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View Full Version : Flowline, an amazing Fluid Simulation tool for Max and Maya by Scanline.


Strob
11-21-2005, 06:42 PM
http://www.flowlines.info/rndreel.html

SheepFactory
11-21-2005, 06:46 PM
Wow those example movies were very impressive!

Pin_pal
11-21-2005, 07:00 PM
Wow! First product I've seen that is up to (and surpasses) RealFlow quality. I wonder how easy it is to use?

ThomasMahler
11-21-2005, 07:16 PM
Best cg water I've evern seen. Very, very impressive.

Anyone who used it yet?

Hawke
11-21-2005, 07:19 PM
Stunning video....I'm guessing if I have to ask how much it is I can't afford it :sad:

P_T
11-21-2005, 07:25 PM
From the shark video, could this product be used in that new C. Megalodon prehistoric shark movie titled "MEG" comin out next year? I gotta say the water simulation, bubbles, wave etc are very impressive.

smoothoperator
11-21-2005, 07:29 PM
holly molly. Best I've seen. That's pretty impressive. I wonder though how user friendly it is, how versatile to use and how long to render. That's important too.

SheepFactory
11-21-2005, 08:04 PM
I have not seen any pricing info or anything else other then the "MPC licensed Flowline" , does that mean its propretiary to MPC now?

BillSpradlin
11-21-2005, 09:44 PM
I have not seen any pricing info or anything else other then the "MPC licensed Flowline" , does that mean its propretiary to MPC now?

More than likely it just means they are using it.

KolbyJukes
11-21-2005, 09:47 PM
From the shark video, could this product be used in that new C. Megalodon prehistoric shark movie titled "MEG" comin out next year? =

I was wondering that myself.

Steve Green
11-21-2005, 09:59 PM
Great to see it moving - there were some stills from the Meg animation posted on a vray-related site.

I'm not sure how it all works, when stills of the Meg sequence were posted, I thought Thinking Particles was mentioned, so I'm not sure how much of the spray in that was TP and how much was Flowline.

It'd be interesting to see pricing - For comparison Realflow starts at $1200 with Glu3D at 495 Euros. I'd imagine it would be $1500+ when you consider Syflex is $2200.

I wonder how Flood is coming along?

- Steve

Jozvex
11-21-2005, 10:20 PM
Yeah I'd have to say it's the best I've seen too! Very detailed!

:surprised

Bonedaddy
11-21-2005, 10:36 PM
Are they planning on making it available for retail? At last check, such plans were murky.

Per-Anders
11-21-2005, 10:38 PM
Very impressive and nice looking effects, some of the best I've seen.

Actually to me the only place it was let down a little were perhaps the shark shots, not so much underwater, but when it bursts out of the water it looks like it's running a very low res fluid sim on it and that all the rest is a more standard particle system, it has a bit of a harsh break between the fluid flowing and the seperate particles (which don't look quite as convincing myaybe due to their shape or regularity?), on the other hand it's only there for a very short time and not that noticeable if you're not frame by framing it :D.

ajsfuxor
11-21-2005, 10:47 PM
WOW! Some of the shots looks quite photoreal, especially the underwater scenes. Looks alot less "goopy" than real flow. Would love to play with that!

Hazdaz
11-22-2005, 04:42 AM
Few things really get me excited
.... but that video made me go:
WOW! Very impressive.

supergrover
11-22-2005, 10:46 AM
The finished shots of the shark are amazing but I have to say that a lot of the simpler tests looked a little unconvincing to me. I have been using Realflow for a couple of years and I don't think they should be too worried but competition can only be a good thing for the end users.

halo
11-22-2005, 01:05 PM
just gobsmaking.

now this is the sort of thing that cgtalk should be writing articles about...

AJ
11-22-2005, 01:10 PM
I haven't been this gobsmacked since... Well, since I was smacked in the gob.

