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View Full Version : Goblin model (and a question on limitations)


comic-craig
11-08-2005, 11:45 PM
This is my first post to the game design section. I'm experimenting with normal mapping using Zbrush to Maya. This is a goblin character of my own design. I wanted something cute and threatening at the same time- and a bit eclectic. I appreciate crits and advice.

The stats:
3854 triangles
Normal Mapped 512 x 512
Color Mapped 512 x 512
Specular Map 512 x 512

I do have a question- how realistic are the above listed stats? With some sources I've checked it seems within reason for many game systems- but I'd like to get a second opinion. Sometimes I see work posted that has 1024 x 1024 maps and 10,000 triangles- and sometimes much smaller. I'd like to hear what studios look for in limitations. One thing- please only answer if you feel you have actual knowledge on the subject- but unfound guess work will only serve to confuse me.:)

Thanks for your help and discretion
Craig

pimeto
11-09-2005, 09:03 AM
for the model: 3854 triangles are a lot for that model, my advice is to keep optimizing the mesh.
its not that, the modern engines cant support the poly caunt, its because you dont need so much polys for that model.

for your question: theare ofcourse is the universal answer :)
it depends from the engine you make models for ;)
the engine supports a poly caunt in view, texture sizes etc...
you cant realy get answered on that question... (and a lot more questions)... it all depends on the engine you make the models ;)

SHEPEIRO
11-09-2005, 09:53 AM
it also depends on the system you are working on (handheld, current gen, next gen), and also what use the character is. for example, if its a main character then obviously you will want the highest quality possible, if its a generic character that may be duplicated alot (say the pedestrians in gta) then the quality(poly count map size) will be alot lower.

generally if you want to know whether your poly(triangles are preffered) or map quotas are correct (theoretically) then post them here with stated use and im sure you will be reasssured or corrected if needed.:)

Favian001
11-09-2005, 05:47 PM
Interesting design for a goblin. I would like to see more of a blend between the nose and the face textures, also maybe show some of his skin around the arms. It looks like he has a short sleeve shirt on. For being Z-brush it looks pretty cool. I would like to see multi-colored striped socks instead, that would rock! As far as the poly-count, I have heard from the way-side at Sony 3500 is about their limit for poly's, but I agree it does depend on the engine. I think you nailed it on the 512x512 texture maps, I can remember a few speakers saying that seemed to be the norm for games, again it would depend on the company and it's programers.

Brain Trepaning
11-09-2005, 07:20 PM
I'd suggest keeping it at 2500 polys until you know what engine it will be used for. The texture sizes are fine, regardless of an engine that could use higher res, that same engine could still use these. Not all engines use a normalsmap, though.

I bet the helmet would never fall off! :)

tin-tin
11-10-2005, 12:55 PM
Texture size on your model are just about right, 512x512 is quite common, just keep a higher res normalmap for display purpose's.

The only thing I can say about the model is you can make more use of the normalmap, like getting rid of polys without affecting the shape or silhohette of the model and let the normalmap do the rest of the detail e.g the ears can be optimised. The other thing is you might want to redo the spec map its a bit too shiny at the top.

comic-craig
11-10-2005, 05:54 PM
Thanks for the info folks. I agree with everyone- this model could be better optimized for lower poly. I would say that actually the model requires more polys then your typical humanoid, not less. I don't mean this as an excuse- it could be simplified, but the character has so many defined elements that require extra polys. Reducing in areas like the hands, feet, ears, and sword are definitely do-able. I'll get an update out soon.

I am mostly interested in texture specs- I see so many different texture settings. If this was a childrens game for the PSP, I might be looking at as low as 64 x 64- but I'm wondering what is the highest end that actually is used? Not in a Nex-Gen platform- but is 1024 ever used on a single character? and why? Or can I break it up into seperate 512 texures (like 256 for the face and 512 for the body). I'm guessing there is no exact answer for this.

Another question for normal mapping: Usually when texturing I re-use texture space as much as possible. I stack UV shells on top of each other, overlapping to get the most out of the texture space. For example- I don't flip the textures from left to right unless I need it to have an assymetrical look. Normal mapping doesn't seem to work with this idea- the map looks inverted on the opposite side. Is there a way around this- or should the map not overlap ever?

Craig

tin-tin
11-10-2005, 06:10 PM
Another question for normal mapping: Usually when texturing I re-use texture space as much as possible. I stack UV shells on top of each other, overlapping to get the most out of the texture space. For example- I don't flip the textures from left to right unless I need it to have an assymetrical look. Normal mapping doesn't seem to work with this idea- the map looks inverted on the opposite side. Is there a way around this- or should the map not overlap ever?

Craig

That depends on the engine or 3d app you use, most new engines support mirrored normalmap so overlapping Uv's are fine.

comic-craig
11-11-2005, 06:16 AM
Thanks for the info tintin. I hope I can trouble you with another question. I'm using maya 7.0 for my real time render- is there a setting in the hardware rendering that you are aware of that allows for a inverted normal map?


Craig

tin-tin
11-11-2005, 04:59 PM
I'm not a maya user so can't help you there. Being a max user I've had the same problem till I upgraded to max 7 which solved this problem.

I'm sure all the maya users will help you.

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