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agreenster
11-04-2005, 12:23 AM
http://movies.aol.com/movie/main.adp?mid=23202&sem=1&ncid=AOLMOV00170000000007

Thanks to Coop for emailing this to me today

Let the "A Bug's Life" and "Antz" copycat remarks begin, because this teaser is laden with (intentional?) rip-offs

pencil-head
11-04-2005, 12:44 AM
http://movies.aol.com/movie/main.adp?mid=23202&sem=1&ncid=AOLMOV00170000000007

Thanks to Coop for emailing this to me today

Let the "A Bug's Life" and "Antz" copycat remarks begin, because this teaser is laden with (intentional?) rip-offs


Visually they do look pretty similar.

worker_bee
11-04-2005, 06:47 AM
Wow that looks really good. I was expecting something like Barnyard or Jimmy Neutron but the look is really good. I was surprised.

Congrats to the guys down at DNA....nice work!!

:buttrock:

Brettzies
11-04-2005, 06:54 AM
Looks pretty good to me. Comparisons will be inevitable, but young kids may not have seen either Bug's or Antz. Wasn't Bug's like 1998 or something? Someone born that year will be seven or eight by the time this film comes out. May not even know what those two films are.

Animation is pretty nice as well. I like that non-ant bug who paints himself for the audition. Nice work from DNA. I wonder why they didn't get an opening slate like all the others? I expect they will put together a tight story.

Zerflag
11-06-2005, 12:05 AM
why the comparison to barnyard? it's not even the same studio.
that said, i saw the trailer for ant bully before chicken little last night. it looks like it could be funny.
another side note: what's with trailers these days telling viewers nothing about the movie?

slaughters
11-06-2005, 12:44 AM
... what's with trailers these days telling viewers nothing about the movie?Much prefered over trailers showing you every freaking good scene and one-liner from the movie.

Zerflag
11-06-2005, 12:46 AM
granted, still, i've noticed quite a slew of movie trailers that tell you absolutely nothing about the plot of the movie, just show you a couple of nifty looking bits.
i'm not neccesarily saying it's horrible, but it does seem to be a marked change from oh say, four years ago.

agreenster
11-06-2005, 02:20 AM
I remember seeing some old trailers from the 70's that are like 5 minutes long that pretty much tell you the ENTIRE story

Martin_G_3D
11-06-2005, 02:45 AM
Not so long ago most movie trailers did indeed show the best scenes and the best lines, very often those were the ONLY good scenes of the entire movie, and I think people don't trust such trailers anymore so they took a other approach

This is a teaser tho, will have to see how the trailer will be.

CG does look a lot like the Antz / A bugs life movies, but maybe that was intentional

Grgeon
11-06-2005, 02:49 AM
it's really weird that you say that bee. This teaser doesn't really show much. I thought it was just ok. i think the trailer will be a better indicator of this movie's potential. DNA is great though, so i think it will be great.

George

P.S. I agree that it does look like antz/bugs life, i guess cause it's a movie about ants! :)

Trenox
11-06-2005, 02:51 AM
i've noticed quite a slew of movie trailers that tell you absolutely nothing about the plot of the movie, just show you a couple of nifty looking bits.

That would be the very definition of a teaser - dont confuse the 2 ;)

erilaz
11-06-2005, 02:56 AM
I wonder how quickly media groups and Jack Thompson will target the word "bully" in the title and try and ban it. :D

tevih
11-06-2005, 03:04 AM
I love it when they don't show anything in the trailers! All I want the trailers to do is get me excited about the movie - I don't want the whole movie ruined in 30 seconds!

Shaderhacker
11-06-2005, 04:08 AM
Two things about this trailer:

1) I'm tired of the afro-american stereotyping in these movies. Why can't afro-american people or characters based on afro-american heritage be just regular people and not some "cool guy with shades that says yo" or hip-hop rapper? I couldn't stand the porcupine in chicken little who was absolutely unnecessary and didn't need to be in the movie and I can't stand these rapper Ants!! It's very offensive to the afro-american culture.

2) This trailer does indeed follow yet another rehashed idea - that is, Ants. Next year may be the first time people get tired of watching CG features with all the animal/insect-based CGs coming. It's going to get tired quickly. How many CGs do we have based on some kind of animal or insect now coming next year? Ice Age 2, Over the Hedge, Ant Bully, Barnyard, Open Season, and Flushed Away...hmm.. what else?

-M

JDex
11-06-2005, 04:25 AM
I'm with ya on the Rapper Ants. Of course, people who act/talk like that are all around us... in fact 3 are rapping out in the lobby of my Inn right now, and they're all caucasian.

Animations are always full of stereotypes... in many respects, afraid that that's the case be it insensitive or not.

PhantomDesign
11-06-2005, 05:55 AM
Movie trailers need to show just enough to capture my interest - theoretically there should be enough material in the first 13 of the movie to hold the audience's interest - so it seems to me that it would be ideal to try to limit your trailer to the first 1/3 of the movie.

fxjeane
11-06-2005, 07:39 AM
1) I'm tired of the afro-american stereotyping in these movies. Why can't afro-american people or characters based on afro-american heritage be just regular people and not some "cool guy with shades that says yo" or hip-hop rapper? I couldn't stand the porcupine in chicken little who was absolutely unnecessary and didn't need to be in the movie and I can't stand these rapper Ants!! It's very offensive to the afro-american culture.


Personally I am tired of people who love to blow things out of proportion. For everything you do or say someone can try to make it into an issue. Its like a Native-American trying to create an issue saying that the "red ant" joke is offensive them. Im sure there are plenty of other trully valid reasons to be offended than to let something as insignificant like those ants get to one.


2) This trailer does indeed follow yet another rehashed idea - that is, Ants. Next year may be the first time people get tired of watching CG features with all the animal/insect-based CGs coming. It's going to get tired quickly. How many CGs do we have based on some kind of animal or insect now coming next year? Ice Age 2, Over the Hedge, Ant Bully, Barnyard, Open Season, and Flushed Away...hmm.. what else?

This is another comment that I hear arround that I feel is just wrong. Since the begining of animation ANIMALS or INSECTS have always been a part of the scenario.. why? Because thats what animation allows you to do. To give life and character to things that usually dont have it. Otherwise just shoot the movie with real actors, its a lot faster and cheaper!!

