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View Full Version : The Atari Generation readies itself for another war


laureato di arte
11-12-2005, 12:50 PM
an interesting article on the pending console war....
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/cd9fd730-5054-11da-bbd7-0000779e2340.html

JDex
11-12-2005, 01:17 PM
Just tells me 3 things.

More jobs.

All the console lovers will get 2 of the 3 (or a hat-trick).

I'll still prefer PC games.

laureato di arte
11-12-2005, 02:35 PM
Just tells me 3 things.

More jobs.

All the console lovers will get 2 of the 3 (or a hat-trick).

I'll still prefer PC games.


...interesting

TetraLynx
11-12-2005, 06:01 PM
I don't know that I agree with the state "games are art" in that article. I think games can have art in them or they can be artfully done but I don't see all games as art. Then again some people think large cans of soup or smashed up typewriters are art too and I don't. To each his own. :shrug:



On a side note, I agree that people will get two of the three consoles depending on price and popularity. I'm looking forward to the Revolution even if it will have the “most crappy, cheap, gimmick games”.

DuttyFoot
11-12-2005, 06:17 PM
i definately am considering to get the revolution. i ps3 and 360 are systems i would love to get once prices drop a bit. any info on the cost of revolution as yet.

"Epic Games’ Mark Rein has recently declared that games are all about graphics and that the Revolution controller will spawn the “most crappy, cheap, gimmick games”. It comes as a no surprise from the head of a company that is strictly focused on selling the ultimate game engine for realistic graphics."

i dont see how a controller will affect the quality of a game. i think N controller is very unique and i'm looking forward to testing it out. awesome graphics in a game is good, but there is more to a game than the graphics. the graphics are just another tool to sell games whether they are crappy or good. i love the fact that you will be able to play older nintendo games on the revolution. i think thats one of the things i'm looking forward to.

rogfa
11-13-2005, 03:00 AM
I agree with a lot of Nintendo's current thinking. I want to see non-gamers get into gaming. I would love to see my 59 year old parents pick up a Revolution controller as they do solitaire on the computer.

SpiralFace
11-13-2005, 05:11 AM
"Epic Games’ Mark Rein has recently declared that games are all about graphics and that the Revolution controller will spawn the “most crappy, cheap, gimmick games”. It comes as a no surprise from the head of a company that is strictly focused on selling the ultimate game engine for realistic graphics."

This bit upsets me, because it is closed minded thinking like this to shoot down a new idea before even trying it out that will kill the system before anyone even gives it a try. And I fear for nintendo if a developer has this mindset for the system.

Now I know that Nintendo has had a few bad Ideas that this line of thinking could derive from. (Virtua boy and the Power Glove is the instant pair that comes to mind.) But their good ideas far out way their bad ideas and it is them that inovates everything that is found in the way we interface with games today. They are the first ones to use the 4 button dimond configuration button layout, sholder buttons, analoge stick, rumble pack, trigger button, and radio frequency wireless controllers. So this guy has some gaul to completely throw out this new controler idea. But then again Epic's games are still stuck back in the archaic mouse and keyboard interface and as the artical says, they are more focused on graphics then anything else, so I can see where this line of thinking is comming from

Sorry about the rant, but I'm sick of hearing everyone complain about this controler before anyone even has a chance of trying it out. The one thing I can see as being a disadvantage of this controller is its cross platform compatabiliaty for developers that develop games intended for all three systems. I'm sure it will cause them many headaces but then again I don't know for sure.

Nadril
11-13-2005, 05:15 AM
Right now i'm waiting, paitently, to see which console will offer me what I want. whats that you might ask? A reason to get one.

Right now, Xbox 360 is off my list. The main reason is I can play 95% of the games on my PC already, ok, no point of getting it. The ps3 is iffy. It's going to have the next-gen sonic, which I like, but it's so damn expensive... and I haven't realy seen much about it yet.

The revolution is still a 50-50 kind of thing. I think it's either going to bomb horribly or do very well. For some reason i'm not thinking there will be a medium for it. Right now it's on my eye a bit, mostly for the next gen Zelda, mario (if they don't screw it up like sunshine that is), and the interesting idea of downloading old nintendo games onto it. (*drools... downloading chrono trigger and such*).

It's going to be an interesting year, 2006 that is, because each of the consoles seem to have there own thing going on. Nintendo is going for well... hell their own "revloution", microsoft is going for a more PC oriented console, and sony... well, sony is sony :D.

laureato di arte
11-13-2005, 11:49 AM
http://revo-europe.com/news.php?nid=8507

Larry_g1s
11-14-2005, 04:32 PM
apparantly Mark Rein has had a change of heart http://revo-europe.com/news.php?nid=8507You know, I saw the interview, I don't have much respect for the guy. It's just funny to see/hear someone like this who has never even touched the controller spout out his opinion like that when you hear a lot of the JPN developers, like Hideo Kojima, who've actually seen and used it - praise the controller.

Well it's good to see they now have a Revolution dev kit & that the Unreal Engine 3 will be compatible with it.:thumbsup:

agreenster
11-14-2005, 04:46 PM
I don't know that I agree with the state "games are art" in that article. I think games can have art in them or they can be artfully done but I don't see all games as art.

What? Okay, then using your logic, film isnt art either because it has art in it, and can be artfully done. I'd like to hear more as to why you dont think games are art!?

Boone
11-14-2005, 07:16 PM
To those who are in doubt as to whether games can be considered Art - its best to think of them under the catagory of "Art & Design".

When I did my last game( Christ, here it comes - the part about the Victoria Cross again:rolleyes: ) I made it with the overwhelming passion to make the player have the feeling that he would battle the Gods themselves! The art work, the pacing and unfolding of the game are the Art side of things( just like with films ). But as games require the employment of logic etc - design must take an equal( if not higher ) priority.

