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mooncry
11-01-2005, 08:52 AM
hi guys, id like to know if the power of x2 4400 is obviously noticeable when you compare it to a 3800 x2? thanks:)

deathman20
11-01-2005, 01:25 PM
Maybe in overclocking potential but truely the X2 3800+ OC's usually well past the X2 4400 speed.

The extra 200Mhz is nice, and the extra cache size will help in games more then anything currently. You might notice it on renders (its only and 9% faster really) maybe a slight change in FPS in games other then that there basically the same.

mooncry
11-01-2005, 01:51 PM
thanks for the info deathman:)

rob rhodes
11-01-2005, 06:25 PM
is the 4400 just as good at overclocking as the 3800? so as a rule can it always be about 200mhz faster than the 3800? Will it clock to the 2.6ghz region with the supplied fan or do you need to invest in a serious cooling system. Does the quality of the motherboard and ram have a major impact on OCing? and if so does that show up in the stability of the system or will it permenantly damage your hardware? finally does overclocking and long render times (so system on full power for large amounts of time) cause problems?

Sorry to highjack your thread mooncry but thought it was along the same lines!
Cheers Rob

lots
11-01-2005, 06:41 PM
Generally the biggest over clock comes from the lowest rated part. This is because CPUs of the same core revision all have about the same potential clock speed. In the case of the X2, this is somewhere in the 2.6-2.8 GHz region. However, not all X2 chips make the cut (are stable at this speed) for the 4800 due to some imperfections in manufacturing, or whatever. Thus they are sent to lower end bins where they are again tested, and sorted. If they still dont make the cut, they're sent to even lower end bins, until they're deemed defective and tossed in the trash.

Every now and then, if the chip maker needs to increase production of a specific model of the CPU, say that AMD needs more 3800 X2s, then they will sometimes repackage CPUs that are capable of 4800 speeds (under normal conditions) as a 3800. In cases like this, the CPU will tend to overclock QUITE nicely.

But to my point, you will generally find that most CPUs of the same core revision will overclock to about the same speed in the end, no matter which speed grade you start out with. Though, it may be possible that higher end parts will be more stable since they are able to run closer to the max speed normally. In the end, to get most bang for buck (in terms of over clocking) getting a low end part is usually the way to go..

deathman20
11-01-2005, 06:59 PM
is the 4400 just as good at overclocking as the 3800? so as a rule can it always be about 200mhz faster than the 3800? Will it clock to the 2.6ghz region with the supplied fan or do you need to invest in a serious cooling system. Does the quality of the motherboard and ram have a major impact on OCing? and if so does that show up in the stability of the system or will it permenantly damage your hardware? finally does overclocking and long render times (so system on full power for large amounts of time) cause problems?

Sorry to highjack your thread mooncry but thought it was along the same lines!
Cheers Rob

Overclockin is a chance game, you might get lucky you might not. In therory since its a better batch it should hit higher speeds but its not a guarrente. I've seen some X2 3800+'s at or near 3Ghz, I've seen some X2 4400's bearly break 2.7Ghz. Its all a toss up.

As for cooling most likely if you are going to OC at all investing in a better heatsink/fan is a GOOD investment. If not going to water if you want to go that route. My X2 3800+ runs at 39C full load with my cooler, nice and cool and I believe the temps since the heatsink is relativley cool to the touch still.

Yes motherboard/ram to have a huge impact on OCing, along with the Powersuppy too. Having a good motherboard supply clean voltage to the CPU is critical, let alone having options to tweak the system as much as possible to get the best preformance out of it. The powersupply needs to be strong, only recommened good quality powersupplys, they will run you right around $100 at least. Please do not opt for a cheap one, it can cripple your system, and possibley wreak it if its truely a poorly designed one. Ram well depending on the mobo and the ram maker it can drastically affect stability/oc. Basically the faster the modules go the better for the overclock because it increases the bandwidth of the ram which increases preformance when programs utilitze it.

Overclocking per say doesn't damamge hardware. Its all heat, voltage regulated mainly, if it runs to warm or you put to much voltage into it, that will damage the hardware long before an overclocking would become an issue.

As for running OC'ed hardware with long render times, the answer is no. As long as its stable, and its within heat limits it won't affect the system stability or ability to render.

Think that sums most of that up.

rob rhodes
11-01-2005, 11:11 PM
cheers for your informative replies guys - plenty of food for thought! As you might have guessed, im looking to build a new system for arch viz so modeling and rendering - (using archicad, C4D, and Maxwell). So maxwell really needs a high performance machine to make rendertimes useful. Would I be better then going for the cheaper 3800 and spending more money on higher quality accessories (ram, mobo, cooler and PSU) and try and overclock it to say 2.6ghz or go for the 4400 and make the rest of the system up on a budget and try and clock that at 2.6ghz. - so what would be more stable? I suppose you run the risk of getting a bottom of the barrel one that will hardly overclock at all!

Will the higher cache capacity of the 4400 help me out in any way - I wont be using this machine for games (well I might Try it!!)

Thanks again, Rob

[EDIT] actually going from 2ghz to 2.6 seems a bit greedy! I would settle for 2.4/5 - thats still the same speed as the 4800! im sure that will be plenty fast enough for the moment!!

