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CarlCampbell
10-30-2005, 05:33 PM
Just opened the email about the release of 'Exotique' from Ballistic and I happened to fixate on two words in particular: Computer Generated. Ever since I've been involved in Computer Graphics I've been seeing this term on almost a daily basis and I don't know why it just seemed to bug me all of a sudden, it felt almost literal; that Computers had actually generated these characters themselves. Its not the computer that generates them, it almost sounds like an automatic process! We make/generate/create works of art through the use of computers.

I've heard of lots of digital artists-especially digital painters- getting their work bashed because when the general public see the word 'computer' they go all 'Ah... computer, eh?' and suddenly the work loses almost half of its value. I know the term must of been carefully selected to be as short as possible while simplifying what it is in fact that we do but... I don't know, it just stood out to me all of a sudden.

What do you guys think?

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 05:38 PM
You are right. A lot of people think that 3d animation is created by machines... and I reckon that the term 'computer generated' which gets banded around is a primary reason for that misconception. I never use the term. Avoid it like the plague because it really can give people the wrong idea. It's actually got to the point where I cringe whenever I find it, not least because I experienced a lot of negative attitude towards 3d from tutors and fellow pupils who assumed there was a machine churning out toy story. :rolleyes: that was 5 years ago mind you, it's probably got a bit better these days.

Boone
10-30-2005, 05:53 PM
What people fail to realise is that CG requires a unique partership: Human and Computer working together. :wise:

If you take the time to understand and respect the computer, it will help you get the work done. :cool:

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 05:56 PM
If you take the time to understand and respect the computer, it will help you get the work done. :cool:

I don't think thats what anyone is complaining about :D The problem is people equating the final image entirely to a computer and not to the artist.

I mean, the pencil and the artist needs to work together well too.... If the pencil keeps breaking then it slows you down. :arteest:

Boone
10-30-2005, 05:59 PM
Re: JMcWilliams.

Thats right. And we must therefore educate them to this point...with FORCE! :twisted:

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 06:02 PM
Indeed! Shall we call the A-team? :thumbsup:

Boone
10-30-2005, 06:09 PM
Re: JMcWilliams.

No. Insted...GET ME "KRAMER"! :D

Hazdaz
10-30-2005, 07:00 PM
So then what do you guys use as a term?

Cuz see I get annoyed by the other side of the business.... Everyone seems to call this (whatever "this" is) as simply 3D (or sometimes a little more specifically as '3D modelling'). But that is an extremely vague and misleading term really. Coming from the CAD (computer-aided design) world, 3D was being used there WAY before it ever got shifted into the creative side with programs like 3D Studio and such.

3D Digital Content Creation (DCC) is my favorite term but that is a mouth-full and few people have any idea what DCC stands for.

So if not "Computer Generated" what term to use??

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 07:21 PM
As you say, there are lots of areas of 3d digital art so I'm not sure you will be happy with any type of common name or generalisation.

'3d' works for me in general. Animation is animation. Modelling is modelling. Never heard of DCC though. ;)

Boone
10-30-2005, 07:34 PM
I suppose thats the beauty of it - you don't appreciate something until you try it yourself.

From a loose understanding, 2D animation could be seen as simple as its just a few drawing strung together. But then again, those who do 2D animation know its more just that.

I remember the horror I experianced when having my first attempt at Stop-Motion...easy, my ass! :scream:

Papa Lazarou
10-30-2005, 08:43 PM
I have used the term Computer Generated, because calling it '3d animation' bothered me. '3d animation' used to be a term used to describe stop-motion. The term '2d animation' can bother me also, since hand drawn animation can display 3-dimensional qualities. The term 'computer generated animation' could technically apply to any animation created on a computer(including 2d flash work), so it's not an ideal term.

Another term, sometimes used for stop-motion was 'dimensional animation'. A possible alternative to CG, could be ' dimensional digital animation', or '3d digital animation' I dunno, still sounds a bit like the computer's doing all the work. I think maybe that's just a mindset. When you heard the term 'cel animation' you didn't condescendingly think 'oh it's all just done on cels'.

I reckon 'CG' isn't going away though, it's fairly established. I mean here we are on 'CGTalk' for chrissakes.

Simon
10-30-2005, 09:15 PM
I agree.

