Guns over Europe

[Geespot]

I like it very much :thumbsup:

How did you do the clouds?

[Newstream]

Yes, the clouds are very convincing!

Well done!
/ Alex

[smurfted]

Brilliant i've been having trouble with them for ages..

I tried pyroclusters, particles.. all sorts..

As i don't have c4d 9.5 (which apparently has great clouds and atmosphere pre-sets) i just made them from a serise of domes with layers of semi transparent maps on them, still not quite happy with them though..

[tcastudios]

I like the sky. I don't know much about aeroplanes but I think the flying might be improved somewhat.
Also I suggest not to lock the camera "dead on" a moving object.
Use a proxyNull that is moving around a little (as a child of the plane).

For the flying animation I have a xpresso setup that might be of help.
Check out SteadyBANKER (http://homepage.mac.com/tcastudios/TCA%20SteadyCAM.html) Item009.

Cheers
Lennart

[Jack Hammer]

Hi, i'm having problems with my web connection. Is there any chance of posting a couple of still shots of the clouds?

[mogh]

hm nice ani

but why a stucka in an air fight. thought the stucka was more of a hit and run 1bomb bomber. but my modelglueing ages are way long ago.
perhaps mix some more planes a few 109 and focke wolfs would make the shoot much more interesting.

And why atacking a "Aunt Ju" its a German Airplane ? Just like the Stucka.

I'm no expert but you should consider looking this stuff up.

the sky is awesomme by the way

[Glyptic]

I agree.
I was making those models 40 yrs ago and it looked a bit funny to see a Stucka trying fly in a dog fight. It was a dive bomber.
Other than that, it was fun to watch, and I am nowhere near being able to model such things.
And given you don't have R9.5/AR 2.5 clouds, the clouds are very well done.
Please post more.
regards,
glyptic

[smurfted]

Okay like i said this is a test. None of this footage will be used in my story..

I'm just checking that i can do everything i need to, the reason why there are only german aircraft will become apparent later..

Here is the latest version

Second Test (http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2b.mov)

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/GoE.jpg

[gunslingerblack]

...what's with the matrix effects on the bullets? the clouds are ok, moving alittle too fast in my opinion, it really makes the plane look like it's not flying, the camera angles are a bit off, they dont quite convey the grand sense you should go for. i suggest watchig some old ww2 footage on the history channel. im sure u can get some from historychannel.com or somewhere on the web.

btw these are two sets of clouds i did after quickly fooling aroudn with the maya fluid fx presets for clouds

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1941/flyingclouds2gh.jpg

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8808/happyclouds4kx.jpg

[smurfted]

Now the goodies are fighting the bad guys, a lancaster bomber..

And here is the latest version

Third Test (http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2c.mov)

What do you think?

[Canadianboy]

lookin good so far.. reminds me of Battlefield 1942 that game

[Canadianboy]

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/1941/flyingclouds2gh.jpg

http://img383.imageshack.us/img383/8808/happyclouds4kx.jpg

wow those are great.. to bad there not c4d lol

[gunslingerblack]

yeah i love maya

[Srek]

While over all nice, it lacks some realism. What stood out most to me was the lack of movement of flaps and rudder of the planes, even when manouvering fast and extreme.
Cheers
Björn

[smurfted]

Watch it again and you'll see the rudder moving..

Though point taken and i'll make it move obvious, and add aileron movement..

I was thinking of linking the control surfaces to an expresso routine, to automate them when the aircraft bank etc.. Though my knowledge of expresso is minimal at the moment..

[smurfted]

So here we go..

Rudder and ailerons now work, pyrocluster added, no bullets coming through the cockpit and it even has stereo sound..

Fourth Test (http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2d.mov)

[smurfted]

Coming back to this project for a moment, i wasn't totally happy the atmosphere, the 2d clouds and so..
So this is my new enviroment, still very much work in progress, with this one you can even see the ground..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/flyingball.mov

The anoying horizon line is a strange artifact of the fog option in c4d?!
Better?

[smurfted]

All constructive critisisms are more than welcome..