Also, just because ants have been used before it doesnt mean that this story will be the same. How many movies have you seen where a guy falls in love with a girl that is out of his league and then he ends up getting her? Tons of times.. does this means that those movies should no be made again because its been done? Thats where the challenge comes to the writers.

How many animated pictures with dogs have there been (All dogs go to heaven, Lady and the Tramp, Oliver and company)? All three use dogs and they are very different and deal with diferent issues. Its not the fact that you are using the same breed of animal or type of insect that makes the movie seem repeated, its the sittuations, the characters. If you stop using types or breeds of characters that have already been used, you will run out characters to write about pretty soon.

Ant Bully presents a completely diferent story line than ANTZ or A Bugs Life. Those two movies have the same story line. "The under-dog,"nobody" of an ant that tries to prove to the colony that they are not a looser and end up saving the colony, proving himself, becomming popular and getting the princes ant". AB is nothing like that.

Martin_G_3D
11-06-2005, 01:12 PM
Two things about this trailer:

2) This trailer does indeed follow yet another rehashed idea - that is, Ants. Next year may be the first time people get tired of watching CG features with all the animal/insect-based CGs coming. It's going to get tired quickly. How many CGs do we have based on some kind of animal or insect now coming next year? Ice Age 2, Over the Hedge, Ant Bully, Barnyard, Open Season, and Flushed Away...hmm.. what else?

-M

Good point, I'm also worried about next year. A lot of CG movies coming out next year, and it's a potential doom year for CG if people get tired of it.

I'm glad Ratatouille got moved back to June 2007, as it was originally scheduled to come out in the same month as Flushed Away.

I'm not saying that I dont have faith in the quality of the movies. I'm just worried about how the general audience may respond to it.

Papa Lazarou
11-06-2005, 04:11 PM
It didn't get me excited. I could see many cat or dog movies being successful, but I just don't think that insects are as interesting(except perhaps to entemologists).

Other than that, I didn't find the jokes any good. I know this doesn't really show anything from the actual movie, but presumably it is similar to the tone the movie will take. What they really need is a trailer that shows how the setup for the movie differs from Antz. Judging by the synopsis (which to my mind seems to give away too much of the plot), they have quite a different sort of movie. But the trailer just looks like auditions for Antz.

Shaderhacker
11-06-2005, 05:32 PM
Those two rapper ants, what makes you think they are afro-american? Ive seen plenty of people from all walks of life try to be "gangsta" rapers. Add a couple of ants to that group of wanabes... that's mildly funny..

They are dude. If you don't believe me - take a poll and see how many afro-american people on these threads believe they are. Face it, the world stereotypes. And when they bring something like that into a CG feature - it's very obvious.



Also, just because ants have been used before it doesnt mean that this story will be the same. How many movies have you seen where a guy falls in love with a girl that is out of his league and then he ends up getting her? Tons of times.. does this means that those movies should no be made again because its been done? Thats where the challenge comes to the writers.

This is true. And I agree that animals was the foundation for which to bring out inspiration for the children. However, I just think that there are far too many CG features out now with only a small number of them having any original design or story. Let's just wait and see what the public thinks after next year.. ;)


-M

SheepFactory
11-06-2005, 05:45 PM
This looks great. Cant wait to see it.

agreenster
11-06-2005, 05:56 PM
Also, just because ants have been used before it doesnt mean that this story will be the same. How many movies have you seen where a guy falls in love with a girl that is out of his league and then he ends up getting her? Tons of times.. does this means that those movies should no be made again because its been done? Thats where the challenge comes to the writers.

How many animated pictures with dogs have there been (All dogs go to heaven, Lady and the Tramp, Oliver and company)? All three use dogs and they are very different and deal with diferent issues. Its not the fact that you are using the same breed of animal or type of insect that makes the movie seem repeated, its the sittuations, the characters. If you stop using types or breeds of characters that have already been used, you will run out characters to write about pretty soon.

Yes, but it still amazes me in the similarities in the design. Sure, I know, "how many different designs can there be for the same subject matter??" But still, its pretty much a 50-50 split between the styles of ABL and antz.

And then theres the concept of the outtakes themselves. Pixar invented the CG outtakes, complete with the marker "beep beep." (okay, Pixar didnt invent the beep beep, but they were the first to popularize them in this context between every outtake for an CG movie) And which movie was the first to use them? A Bug's Life.

The voice of the stinkbug when he says "Run, run I say" the first time is an eerily similar copy of Mantee (the praying mantis) from ABL. The Arnold impersonator is a take from the Stallone character from Antz. But I get it that they are parody-ing other movies at that point, so its forgivable

But the biggest one, the line where the red stinkbug says "I'm Okay!" is a direct ripoff from A Bug's Life when Flick delivers the same line in the same exact tone and inflection (the part when he smashes into the rock while floating on the dandelion). It's this that makes me wonder if they did all of this intentionally.

I'm not here to bash the film, because it does look pretty good, and its definitely well animated. (I like the tiny footsteps of the stinkbug when hes trying to get the part) But there's a reason it looks good--they borrow SO much! I just find it amazing that a feature film company would allow their designs and film direction to totally piggyback other films and not feel at all responsible for it. They're so similar in design that I wont be surprised if non-CG people think its a sequel. Because, afterall, its ANOTHER ANT movie! I mean, could you imagine if Blue Sky suddenly decided to make a film about a huge blue ogre who lives in a marsh with his talking pony? It's just kinda bizarre. I mean, at least ABL and Antz were in production at the same time.

But, I guess its just come to be expected these days. There were two fish movies, two ant movies, and two monster movies. And soon there will be two zoo-to-madagascar movies (Madagascar and The Wild), two Penguin movies, and two SuperHero movies (Incredibles and Meet the Robinsons) Am I forgetting any?

Shaderhacker
11-06-2005, 06:20 PM
I'm not here to bash the film, because it does look pretty good, and its definitely well animated. (I like the tiny footsteps of the stinkbug when hes trying to get the part) But there's a reason it looks good--they borrow SO much! I just find it amazing that a feature film company would allow their designs and film direction to totally piggyback other films and not feel at all responsible for it. They're so similar in design that I wont be surprised if non-CG people think its a sequel. Because, afterall, its ANOTHER ANT movie! I mean, could you imagine if Blue Sky suddenly decided to make a film about a huge blue ogre who lives in a marsh with his talking pony? It's just kinda bizarre. I mean, at least ABL and Antz were in production at the same time.