When choosing unis I had hell, as everyone were using names like "creative visual and 3d arts". "digital mulitmedia and film making". Multimedia animation etc etc.

half those words could mean anything!

Which raises questions about whether they really know what the hell they are teaching considering they cant even pin down a name for it.

JWRodegher
10-30-2005, 09:33 PM
Well, it could be "Computer Assisted Art" for that matter. Even if it may sound like the computer actually helps us! lol

Yeah well, many many times Iīve heard that negative "ah, they made that with a computer..." and I canīt get to actually explain that more often than not, it would be easier to make a shot than to reproduce it in 3d...sometimes it was just enough with showing a friend the UI of maya. Itīs so funny to see their expressions...

Ronski
10-30-2005, 10:02 PM
I do find it a little annoying, I mean you don't hear phrases like pencil generated or paint generated images? Maybe the use of CGI as a catch all is the best bet & what it actually stands for will be lost in the depths of time.

I think that's one of the main problems is there are so many definitions as to what we do.

Cheers,
Kieron

Arrghman
10-30-2005, 10:02 PM
I've always thought that the term "computer generated" to be more about how the final image is created with a rendering process. People create all the models and textures and animation and lighting and materials manually, of course, but the final pixels themselves are produced by the rendering process, which once you hit the render button, is pretty much automatic.

But if you follow that, then I guess you'd have to call anything done with a pencil "pencil generated art," and that sounds a little silly.

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 10:37 PM
I reckon 'CG' isn't going away though, it's fairly established. I mean here we are on 'CGTalk' for chrissakes.

I always thought the CG in cgtalk was 'Computer Graphics' ?
Lets face it, that's got to be better than 'Computer Generated'

sphere
10-30-2005, 10:48 PM
I always thought the CG in cgtalk was 'Computer Graphics' ?
Lets face it, that's got to be better than 'Computer Generated'

It is...

isnt it? :curious:

CGI is 'Computer Generated Imagery' though...

leigh
10-30-2005, 10:55 PM
Why does anyone actually care about this?

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 11:03 PM
We all have pet peeves ;) Some have 'computer generated', others have Sharon Osborne. :thumbsup:

BiowaX
10-30-2005, 11:10 PM
I agree with Leigh on this one. Who cares really ??

I myself use the abbrevation BGI, BiowaX Generated Imagery. My avatar for instance is pure BGI :)

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 11:15 PM
I guess it's just one of the mysteries in life... who cares about eastenders? rockstar games banning? Autodesk buying maya etc. Such is the spice of life. Who cares about who cares about this topic? etc etc. The list is endless. :argh:

BiowaX
10-30-2005, 11:25 PM
It was meant to be a a tad sarcastic. I mean, if i was to be in a field were CGI was to the name of the umbrella under which my profession lied, i would be interested in knowing what it stood for.

But i dont care really, and since that field aint paying my rent, im still doing my BGI! :)

JMcWilliams
10-30-2005, 11:34 PM
yeh, I was just messing ;) :deal:

vlad74
10-31-2005, 12:35 AM
I usually call an art created with computer Digital art and the person who created it Digital artist. I've never used the term "computer generated" and I will probably never use it.

Hazdaz
10-31-2005, 01:00 AM
Why does anyone actually care about this?
Why?
Well if some layman asks you what you do for a living, it would be nice to be able to tell him in a 2 or 3 word phrase and have him actually understand you. The general public is sooo technologically naive that you can't assume they have a clue what so-and-so means.

CarlCampbell
10-31-2005, 01:14 AM
Why does anyone actually care about this?

Not to say I actually CARE about it, its just a general... wondering-.... ment :shrug:
Its just something that caught my attention, just being a bit naive :)

Boone
10-31-2005, 09:19 AM
Re: Leigh.

Actually, its something that deserves a little thought.

Whenever one goes looking for a course in "CGI", the course names, topics are quite often confused - simply because they cannot get their labels right!

So it does pose a slight problem to some... :wip:

DrFx
10-31-2005, 01:05 PM
Btw, anyone here presenting themselves as a "CG Artist"? A computer-generated artist is bit of a silly thought... I myself don't know how to properly name the stuff that I do so people understand me, but without being technically incorrect.