Here is my next "new world" test, with better fogging, a fixed horizon, nicer clouds, 3d google earth ground and camera banking (which could be better)..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/flyingball2.mov

Does anyone know where i can get good hi res pictures of the ground from high altitude?

[BUZZFX]

Mike,

That last test is AMAZING!! Was this done in C4D?

Do you know of a good tutorial for learning animation in C4D. The manual is difficult at best.

I look forward to seeing more mike

[JoelOtron]

#4 is looking really nice. Good motion.

The things that bug me a bit could easily be fixed. One is the smoke--looks too much like individual particles puffs rather than a volumetric trail of smoke.


The advent calender at c4dTreff has a great smoke setup in which the particle motion is pretty accurate. (Thanks c4d-treff!)

http://c4dtreff.de/

Click on the adventskalender link on that page and go to the December 6th door. Might help.
Of course you need TP--and dont know if you have that.

The other thing that would help is that the tracers/shells need motion blur and some light wrap---like the plane has. They are too sharp and dont look like they are part of the scene.

[ChrisCousins]

So here we go..
Rudder and ailerons now work, pyrocluster added, no bullets coming through the cockpit and it even has stereo sound..

Hi smurfted - looking good - and sounding good too! One thing stood out for me - it looks like the smoke from the first plane is being 'shot' out behind the plane - ie the particles are moving away from the plane. What should be happening is that the particles are emitted travelling at the same speed and direction as the plane, and then are quickly slowed by air resistance. Once the plane has moved on the smoke trails should be stationery (or slowly dissipating).

Nice work though!

C

[smurfted]

There are a wide range of great video tutorials at www.c4dcafe.com..

Good stuff, i'll be comming back to that shortly..

In the mean time i have added one of my planes and worked on the banking..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/flyingball3.mov

Next i'm going to look at brightening up the sky, moving the camera less and having the control surfaces move with the a/craft..

Anyone with ideas on hi res satalite pix???

[tcastudios]

It is somewhat unclear "who" the camera represents in the scene. Is it someone chasing the plane? Is it a "documentary" camera, just being there to show that particular plane?
In any case, since you are working on the banking, the banking of the plane might be good but the effect is taken away since the camera is banking more or less in sync. Make the plane bank first and then make the camera follow up with -less- banking. This way the banking force of the plane will be stronger/more visible.
Also, the camera have to have more "rubber string" movement in relationn to the plane.
The plane must be "let away" (especially when diving)and the camera then can catch up from time to time.
This will take away the "plane dangling in a string" feeling, bringing force, speed and action into the scene.
Add exhaust from the plane to add/show the speed.


Cheers
Lennart

[smurfted]

tcastudios! the man himself, your work with expresso is amamzing.. I used to work with maya and couldn't belive c4d didn't have an easy option to make objects automatically bank around splines (with maya you just check a box).

But your version is better than maya's. With multitudes of controls! People like yourself bring c4d , a brilliant but sometimes tarnished product, back to at least the forefront of 3d animation.

So here we go, a more realistic sky (though less forboding), better ground texture, working rudder, tailplane and ailerons..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/flyingball4.mov

Next i'm going to set about testing better camera angles..

[smurfted]

So here we have a new camera system and less sensitive control surfaces..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/flyingball5.mov

Now for targets..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/goe2.jpg

[smurfted]

As for the rest, now i've added the tracer fire from the other version, changed the way the camera moves, dulled out the colours slightly and added bombers and fighter support..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/flyingball6.mov

[Per-Anders]

just chekced this out, it's definitely coming along nicely. one thing is it would help to have some more dynmiac camera cuts for the action, otherwise it tends to look a bit like a game. other than that, great work.

[smurfted]

Okay so i'm still working on the look of my world, not quite taktics or flight paths (though i keep having a bash)..

So here is a quicktime VR of one of my bombers (a 2meg and 5meg version)..
http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/lancasterhi.mov
http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/lancasterlo.mov

I know the ground is too pixelated, that will be sorted by the next version, and the volumetric clouds aren't present (for the rendertime)..

Though i'm still not completly happy, does it look right or not or what???

Any tips for the aircrafts materials???

