Star Wars Episode 2.1

[JA-forreal]

Sometimes the bigger you get the dum..........

If you watch the original Star Wars series you see a definite difference in overall film quality in comparison to the new stuff. Better actors, better story, better artwork. Hmmmm artwork, not 3d cartoon cuteness. I used to watch saturday morning cartoons, and the storyline and action setups in the New "Episodes" seem to follow that similar dialog.

Who said a pc can make you a better artist, fx person or video editor? Oh, that's right, Billy Gates and Jobs.

Anyway, maybe Lucas is past his prime and his "singing" voice is giving out or two or three of his band members left and took the drums and the base guitar.

I have been looking forward to the LOTR 2, Matrix 2 and Star Trek Nemesis for real good blockbuster films. So.


Maybe George should go for "Buffy the Jedi". Hey it worked for the WB. It's what they say the "kids" watch.



JA-forreal

[Valkyrien]

man, what I'd do to see a few choice scenes edited out of Ep II...

[MaDSheeP]

I really think that the quality of comedy has gone down hill for star wars.. I mean.. the friggin puns from C3PO were painful..

but you wanna know a really good joke?

the cloud city where C3PO is about to be thrown into the furnace...

and Chewie is fighting with the guys trying to get the parts back.. that scene worked so well...

bah...

i didn't notice where Anikin was going to town.. i just didn't realize it, but now that you mention it...

and another scene is.. Padme got up way too fast after going 'ooohhh. ahhhh...' she makes it sound like she broke something falling out of the transport... and then she jumps right up.. that was pretty lame.. bah....

but the special effects i really liked.. it is a very beautiful dvd...

i say Lucas should hand off the reigns to another writer and let someone else do the sequels.. =(

just my 2¢

[dark_lotus]

need a bunch of 16 year old fanboys to tell them what was wrong with their film?

Cause its their audience, and george is sooo out of touch with them,

Example 1: Jar Jar Bonks.

I mean.. the friggin puns from C3PO were painful..

On the contrary, I nearly wet myself in the cinema. Mind you I was brought up with doctor humor and monty python.

I still laugh out loud in that scene. That and when Yoda makes his entrance, they tried to make it serious and failed miserably.

and let someone else do the sequels..

I think that'd be the option for ep7,8.9. It seems logical to let someone else direct it, but with the same production team.

And don't forget we have fan-films to keep us occupied, while we wait 3 years for ep3.

[Sieb]

The originals were the best because George didn't write them. He just directed. That's why Empire Strikes Back is the best, a real writer did it. I give George props for creating a universe and the basis of all sci-fi basicly. And he is killer with the action, but screenwriter he is not. I think he should have pulled his strings and outsourced the writing again. The movies could have been so much more.

I still have yet to pay to see EII, a friend nabbed a copy of the internet and I watched here on my laptop in bed while everyone was waiting in line.. :) At least I had the option of FF through the crappy ass dialog so I didn't have to gouge my eyes out..

I am hoping EIII is nice and dark and everyone is pissed off in the movie. Then I can forgive Georgie..

[MCronin]

Originally posted by Sieb
The originals were the best because George didn't write them. He just directed. That's why Empire Strikes Back is the best, a real writer did it. I give George props for creating a universe and the basis of all sci-fi basicly. And he is killer with the action, but screenwriter he is not. I think he should have pulled his strings and outsourced the writing again. The movies could have been so much more.

I still have yet to pay to see EII, a friend nabbed a copy of the internet and I watched here on my laptop in bed while everyone was waiting in line.. :) At least I had the option of FF through the crappy ass dialog so I didn't have to gouge my eyes out..

I am hoping EIII is nice and dark and everyone is pissed off in the movie. Then I can forgive Georgie..

Lucas wrote and directed the Star Wars, Empire and Jedi were dircted by others, Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand. Lucas also didn't write Empire and Jedi on his own. That's the problem with these new one's, he's wearing too many hats. He writes, directs, produces, edits, and art directs. I know it's his vision, and he's putting up the money, but he really needs to have someone to answer to. Someone to be objective and tell him these puns, and the love story feel really strained, not to keep killing these villians with great potential, and the people he is casting are giving really wooden performances. Geoarge Lucas has done a lot of stupid things, making Greedo shoot first was deffinitely the worst.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by MCronin
...making Greedo shoot first was deffinitely the worst.

Hey, look at the bright side...at least he didn't replace his blaster with a walkie-talkie!

[Matt_Forcum]

Originally posted by GRMac13
Hey, look at the bright side...at least he didn't replace his blaster with a walkie-talkie!

hahahahahahahahaha.

[wgreenlee1]

great JarJar Movie found here (http://www.asciimation.co.nz/diejarjar.html)

Check this killer movie out!!!!

[JA-forreal]

-You know you are a geek... when you can discuss the ups and downs of the Star Wars Sagas in great detail while looking forward to a better Jedi film plot.

-You know you are a geek when you look at a Victoria Secret catalog picture of Tyra Banks and estimate her body as a low poly mesh for an Unreal Bot.

Blame everything on Bill, he sucked us into his ultra geek dimension known as the pc.



JA-forreal - A homeboy geek-

What kind of geek are you?

-a hillbilly geek?
-a surfer geek?
-a jock geek?
-a cool geek?
-a ghetto geek?
-a sumo geek?
-a hiphop geek?
-a closet geek?
-a babe geek?
-a geeks geek?

[dark_lotus]

What kind of geek are you?

dark_lotus would be a jock/cool geek. But I only like martial arts, no ball sports for me.

You know you are a geek when - you look at numberplates and all you see is the three letter extention. (aussie licence plates are like (ABC*123).)

You know you are a geek when - you cry if your computer gets damaged. Specially applicible to laptops.

[Matt_Forcum]

Im a geek in denile. a closet geek i guess.

[Sieb]

You know you are a geek when - you cry if your computer gets damaged. Specially applicible to laptops.

I know I would. Especially after spending about 3 grand on each PC and laptop. I feel sorry for those with Ti's.. I would kill someone if mine got scratched up or dented or worse..

[BrandonD]

Actually, what they did with Episode II in Imax is the same as Apollo 13. Because of restrictions in the large format platter system, the original length of each reel could not be maintained. So both films had been edited.

Personally, I thought it was pretty cool to see in IMAX, but equally frustrating. Everything has a sort of "sharpen filter" look to it. And boy, you can really see grain in the motion blur ;)

[Flog]

Star Wars has lost the heart behind it, now that Lucas has more money than 10 million bankers can count in a year, he puts special FX forward. IN the beginning Star Wars was a true labor of love, using whatever they could to create the vision. Getting good actors and really enjoying the film. NOw he pays more attention to 3d graphics. I think actually going to the desert and filming is better than creating a 3d desert. It has more heart when your actually there.