Hazdaz
10-31-2005, 01:10 PM
SO no one else uses the term "Digital Content Creation" (DCC) ??

In my mind it really does describe the job very well, cuz unlike "Computer Generted" it doesn't sound like the PC is making the stuff for you. And with the term "digital," most people will know that the job uses a computer, not made by the computer. It is just too long of a name, I think.

CarlCampbell
10-31-2005, 01:21 PM
Hazdaz: That would depend on the definition you assign to the word 'content'. This has a LOT to do with what many people have mentioned in this thread: academic course names and/or job titles.

Here in Spain for instance, when you talk about the word 'content' you're usually referring to Web Pages, Interactive Presentations, CD-ROMS, etc... That is because content (at least over here) has to do with Information Technology mostly.
I'm sure many people would disagree that a work of art on canvas (wether digital or not) a short film or a 3D rendering would be considered 'content'.

Dennik
10-31-2005, 01:29 PM
For anyone who cares to hear me more than 2 minutes without yawning i let them know that the computer is just a stupid inbetweener and i'm basically in control of creating the whole thing. Of course after that i realise that they didn't catch half of what i said, because they suddenly change the conversation to another topic. Then one day eventually they introduce me to someone else, saying, "Dennis here is a Computer guy". And then i scream inside me but nobody can hear.
So just give up dudes. Its never going to change.

Hazdaz
10-31-2005, 01:31 PM
Hazdaz: That would depend on the definition you assign to the word 'content'. This has a LOT to do with what many people have mentioned in this thread: academic course names and/or job titles.

Here in Spain for instance, when you talk about the word 'content' you're usually referring to Web Pages, Interactive Presentations, CD-ROMS, etc... That is because content (at least over here) has to do with Information Technology mostly.
I'm sure many people would disagree that a work of art on canvas (wether digital or not) a short film or a 3D rendering would be considered 'content'.

Good point. I personally would consider "content" to mean the "stuff" that goes INTO all the items you mentioned - including the 3D models used in films and commercials and games, as well as 3D content in web pages and interactive presentions and such.

Like if you are making a film, I guess I would consider you more the director/producer... but if you are makign the 3D models of the main character, then to me, that is more of creating content... thus the term digital content creation.

I know it doesn't roll off the tongue, but that is the best term I have ever heard used.

paintbox
10-31-2005, 01:37 PM
Why not just call yourself artist or illustrator when someone asks ? Or that you make art / illustrations / game art / ...fill in your jobname...

And if someone ask how do you do it ? Well then mention that the computer is your tool.

Maybe CGTalk could just get rid of the CG and just call it "Talk" :D

Greasley
10-31-2005, 01:38 PM
For anyone who cares to hear me more than 2 minutes without yawning i let them know that the computer is just a stupid inbetweener and i'm basically in control of creating the whole thing. Of course after that i realise that they didn't catch half of what i said, because they suddenly change the conversation to another topic. Then one day eventually they introduce me to someone else, saying, "Dennis here is a Computer guy". And then i scream inside me but nobody can hear.
So just give up dudes. Its never going to change.

quoted for agreement.

JMcWilliams
10-31-2005, 02:35 PM
For anyone who cares to hear me more than 2 minutes without yawning i let them know that the computer is just a stupid inbetweener and i'm basically in control of creating the whole thing. Of course after that i realise that they didn't catch half of what i said, because they suddenly change the conversation to another topic. Then one day eventually they introduce me to someone else, saying, "Dennis here is a Computer guy". And then i scream inside me but nobody can hear.
So just give up dudes. Its never going to change.

Nah, I find it's quite possible to give people the correct assumption. I don't get called a 'computer guy'.

Papa Lazarou
10-31-2005, 02:57 PM
I agree with whoever said just call yourself an artist, or a sculptor or an animator. But as it is, even if I just tell people I do animation, they still go "oh that's all done on computers now isn't it".

To be fair though, if someone else tells me they're an actuary, or an industrial researcher, I only have the vaguest idea of what their job entails. I'm usually not all that interested either. Maybe it's better to just come up with an impressive-sounding name and accept that other people aren't going to know what you really do.

Boone
10-31-2005, 03:16 PM
To cut out the hassle etc, just tell people that we are secret agents and that we would have to kill them if we talked about our jobs. :twisted:

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