Darn you! I couldn't have said it better. :thumbsup:


But, I guess its just come to be expected these days. There were two fish movies, two ant movies, and two monster movies. And soon there will be two zoo-to-madagascar movies (Madagascar and The Wild), two Penguin movies, and two SuperHero movies (Incredibles and Meet the Robinsons) Am I forgetting any?

Actually the Robinsons isn't about superheros - just humans (which is getting way too picky). But you are forgetting Flushed Away and Ratetoulle (sp??). Hmm.. can we find any similarities in Barnyard, Over the Hedge, and Open Season other than just talking animals? Cars and Rapunzel are definitely a change and I'd have to say that Robots was too.

-M

HellBoy
11-06-2005, 06:30 PM
This really is good, the previous ants was one of my favourite

kees
11-06-2005, 06:44 PM
The ants do look a LOT like the ants from ...Ants.

But other then that, the story of the movie sounds like it's going to be completely different then any of those two 'ant' movies. Looking forward to it myself.

Does anybody know if this movie is mostly aimed at kids, or are they attempting something more like Shrek, which also entertains adults?

-Kees

magron
11-06-2005, 06:50 PM
.. I just saw it as the unemployed insects from Antz and A Bugs Life auditioning for this new ant movie.

Brettzies
11-06-2005, 09:52 PM
magron and agreenster have interesting takes on this teaser. I guess you can look at it either way, though agreenster makes a strong case. However, if you see it from Magron's point of view, it blows the other argument out of the water because it's all in jest. Who knows, it didn't bug me when I saw it the first time...ooops.

I do know the story is/was probably equal ant and human though, should be completely different from ABL and Antz. But, like I said before, the comparisons will be inevitable, especially on a site like this. It is just a teaser after all.

Avi T
11-06-2005, 10:07 PM
As far as movies being copies of other because they have characters that are animals or humans. You can't expect people to not use this types of characters because somebody else got lucky enough to do it first. If people form all their story ideas then disect them to try and change them so they have no simlarities with anything else, we'll soon be watching films about toothpicks that come to life because they don't like being in peoples' mouths. Stories are really all very similar, it the differences and twists in the story that make it new and unique.

Thus, just because this is a movie about ants like Antz and A Bug's Life and because Ice Age 2, Open Season and Over the Hedge all star animals doesn't mean they're all the same. If you base things on that, then go to a couple of the old Disney movies and say "since their all about princesses they're all the same thing".

So, with all that stated, I just want to say that although this trailer did have it's spoofing moments, it had some funny gags (personally, I enjoy that the bug painted himself) and seems to have the potential to be good.

(I hope I didn't start an unneeded argument)

Slurry
11-06-2005, 10:14 PM
They are dude. If you don't believe me - take a poll and see how many afro-american people on these threads believe they are. Face it, the world stereotypes. And when they bring something like that into a CG feature - it's very obvious....

-M

I don't know. If it was an african-american character acting like that then I think you'd have a point.
But it's an ant.
It's definitely a stereotype of rappers though. Rappers should be offended!
It seems to me that if any african-americans are offended by that, perhaps it is they who are applying the stereotype of rapper=black.
White rappers, east-indian rappers, asian rappers, all seem to share certain mannerisms.
I dunno though. Just my thoughts.
I certainly didn't associate the porcupine from Chicken Little with any race. I do agree though, I didn't like him as a character and thought he was unnecessary and dull.

Art :)

kujo79
11-07-2005, 12:52 AM
I beleive thats the pixar "cut" sound too in between takes, why dont we start saying how they are directly copying pixar sounds.

I think that there is a challenge with coming up with original characters that we arent seeing lately. Dont get me wrong, i would go see as many ants, toys, robot movies as possible as long as the story is original. But one of the reasons my favorite CG film is Monsters Inc. is because every part of that film is original. I much prefer someone take a great story and apply it to some new....fresh character then something we have seen before. Although if the story is good....ull see me first in line at the theater.

FloydBishop
11-07-2005, 01:23 AM
But one of the reasons my favorite CG film is Monsters Inc. is because every part of that film is original.

The sequence in "Monsters Inc" where Sully thinks Boo goes into the trash compactor is almost a shot for shot homage to the 1952 Chuck Jones cartoon "Feed the Kitty".

http://www.nonstick.com/wpics/fk_marca.jpg

Shaderhacker
11-07-2005, 01:54 AM
I don't know. If it was an african-american character acting like that then I think you'd have a point.
But it's an ant.
It's definitely a stereotype of rappers though. Rappers should be offended!
It seems to me that if any african-americans are offended by that, perhaps it is they who are applying the stereotype of rapper=black.

I think we live in a society that doesn't want to except certain things. One of them is stereotyping. Blacks started rap and the majority of rappers are black. Being black, I am offended by the inclusion of a supposed afro-american based character (whether it be a bug that's textured brown to resemble afro-american people, animal or robot) that does nothing but do the things society *expects* of a black person. Sure more races are rapping, but the majority of society equates rapping as being a popular afro-american gig.

When they make an afro-american based character that's a genius or is smart at making things or being a hero, then I'll recant my impressions of society.

As it stands, my family will not support any CG features that come out with this kind of image of afro-american people.


-M

Stahlberg
11-07-2005, 02:12 AM
majority of rappers are black
Are you sure? considering how many rappers there are in Asia alone? Any country, any language, you name it and it's got its rappers... like jazz and blues, it crosses all borders...

When they make an afro-american based character that's a genius or is smart at making things or being a hero
You mean in cg? Or in live action movies? Because I've seen many of those in live action...

Shaderhacker
11-07-2005, 02:31 AM
Are you sure? considering how many rappers there are in Asia alone? Any country, any language, you name it and it's got its rappers... like jazz and blues, it crosses all borders...

The asian community knew nothing about rap back in the 80s. I'm not talking about the spread of the art of rapping.


You mean in cg? Or in live action movies? Because I've seen many of those in live action...