Making Jabba from scratch by hands rocked. Made you work harder to believe he was real

Using midgets inside the Ewok costumes gave them a soul a life. The furry bodies were real. They had a twinkle in their eye.

Going on differant locations and making real life miniatures and lifesize sets actually took you there. It made it feel like it was real, like that is a place that exists not just on the screen but in real life.

Having a 7 foot man in a chewbacca costume where you could look in the mouth, and the characters could touch and feel and really see made him seem like he really existed, that he was a part of the crew. There was Harrison Ford and Chewbacca.

All this CG crap all over the screen is nice to look at in Star Wars but thats the thing it looks CG. Making an animatronic and matting it with real fur or a puppet and putting on real fur and a live person inside made the actors really feel they were there. Working with a blue screen does not really put the actor in that location.
Burning in the hot sun in the desert really made Luke feel like Luke, living on his desert planet.
Han petting Chewy on the head and talking to him, he could actually touch and feel him so reacted better.

And the chemestry between the actors is bland at best in STar WArs considering most of the actors are not real and the other half seem bored all the time. When I saw Han and Leia I felt they loved each other. Anakin and Padme just got freaky right away. No chemistry between the two.

Star WArs has lost its soul

P.S. I think as a person Lucas kinda sucks making his fans wait 3 years between films to see the conclusion. He should have done like the LOTR director, 1 per year, but 3 years man that is a long time.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Flog
...blah, blah, blabbity, blah blah...

lol!

So wait, you're saying that the difference in the quality between the original trilogy and the prequels are cheesy rubber suits and ships on fish-wire? And you feel that the new movies would be better off with the rubber suits?:surprised

Damn, better tell the boys at ILM before they make the mistake of spending hours and hours producing all of those horrible effects! :rolleyes:

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Flog
P.S. I think as a person Lucas kinda sucks making his fans wait 3 years between films to see the conclusion. He should have done like the LOTR director, 1 per year, but 3 years man that is a long time.

ummm...an average film takes 1-2 years to produce from storyboards to final cut. In the case of FX-laden flicks like SW or LOTR, you're talking at least an extra year for FX. All 3 LOTR films were produced simultaneously. Peter Jackson himself has stated that the production was very stressful and costly, but it was the only way New Line would fund the films. Lucas has the luxury of having his own funding, so he can take his time with concept development and shoot each film independently, and could therefore follow a standard production schedule.

[Martyr]

I dont think star wars lost his soul as flog says, Im a fan and i possibly try to justifie anything relied to star wars but In the original trilogy there were many place that the special effect dont do the job correctly, remember the bizarre square around spaceships, the bizarre black mark near of the eyes of the emperor, the rubber masks who dont move, all the go motion(rancor, taun-taun...) now with the uses of cgi anything could look better (not perfect),

Say the you dont find all the scenes with Watto and Sebulba yoda, interesting...I personnally think what is lacking in the new star wars is truly the integration with the live actors and blue,green screens and mathe painting. Its sure that Lucas want to innovate in a technical way he always did taht for star wars, all films is a kind of revolution!!

[Matt_Forcum]

We arent talking about special Effects here guys. (not entirely anyway.) this is about the fundemental problems with the starwars system.

[l_farley13_l]

yup agree completely with Flog. Big problem with philosophy.

-Farley13

[AJE]

I just think the script(dialogue mostly) was shite... and a lot of the compositing/motion tracking...


Is it possible these latest 2 Star Wars films have 'lost their soul' due to the fact that the poor actors have to imagine EVERYTHING?

The environment, the hostile aliens attacking them... I mean watching the documentaries on the DVD, I was suprised the cast managed to do as well as they did considering they've been kinda hung out to dry by the director...

________________________________
"Here's some second-rate dialogue that I want you to scream as you wave this green broom handle around... but be careful to not put it outside the markers or the blue screen behind you"

**

"What's you motivation, you ask?"

**

"Well, you're defending yourself from blaster bullets as a 10 foot, six legged alien begins his attack from over there..."

**

"Ya, over there... beyond the edge of the pillar..."

**

"Well of course there's no pillar, we're gonna put it in afterwards..."

**

"Yes, the alien too."

**

"And the blaster bullets... yes."

**

"Don't worry about that, we'll just fix anything we need to in post..."

**

"Action!"

**

"Ok, let's do another take, I didn't quite believe you were in extreme peril..."

**&@#$!!


__________________________________________

What can we expect? Even the BEST actors need SOMETHING to work with...

AJE

[ambient-whisper]

And he is killer with the action

not really. just sfx. the action feels too light weight. i want some heavy weight hardcore action.:) i wanna feel it. and sw doesnt do that.

[GRMac13]

I'm a big SW fan too, and I honestly don't think the new films are any more cheesy or poorly-written than the original trilogy. I mean the whole point of these films is in their campiness. The biggest difference between them is in the FX. As for the acting, with the possible exception of Harrison Ford, the actors in the originals did just as poor a job with the corny dialogue that the new kids are doing. Most of the criticism among SW fans comes from the fact that too many have lost sight of the fact that these films are made for 12 year-old boys, not 20 or 30 somethings. This was true in 77 and it's just as true today. Lucas is a marketing genius and regardless of how much you wish the films were "darker" or more serious, it's just not as appealing to the 8-12 year olds and therefore won't sell as many action figures. I mean, ESB was no more "darker" than AOTC. I don't get why alot of folks think that Lucas should change his formula now and go down a different road just because fans of the original have passed the age of his target audience? In fact, the dude's been very successful in creating an entirely new audience consisting of kids who could care less about how effective the love story is or how Oscar-worthy the acting.

Anyway feel free to complain about how Lucas should consider your feelings because you've been investing xxx dollars and xx years pining for the new films and hoarding SW memorabilia. Or how you feel like CG has ruined the acting or the fact that you think Lucas pays too much attention to FX, and not enough to getting an Oscar-winning performance out of his actors (lmfao). Then go ask an 8-12 year-old neighbor or relative their opinion, and try to understand that their opinion is much more valuable to Lucasfilm than yours.

[Flog]

Is it possible these latest 2 Star Wars films have 'lost their soul' due to the fact that the poor actors have to imagine EVERYTHING?

Exactly my point. The movie, nice as the cg is, over uses it. The actors cannot interact as well with the characters. I think they rely to heavily on the 3d cg and blue screens.

Stuff like the Rankor, Jawas hide out, other robots, and big monsters, aliens in the background, or those beautiful landscapes are cool to use CG.