[smurfted]

More of the good guys, a hurricane..

So here we go again, now i've moved the floor in the world, added specular maps to the majority of my a/craft and removed the selfilumination of the aircraft in favour of global ilumination (GI), or radiosity as it used to be called..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/hurricane2.mov

Better?

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/goe3.jpg

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/goe4.jpg

[smurfted]

I've changed my plans now and gone in a different direction, going back to composite backdrops..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/comptest.mov

tell me what you think..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/goe5.jpg

[FredSpeaks]

Looking really nice. Would love to see it fly behind the clouds, if you can work it out.

[marcorabellini]

This is improving with each pass. I love the camera on the single plane in your later tests (flying ball shots).

I do have some comments for the Stuka movie.

There's some continuity issues that I think if addressed would improve the "read".

In the first shot, the bomber is travelling screen-right to screen-left. Then the next shot, we're on the other side and the bomber is traveling screen-left to screen-right. This is usually a no-no called "crossing the line". Basically you're setting up the audience to be oriented in one direction and don't want to have the camera plane rotate past -90 degrees to 90 degrees from straight ahead. Crossing the line causes disorientation with the audience and breaks the "suspension of disbelief".

Now in your other shots (the single plane over the landscape) you cross the line but it's one continuous camera shot so it doesn't disorient the audience as to where they are in space.

Secondly, the second shot in the Stuka/bomber sequence shows us underneath the Stuka and it's shooting at the bomber. I don't know much about arial combat, but I would think that shooting at 90 degrees to a target moving a couple hundred miles an hour would be a low-hit-rate tactic. Also, shooting directly into the sun might also be considered not the best pilot. I would guess that it would be better to be coming out of the sun toward your target. This would cause the gunners in the bomber to not be able to see you, because you are lost in the glare of the sun, and would allow you to see the bomber very clearly.

Then, you have another little plane escorting the Stuka. At the end of the Stuka shooting shot, the Stuka is pointing a few hundred yards behind the bomber. Then the next shot is from a cockpit pointed in front of the bomber. So I'm guessing that we're now in the little escort plane shooting at the bomber. I'm also guessing that wasn't your intent and we're supposed to be in the Stuka cockpit.

Please take these as suggestions as I know it's a lot of work to make big changes like this.

Best,
m

[smurfted]

So here i have changed the flight a little, added another plane (as i think when there is more going on in the scene you won't focus on the backdrop so much), and the big one (though i've left it very subtle) i've added volumetric clouds i the foreground..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/comptest2.mov

And here is a different type of composite test, a flyby of the camera..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/comptest3.mov

I know the plane is slow in test3 its more if the world feels right..

[FredSpeaks]

Comptest2 looks really good. I like the vapor of the foreground clouds. comptest3 looks too bright. I'd say adjust the gamma on it.

[gunslingerblack]

comptest one and 2 more random camera shake..

i dont get the feeling i am flying in either of those clips

[JIII]

peggy: Because blowing stuff up is gawd awful fun :-)!

Nice BG man that's starting to look very realistic, good work :-). Noww just make the dude fly behind the clouds :-) hehe.

-John

[JIII]

I just watched the last two videos, man those are nice. I would kill for a lil scene file showin' how you set up that comp. I don't care so much about the planes as just seeing how it's all set up and what ya used for BG etc. :-).

Really good work,

-John

[smurfted]

Now i have to wonder what petticoat gal was saying??

[smurfted]

Here i have added a pilot and cleaned up my techniques a bit.. Getting ready to make the full animation..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/comptest3p.mov

The last test i still wish to persue is that of the smoke and debris from attacked aircraft.. So thats what i'm looking at now..

[smurfted]

So here is my latest aircraft, a he111, i haven't finished modeling/texturing him yet, but i thought i'd see how he looked in action..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/comptest4.mov

I never planned on letting him get close to the camera (so i could model him quickly), but i think i'll be able to get away with quite a lot now..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/he111.jpg

[!Chucky!]