I'm speaking of CG right now.

Brettzies
11-07-2005, 02:34 AM
When they make an afro-american based character that's a genius or is smart at making things or being a hero, then I'll recant my impressions of society.I see where you are coming from, but I think they are making fun of the wanna-be rapper. More like an Ali-G type. Try as they might, real people like that never come off as authentic, usually just sad. There's a very interesting yet sad movie called WhiteBoys about a white kid from Iowa fascinated with and glamorizing the gasta rapper life style. This is the type of person they are personifying in my opinion.

Don't forget about Frozone! Donkey...well, he was an ass. Come to think of it, they are both sidekicks so that won't make you happy. The Bear in OpenSeason is voiced by Martin Larwrence, and he's pretty much the man in that movie. But....he's a grizzly bear, not a black bear.

I don't know. Society gets bent out shape too easily these days. Sometimes it's justified and sometimes its reaching. Like those "Japanese" aliens in Episode I. There's always something for someone to get pissed off about.

Shaderhacker
11-07-2005, 02:39 AM
I see where you are coming from, but I think they are making fun of the wanna-be rapper. More like an Ali-G type. Try as they might, real people like that never come off as authentic, usually just sad. There's a very interesting yet sad movie called WhiteBoys about a white kid from Iowa fascinated with and glamorizing the gasta rapper life style. This is the type of person they are personifying in my opinion.

The only problem is the ants are textured to imitate a black person not a white person. So I disagree here.


Don't forget about Frozone!

As cool as the idea of Frozone, he wasn't even needed to keep that story together. But that's another topic.. ;)


I don't know. Society gets bent out shape too easily these days. Sometimes it's justified and sometimes its reaching. Like those "Japanese" aliens in Episode I. There's always something for someone to get pissed off about.

Well, maybe *you* feel like that. I can't easily brush it off as being too "sensitive" since it's my race that's in the spotlight.

-M

Slurry
11-07-2005, 02:41 AM
Hey Shaderhacker,

I totally understand where you are coming from and I sympathise with your point of view. I also respect you for taking a stand on it.
But I wonder, how else would they portray a rap character (regardless of race)?

Art

Slurry
11-07-2005, 02:42 AM
Hey you posted just before me - I didn't see your last reply.

I didn't notice the texturing before, I'll have a closer look next time.

Art


EDIT - Ok, yeah, I totally see what you mean now. They were definitely shaded darker.

Brettzies
11-07-2005, 04:15 AM
The only problem is the ants are textured to imitate a black person not a white person. So I disagree here.
Well, maybe *you* feel like that. I can't easily brush it off as being too "sensitive" since it's my race that's in the spotlight.Texturing does seem different then the other ants. I don't know what to say to that, I guess we'll assume the intention was for them to be black. If it offends you, it offends you. I can never put myself in your shoes and see if from your eyes. I will say that there are many racial occurances that offend me all the time to varying degrees, this just isn't one of them. If anything, I'd say it's over-done and not that original.

It's a complex issue when you start to talk about race, reality, humor, art, and ants. Mix all those together and someone's bound to get upset whether it's unintentional or not. Things are so sensitive in this day and age, it's almost taboo to even debate.

Kimotion
11-07-2005, 05:54 AM
Are you sure? considering how many rappers there are in Asia alone? Any country, any language, you name it and it's got its rappers... like jazz and blues, it crosses all borders...


When Asians "rap" they are just imitating what is "cool" in the West without a single thought or interest of why that art form came about. Maybe it evolved into their own style, but it needs to be noted that it evolved solely out of imitation without taking into account the roots of rap. When I see them trying to rap with little girls screaming in admiration, I feel embarrassed for the whole continent.

As for Ant Bully, I'm still trying to get my computer to properly view that teaser.

Antonbomb22
11-07-2005, 11:30 AM
i am more baffled that Disney has yet to unleash its corporate lawyers on Warner Bros or that Dreamworks has done nothing. Seriously Warner Bros. is completely ripping off those movies and an injunction should be filed against them. someone is going to respond saying "there are only so many looks for characters of particular genre" but hey they went ahead purposefully with creating this feature knowing of the success of both "Antz" and "A Bug's Life" which Warner Bros. hope to monopolize on a audience believing it is a continuation or some relation to either of two mentioned above. What Sony is doing is better, a unique story that has not been done before. However, some good points were brought up. The CG market is becoming overly saturated especially seeing both Sony and Warner Bros. becoming late starters who are desperate to reach younger audiences.

jeremybirn
11-07-2005, 12:26 PM
I found a downloadable copy of that teaser:
http://pdl.stream.aol.com/aol/us/moviefone/movies/2005/antbully_023202/antbullythe_trlr_01_dl.mov
(link from http://www.themovieinsider.com/multimedia/top.php?mid=2706 )

Now that I watch it, I see what people meant about the black rapper ants. Hopefully they are just portrayed that way in this teaser, not in the movie.

-jeremy

kujo79
11-07-2005, 03:23 PM
The sequence in "Monsters Inc" where Sully thinks Boo goes into the trash compactor is almost a shot for shot homage to the 1952 Chuck Jones cartoon "Feed the Kitty".


Interesting, I didnt know that. Although I hardely think this homage is comparable to designing similar characters....or using similar plots. I tend to agree that there are alot of cg films being released with lack of creation. just my opinion though

t-toe
11-07-2005, 03:58 PM
**SARCASM**
I, for one am sick of the cultural stereotyping of GERMANS in CG! look at Heimlich in A Bug's Life. he was OBVIOUSLY a stereotype of a german, and it makes me sick!

and don't forget the stereotyping of ITALIANS in The Lion King? Pumba farting and being stupid? oh my gosh!
**END SARCASM**

oh, did those not bother you? I'm sorry. they didn't bother me either. ya know why? 'cause they weren't meant to give us an accurate look into a culture or a group of people. they were caricatures. they were funny.

so, I'm truly and deeply sorry if the ant rappers offended you (I'm being serious here). but I can guarantee you that wasn't their intention.

darktding
11-07-2005, 04:11 PM
good one t-toe, I totally agree sometime people need to chill and take life easy, if someone makes fun of your culture or race take it whole heartedly and give that person his/her dues if everyone else around you laughs.
Making jokes are tough and sometimes it gets repeated and people need to simply realize the world isnt always making fun of your race or culture but rather just simply to have a good time and enjoy.
Look at the hbo stand up comedy show, they make fun of every race and creed but you see people in the audience laughing...
So please dont make a fool of yourself by complaining on black ants... yes they are black and yes they were making fun of them but its all for a good laugh.

oh god fobid if the kid in the movie is a middle eastern brown colored skin kid, that would like raise an uproar here in the forums!:scream:

toonpang
11-07-2005, 04:21 PM
Being black, I am offended by the inclusion of a supposed afro-american based character (whether it be a bug that's textured brown to resemble afro-american people, animal or robot) that does nothing but do the things society *expects* of a black person. Sure more races are rapping, but the majority of society equates rapping as being a popular afro-american gig.