:eek:

E D G E C R A F T
11-22-2005, 01:21 PM
Very, very nice. Hope this becomes public and retails at an affordable price point.

http://www.scanline.de/

in the gallery section, there' something about 'Meg', so it looks like the shots from the flowline reel are from a pitch.

http://www.scanline.de/_r_d/R_D.htm

RockinAkin
11-22-2005, 05:27 PM
Wow... thats some hella impressive fluids.
Hope it comes out for max soon, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and calculates/renders fast.

DuttyFoot
11-22-2005, 05:31 PM
that is freaking awesome. the megalodon is a giant shark, so i guess thats what they are depicting in these shots with the giant shark in the water. man, the fluid system is the best i have ever seen. one more thing, the link http://www.flowlines.info/rndreel.html
dosen't work for me. is there another link perhaps...thank you

Steve Green
11-22-2005, 05:37 PM
You could try this

http://84.16.234.211/download/movie/rnd.mov

- Steve

P_T
11-22-2005, 05:39 PM
that is freaking awesome. the megalodon is a giant shark, so i guess thats what they are depicting in these shots with the giant shark in the water. man, the fluid system is the best i have ever seen.

Yup, a prehistoric 60 footer shark which movie is gonna be released sometime in 2006. If the VFX in the movie gonna be better or at least as good as that, it's gonna be a fan-frickin-tastic eyecandy of a movie. Try the book it's based on by the same name "Meg" by Steve Alten.

DuttyFoot
11-22-2005, 05:45 PM
man, you fellas respond so quick....lol
i will definately check that book out.
man that link works, and that is just some awesome stuff

JohnnyRandom
11-22-2005, 07:55 PM
Looks sweet...

FINALLY someone took air into account when designing a fluid dynamics sim. The whole reason realflow and glu3d look fake is no bubbles or other interaction with air. Seems I made this suggestion to Next Limit and 3dAliens like years ago and well nothing ever came of it...:(

Be nice to see this available in the near future:)

leuey
11-22-2005, 08:39 PM
read 'Meg' a few years ago. stupid book IMO - but hey, everybody loves a good shark attack. Love the fluids, want them, want them now.

-Greg

DuttyFoot
11-22-2005, 09:00 PM
i guess if its going to be for sale the will eventually have it on there site.

thethule
11-23-2005, 12:10 AM
Holy Jebus! That is the most impressive thing i have seen this year. Wow! Au Revoir Realflow!



Marc

kiaran
11-23-2005, 01:15 AM
Quite simply the best fluid animations I've ever seen. At times, it looked photorealistic.

Would it be too much to ask for a Maya plugin from these guys?

FloydBishop
11-23-2005, 02:03 AM
The results are impressive, but it would also be nice to know how easy it is to get results with, simulation times, etc. I was most impressed with the underwater stuff.

Hazdaz
11-23-2005, 03:09 AM
And what kind of analysis/render time it took?? One thing for something that impressive to take a few CPU-years to render and be unusable on anything but ultra-top of the line hardware.... another thing completely to be feasable to do that in a timely manner. on a regular midline workstation.

JupiterSunset
11-23-2005, 05:03 AM
if I'm not completely mistaken the megalodon thing is this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376753/

megalodon was the production title, and shortly before the release it was dubbed to some mass-marketing-compatible name... :rolleyes:

amazing piece of software, they even showed the crushing wave shot a bit longer on the fmx in stuttgart, and it looked beautiful!

