PDA

View Full Version : Two small things to speed me up....


DMack
10-23-2005, 04:08 PM
I've been doing a fair amount of character work recently in messiah and firstly, before I ask for any changes, I'd like to say that overall messiah:Animate is simply an AWSOME tool to use for CA - and a real joy to use. The speed, flexibility and customization (via armatures and sliders etc) are excellent.

Two areas that would seriously help to speed me up and still further increase the joy of use are...

1. I find the navigation (perspective view) around the scene to be slow and clumsy in feel compared to LW. It's not the grid size and I am NOT refering to the open GL speed (which is good IMO). I can't put my finger on it right now but I find that in LW I can navigate around my scenes FAR FAR FAR easier and faster. It would be soooooo nice to be able to navigate around as fast as LW. This navigation extends to object manipulation - In LW, if I look down from the Top view, I can, mouse anywhere on screen, move the item/camera etc in the two logical planes (XZ), same with side/front - this is MUCH nicer than in messiah currently. Looking through the camer in LW, I can manipulate it soooo easily - In messiah I have to click on the edit sphere - feels sooo much more restrictive. So I guess I'm saying better navigation wuld be a REAL bonus.

2. I find the keyframing, especially of multiple objects/channels, including the manipulation via the dopesheet (see the thread on inactive keys) to be overly complex and again, I actually prefer LW's (though less flexible) by a long way. An example - the selected KF can be really annoying - you grab a bunch of keys you want to manipulate, forget that you actually have a 'selected' KF and edit that in error. I'd expect, when I grab a bunch of keys that it would override the initial selection.....

These two areas represent a large part of my ability to work fast. To me it feels like Ihave these awsome tools and awsome rigging ability....to be slightly let down by the gritty part of day to day animation - keyframing and scene navigation.

PS I still find the yellow triangle to be WAY too small, especially with the newer high resolution screens. I mean, I am grabbing that very small icon HUNDREDS of times a day - again LW's is better here - bigger and therefore easier to 'grab'. Don't get me wrong here - CA is for me WAY better in PMG:Animate than LW.....but LW does do some things really well, and I'd love to have thise areas transfered!

Layer01
10-23-2005, 04:49 PM
1. I find the navigation (perspective view) around the scene to be slow and clumsy in feel compared to LW. It's not the grid size and I am NOT refering to the open GL speed (which is good IMO). I can't put my finger on it right now but I find that in LW I can navigate around my scenes FAR FAR FAR easier and faster

i know what you mean, its the viewport navigation speed you're reffering too. what this means is that in application X it takes a small movement to rotate the view 180 degrees. Where as in Messiah the same degree of rotation in the same scene would take three times the mouse movement. in fact the same goes for messiah's zoom and pan.
this is a big problem and opne that needs adressing asap, as its something you have to deal with all the time.


PS I still find the yellow triangle to be WAY too small, especially with the newer high resolution screens. I mean, I am grabbing that very small icon HUNDREDS of times a day

i can't say this bothers me much, but i could see how it might get in the way.

DMack
10-23-2005, 07:01 PM
Hi Layer 01 - Yes, it partly that and it's also something else that I can't quite describe - It's just if I choose to move the perspective 'camera' into the correct position to look at something in LW, I find it REALLY easy and REALLY fast. In messiah, it takes me much longer and feels less 'connected'. Might be something to do with how messiah moves the invisible axis of perspective rotation compared to LW's....

The yellow frame marker size really depends on screen resolution and personal taste - for this reason I have asked in the past that it have a user definable size. I'm guessing that this wouldn't be too time consuming to code but I could be wrong.

Still not heard from any of the PMG crew for a while, so I am hoping that they are cooking something nice for us that will address some of the issues that have been highlighted recently - I have my fingers crossed!

I described Messiah:Animate to my wife (not sure she was actually listening!) as a sports car with a speed limiter and a couple of scratches - I personally don't want to see another feature implemented until one or two of the day to day usability issues have been ironed out - just my opinion. Again don't get me wrong, I am a BIG fan of Animate and am not trying to bash the sw at all. I have recommeneded it to several people and sing it's praises on other areas/forums.

shadowfork
10-23-2005, 07:33 PM
I agree on everything you've said DMack.

The navigation and the logical axis (top view- auto XZ movement only), and that small yellow mark for hi-res display.

Don't forget the GIZMO! hahahaha. I've been mentioning it on most of the threads. A traditional T/R/S gizmo would be very very much appreciated.

Edit sphere doesn't work for me --- maybe only when I'm in Rotate mode.

Please please please pmG guys? :lightbulb

stooch
10-23-2005, 07:42 PM
it would also be nice to include a button that summons bags of money out of thin air.

DMack
10-23-2005, 08:15 PM
Stooch,

Thanks for your constructive comment - really helpful.

David

Layer01
10-24-2005, 03:04 AM
it would also be nice to include a button that summons bags of money out of thin air.