Creatures that are close to the actors and such should be animatronic, or puppet. Something they can intereact with. Less 3d sets and more real life sets would be awesome.

The story I do not feel is as campy as the original. It was campy and this one is just straight action to action and very rare camp. AOTC just had Anikan and Padme running from trouble to trouble and him crying all the time about Obiwan. Boy with issues

I do like the new Star Wars movies. I think in order my favorites are Empire, Jedi, Menace, New Hope, AOTC being last of my favorites.

[danteort]

Here is my problem with the new Star Wars films. Lucas waited 20 years to film Episode 1 because the technology wasn't advanced enough to realize his vision. If you have to wait 20 years to realize your vision, then your vision had better be DAMN GOOD. The original trilogy was so revolutionary (FX-wise) that people saw it and just had to say 'WOW!' With the new ones, while the FX are definitely well done, it's not new anymore. People see the movies and say "neat." Lucas can't rely on his FX to carry the film; it just doesn't work that way anymore.

Episode 2, I actually did somewhat enjoy it. I was warned ahead of time about the crappy love scenes, so I just kind of took a 10 minute mental break from the film and sort of filtered that out.

Anyway, he NEEDS to hire someone to write the scripts. I seriously hope that he does not believe he can actually write dialogue. And his directing, from what I've heard, is pretty much "Ok, go over there, do the line, then do your thing, then go over here." Completely dry with emphasis on the technical side of things. The actors, with a few exceptions, are very talented people who unfortunately were given almost nothing to work with.

[Matt_Forcum]

Originally posted by GRMac13
I mean the whole point of these films is in their campiness... Most of the criticism among SW fans comes from the fact that too many have lost sight of the fact that these films are made for 12 year-old boys, not 20 or 30 somethings. This was true in 77 and it's just as true today. ...just because fans of the original have passed the age of his target audience?

These are all Excueses that George was trying to make to defend his work. (except for the campiness thing. I just dont get that.)

but anyways, a GOOD movie will appeal to all audiances. not just the "target audiance" (which by the way, for a star wars movie the target audiance is...well...starwars fans.) look at all the "childrens" movies out there that we all love. Toystory, Spiderman, Harry Potter, LOTR. all of these movies would fall in the same catigory right? Target audiance? please. Is george trying to say that that only a ten year old boy would like this movie? because most 10 year old boys I know like bugers.

and by the way. the original series had NO problem drawing an adult crowd. so they must not have "honed" in on their target audiance yet right?

[Flog]

Target audience my butt, the target audience is the fans, Star Wars fans to be exact.

[Edgemaster]

I dont know about you guys but I felt that the movie ended all of a sudden..Like one minute there blasting guys all over the place and all that fighting then all of a sudden you see a marrage? I dont know there just wasnt that struggle or real fighting...And when I heard Attack of the Clones I thought they would clone yoda and obi so they would have to face each other (there own clone)..You know everyone has a clone of them selves...And there wasnt much killing either unless you consider a robot dying...Dont get me wrong the movie was Ok.(just saw it last week on video for the first time)..But yeah it was missing that old star wars feel.. Like I remember the luke and darth vader fights where pretty good fight scenes...I also had a hard time getting into the movie (almost fell asleep in the middle half,same thing happend to the episode I movie,wierd huh)..All those special effects where making me forget about the movie.

But I just hope that the next one is more graphic and more sinnister...You know showing darth vader becoming darth vader.. Show the pain that will take place...Make it so graphic that it will be rated R or something like that...But like I've said before it will probably be a rated G movie...Well thats all I've got to say about that.....

[Valkyrien]

Originally posted by Flog
Target audience my butt, the target audience is the fans, Star Wars fans to be exact.

try SHOULD be the target audience. GL is more interested in marketing to kids. Hence the Phantom Disgrace :)

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Ephesus
These are all Excueses that George was trying to make to defend his work. (except for the campiness thing. I just dont get that.)

but anyways, a GOOD movie will appeal to all audiances. not just the "target audiance" (which by the way, for a star wars movie the target audiance is...well...starwars fans.) look at all the "childrens" movies out there that we all love. Toystory, Spiderman, Harry Potter, LOTR. all of these movies would fall in the same catigory right? Target audiance? please. Is george trying to say that that only a ten year old boy would like this movie? because most 10 year old boys I know like bugers.

and by the way. the original series had NO problem drawing an adult crowd. so they must not have "honed" in on their target audiance yet right?

No, no, NO! I for one love all the SW films because I am not disillusioned into thinking they should be anymore complicated (or "mature") than they are. All the movies you mentioned (with the exception of LOTR) are chock full of cheese, corn and all the other food-stuffs that make these films more appealling to younger audiences. Every aspect of marketing in the entertainment industry (especially ticket sales, and especially Hollywood) is based on demographics. The demographic of the SW franchise happens to be pre-adolecent boys. The reason we all love films such as Star Wars, Potter, Toy Story, Spider-Man, etc... is because they appeal to the child inside us all. However, for some reason SW fans have built up the series into something far greater than it is. It's become a sort of sub-culture due all of the "extended universe" crap and fan films and what have you. The fact is that the original films were simple, easy to understand (and yes, campy) sci-fi westerns. Wake up man, you got into SW when you were a child (most likely) because something about it appealled to you. Should Lucas change his strategy because his original audience has grown up? Absolutely not, that would do an injustice to the series. Instead, the guy has succeeded in establishing an entirely new generation of SW fans. I'd say it's genius.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Edgemaster
But I just hope that the next one is more graphic and more sinnister...You know showing darth vader becoming darth vader.. Show the pain that will take place...Make it so graphic that it will be rated R or something like that...But like I've said before it will probably be a rated G movie...Well thats all I've got to say about that.....

LOL! I just read that. Are you kidding me??? Dude this is a kid's movie! For cryin out loud, are you people that out of it? There was NEVER anything graphic about the SW films. Even when Luke's hand was cut off (and Anikin's) there was NO blood, and the next scene they had a replacement. There will NEVER be an R-rated version of Star Wars! How stupid would Lucas have to be if all the kids playing with their new "Clones" action figures couldn't even buy a ticket to see EpIII becasue it's rated R?

[froggyplat]

Originally posted by GRMac13
There was NEVER anything graphic about the SW films. Even when Luke's hand was cut off (and Anikin's) there was NO blood,

well, darth maul did get cut in half and jango fett gets his head cut off...other than that, no not that graphic.:)

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by froggyplat
well, darth maul did get cut in half and jango fett gets his head cut off...other than that, no not that graphic.:)

Oh please, you call that graphic? Darth Maul is cut in half, but you don't really know that until he is halfway down the shaft. Even then, he keeps moving and the shot is so quick, only VERY sharp youngins would ever notice. Plus again (NO BLOOD). As for Fett, it's not graphic AT ALL. You see Mace swing at his head and it cuts to another shot. Then you see Boba holding the helmet. It's more implied than graphic.