Very Well done..WOW! I am liking it..But with the Test flights - how come at the end, the plane is shooting when the bomber is no where in sights nor is it near the rounds being fired...Just was wondering that...Other than that everything else is just absoultly amazing...Very good job..Keep at it.

[smurfted]

I've been having trouble with making good looking smoke, this is a pyrocluster version with videopost rendering..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/smoketest.mov

Any comments on the smoke?

[JIII]

made some comments in the previous thread.

[Wintermute]

I can only spot one flaw in your incredible work.

The British restricted their bombing to night operations (thus the black paint on the Lancaster) It was the American 8th air force that continued daylight bombing with thier B-17s :D

[smurfted]

Back upto epidode2ish render times, this one being an 8 hour render, what with the GI, the pyrocluster smoke and the volumetric clouds..

This is a slightly more cinematic version, trying out a couple more planes, a bit of music etc

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/smoketest2.mov

Still looking at the smoke and debris, how's it comming?

[smurfted]

Sorry i've been away for a while, i did a few pitches for freelance work, one of which was in the same vein as my Guns Over Europe animation..

It's the VSS Enterprise, and as of 2008 anyone with a spare 200K can go to space, breifly.. As it's of a similair subject matter i thought i'd show you what i'd been upto...

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/vss4.mov

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ss1.JPG

I'll be getting back into this animation very soon..

[FredSpeaks]

Looks really nice!

:cool:

[AkaKico]

Wow, that's pretty damn nifty. I like the way you are handling the clouds. Didn't think it would work too well, but you proved it can. I was just reading up a bunch of stuff about SpaceShip 1 the other day. And the proposed commercial space travel. Awesome times!

[smurfted]

Okay so i've got the looks comming together, i've got a bunch of a/craft ready to fight..

I've been looking mainly to a battle early in the war, around 1939-40..

So far i have the hurricane, spitfire, he-111, me-109, a focke wulf 109 (entered the war 1941), a semi complete stuka and a handfull of other a/craft..

I've done tests on rendering technique, smoke, small debris explosions, flight surfaces on a/craft, automated gunners that independently target passing enemy a/craft, tracer fire, tracer fire w smoke, a gang of about 15 pilots that are good enough for medium to close shots, a parachuting guy, an way of having a/craft break-up after exessive damage, nearly complete t/maps & materials for all my aircraft and variours other things i can't even think of at the moment..

So what now, i've just finished a couple of jobs and now my momentum is a little off, but still there..

So what should i do with this stuff, ideas or input would govern where this goes, so what do you think i should do?

[smurfted]

Okay so i'm back in 1939, at first glance you'd say i haven't changed this animation, but i have, several hours of tweaks and refinements infact..

http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/he111.mov

First off the smoke is faster and improved, the debris is now a little faster and comes from where ever bullets hit, there is an explosion as the engine gives up, the prop stops after the engine blows out, i've added a hurricane into the fight and i've started to add gunners to the bombers..

Any more ideas?

[Agamemnon22]

I know you've put a lot of effort into these anims, and they look great, but I have a comment regarding the last one there, the He-111 getting shot up. Personally, I'd make the fighter come up on the Heinkel, firing from some distance and continuing as he gets closer and closer and finally either breaks off or overshoots. First, because I think it would look cooler and more dynamic, and secondly because the way he's doing it now, hanging out behind the bomber, is a quick way to get yourself killed.

BTW, If you like this stuff, pick up IL-2 and the expansions. Great sim, IMO.

[smurfted]

After having been busy with my london blitz sequence, i'm back on the daytime shots and getting ready for an animatic version of my animation..

A little unhappy with my a/c materials i've spent a little time messing with settings

Old:
http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/new-mat-test.jpg

New:
http://www.doghouseanimations.com/ww2/new-mat-test2.jpg

What do you think?

[Joseppi]

Mike,

great work, thanks for posting the progress. For the new plane however, I think what's missing is the panel diffusion mapping... The planes were/are constructed of reivited panels, and not a single surface. Right now the plane is all shiny as a single surface, but if you had a greyscale diffussion map of different grey rectangles, it would break up the surface of the plane. Especially as the planes rolled or turned, the different panels would catch the light differently...

Joe

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