Some will try and make you believe that games are simply science and technology, but without design, imagination and art - you have something that is little more than an IQ or science test.

Trenox
11-14-2005, 08:22 PM
i dont see how a controller will affect the quality of a game.

Actually i find Nintendos new controller quote exciting (although im not a nintendo fanboy and i have never owned one of their consoles). I think a lot of ppl underestimate the impact controllers have on the games, and in particular on gamedesign decisions. The biggest difference between PC and consoles are imo the controller. The controller interface is a bottleneck for how the player can interact with the game.

ex: Classical RTS games are a good example of a game type thats great on PC but simply unplayable in console. There are many more examples of this, where one kind of controller is superior to another.

What we have seen for the latest genrations of consoles is mainly old ideas beeing remade with better gfx. Problem here lies exactly in the controller. When creating a whole new controller, Nintendo opens up for totally new and fresh ideas that can take advantage of its features. Some traditional gametypes may not play as well on the revolution controller as the old controller, but its always a trade off.

I will look forward to how Nintendo will take advantage of their controller. They actually seem to have a vision of gameplay (and gamedesign decisions) besides just better performance, and i salute them for that.

P_T
11-15-2005, 01:27 AM
Right now, Xbox 360 is off my list. The main reason is I can play 95% of the games on my PC already, ok, no point of getting it.


Ain't that the truth.

I just hope Nintendo will bring out darker, more "mature?" games as well, like RE4 for their GC.

As for PS3 vs XBOX360... It'll be interesting to see how they'll do since it looks like MS got more Jap game developers signed up. I just hope they won't be stupid and sign exclusive deals with MS and make things hard for their own homemade consoles.

Grim Beefer
11-15-2005, 02:03 AM
I hope that as we all get older we demand more from our medium than what we have now. I find experimentation to be the most important thing, because let's face it our genres are getting pretty stale. When I look at videogames now, I picture a movie channel that only plays westerns. Let's see, Macho guy (Metroid an exception, I know), or team of macho guys tactically blow the crap out of things. Where's the art in that?; I mean it's the same stale routine over and over. It's all good fun I'm sure, I'm just personally sick of it - and I don't think I'm the only one. There are so few genres, it's depressing to see so many of them focus on violence as the means of solving problems. Don't get me wrong, I'm not some moralist claiming that it's "wrong", or "evil", just that's it's old, chauvinistic, and derivative. I don't want to ALWAYS watch B horror movies, even if they are good every once in a while. Doom 3, Farcry, and Quake IV have about as much integrity script-wise as a high school English assignment. It shows in the graphics obsession shoved down our throats. It's just too flimsy to have such verisimilitude in Doom visually, but have some paper thin gauntlet of a storyline tacked on with totally unbelievable plot points (why doesn't your "commander" just give you security access to everything?). So I applaud Nintendo's foray into new territory, it's much needed, and hopefully we can democratize video games, legitimize it as an art form, and cleanse it of the sweaty giant-gun masculinity it drips with right now.

GregRinaldi
11-15-2005, 06:01 AM
Lots of valid points in that article. I agree with the author that the games industry for the most part is still overwhelmingly technology driven rather than content driven. Interestingly enough, alot of innovative game design emerges at the end of a console's life cycle, once the technology and workflows have matured to the point where they are nearly transparent to the developers. At this stage, designers are usually able to rapidly prototype game features, and iterate on content. Any developer will tell you that iteration is the key to a successful game design.
All this means however, is that the industry's attention to technology is not entirely misplaced; especially in the early stages of a console's life cycle. If developers do not come to terms with thier technology and toolset early on, they end up struggling with them throughout development, which means less time for designers to experiment with new ideas and tune existing features.
That said, I do believe there will come a day in the near future, when tech advancements will begin to plateau and we'll see a true rennaissance in game design that will elevate the artform (and yes, IMO games, like film and music, are art.)

Nadril
11-15-2005, 10:56 AM
Ain't that the truth.

I just hope Nintendo will bring out darker, more "mature?" games as well, like RE4 for their GC.

As for PS3 vs XBOX360... It'll be interesting to see how they'll do since it looks like MS got more Jap game developers signed up. I just hope they won't be stupid and sign exclusive deals with MS and make things hard for their own homemade consoles.

I serriously just want Nintendo to come out with some good Rpg's. Not like the FF chronicles crap or whatever that was, but some good, deep RPG's. Than i'll get their system.

Frank Lake
11-15-2005, 07:35 PM
Interestingly enough, alot of innovative game design emerges at the end of a console's life cycle, once the technology and workflows have matured to the point where they are nearly transparent to the developers. At this stage, designers are usually able to rapidly prototype game features, and iterate on content. Any developer will tell you that iteration is the key to a successful game design.

All this means however, is that the industry's attention to technology is not entirely misplaced; especially in the early stages of a console's life cycle. If developers do not come to terms with thier technology and toolset early on, they end up struggling with them throughout development, which means less time for designers to experiment with new ideas and tune existing features.
BINGO!!!

This is EXACTLY what is wrong with console gaming right now. Seriously emersive games take time to develop and when you can only make a single game, or 2, within a single consoles 'life-time' you can't really learn what you did right or wrong and apply that to the next game for that system.

I really hope that the new gens of consoles last several years more then the last.

JeroenDStout
11-15-2005, 07:43 PM
I wouldn't call Doom 3 'art', really. I wouldn't even call the designs 'artistic'. Though, for instance, I recently aquired Beyond Good & Evil and that entire game is solid 'art' for me. I'd say games are a medium and any medium can be used to show art :)

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