Violent? Yes.

Graphic? Hardly.

[froggyplat]

sorry, grmac13, but i'm going to have to disagree with you. watch closely and you will see a spew of blood come at the camera when maul gets cut in half. and you will also see fett's head come out of his helmet (albeit in shadow) as well as his headless body fall over.
i'm sure everyone's standards for graphic violence are different, but those elements are there if you look closely enough.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by froggyplat
sorry, grmac13, but i'm going to have to disagree with you. watch closely and you will see a spew of blood come at the camera when maul gets cut in half. and you will also see fett's head come out of his helmet (albeit in shadow) as well as his headless body fall over.
i'm sure everyone's standards for graphic violence are different, but those elements are there if you look closely enough.

Personally, it takes alot for me to consider something graphic, but that's besides the point. I'm going by MPAA standards, and apparently the violence in both films was not deemed graphic enough to warrant anything higher than a PG-rating (which is way tame). As for the "blood," WHAT are you saying dude?? Spewing??? lol, come on. It looks like a faint red dust cloud that appears for milliseconds, I had to watch the film probably 3 times before I even noticed it, most kids would likely never see it. And the Fett thing is so ridiculously quick that most kids wouldnt notice that either. Besides, as most of us know, most kids have a verrrry short attention span, so all the crap flying around the frame during the final battle in AOTC is way too much for most kids to take it all in anyway.

[Edgemaster]

Well maybe a Rated R would be too far..But how could you focus a movie based on war towards kids? (the movie even has the word WAR in it.) Is this the vision for star wars?.. You say this is a kids movie but is it really? Where does it say that this is a kids movie? Just because they make toys for kids? Come on they make toys for spawn action figures..

I just figured that darth vader probably went through some pain before he bacame a machine or what ever he is..And that to show it would mean so much more as to why the dark side is so much pain and suffering like yoda said.(come on even yoda said it). Im no star wars fanatic or anything I just enjoy a good movie and the old star wars movies where good.

Thats all I really have to say about that.....:D

[Flog]

That is the point though GRMAC Star Wars has lost its campiness. Its not camp. Its not as fun. Its just distracting special FX thrown on the screen. They are good movies but not great movies.

The demographic is Star Wars fans in general, not just children. It is a general audience demographic. Like Spiderman it was pointed for everyone, not just the kids, but everyone, hence the 115 million its first weekend out.

Star Wars has lost its heart, still a good movie, but not the classics like the original.

[Flog]

The older movies had charm and you felt it more.
All you can feel in this movie is the cold steel known as CG. All CG=bad CG in balance=Good.

THe movie misses its original charm

CHARM is the key word

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Flog
All you can feel in this movie is the cold steel known as CG. All CG=bad CG in balance=Good.

THe movie misses its original charm

CHARM is the key word

"Charm" meaning antiquated special effects technology? No thank you. I don't know about you, but I'm into CG because most of the time, the results are exponentially better than a rubber suit or animatronic. The stance you're taking has nothing to do with the quality of the films, it's about the FX. IMO FX (good or "charmy") do not a make a film. Speaking of which, I am not commenting on the FX because IMO they are the only thing separating the old from the new (the new being better as far as FX of course). The cheesy dialogue, campiness, etc is absolutely still there in force (excuse the pun).

[AJE]

GRMac13...lol... did you work on it by any chance, cause you're defending it like there's some personal ties there...


The fact is that Lucas did aim these movies at a younger audience, and I think in doing so he kinda had to let down the older, more sophisticated fans to recruit the new ones.

Very smart marketing move, but it shows that these new ones are all about the money, and not about the fans.

I guess I kind of expected the product would grow up with me, but although there are more CG fx, the story has not grown at all.
I think that's why I was a little disappointed.

On the DVD they talk about having a visual arena that audiences now demand..... well they should have taken that approach right across the board, from writing to editing.

Sad to see such strong beginnings fall short near the end. I hope someone else helps write and direct the last one.

(then give the next 3 to Cameron, Spielburg, or Jackson...)

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by AJE
GRMac13...lol... did you work on it by any chance, cause you're defending it like there's some personal ties there...

lol! Yea right bro, I wish.

Honestly, I just think that most folks are expecting waaaay too much from these films and will be unhappy not matter how they turn out.

And this...

Originally posted by AJE
The fact is that Lucas did aim these movies at a younger audience, and I think in doing so he kinda had to let down the older, more sophisticated fans to recruit the new ones.

...is the main point I was trying to make. At least you see, whether or not you agree with it is another matter, but at least you're wise enough to understand it. I was starting to think that most people actually thought that SW was supposed to be aimed at an older crowd.

Thanx.

[Flog]

Or should be aimed at everyone, the children through the adults. When it first came out those are the people who went to see it. Adults and children alike.

So I don't think it is for adults or old fans of the original, but is targetted for the new Star Wars aholics. But the problem is, he is really not making anything for a new generation to really be impressed upon.

Star Wars Original impressed on the minds of many. I don't think the new ones have anything special to them, and no heart, alot of cool fx and fun action, but no heart

When Lucas first made Star Wars it was a labor of love, something they had fun with, now its just his cronies sitting around doing his bidding. There is not heart or the original charm. Its just another movie, not to hit classic proportions as the originals did.

[GRMac13]

Bah, it's all hype Flog. The originals did so well with young and old alike because they were way ahead of their time in terms of FX (NOt so much in terms of story). Younger fans were into the funny characters, and older fans were into the cool effects. Star Wars pretty much set the bar for FX in sci-fi films in the late 70's/early-80's. It was groundbreaking stuff back then. ILM revolutionized the industry. Today, ILM is still doing some revolutionary stuff, but it's just not as groundbreaking as it was then because the technology is so pervasive. Still, in terms of story, nothing's changed but the actors and the scale.

[Matt_Forcum]

Originally posted by GRMac13
No, no, NO! I for one love all the SW films because I am not disillusioned into thinking they should be anymore complicated (or "mature") than they are

Im not talking about complication or maturity. infact, Episodes 1 and 2 are to complicated in my opinion. what I am talking about is quality.

Which is what these movies lack.

NOT i repet NOT effects wise. so please dont misunderstand. the effects are amazing. Those guys did a great job. But pretty crap is still in the end, just crap.

Thats why they had to go re-edit it.