LOL
ahhh....your reputation preceeds you Stooch :rolleyes:

i agree with you Dmack iron out the problems before adding amazing wiz bang stuff...not that i dont like wiz and bang ;)

stooch
10-25-2005, 01:37 AM
jeez dont have to be so uptight. cheer up buddy.

Layer01
10-25-2005, 01:55 AM
jeez dont have to be so uptight. cheer up buddy.

hahah i was being far from uptight. see notice i added the customary "lol" to indicate my laughing, and had a slightly ginning rolley eys icon in my post, to show how i was rolling my eyes and slightly grinning :p
besides... after
it would also be nice to include a button that summons bags of money out of thin air.
is the pot calling the kettle black? :eek:
c'mon.....c'mon admit it, just a little black....just a little?...itsy bitsy? eh? lol <----note
i can assure you i was not being uptight and if i cheer up more i think i'll explode lol
:thumbsup: <----note2

stooch
10-25-2005, 02:25 AM
lol i was replying to DMack, sorry.

DMack
10-25-2005, 11:12 AM
Hi Stooch,

Not uptight, it's just that most of the requests were, as far as I can tell, reasonable and if everyone popped in glib comments (and I mean that as softly as I can) all the time, then the whole forum becomes less useful. All it does is water down the serious requests and leaves people like the coders at PMG with long threads that they have to sift through to actually find out what people are really wanting/having difficulties with.

Don't take this too harshly and please don't just jump back in defense as a matter of course. Just think about your posts and ask yourself if they are constructive/helpful. Thanks.:)

dobermunk
10-26-2005, 09:45 AM
I agree with DMack on the speed of navigation. While in part I see the 'philosophy' of messiah's approach and can work with it fine I too have that nagging feeling that I could be faster.

This applies to the key editor as well. I love the channel edit button and the structure - very fast - just I long to just drag-select my keys and delete or adjust key type or whatever. Also getting the channels I want (my long-winded request for Shift-Nr to toggle selection) would speed things up dramatically.

All said, animating in messiah is a joy.

DMack
10-26-2005, 05:23 PM
It would be great to hear from PMG on this. I agree Dobermunk - animating in messiah IS a joy. When the navigation, Keyframing (inc selection), yellow marker and edit sphere are sorted out (OK this is a reasonably long list now) it will be the most awsome CA tool in the 3D world and will be a complete and utter joy to use!

PMG - Are these things on a list or do you disagree with them? It'd be good to know.

Thanks.:)

shadowfork
10-27-2005, 07:10 AM
PS I still find the yellow triangle to be WAY too small, especially with the newer high resolution screens. I mean, I am grabbing that very small icon HUNDREDS of times a day - again LW's is better here - bigger and therefore easier to 'grab'.


Ah yes, the itsy-bitsy yellow marker.

True, if this was like Lightwave (the block thingy) it could make our lives a little better. An alternate route would be to increase the height of that marker.

Man, that is freakin small, hehehehe.

Maybe they want us to use the 640x480 resolution :D

Just kidding *poke

stooch
10-27-2005, 08:23 AM
Not only making the icons bigger, it would be better to have a more predictable moving setup. IE left mouse button moves on XZ and right on Y.

this way you can reasonably place your object with precision without having to restrict on axis.

DMack
10-27-2005, 09:04 AM
It seems the 'itsy bitsy' (good description!) yellow marker is starting to attract some interest! Multiple routes....a custom size (I'd like mine quite big for easy grabbing and to have the frame number in it!) or make it so that you can drag in the graph editor window (and use RMB to lasso).

It's the little things like this that I REALLY want changing. Right now,I feel that Animate has enough tools to do blinding work.....it's just that if you're going to be doing a whole load of animation, you need FASTER connection between you and the sw and less of the current frustrations (like the oblique angle/edit sphere thingy described on another thread)

Shadowfork - Hmmmm 640X480......I might just do that....and then set it to 16 colours aswell!
I'll say it agin, to be sure, PMG - I think Messiah:Animate rocks! I do hope you're not taking my 'suggestions' the wrong way - I hope they are coming across, as intended, as constructive feedback. Thanks.:thumbsup:

shadowfork
10-27-2005, 05:27 PM
Hehehe. I hope pmG guys won't take these as negative complaints. These are mere suggestions to improve the software from the point of view of its users.

Its the way a software grows.

We love this software. And we care enough to address the issues where it can improve.

Rock on pmG guys! :buttrock:

fwtep
10-27-2005, 10:19 PM
Definitely NOT taking it as whining or complaints.

Fred

shadowfork
10-28-2005, 12:08 AM
Yaaaaaaaaaaay!


:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

DMack
10-28-2005, 09:04 AM
Jolly good Fred!


I look forward to any feedback you guys can give us regards to any development(s) as a result of our day to day nitty gritty discoveries!

CGTalk Moderation
10-28-2005, 09:04 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.