When they make an afro-american based character that's a genius or is smart at making things or being a hero, then I'll recant my impressions of society. -M

Being white, I completely agree with you. I'm tired of seeing it too. Especially since its most likely that ignorant white people will get a cheap chuckle out of it. It seems to often I have to look over at my fellow white people and feel ashamed for crap like this.

On another note though, do you watch 24? I freakin loved that they had a black man win the presidency. And he was the most honest, tough, caring guy you could ever hope to lead any country. Now that was something nice to see IMO. If you have seen it, what was your take on it?

-Kevin

Shaderhacker
11-07-2005, 04:40 PM
good one t-toe, I totally agree sometime people need to chill and take life easy, if someone makes fun of your culture or race take it whole heartedly and give that person his/her dues if everyone else around you laughs.

Some of you guys are beginning to tick me off so I'll step away from this thread. If you aren't from a afro-american culture, you could never totally understand my anger. And that's all I have to say about that...

Cheers,

-M

agreenster
11-07-2005, 04:58 PM
C'mon guys, let's stick to bashing the copy-cat studios and the industry, not racial minorities! ;)

Antonbomb22
11-07-2005, 05:14 PM
C'mon guys, let's stick to bashing the copy-cat studios and the industry, not racial minorities! ;)
yes cause i want to kick Warner Bros. ass!

Slurry
11-07-2005, 05:36 PM
**SARCASM**
and don't forget the stereotyping of ITALIANS in The Lion King? Pumba farting and being stupid? oh my gosh!
**END SARCASM**

Pumba was Italian?? WTF? I thought all the animals were African. Go figure.

:D

Art

thematt
11-07-2005, 06:00 PM
looks pretty good to me too, aniamtion is top notch.

But I have to agree, it's totally inspired in term of rendering to Bug's life..that's almost crazy how similar it looks. but hey pixar is the standart, so copying master isn't that bad.

I'll go see that one too.

cheers

FloydBishop
11-07-2005, 07:03 PM
Wow. That really was like a combination of "Antz" and "A Bug's Life". I thought they might make the characters look more like the book that the film is based on.

The animation looks really nice. I'll go see this movie. It's going to be impossible to prevent the comparisons to the other bug movies. Hopefully there is something about this film that sets it apart. I guess we'll see when it's released.

Nice stuff, DNA! :buttrock:

Novadesigns
11-07-2005, 07:37 PM
You guys won't be comparing "The Ant Bully" to these 8-year-old movies once you see this film. The story is entirely different--as are the characters. I don't see that "Antz" and "A Bug's Life" were used in any way to design these characters. In fact most of the insects in "A Bug's Life" were 4-limbed had huge heads and were bi-pedal! And the ants in "Antz" were, again, more like caricatures than insect characters. They always walked upright (even though they had 6 legs they moved as though they had only 4), they were misproportioned (big heads, tiny thorax and miniscule abdomens--very UN-ant-like, IMO) I think these new ants look and move much more insect like... even the eyes are more insect-like.

Also, keep in mind there is only so far you can take an insect and anthropomorphize it to make it look more human (for emotional expression and audience relation) before they all start too look the same. its a limitation of the material--you can thank the big studios for setting that precendence. But you have to give DNA credit and not crticism for taking this look to a higher level... and for being able to render an overall quality that is on par with giants like Pixar and Dreamworks... keep in mind DNA is a very small company with only a small fraction of the staff of those places.

c-g
11-07-2005, 07:52 PM
Personally I am tired of people who love to blow things out of proportion. For everything you do or say someone can try to make it into an issue. Its idiotic! Its like a Native-American trying to create an issue saying that the "red ant" joke is offensive them. GET A LIFE!

Wow, you are quite an ass aren't you? If someone is offended by something you think the answer is for them to shut up?

Here is a thought. If my comment above offends you, don't reply to it. You would be blowing it out of proportion.

agreenster
11-07-2005, 08:04 PM
You guys won't be comparing "The Ant Bully" to these 8-year-old movies once you see this film. The story is entirely different--as are the characters. I don't see that "Antz" and "A Bug's Life" were used in any way to design these characters. In fact most of the insects in "A Bug's Life" were 4-limbed had huge heads and were bi-pedal! And the ants in "Antz" were, again, more like caricatures than insect characters. They always walked upright (even though they had 6 legs they moved as though they had only 4), they were misproportioned (big heads, tiny thorax and miniscule abdomens--very UN-ant-like, IMO) I think these new ants look and move much more insect like... even the eyes are more insect-like.

Also, keep in mind there is only so far you can take an insect and anthropomorphize it to make it look more human (for emotional expression and audience relation) before they all start too look the same. its a limitation of the material--you can thank the big studios for setting that precendence. But you have to give DNA credit and not crticism for taking this look to a higher level... and for being able to render an overall quality that is on par with giants like Pixar and Dreamworks... keep in mind DNA is a very small company with only a small fraction of the staff of those places.

I already said earlier that you can only go so far with a range in designs because, afterall, they are still ants. But please, Antz and Ant Bully have some VERY similar looking characters. See attached pic. I mean, almost identical. There's no denying that.

And keep in mind that 8 years ago Pixar's staff probably equaled DNA's current number, and they were using tech that was, afterall, 8 years old. And isnt DNA using RenderMan? So we should credit them for using PDI's designs and using Pixars rendering solution with a decade newer hardware system?