[dark_lotus]

I think that George has put himself (deliberately or not) in a position where episode 3 has to explain everything.

I think he is the best person to direct it, simply because he will be able to explain himself. I think that ep3 is going to blow people away, just simply because it will shed a different light on ep1&2, giving them a much better context.

[Joviex]

I think descriptions like charm or nostalgia are incorrect.

I think descriptions like ass dialogue and ass-reamed story are more likely accurate.

I am sad to see this thread has gotten so long filled up with good ommentary followed by someone else spewing george lucas's comment's after ep1.

The long story short, the movies fail miserably to capture the romance and essence the originals had, effects and sounds aside.

Using some BS marketing ploy to say they were made for children is pretty ass. Especially since most of the kids I have talked with, not including my 12 younger cousins, pretty much don't give a rats patute about them. They actualyl enjoyed spiderman and MIB 1/2 more than this POS (again, minus effects and sounds) movie.

Glad to hear that G.L. has some supporters, cause until ep3 comes out and blows me away, his legacy is pretty much toilet water in my mind.

-- signed a very VERY very sad SW fan who now has to look to ST for a solid sci-fi universe.... sniff sniff.

[Matt_Forcum]

You all know the commercial. Two words; YODA MAN!

I threw a freaking pillow at the T.V. god that was awful.

[Kananga]

I have a dream.

For episode 3 Lucas will ditch the whacky CG characters, the lame humour, give the characters heart and completely focus on the story and create a dark and serious film on a par with LOTR. I mean, actually make a GREAT movie set in the star war universe. Even better than Empire.

Hhehehhe. Just kidding.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by amorano
I am sad to see this thread has gotten so long filled up with good ommentary followed by someone else spewing george lucas's comment's after ep1.

So it's good commentary until someone says something that you don't agree with? Nice logic.

By the way, I'm a big boy, I don't need Lucas or anyone else to tell me these films are targeted at a young audience, cuz it's so damn obvious. I've already stated that this is why these films are so disappointing to some of you nuts. But none of you have given any sound criticism of the films other than "Oh, it sucks", or "Bah, it has lost its 'charm.'" What the hell does that mean? Be specific. What exactly has been lost? None of the SW films have ever been praised for great acting or groundbreaking dialogue. I mean the line "I have a bad feeling about this" is re-used in every single film multiple times. It's campy.

And WHAT the heck kind of a critique is this?

Originally posted by amorano
I think descriptions like ass dialogue and ass-reamed story are more likely accurate.

"Ass dialogue" lmfao!

:p

[Flog]

You'll never get it. Tis a shame, a dirty shame.

Lucas boasts he is making it for his audience, the Star Wars fans, time and time again. He said Attack of the Clones was supposed to make it up to the fans, although I like Phantom Menace. I think it still had that Star Wars feel. He knew he didn't do as expected the first time and vowed to make it up to his fans, his Star Wars fans. Old and young alike. Target is his fans and a new generation.

It is a good movie, just over used the CG. When they used costumes you could tell there was more feeling behind it. Chewy wasn't just some 3d image you wanted to go away, he was a real character. I think they rely to heavily on CG is all. To much CG, and the story of Star Wars was good in the orignal, and medicocre in AOTC. I like Phantom Menace a little more. Darth Maul was cool, and nice to see where Vader came from.

[GRMac13]

You are waaay to worried about FX here, and they are irrelevant in terms of what's being discussed. I think the majority of folks (especially those on a CG forum) would have to agree that the quality of the FX in the new films is exponentially better than the old. Besides, your critcism about the FX is based on nostalgia, which is a biased opinion. I want to know what the difference is regarding the story, dialogue and character development, because I don't see much of a change in the new ones where that is concerned.

You said it was "a good movie, just over used the CG." Well since we are not discussing the FX, you are basically agreeing with my point that they are just as good as the originals.

[Joviex]

Originally posted by GRMac13
You are waaay to worried about FX here, and they are irrelevant in terms of what's being discussed. I think the majority ......

I want to know what the difference is regarding the story, dialogue and character development, because I don't see much of a change in the new ones where that is concerned.


Actually, I think you are being way to overcritical in listening to what the people are saying here.

It does not feel the same as the originals. There is no formula for what is wrong, since, if there was, who would need someone like G.L. to make a movie?

I FEEL that these movies just don't have something the others did. Were the originals masterworks of ficitional writting? Hell no. Was the acting the best ever? HELL no.

The effects and sound were mindblowing for the times, just as they are now. I ain't arguing about effects/sound. The FEEL of these movies is not right.

And yes, the acting is actually WORSE in the new movies. As is the writting. How is this possible.... that is the question.

Someone did mention trying to act with nothing there is prolly some of the reason, I would tend to agree.

As for the writting however, he had almost 20 years to get these scripts correct. He could have written the great american novel twice in that time. So there really is no excuse, and passing the buck to the marketing department is pretty lame.

He said countless times how these were movies to give back to the fans. Not 10 year olds, until after EP 1 came around and failed expectations. Then the excuses started rolling in.

I would also go on a limb and say there is an overuse of CG for the characters. I am all for innovation, but one must admit from watching the entire series, there is still nothing that beats puppets, and guys in wookie suits. Sorry, thems is the facts.

On that note, the Dooby character from Harry potter was done extremely well, and I would use that as testiment that ILM is getting better and better at the realization of credible CG chracters on the silver screen.

[Kananga]

all the clone troopers in AOTC were CG. They never built an actual suit. Lucus just said, aahhhh what the hell they look ok

I didnt actually realise it while I was watching the film, but I think sub-consciously it does make things seem artificial somehow. Distances you from the film.

The Hoth battle in EP 5, it was gritty, real. Thats where the new films are different.

[danteort]

Originally posted by GRMac13
I want to know what the difference is regarding the story, dialogue and character development, because I don't see much of a change in the new ones where that is concerned.
If you believe that there is no difference between the dialogue of the original three and the new ones, that's fine and you are free to think that. Obviously, if you think that way, there isn't much of a difference other than the FX being way more advanced nowadays.

However, I DO believe there is a difference. If the dialogue in the orignal trilogy was cheesy, campy, whatever, then the dialogue in Episodes 1 and 2 is hideously cheesy, dry, and boring. That's just how I feel. Since this is a matter of opinion, there is no right or wrong here.

In the original trilogy, I got a sense that there was a world out there beyond what we see in the movie. They made references to past events, other places, people, and so on. It wasn't much, but it was there. I didn't get that feeling in the new ones.