Nando3D
11-02-2005, 09:18 AM
hi I Just Got a 4400, OC to 2.4 without a problems, very fast rendering with maya and mental ray, The extra cache in the 4400 is better ... I could try to OC to 2.6 but i am happy with 2.4..

chao

rob rhodes
11-02-2005, 02:23 PM
nice one Nando. Yeah I think 2.4 would be sweet - its as fast as the 4800 which is the top x2 processor so im sure that will be fast enough! I would feel happier getting a 4400 and just slightly overclocking that rather than rincing a 3800. Im thinking of getting one of those vapochill micro coolers which i hope should cool it enough. Do you use a specialist cooling system or just the one that came with the CPU? What sort of temp are you running at at full load?

Cheers, Rob

Nando3D
11-02-2005, 02:38 PM
HI

I got the CoolerMaster Hyper 48 (Socket 939) and Cooler Master Premium - Shin Etsu Thermal Grease, Tem 32C Normal & Load 42C, I also have 2 120 fans Front and Back and 80 on The side, incase it get too hot. look here

Nando


PS this picture was with my old CPU,

deathman20
11-02-2005, 03:24 PM
My X2 3800+ is rock solid at 2.5Ghz :) with 27Idle and 39Load temps, can't beat taht for air cooling ;) XP-120 with thermaltake fan, with 2x 120mm thermaltake fans suckin air in/out.

2.4 should be obtainable without a doubt on a X2 4400+, probely with very little if any voltage increase, and heck probley run still quiet nicely on even the stock cooler.

SimonPickard
11-02-2005, 11:31 PM
Hi guys.

How are you getting these speeds on the x2's?
I've got a 4400 and can't get it stable at 2.4.

It's not a head issue. I just don't think I'm changing the right settings.
Do you guys just rise the FPS setting and then add a little extra voltage or is it more than that?

I've got a DFI lanparty mother board.
I'd be very intrested in any advice.

Regards,
Si.

deathman20
11-03-2005, 12:09 AM
Hi guys.

How are you getting these speeds on the x2's?
I've got a 4400 and can't get it stable at 2.4.

It's not a head issue. I just don't think I'm changing the right settings.
Do you guys just rise the FPS setting and then add a little extra voltage or is it more than that?

I've got a DFI lanparty mother board.
I'd be very intrested in any advice.

Regards,
Si.

Probley your ram is holding you back, your probley overclocking the ram to much past its spec, so you might need to use dividers, increase ram voltage, and probley lower the HTT timing. Check out www.dfi-street.com for lots of help with that ;) They can help ya alot more then me since I'm new to these boards and AMD.

SimonPickard
11-03-2005, 01:30 AM
Yeah I looked into dividers but couldn't figure it out. Does anyone have a good webpage for this? I've tried doing searches but the stuff I've found is way over my head.

Regards,
Si.

RPG2006
11-03-2005, 08:56 AM
A thread on which Deathman kindly helped me with overclocking my 4200+

http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=271997

A couple of threads explaining dividers, and the process of overclocking.

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=107925

http://forums.extremeoverclocking.com/showthread.php?t=149717

Personally I've had most joy using an FSB multiplier of 11, say 11 x 230(2530Mhz), but before you do that you will need to loosen up your memory timings i.e. increase the timings, and use a divider ie. reduce the mhz of the memory say to 166 mhz. 200:166(400:333).

As mentioned dividers are explained in the above threads. Importantly you will need to reduce your HT multiplier as well. I believe it defaults at 5 x 200 which is 1ghz. It always needs to be below this figure, unless you've done a bit of modding that is. So if you've upped the fsb to 230, then Ht could be 4 i.e. 4x230 = 920. 5 x 230 = 1120, which is apparently very bad.

I'm still a newbie to this, and would say it's very important to read up first, before just messing around with the bios. I had my 4200+ running at 2630 mhz today, but lightwave crashed on renders so I've reduced it to 2530. Maybe upping my cpu voltage would help me obtain higher speeds, but it's hot here(No AC) and I think I need a better cooling system first.

All good fun though.

RPG

mooncry
11-03-2005, 09:13 AM
thanks for all the info guys, it really helps a lot, i think i might go with x2 4400 since im not an overclocker, the extra 200 mhz of 4400 compared to 3800 is important to me:) anyway does the processor comes with a heatsink and fan? if the heat sink and fan comes with the processor, should i replace it with a good cooling device? thanks again!

SatoriGFX
11-03-2005, 12:40 PM
thanks for all the info guys, it really helps a lot, i think i might go with x2 4400 since im not an overclocker, the extra 200 mhz of 4400 compared to 3800 is important to me:) anyway does the processor comes with a heatsink and fan? if the heat sink and fan comes with the processor, should i replace it with a good cooling device? thanks again!

It should come with a, quite effectve, stock fan/heatsink setup. My 4200's temp is usually 41 celsius in normal use and peaks at 49 celsius when I am rendering. I could probably improve this if I opened up the case and did a little cable cleanup as well (had the machine built for me and have been having too much fun to bother cleaning up the cabling).

deathman20
11-03-2005, 12:44 PM
thanks for all the info guys, it really helps a lot, i think i might go with x2 4400 since im not an overclocker, the extra 200 mhz of 4400 compared to 3800 is important to me:) anyway does the processor comes with a heatsink and fan? if the heat sink and fan comes with the processor, should i replace it with a good cooling device? thanks again!

Stock fan will come with it unless its an OEM. Might as well get the retail one, since it comes with a heatsink at least and usually its a few bucks more and sometimes even cheaper then just the standalone chip.

If you want to try improving tempatures also, you can remove the goop on the bottom of the stock heatsink and put some AS5 on the bottom of it instead. That would help results a little more tempature wise too. But since your not OCing stock everything will be just fine in your case without a doubt.

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