P_T
11-23-2005, 09:47 AM
nah dude, it's this one http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450459/

It's always been called "MEG". The book managed to get my sister hooked eventhough she doesn't read for fun, so unless they screw this movie up, it should be a good popcorn fun monster flick you can take a girl to watch with. :)

back on topic, just watched the demo again but now I noticed in "the house on fire" scene, it doesn't look that good, like something's off with the fire and smoke. :shrug:

gent_k
11-23-2005, 10:13 AM
Here's a few months old article related to this thing, if you haven't read it:

"Fluid Dynamics: A Look at Two Giants
Peter Plantec interviews Stanford professor Ron Fedkiw and Scanline Production GmbH head Stephan Trojansky about their advances in fluid dynamics."

http://vfxworld.com/?atype=articles&id=2597

playmesumch00ns
11-23-2005, 10:59 AM
The results are impressive, but it would also be nice to know how easy it is to get results with, simulation times, etc. I was most impressed with the underwater stuff.

And what kind of analysis/render time it took?? One thing for something that impressive to take a few CPU-years to render and be unusable on anything but ultra-top of the line hardware.... another thing completely to be feasable to do that in a timely manner. on a regular midline workstation.

comments removed.

sam_72
11-23-2005, 11:28 AM
very nice work, but many people talk about scanline is getting full support of cebas with: thinking particles, pyrocluster and sometime finalrender. (vray too)
and this is the reason why we dont see any software screenshoots.
the render time for 2k frame is about 10hours. (1 pass)

i hope this is not true... so let's see what happens and we'll have a good plugin soon :-)

Dennik
11-23-2005, 03:42 PM
The plugin looks quite realistic, although as someone mentioned, the scenes over the water are kinda low res and you can see a particle separation which looks a bit unnatural.

As for the movie Meg, it seems to me very unoriginal that they are copypasting the classic helicopter scene from Jaws. :shrug:

P_T
11-23-2005, 04:39 PM
As for the movie Meg, it seems to me very unoriginal that they are copypasting the classic helicopter scene from Jaws. :shrug:

It's either boat, ship, submarine or chopper, I don't see any other way, without those, there's nothin for the shark to attack which means no shark movie. Jet's a bit too fast for the shark to catch. :D

Besides, you got action films with car chase and shoot out in all their varieties. And while you can change how a car chase sequence is choreographed, there aren't that many ways for a shark to attack a chopper apart from makin it shoot out of the sea. Plus I don't really wanna see another indoor shark attack movie.:argh:

Anyway, I wanna hear what you think about that house on fire sequence on that demo. As I said earlier, the fire and smoke looks a bit off.

essencedesign
11-23-2005, 05:15 PM
Watching that demo just reminds me how ....um...." non fluid".....Maya fluids are :argh:

KidderD
11-23-2005, 05:25 PM
Anyway, I wanna hear what you think about that house on fire sequence on that demo. As I said earlier, the fire and smoke looks a bit off.

I don't think the shading is particular photoreal, but I think this test was more on the movement. it looks like they are attempting a raging inferno type movement of the flames, to me the flames and flame licks should be going more vertical, curling around the top window opening more. I'm going to have go out and set something ablaze to be sure though.

However, anything liquid in that demo reel was droolworthy...

rblitz7
11-23-2005, 07:06 PM
Woah thats amazing!! this was my favorite..
http://images5.theimagehosting.com/flowline.gif

albedo4800hp
11-23-2005, 07:11 PM
Here's a few months old article related to this thing, if you haven't read it:

"Fluid Dynamics: A Look at Two Giants
Peter Plantec interviews Stanford professor Ron Fedkiw and Scanline Production GmbH head Stephan Trojansky about their advances in fluid dynamics."

http://vfxworld.com/?atype=articles&id=2597

Thanks man, Fedkiw is a legend together with Jos Stam they did so much to improve fluids in CG without those two we would be years behind

JupiterSunset
11-24-2005, 01:32 AM
nah dude, it's this one http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450459/