And as far as the "higher level" comment goes, I think it might be fair to say A Bug's Life had some better looking stuff 8 years ago. Again, see attached pic. Not knocking Ant Bully, but I sensed tone in your "8-year-old-movie" comment.

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I simply feel that your post about how these arent copies needed a response. I honestly believe that this story will be completely different, I'm just shocked they took the art direction in the exact same path as two previous CG films. There many, many different ways they could have gone. Do you work for DNA?

Slurry
11-07-2005, 08:55 PM
Ya, the style of this looks a lot like Antz, swollen abdomen or not. The auditions are reminicsent of the Bug's Life outtakes...For those reasons, the trailer did nothing for me. But the regular public will be less fickle than us.

I think it's just an unfortunate way to start propmoting the film. The movie may be completely different on it's own, and it's simply the promotional material that is associated with the other movies.
I find it hard to belive that it is coincidental. Perhaps WB want the film to have a link to the two very successful insect predecessors.
:shrug:
Other than the undeniable similarities to Antz and Bug's Life, it looked great. It's too bad that those similarities are over shadowing the great woek DNA has done.
Good work from DNA though. This is very exciting to see smaller studios competing on the big playing field. I wish you great success!


Art

Brettzies
11-07-2005, 09:11 PM
And as far as the "higher level" comment goes, I think it might be fair to say A Bug's Life had some better looking stuff 8 years ago. Again, see attached pic. Not knocking Ant Bully, but I sensed tone in your "8-year-old-movie" comment.Saw the teaser in front of Chicken Little last night. It did look much better then that double postage stamp thing we've been looking at. It's just so much clearer and more detailed seeing it on the big screen. It also "feels" more like it's intended because at that size the framing is more appealing on full body shots. I have to say, it did really look nice big. I was shocked at the difference almost.

No matter how differnent the films are, there are still going to be similarities. Just have to wait and see, and enjoy it for what it is. Same goes for the overall look.

agreenster
11-07-2005, 09:25 PM
I think it's just an unfortunate way to start propmoting the film. The movie may be completely different on it's own, and it's simply the promotional material that is associated with the other movies.
I find it hard to belive that it is coincidental. Perhaps WB want the film to have a link to the two very successful insect predecessors.

Other than the undeniable similarities to Antz and Bug's Life, it looked great. It's too bad that those similarities are over shadowing the great woek DNA has done.
Good work from DNA though. This is very exciting to see smaller studios competing on the big playing field. I wish you great success!


Art

Quoted for agreement on all counts

Novadesigns
11-07-2005, 10:13 PM
Well, agreenster, I'm not going to get in to a protracted and ultimately fruitless debate with you about the look, but I think you are being a little unfair. Your image, if it proves anything at all, is that ants look a lot like ants. But other than the fact that they are both ants they don't look any more alike that two average people standing side by side. Are you all going to suggest that one human character is ripped off from another human character simply because they are both human characters? There's no denying that they are both ants with six legs and a three-part body, but beyond that I see more differences than similarities.

Once again, ants are going to look at like ants, if you stylize things too much you end up with something very far away from what you are trying to portray.

agreenster, you and a few others clearly have some agenda in proclaiming that DNA has stolen another studio's designs and there should be some sort of litigation. That's your opinion. but its extreme. And typical of this board. However this movie very likely would not have been made if Pixar, Disney, or Dreamworks felt that their designs had been plagiarized. None of those studios would hesitate to sue, believe me!

So, if they don't think there's a problem, then shouldn't that be enough for you? ;)

The reason I pointed out that those movies were made 8 years ago was to show that there doesn't seem to be any reason to copy them. The tidal wave of their success (if there ever was one) has clearly passed. If anything, one would think if any animation studio were jumping on any particular pop-culture bandwagon it would be with furry chipmonks, robots, or maybe sharks. Dreamworks and Pixar have been ripping each other off for years... very obviously, but everyone loves their movies.

Instead of the negative supposition that Warner Bros is trying to capitalize on another studio's 8-year-old success, how about this idea? Perhaps DNA thinks that "Antz" and "A Bug's Life" are far enough in the past that audiences might be more open-minded to a fresh approach with these types of characters.

Here's another novel idea... how about instead of worrying about who invented the ant, we see if the story is any good. After all, isn't that the number one complaint about most CG animated movies?

HellBoy
11-07-2005, 10:57 PM
Now, whenever Rap is nowadays mentioned, things go off topic, its like its the new politics, anyways, the ant with Arnold accent, is it him, is it Arnold voice acting?

agreenster
11-07-2005, 11:22 PM
agreenster, you and a few others clearly have some agenda in proclaiming that DNA has stolen another studio's designs and there should be some sort of litigation.

Easy turbo! I have absolutley NO agenda. I'm in the games industry so I dont care at all about the success or failure of this film. I'm just talking, and as most people who know me know, I tend to do a lot of it. I dont think anyone should be sued (did I even say that?), I was just expressing my surprise that DNA/Warner decided to go this route in their art direction when it's been done twice before. They arent BAD or WRONG, I'm just surprised. And yeah, artistically, they could have COMPLETELY gone a different route. Artists can come up with some crazy-amazing stuff when let loose. Imagine if Tim Burton would have led the art direction in this film? The characters would have looked NOTHING like Antz or ABL. (not to say that would have been the right choice, Im just illustrating how different choices by art directors can lead to DRASTICALLY different results)

I think it's fair to say they settled for a known, proven style. Do you really think it didnt cross the concept artist's minds when they were designing these characters that they looked a LOT like ANTZ and ABL? It HAD to be a conscious decision. No one at DNA was like "Oh crap" 6 months down the road in production, after someone dusted off a copy of ABL and popped it in. They knew.

And hey, this isnt personal. I've tried to be professional in discussing a real subject with real facts and opinions, without naming names and pointing fingers. I only asked if you worked at DNA, which is a legit question. I have all the respect for those peeps (I mean, come on, Keith Lango and Michael Comet work there!) I'm simply discussing the subject. Im sure that this film has all the potential in the world to be successful, and for the sake of the industry, I hope it is. Seriously dude, its all good

I hope it's clear that I dont think that DNA is a BAD studio, or their designs are bad--they've obviously done a great job. Im just surprised, thats all. In fact, I would say the same thing if Pixar decided to relase a movie about Robots. You'd better believe it. Would it suck? No. Would I be surprised? Yup.

