonpieckclub.demon.nl/werken.htm)
Ermm...yes, very romantic and mythical.
I'm not going to argue with Picasso and took his advice. I noticed I'm very much more motivated and concentrated when I copy one of these favourites of mine.

Working on Waterhous' "Mermaid" right now. :)

Rebeccak
12-09-2005, 06:55 PM
Margie,

Sounds like a great approach! I checked out the artist you linked, and his work is quite beautiful ~ I can see why you admire him. :) Thanks also for describing your process, that's very helpful! Looking forward to seeing your next study. :)

Cheers,

~Rebeccak

Margie
12-10-2005, 07:23 PM
Some anatomical studies from Louise Gordon's book

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/anatomuestudie01.jpg


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/anatomuestudie02.jpg

Rebeccak
12-10-2005, 07:29 PM
Oh, really nice! That's definitely her style! Good to see these! :wip:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Margie
12-12-2005, 07:36 PM
Thought I'd show the halfway-stage :wip: I described above. Before I begin the shading with black/white and 3 greys, I greyscale the reference and then reduce the levels to 5.

Copy from A Mermaid by J.W. Waterhouse.

Original:
http://www.johnwilliamwaterhouse.com/paintings/painting1391.aspx

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/mermaidwh.jpg

Rebeccak
12-12-2005, 07:40 PM
Margie,

Great to see the process! The more WIP, the better! :thumbsup:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Margie
12-13-2005, 07:19 PM
I don't know what I was doing yesterday, but when I came back to the sketch today, it seemed all wrong to me.
It's difficult for me to get even the tilt and size of the head right on such a small scale and I often have this problem that the figure itself is OK, but the size of the head and the tilt is wrong.

So I started again, this time with a close crop of the head only. This looks better, but it's also 600 x 800 original size. Add the figure to that and I end up with something ridiculously large and that makes the program hopelessly sluggish. :cry: Arrrgghhh... anyone any ideas how to solve this?



http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/detailmermaid.jpg

Rebeccak
12-13-2005, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by Margie: This looks better, but it's also 600 x 800 original size. Add the figure to that and I end up with something ridiculously large and that makes the program hopelessly sluggish. :cry: Arrrgghhh... anyone any ideas how to solve this?
Margie, it depends on how much RAM you have and what program you are using ~ I'm sorry, are you using Painter? Unfortunately, Painter really chugs on large image files unless you have enough RAM. Spirit Dreamer has more experience with Painter than I, you might want to PM him, or pose the same question on the OFDW 008 and / or 009, where he's most likely to see it. :) I think PM'ing might be the route to go, though. ;)

Also, you may want to work at a small resolution initially, and then blow the image up, and refine from there. Frequently digital artists work at 25% zoomed out size anyway, the better to see the picture as a whole. I guess start small, scale up, then work in sections if it's not possible to add RAM?

EDIT: By the way, you're doing a fantastic job with the Beginner's Workshop! :applause:

Cheers, :)

~Rebeccak

Margie
12-13-2005, 08:21 PM
Rebecca I use Paintshop Pro, but I reckon it's hogging memory just as much as Painter. Adding more RAM makes perfect sense. I have 512 Mb (don't laugh, guys, don't laugh) , but when I see the file size, that's not nearly enough.

Upgrading is no problem, I can go to 2 Gb.

Thanks for the help! :)

Rebeccak
12-14-2005, 12:09 AM
Margie,

Sounds good! No prob. :)

Margie
12-14-2005, 12:16 PM
Plugged in another 512 Mb this morning. Major difference! Did a quick oil sketch of another
great pose from Ben Miller (from D.A.) original size 1200 x 1600 with no noticable delay.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/ben01.jpg

justmeina
12-16-2005, 05:32 PM
Great to see that you made use of that image, Margie! Thanks!!

Margie
12-16-2005, 07:26 PM
It's me who owes YOU thanks! It's not easy to find great models. I intended to drop you a note about posting this sketch, but then.... (life got in the way and all the sorry excuses :blush: ).

justmeina
12-19-2005, 03:07 AM
It's me who owes YOU thanks! It's not easy to find great models. I intended to drop you a note about posting this sketch, but then.... (life got in the way and all the sorry excuses :blush: ).No worries. I was tickled to happen in and find it here. Being useful and helpful is certainly my goal as a model.