It's always been called "MEG". The book managed to get my sister hooked eventhough she doesn't read for fun, so unless they screw this movie up, it should be a good popcorn fun monster flick you can take a girl to watch with. :)

back on topic, just watched the demo again but now I noticed in "the house on fire" scene, it doesn't look that good, like something's off with the fire and smoke. :shrug:

correct me if I'm wrong, but this megalodon thing aired last year on german television:

http://www.scanline.de/_r_d/MegalodonShow/Megalodon_rd.htm
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376753/companycredits
http://www.digitalproduction.com/animago/05_details.asp?KAT=4;3;2;34;1078&NS=1

but who on earth decided to use this "worst-case-scenario-photoshop-accident" as a teaser for Jan de Bonts new movie?
http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0450459/Ss/0450459/iid_900495.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0450459
da horror....

back on topic: the fire simulations are being done fror another german tv-movie, and if I remember right they were still into heavy r&d while those burning-house shots were produced, so don't consider them final...

the fire movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461658/
the flood movie: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461708/

P_T
11-24-2005, 02:08 AM
ah, figures why the fire quality is subpar. Maybe they shouldn't have put that fire in the demo, creates a dichotomy.

Sorry about the shark thing, I didn't really check the credits.

beaker
11-24-2005, 02:31 AM
The whole reason realflow and glu3d look fake is no bubbles or other interaction with air. Seems I made this suggestion to Next Limit and 3dAliens like years ago and well nothing ever came of it...:(Well the thing is that most bubbles and foam, splashes and other secondary reactions are simulated on top of a previously simulated water or just added as additional separate simulations that are later composited. All of which can easily be done with realflow or glu3d. Good looking flowing/splashing water is rarely the the result of a single simulation.

If this gave these results with one pass that would be cool.

TetraLynx
11-24-2005, 04:50 AM
Awesome! Normally I can tell if water is computer generated. Well....a lot of the time I can tell if it's fake but this is by far the best I've seen. Holy crap this is good!

apoc519
11-24-2005, 07:10 AM
they do mention that all the renders were done in a single pass

leuey
11-24-2005, 08:51 AM
So what's the deal? Is this software being released commercially or is this one of those things where we all go 'oh cool' and don't hear about it again for 3 years?


-Greg

christianS
11-24-2005, 09:06 AM
This reel looks realy great.

As for the shark-movie: this is not MEG ! It is a production of a german tv-station, it obviously uses scenes from the book (Shark caching helicopter), but believe me the movie is not comparable to Steve Altens book.
But when i saw the reel, i also thought it is MEG, because i am realy waiting for news about the movie.

As for the software flowline: i remeber i read something about it, but it was not called flowline back then. If i remember it correctly, they use implicit surfaces. Metaballs are one kind of imp. surfs. but i guess they don't use particles, i think they translate the math of the fluids directly into imp. surfs, withoutgoing the particles->metaballs way, that's why it looks quite different.

chris

Solothores
11-24-2005, 09:14 AM
I have sent an email to flowline, including a link to this thread, inviting them to answer some of the open questions stated here. :)

malducin
11-24-2005, 04:48 PM
As for the shark-movie: this is not MEG ! It is a production of a german tv-station,

That's what I thought, but with so many statement to the contrary I was beginning to doubt myself. I'm pretty sure Scanline was showing images of the film around SIGGRAPH 2004, and they did discuss some of their R&D at SIGGRAPH 2003 (for Check into Disaster).

beaker
11-24-2005, 08:38 PM
they do mention that all the renders were done in a single passI was talking about simulating in one pass, not rendering.

Solothores
11-24-2005, 10:57 PM
Received a response, fyi:

Hi Eric,
My name is Danielle Plantec. I'm the Flowline Show Supervisor here at
Scanline. We've received hundreds of mails in the last days, so we're
in the process of gathering all the questions and putting together an
FAQ to answer as many questions as possible. I'm also trying to answer
as many of the mails personally as I can. So you should get a mail with
the officially FAQ fairly soon and I will join the forum as soon as I
have a free moment.
Thanks for the invitation
Danielle

appppo
11-26-2005, 03:18 PM
Is this just a demo of a VFX studio for publicity?
If so, I'm gonna say "ah you guys are great....so what?"

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