It felt like everything revolved around what was happening at the moment, in that scene. It felt 2-dimensional. I didn't get the sense of life beyond the characters occupying the screen at that moment. The story also felt basically reverse-engineered. We know the outcome, so everything happened in order to achieve it. That's how it felt. Nothing seemed to happen naturally due to circumstances and events in the present, or things that happened in the past; instead, everything seemed aimed towards the future.

This is just my opinion. You asked for why people thought the new ones were worse, and those are my reasons. (Not very well expressed reasons, but I tried my best to explain what I meant.)

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by amorano
The story also felt basically reverse-engineered. We know the outcome, so everything happened in order to achieve it. That's how it felt. Nothing seemed to happen naturally due to circumstances and events in the present, or things that happened in the past; instead, everything seemed aimed towards the future.

That's because films are being reverse-engineered, after all, Lucas wrote Ep IV, V and VI first. Since most of us older fans grew up watching these episodes, of course we are going to expect to see certain things in the prequels. Your statement proves the point I'm trying to make; that older fans (myself included) have a difficult time setting aside their memory of the original films. But that's the problem with prequels, knowing what we know about the future of these characters, of course we are going to say "Oh gee, I know why that's happening" it ruins the suspense. There's is no way around this, so my suggestion to everyone is to look at the films (old, and new) as if you'd never heard the word Star Wars in your life. I know it's hard, but maybe then you'd see where I'm getting at.

Well, that's all I have to say about that. Since many of you seem to want to debate FX, I'll move on to that subject...

Originally posted by amorano
there is still nothing that beats puppets, and guys in wookie suits. Sorry, thems is the facts.

Actually, thems is your opinions. I personally think the CG Yoda beat the pants off the puppet, and I didn't notice all the Clones were CG until a friend pointed it out, I think they were fantastically done. I'll conceed that FX -wise the film did have some poorly done shots (by ILM standards), but the majority were great. Don't get me wrong, the old ones were great too (for their time). I just think this "nostalgia" thing is dangerous. Maybe it's not ALL nostalgia, but can you honestly say that the Chewbacca suit had more personality than the Watto character? You're talking about a guy in a suit with limited facial movement compared to a fully articulated CG character. Maybe you're gripe is with the compositing, but as far as animation, I think Watto gave a much better performance than Chewy (no offense to Peter Mayhew), simply because the new technology allows the FX artists and animators to do so.

[Kananga]

FX-iness was just part of the problem.

The first trilogy was a western set in outer space, with snappy dialogue, brilliantly cast . The characters were american 'types' not unlike Lucas's character from American Graffitti.

The new trilogy is stiff and anglo-centric, obsessed with politics and trade-blockades, with uninvolving action sequences thrown in just to remind us of what the fils used to be like.

[AJE]

This thread is going nowhere in under 12 parsecs...

[Lunatique]

My personal opinion:

Special Effects does not a good film make.

Even as a kid, I was way more fascinated by better Sci-Fi films like Bladerunner, Alien, Aliens, 2001: A Space Odyssey..etc.

Who says a fantasy space opera HAS to be for the younger audience? What a cop-out. Look at Dune--it's a space opera too, but it sure aint for kids.

George Lucas is one of the most overrated creators IMO. Without his special effects crew, he is a dime-a-dozen. Go look at your local bookstore's Science-Fiction section. It is FILLED with writers that have more talent. Go look at your local video store. It's FILLED with directors with more talent and better films.

If the same special effects crew had taken some science-fiction masterpiece by a well-known science-fiction writer and hired a good director and made it into a film back in the 70's, SW wouldn't have been so special. It was only special because no one else was doing it. Doesn't make it great or anything.

The fact that the best SW films weren't even directed by Lucas is proof that he is not as special as people make him out to be.

Of course, no one has to agree. It's just an opinion.

[Kananga]

when was Lucas ever overrated as a director?:surprised

[Matt_Forcum]

Originally posted by AJE
This thread is going nowhere in under 12 parsecs...

Did you know a parsec is accually a measure of distance? its true. George screwed up back then too. His excuse? "oh well maybe they learned away to change the distance of space." Wow. super weak excuse george.

[Sieb]

Did you know a parsec is accually a measure of distance? its true. George screwed up back then too. His excuse? "oh well maybe they learned away to change the distance of space." Wow. super weak excuse george.

parsec: A unit of astronomical length based on the distance from Earth at which stellar parallax is one second of arc and equal to 3.258 light-years, 3.086 × 1013 kilometers, or 1.918 × 1013 miles.


"A long time ago, in a galaxy far far away...."

-Thats Georges justification. His emphisis was on the story rather than the technology. Whereas Star Trek is the opposite.

[GRMac13]

Originally posted by Lunatique
George Lucas is one of the most overrated creators IMO.

No argument here, but you have to admire the man's marketing genius.

edit: But I do think he's a decent director.

The reason I can enjoy the films without getting as bent out of shape as alot of folks here is because I understand the fact that they are not of the same quality (script-wise) as"Bladerunner." I take for them for what they are, simple linear storylines accompanied by some of the best FX and art direction in the industry.

Well, it's been fun while it lasted, but I agree with AJE, this debate has hit a dead-end.

Cheers.

:beer:

[AJE]

parsec: A unit of astronomical length based on the distance from Earth at which stellar parallax is one second of arc and equal to 3.258 light-years, 3.086 × 1013 kilometers, or 1.918 × 1013 miles.

Now THAT I didn't know...

I should have expected it though, since most of the techno-babble they use in scifi comes from a layman's interpretation of scientific terms.

[Gilgamesh]

Originally posted by farquar
I have a dream.

For episode 3 Lucas will ditch the whacky CG characters...

Hehe, I was hoping for just the opposite. I think that so far the CG characters in the first 2 films have done a much better job emoting than the actual actors.

[Edgemaster]

check out this link...

http://www.thedailyaztec.com/Archive/Fall-2002/11-19-02/opinion/opinion02.html

Some of it makes some good points in the link above. I still hope that Episode III will be the darkest of them all. Just my thought but when darth vader becomes darth I kinda hope they show it like the hellraiser movies...In yoda voice "much pain and suffering...mmmm yess..."..

[danteort]

Originally posted by GRMac13
Well, it's been fun while it lasted, but I agree with AJE, this debate has hit a dead-end.
Agreed. :beer:

[googlo]

The new star wars movies aren't the same in feel and heart as the old ones, it's just that simple really. I think what happened is that Lucas just lost touch. All this talk about "oh, it's for kids, you were a kid then.." is just nonsense.