Rebeccak
12-19-2005, 03:26 AM
Deleted post :)

Rebeccak
12-19-2005, 03:58 AM
Deleted post :)

Margie
12-19-2005, 01:30 PM
Rebecca, thanks for the helpful examples! You're absolutely right about value being more important than color (hue). I've seen your explanation some time ago and started working accordingly, as you can see in the examples before I started with the Waterhouse drawings and this painting.

However, there is a slight problem with this approach if the goal is to produce a painting that has a (neo)classical look, like - say - Carravaggio, Frans Hals or Waterhouse for that matter. I've tried to produce such digital paintings with a black/midgrey/white grisaille and failed. It looks too metallic, too digital. So I turned to the traditional oil painters for advice.

I know for a fact that Hals (and Rubens!) did his underpaintings in the way Caravaggio did, with a slight difference: for the ground he used a mix of ivory black- which is not quite black but very dark brown/lead (flake) white, which is not true white but a very pale cream and a spot of burnt sienna, giving the mix a pinkish tone which is so often found in Baroque underpaintings. The grisaille was then painted with midrange greys, never going beyond midgrey. The reason is simple if you have ever painted in oil: coloured glazings darken the painting, not to mention that a single glazing over a very dark grey has no effect whatsoever.


Caravaggio painted with only three or four pigments over such a low keyed grisaille! Yet his painting have an extraordinairy brilliance and livelyness.
Here is a beautiful workshop (oil) exploring this way of painting, hosted by an oilpainter with a mileage of 20,30 years or so.

http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306458

Recently oil painters have begun to explore the digital oil paints and while there is still a lot of discussing and experimenting, it appears that digital "oilpaint" behaves indeed in a somewhat similar way to real oilpaint, but not quite. (They're still looking for the turpentine and linseed, lol!, but hey! it dries a LOT faster)

The smooth blending you did is unsuited for an digital imitation of a traditional oilpainting. Even with carefull blending, there is still a lot of variety in the shades of grey in an oilpainting. One of the reasons why I think digital paintings often look slightly metallic and/or hyperrealistic, is because of this smooth blending. It doesn't exsist in traditional art. So I'd like to try it the way as described in the workshop above blendng with brush strokes only, and mixing the paint in the process. This is just as tedious and time consuming as in real oil (for real fun an a guaranteed headache: try copying a Van Gogh or Seurat).

This is not to say that your method is wrong. It isn't, but it's not the right one for what I'm trying to achieve (a painting in the Waterhouse style, who probably also used the Caravaggio method, certainly in his early work).

As for the color: yes, you're right, I should stick to greyscale for the moment, but have a heart. We're in the dark, grey, rainy days before Christmas and I am afraid if I don't do a little colour now and then, I'll go berserk and spam the entire board with bright Chrismassy thingies. (http://photobucket.com/albums/c99/MdeBrie/?action=view&current=kerststukjefinwc.jpg):twisted:

Rebeccak
12-19-2005, 04:37 PM
Deleted post :)

SpiritDreamer
12-20-2005, 12:27 PM
Hi
Margie...
Just stopped by to say how much I like the mermaid painting your working on.
You really captured a nice feeling there... BEAUTIFUL FACE...The whole figure really.
Cant't wait to see how you paint it... keep this version, whatever way you go, it's
really nice the way it is.
Like the way your trying to do the same techniques in painting, that Caravaggio and
a few of the other Masters used, i've been trying the same techniques and aproach
myself.
Will be great if it can be pulled off useing this new medium of our age...digital....
Anyway just wanted to say I am really enjoying your thread here, some really nice
things happening in it.
If I can be of any help in your efforts at recreating OLD MASTER painting techniques
digitally, let me know, and vice versa...I think we're all in the same boat here, trying
to create masterpieces, with tried and proven techniques from the past, while useing
this new digital medium that's been thrust upon us...
Oh, and excuse my spelling here, you know howI am with words Builderberge...LOL..;)

Take Care
Glenn

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