PhantomDesign
11-08-2005, 12:08 AM
Stereotyping can be used as an element of humor. Anyone who's played GTA:SA should know what I'm talking about - they had a ridiculous number of stereotypes. Actually, every GTA (back to GTA2) had stereotype humor ("Elvis has left the Building!"). I haven't watched the trailer, but that's just my 2-copper.

fxjeane
11-08-2005, 12:36 AM
Wow, you are quite an ass aren't you? If someone is offended by something you think the answer is for them to shut up?

Here is a thought. If my comment above offends you, don't reply to it. You would be blowing it out of proportion.

Well, Im sorry you think that. Honestly, you are the first person in my life that has ever refered to me as an ass (at least to my face:) ). That is your entitled oppinion, and I will respect it.

I just wanted to comment on how some people get offended over very simple stuff. I DONT think someone should shut up if they are offended, not at all. But there are many out there who are always looking for something offensive to them. Its this kind of behavior that has some societies on the edge. for example, on these forums I must use the term "African-American" so that I dont soud offensive or as a jerk. But when Im talking with my "African-American" friends I dont use that term, I use "black" with all freedom and confidence. They know that Im not offending them and they dont take offense for me using the word black. Just as I dont spect them to reffer to me as a "Spanish-German Latino", im just a "latino", and there is no offense on calling me that.:)

I will stop now because this is a very delicate matter and I forgot how easy it is to be missunderstood on a post (instead of when you are actually talking). If I offended anyone else out there, im sorry. I was just trying to promote the idea of "reducing the tensions" on the whole race thing. But maybe we are still no ready for that idea.

Take care everyone!
Keep making some good CG

fromage_robotica
11-09-2005, 02:42 PM
Higher res, non-AOL version of the trailer is now online!

www.theantbully.com (http://theantbully.warnerbros.com/)

Guaranteed to be 25% less controversial and 10% more original in hi res QuickTime. Now that would sweet if we could only get one of those HD H.264 jobbers that they have over at Apple.


BTW - SPOILER WARNING - Stay away from the synopsis that is posted on the Ant Bully site.

flipnap
11-09-2005, 07:09 PM
hmm interesting.. i wouldve loved to see clips from the actual movie though, guess ill wait. (rest of post killed by me - sorry- too much rambling)

slaughters
11-09-2005, 08:42 PM
Thought better of my original comment - it did nothing to further the discussion and would have sent Shaderhacker off onto another anger-ridden diatribe. Suffice it to say that I really dislike racists.

Antonbomb22
11-09-2005, 09:10 PM
just so everyone knows my stance, i put no blame on DNA. i blame Warner Bros. who with its connections conciously knew it would resemble two previous films and would confuse the consumer. such a tactic is unethical. DNA has no control over this and I understand. Warner Bros. are the wrong doers here who will prey on the presumptions of consumers in order to turn a profit.

j alan hawkins
11-10-2005, 12:25 AM
"BTW - SPOILER WARNING - Stay away from the synopsis that is posted on the Ant Bully site."

all that did was made me go read it right away

: )

switchblade327
11-10-2005, 09:36 AM
This is another comment that I hear arround that I feel is just wrong. Since the begining of animation ANIMALS or INSECTS have always been a part of the scenario.. why? Because thats what animation allows you to do. To give life and character to things that usually dont have it. Otherwise just shoot the movie with real actors, its a lot faster and cheaper!!

Also, just because ants have been used before it doesnt mean that this story will be the same. How many movies have you seen where a guy falls in love with a girl that is out of his league and then he ends up getting her? Tons of times.. does this means that those movies should no be made again because its been done? Thats where the challenge comes to the writers.

How many animated pictures with dogs have there been (All dogs go to heaven, Lady and the Tramp, Oliver and company)? All three use dogs and they are very different and deal with diferent issues. Its not the fact that you are using the same breed of animal or type of insect that makes the movie seem repeated, its the sittuations, the characters. If you stop using types or breeds of characters that have already been used, you will run out characters to write about pretty soon.

I'd have to sort of disagree with you both here. Animals have been used in animation since the beginning but bugs don't seem to be quite so common. I don't think it's at all unoriginal to make a CG feature starring animals for the same reasons mentioned above. After all, you can only watch 'Babe: Pig in the City' and 'The Incredible Journey' so many times, right? :P Have any Disney films NOT had animated animals in them? And no one complains.

But I wouldn't call ants a staple animal of animation and even if the the story is good and different in "Ant Bully", its always going to feel a little unoriginal. It does look like it was well done though, artistically speaking.

What I really don't get is bug movies in the first place. I loved Toy Story but I almost didn't see "a Bug's Life" back then because I just hate bugs. I could watch lots of movies starring animated dogs and cats because they're cute and I've never found my kitchen infested with them. But ants are crappy, disgusting animals. And this just reinforces the idea to me that it's not original since no one would make a movie about bugs unless it was a proven formula. Though I guess it's a tribute to the studio that can make a bug movie that doesn't give people the willies.

Now when do we get to see a movie with a cockroach protagonist?

As for the other thing... I wonder what would be the correct way to portray an ant rapper that wasn't racially offensive?

Pentagramma
11-10-2005, 03:08 PM
What I really don't get is bug movies in the first place. I loved Toy Story but I almost didn't see "a Bug's Life" back then because I just hate bugs. I could watch lots of movies starring animated dogs and cats because they're cute and I've never found my kitchen infested with them. But ants are crappy, disgusting animals. And this just reinforces the idea to me that it's not original since no one would make a movie about bugs unless it was a proven formula. Though I guess it's a tribute to the studio that can make a bug movie that doesn't give people the willies.

I have to disagree with you a bit, there. Usually, kids love bugs - many times for the same reasons you hate them! :)

So, it's not unusual to make a film about the little critters. I guess what many people are criticising here are the similarities between the characters on the teaser, and other animated bugs. Personally, I think it's all part of the joke of the teaser, and it's on purpose. I believe the film will be very different in tone to the other "insects films".

Anyway, ants and bugs apart, I really liked the animation and the boy character ( I also read the synopsis, after that tempting spoiler warning! :twisted: ), and the story sounds really good, and fun. Also, the cast is great, with very strong actors (Paul Giamatti as the bad guy is a clever idea).