Personally, I just look at the new star wars movies as an old idea with a new remake, I stopped looking forward and anticipating a continuating story or sage after I saw Phantom Menance. I gave clone wars a second chance, but I after that, that I just realized I needed to stop thinking the new ones were going to be as good as the old ones. I kind of just look at them now as CG cannon fodder that's cool to watch and I just watch and take them as their own movies within their own right, but i don't personally feel like they are a true continuation of the star wars, they don't satisfy me in that way at all. It could be though if it were just done right. :(

For example. I saw Raider of the Lost Ark as a little kid and LOVED IT. I saw the next one, Temple of Doom, and loved it. Then as a young adult saw Last Crusade and still loved it!

So that whole 'you were kid then' is just nonsense. I've seen more passion and true-to-theme star war heart and feeling in fan mini-movies on the net! And their cg effects are crap!!

It's like the cg add-ons into the ET and the Old star wars movies. It made them silly!

Digital enhancement is awesome in old films when it involves CLEANING them up or fixing things like the green hue in the starfield backdrop out of the millenium falcon window. But interjecting complete scene add-ins or whatever ruins the film.

Like the way the CG ET was integrated into the movie. You have scenes between real ET models that don't look or move like the CG ET cutting in between each other.. C'mon!!! Such crappiness. It totally jolts you out of the story. It's the same with the how that was done in SW's stuff. CG Jabba isn't like model Jabba at all, in either personality or appearance.

It's just rediculious. I bet in the future when people look back in film history they will criticize our time period right now with CG overuse or misuse and movie production rush over quality. YOu know, like the way the movie era of the 40's and 50's are critiqued now, obviously in different ways though.

[JB]

Although I like the prequels, I do think they overdosed on the CG.

I was watching the appendice discs of LOTR extended edition, and I see that a lot of the great stuff I saw were models, I had no idea. In this day and age, I just assumed Rivendell, lothlorien, the argonath and such was all CG :surprised

I love that they used 'Bigatures', the detail and the lighting are just so much better. But then you use the computer to meld it all together.

:applause:

[Martyr]

This topic makes me ask some questions about my love for star wars, Im reading the new Insider and Rick McCallum talks about where there are now with episode 3, He say: "Remember everything has to be designed in a star wars world. Then you have to create its own culture, its technology, its look its costumes, its vehicules, what the props look like, what king of house peoples live in. This is stuff that'il never be in the movie, but you have to have the logic of each planet pretty well settled so everyone understand it".
Thas make me think Star wars is a world apart, its a world of creations and designs, what we see its I THINK a gigantesque art form...Its not an actor movie the actor are there to explain what's happenned, I am a huge fan but a certainly admit that in some scenes the actors have somes difficulties, In AOTC and in phantom menace and in the classical movie too...That is more visible these days because most of the scenes are not there its very difficult I think for a actor as famous as Ewan or Samuel as is it for the new commers like Nathalie and Hayden. That's not excuse everything but it excuse some important critics I can read here in this tread, Have you seen no one here talks about the bad acting of the cg character...Ok the dont exist and they are not human but every line they says as to be checked and directed as it is for the actors so I think that we can say the cg characters in movies today are actors, because of the amount of works not only in the creation processing but also in the way the interact with thes rest of the cast. Look in the the dvd "from puppet to pixels" when everyone try to make the yoda line BEGIN THE CLONES HAS... They tried to be as perfect as possible its like it was said by a true actor...

Star wars is a form of art!

PS:sorry for my english...

[Martyr]

http://starwars.com/episode-ii/feature/20021122/index.html

[Lunatique]

Reality check:

There have been countless number of people creating worlds before and after Lucas, and many of the are better--just not as famous. As we all know, popularity does not = quality. If popularity dictated quality, Britney Spears and Boyz II Men would be the greatest musicians ever lived. Scary thought, eh?

Everytime a Science-Fiction writer writes a new trilogy, or a new novel, he/she creates a whole new universe. Everytime a comic book creator starts a new series, he/she creates a new universe. Everytime a Japanese animation gets produced, a new universe is created. All of them are inhabited by characters, worlds, cultures, languages, histories..etc.

Star Wars is not some special case. George Lucas is not a special case. People have been doing this for a long time. Lucas just happend to be at the right place at the right time with the right idea, and it all snowballed to this gigantic, boring, money-making franchise.

I do like Idiana Jones though. Far more charming than the SW stuff.

A man that created Ewoks and thought up the atrocity that is called Jar Jar Binks, is not allowed to be called a genius. :shame:

[googlo]

I think the lack of technology in the 70's and 80's helped protect us from George lucas and George lucas from himself, but now, with the advent of CG where anything and everything is possible, we get unadulterated exposure to his mind and how things should be

[JB]

and it all snowballed to this gigantic, boring, money-making franchise.

Boring? :rolleyes:

[ambient-whisper]

Originally posted by Max_Power
Boring? :rolleyes:

yes, very:eek:

[Lunatique]

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
yes, very:eek:

Yep. I sat through Episode 1 and 2 thinking, "er... they spent HOW much money making this? WHY? Lucas has famous film directors as good friends. NONE of them told him his writing and directing sucks? Spielberg, Coppola, Milius..etc are all his buddies, and they all can write/direct circles around him. Don't they give him any constructive criticism?"

All that big budget should be given to other filmmakers that can't get funding for their films, instead of propagating a mediocre idea further. Why beat a dead horse when you can breed a superior species?

I would like to see Lucas use his power and wealth in the way that Spielberg has with Dreamworks. Create a breeding ground for young, talented, passionate, maverick filmmakers.

[ambient-whisper]

i dont think lucas was looking for any criticism
if you watched the dvd youll see that everywhere he goes hes getting his ass kissed. give criticism and you probably get fired. :)

if only his ego was smaller. and he let people criticize it while its in the making ..it could probably have evolved into something good.

[JB]

Originally posted by ambient-whisper
yes, very

Well I don't find it boring, and you can come up with as many ways to 'prove' me wrong as you want. This thread is pointless. Shame on me for posting in it :shame:

[moovieboy]

Yeah, yeah, I know... This thread's been beaten into the ground, dug up and re-beaten... but I still wish to add a couple points, only because I think there's been too few "non fx" point of views as to why EP I & II just "feel" to be lesser works... Coming from more of an acting, directing, and screenwriting background, here's my two-cents :D

Screenwriting:

I think we never give enough credit to Lawrence Kasdan, who CO-WROTE the screenplays for EMPIRE and JEDI with Lucas (as well as RAIDERS!).

Compare filmographies guys. Kasdan goes on to sizzle the screen with BODY HEAT or give us great character pieces like THE BIG CHILL... He even gives us the arguably great western, SILVERADO.

Lucas goes on to give us... THE EWOK ADVENTURES and YOUNG INDIANA JONES... and (gulp!) CAPTAIN EO????