Hope all the best for our brothers and sisters at DNA. Keep the great work, folks!

Stahlberg
11-10-2005, 05:36 PM
Now when do we get to see a movie with a cockroach protagonist?
Already done, "Joe's Apartment" from -96 - a 'comedy' about talking roaches. Although only the bugs are cg.
(If you never seen it, don't, it's pure torture)

FloydBishop
11-10-2005, 06:25 PM
Already done, "Joe's Apartment" from -96 - a 'comedy' about talking roaches. Although only the bugs are cg.
(If you never seen it, don't, it's pure torture)

And a few years later, some of the same crew did "Ice Age".

http://www.awn.com/mag/issue1.6/images/DilworthApt2.gif

The following quote comes from here: http://www.awn.com/mag/issue1.6/articles/diljoe1.6.html

Technically, the execution of the cockroaches is very well done. In a decade when special effects dominate the box office, Joe's Apartment stands alongside the best, including Twister and Independence Day. The CGI animation of the insects was done by Blue Sky Productions in New York. Chris Wedge was the director of animation and his team worked from storyboards created by Payson and Dan Shefelman. The design of the roaches required actually reproducing the anatomy of a cockroach. Small liberties were taken to give the designs more flexibility when animated, but the final composited product results in convincing the audience they're not watching CGI.

With 14 artists, Blue Sky created 200 shots requiring CGI--the longest shot took one-and-a-half months to complete and it was only five seconds long. In order to scatter hundreds of cockroaches at one time, the company created a program that enabled them to duplicate a cockroach as many times as needed to follow a determined path, called flocking software. Also of note are the two stop motion shots created by Peter Wallach and Fly Films in New York. To fill in the total effect, "roach wrangler" Ray Mendez brought in several thousand live cockroaches.

switchblade327
11-10-2005, 07:17 PM
Already done, "Joe's Apartment" from -96 - a 'comedy' about talking roaches. Although only the bugs are cg.
(If you never seen it, don't, it's pure torture)

I remember Joe's Apartment, both the shorts and the film, though I never saw the film specifically because of the roaches. Roaches are gross, no matter how well animated :)

CaptRuss
11-10-2005, 08:26 PM
RE: the "ripping off" of Antz and or Bug's Life...


you guys know that this is based on a children's book thats older than either of those two other films right?


just checking.

agreenster
11-10-2005, 09:56 PM
Yes, but we werent discussing which STORY came first, just the art direction. At least, that's what I'm discussing.

Which brings up a good point. The illustrations in the book look nothing like ABL or Antz, but the film does.

FloydBishop
11-11-2005, 02:33 AM
Which brings up a good point. The illustrations in the book look nothing like ABL or Antz, but the film does.

The illustrations were pretty nice. Who knows what this is going to look like in the final though? We may all be blown away!

Book illustrations don't often lend themselves well to CG animation. For instance, everyone in animation seems to have a William Joyce fetish these days, but I think his character designs are horrible for animation. Little beady eyes far apart from each other are really tough to use to sell emotion.

Teyon
11-12-2005, 07:20 AM
HAs it occurred to anyone that the teaser was done for the sole purpose of spoofing and not to show anything at all having to do with the film other than the name and the fact ants are involved? It's not unlikely that the ants in the film will look nothing like the ants in the teaser. Granted, making a teaser like that may seem odd but it did a number of things, it reminded folks ants can be funny, it poked fun at movies we love, and it showed that the team behind hte upcoming film could produce something of the quality of competing studios. I'm hoping I'm right on that because otherwise, it will be just too visually similar. Just because not all designs carry over to cg well doesn't mean art teams should scrap their creativity and pilfer other's, so I'm really hoping we haven't seen the actual ants from the film yet and that they more closely resemble those in the book.

On a side note ...not to rehash the whole rap thing but I felt I should mention it. I'm a pretty easy going guy, not much offends me but for like the first two seconds those bugs showed up on screen I thought, "Why'd they have to do that?" but as that shot ended I smiled in spite of myself. I mean, it was funny and to be honest, a lot of rappers today are a little too much like that. A little too in your face in all the wrong ways. This is coming from a modeler who happens to be black....well, light brown really. :) I had to laugh at it though...I saw the trailer with my Dominican co-worker and her husband and kids. Had the characters been latin sterotypes I honestly doubt I would have taken offense the way I did initially and that's what makes me realize I just have to laugh. It's not done to harm, I doubt very much that the animators behind the scene had that in mind.

Darn, I went ahead and wrote more than I had intended about that. Okay, so on with the show....oh, one more thing: Folks complained that Monsters INC (when it was released), was yet another "buddy film", which it was, so even that wasn't completely original. There truly aren't any original ideas left I think, just original ways of expressing the same ideas we know.

P.S. - William Joyce Worked on the first Toy Story, that seemed to do okay in the emotion department. :) I think there are lots of childrens books that would make great films but I'd really rather see a film written from scratch instead of a treatment of a book or comic or game.

agreenster
11-12-2005, 06:37 PM
HAs it occurred to anyone that the teaser was done for the sole purpose of spoofing

Yes. Read the very first post of this thread

FloydBishop
11-12-2005, 07:57 PM
...Granted, making a teaser like that may seem odd but it did a number of things, it reminded folks ants can be funny, it poked fun at movies we love, and it showed that the team behind hte upcoming film could produce something of the quality of competing studios.

I didn't much care for the trailer, because it relied on many things that have been done to death in CG.

If I see one more microphone or clapboard in a CG "behind the scenes" type thing in CG, I think I'm going to scream. Not only do the backgrounds and characters pull from "Bug's Life", but so do the gags? That's too much. They did all this kind of thing during the end credit of ABL. How does this show that this new film is any different or better than that one?

I'm shown the quality that DNA can produce every week when I watch Jimmy Neutron on Nickelodeon. That show is great. I have no doubt that DNA can hold their own in CG, but I'm wondering why they are relying on what seem to be knock offs of other films to help sell this one? It's too bad, really.

The kid at the end was more interesting to me than the bugs were. I'm guessing that the final film will have much more of him in it, so most likely the best stuff is yet to be seen.

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