Gee, fellas. Who do you think kept the Star Wars Universe from getting too childish (As in fart and stepping in poop jokes?!?), or made Han & Leia's romance more believable (i.e., more heart)? My money's on Kasdan, folks.

Lucas' work in the 80s proves he was already on this curve for "kiddie" stuff, and adopting kids of his own sure didn't help. When you're in your early 30s and you aim "young," you're thinking fast and cool. When you're in your 50s with kids of your own, aiming "young" changes to include poop jokes ... sigh.

The other major writing problem (more so in EP I): No Han, Chewie or Threepio. I don't mean Han as a kid. I mean what Han's character represents.

To explain, look at PHANTOM's main group of characters: Jedi Knights, Jedi councils, Queens, Senators, Chancellors, Royal advisors/bodyguards. These are ALL stiff characters, with big responsibilities and decisions and formalized language... The problem? NO SMUG SMUGGLER and his furry, oafish companion who could rip your arms out for losing at chess!!!

EPISODES IV - VI work better because you had Han, someone who looked at Obi Wan and said "Force Schmorse. Blow it out yer ass, you old coot." He'd call a princess "Your worshipfulness" and THEN kiss her.

By taking the air out of the other characters and these weird concepts, they became more acceptable to us. Imagine what Han Solo would have said about midichloreans! Probably the same thing we were thinking!

Also, Threepio being gone as much as he was from these past two episodes removed a major part of the magic as well. Artoo had no one to play off of, and a new character had to be made to do the slapstick... Enter Jar Jar and exit our lunches...

Whenever Threepio and Artoo did interact, I felt a bit of that old magic, even if the lines are more corny this time!

Acting problems:

There's been a little back and forth on puppets versus CG. Those of you who talk about all the bluescreens sucking the life out of the actors have an extremely valid point.

Look, pulling an extreme emotion out of your butt the moment a director says "action" is hard enough. Doing it for the 10th take, from the fourth camera angle, reacting to a scene that (on film) happened 2 minutes ago, but you haven't even shot that scene yet... That's f---ing excruciating on any actor.

Now, add on top of that a costume/period piece. Then add tougher lines, like Shakespearean dialogue. The Star Wars universe has both big costumes and its own language... Now, acting becomes that much tougher...

Then, take away the whole set and half the cast and tell the actors to "imagine" it all... Give them lines that are in desperate need of a re-write... And finally, give them a director who is NOT an actor's director. Someone who just says "Faster, bigger." and "It's pronounced NAH-BOO."

This is the freaking K-2 of acting. That's why the only ones who usually seem comfortable in them are the really young, with their ample imaginations and the older actors who have enough experience to draw from to overcome all these obstacles.

If Harrison Ford had to act opposite a guy wearing a construction hat with a wookie's head cut-out on top of it... I gaurantee his performance would've taken a few whacks and wouldn't have been as..."warm."

So, I personally don't agree that a CG Chewy would be more "expressive" than Mayhew in a suit. I think that's technolgical hubris and will be for some time...

What I took from "Puppets to Pixels" was that getting a "good take" from Yoda took a theatre full of techies months and almost drove the animators insane... The same thing in EMPIRE probably took Frank Oz and crew a minute, five tops.

Sheesh! I think I belted out a book here... Guess I must be a fan of the "Saga" warts and all :D

-Tom

[AJE]

Very well put Tom.

... And with those remarks I unsubscribe.

[GRMac13]

Very good argument moovieboy, that's exactly the kind of response I was looking for. It's weird but I actually agree with some of what you said. Except for the part about having a CG Chewy. Now don't get me wrong, I think Mayhew did an excellent job considering his limitations in the suit, his body language sold that character. And I do agree that Ford's performance may have taken a hit by acting opposite a CG Chewbacca, but Peter's would have only been amplified. Imagine if Chewy was able to smile, or frown or furrow his brow in confusion in addition to his trademark head-tilt. It's those little nuances that were missing in the suit and that CG facial animation could have provided to just kick that performance up a notch, but that's just my opinion.

On a side note, I just got the Ep II DVD today, and I noticed something pretty interesting. During the battle on Geonosis, the Geonosian leader tells Count Dooku that "The Jedi must not discover our designs for the ultimate weapon." and he shuts off a 3D hologram displaying the Death Star. I didn't notice that when I saw it in the theater, did anyone else? I guess I was too engrossed in the ridiculous amount of FX that was being thrown at me.

[AWAKE]

No one post after me. I want to have the last word.

[ambient-whisper]

sorry

[Lunatique]

oops

[GRMac13]

Word.

[Joviex]

yup

[Flog]

:applause:
Encore movieboy

If Harrison Ford had to act opposite a guy wearing a construction hat with a wookie's head cut-out on top of it... I gaurantee his performance would've taken a few whacks and wouldn't have been as..."warm."

Exactly, and its even harder for the actor to imagine if all they have is basically a blue screen to interact with.

I mean when you saw Lea tied to Jabba, and then later when she chokes him, you can see her choke him. Or when she is petting Wickett The Ewok, you felt they existed.

The interaction between Han and Chewy is another prime example, a 7 foot guy in a costume still can rip your arms off. He was there, you felt like he was there.

And I think that helped our imaginations more, instead of being so distracted by CG.

I like the new films as well, but sometimes it feels like the CG is just splattered on the screen, especially in way of characters.

Just need to learn when to use it and when not to use it. Keep it balanced. Everything just looks to clean and perfect. In real life things aren't even that crisp or clean.

I mean look at LOTR. They use men dressed as Orcs and real life Hobbits. If Lucas was in charge, all the Orcs would be CG all the time, every shot, closeup and all. "Oops the elves has pointy ears, we must make him out of CG, heaven forbid us to make a costume and makeup to give him pointy ears" "Bilbo is 3 feet tall, well looks like him and the rest of the Hobbits need to be 3d"

"Filming on location, bleh, I don't want my actors getting dirty running outside. I'll just have the guys in the lab do it for me."

Balance Mr. Lucas. Balance!!! Please
I mean does everything have to be CG, go back to the good old days and combine todays elements as well. You can't tell me creating a CG explosion is more fun then actually blowing crap up. Blow some crap up, make a few more sets, fly the actors to funky locations, call Jim Hensons creature Factory or STan Winston and get busy on Episode 3

[Lunatique]

Haha, well, I guess the silvering lining in the cloud is this:

At least Lucas is not Michael Bay! :p

[Matt_Forcum]

wow. i go away for 4 days and this damned thing is still going! geez. isnt there something better to talk about...wait....I started this thread...that means I.....sigh....

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