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View Full Version : Yet Another Render Test


Wegg
10-22-2005, 07:50 AM
I saw this (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=279510) thread over in the Luxology area. Impressive stuff. I don't know how the heck they did the anisotropic reflections. Anyone have any ideas?

One image caught my attention. . .

http://adh.best.vwh.net/Tori150.jpg

Renders in 2.5 minutes. No specs on the hardware or anything but. . . pretty cool. GI, Displacement, DOF etc. So I thought I'd try my hand at the same thing in Messiah. See if I could match it.

I whipped out some shaders in Darktree. I tried to stay close to the image on the first two I did but. . . got sick of it so just threw in a default for the last one. Mine aren't as fancy but I think they match the complexity of the Luxology renders. Mine even has some raytracing going on. . . :twisted:


http://www.eggprops.com/%7Eeggington/RenderTests/Displace.jpg
2minutes 10 seconds.

So as you can see . . . I think Messiah is as good NOW as Luxology's "Next generation" renderer that a lot of people are drooling over. At least in this little test. And my hardware isn't even top of the line. . .

Just a Dual Core 4200+ with a Gig if Ram.

There is another render there that took 25 minutes but. . . that would be easy to match. Just crank up things like AA and GI.

The one that only takes 15 seconds? Sheesh. . . I didn't know if I could top that. But I can see that there is a reduction in image quality so. . . I just started ripping things out.

http://www.eggprops.com/%7Eeggington/RenderTests/Displace15.jpg
15 Seconds! Yay!

But then. . . I discovered that Messiah kind of cheats. It doesn't include the time it takes to displace the object in the Total Render Time so. . . Unless I pull out a stop watch. . . I'll never really know.

The End.

shadowfork
10-22-2005, 08:01 AM
Bravo! :applause:

Well done Wegg.

Mike RB
10-22-2005, 08:02 AM
Nice tests. You should try them with a stopwatch to see how long the total times are. That latest render they posted looks very nice. It's great we're getting so many options in renderer's these days.

Mike

Wegg
10-22-2005, 08:06 AM
I think it takes another 10 seconds to displace. . . BUT. . . I just noticed your post over there that said they didn't use GI at all. . . but used ambience! So there is a whole step in mine with calculating GI that they just skip right over! Not that the results are any better on mine but. . . THEY CHEATED! :D I/we still win! YAY!

Mike RB
10-22-2005, 08:22 AM
only on the 15 second one. :)

shadowfork
10-22-2005, 08:35 AM
One thing that stood out for me was the difference in depth-of-field on the right side of the image. There was more depth on luxology's render.

But its no biggie. You still pulled it off :thumbsup:

Good job.

-SF

shadowfork
10-22-2005, 08:42 AM
Quick question for you guys though...

Since we're on the topic of Modo's 'next-gen' renderer...

Does Messiah have a feature of Lightmapping or Render Baking? I have a hunch its a no but I might as well try and ask you Messiah pros :D

This is one of Modo 201's selling point.

Thanks,

-SF

AAAron
10-22-2005, 12:09 PM
Hey
This is so cool, it was one of the first things I thought of whe I saw the images over at lux, that they got a messiah render look. Great idea to test them against eachother, I think you nailed it.:thumbsup:

Chewey
10-22-2005, 12:47 PM
Interesting. Have you posted these in that Modo thread? At first glance I liked what I saw there but there's more to a renderer than just a few beauty shots of course.

Until either renderer has some type of hair/fur solution I'll continue using other renderers that provide that support and more.

stooch
10-22-2005, 04:50 PM
when modo starts supporting animation rendering rather then just stills it will be my render engine of choice. i already put in a request for it and will have it soon. modo and messiah would be a potent combination. (messiah being the animation suite)..

i really think PMG should focus on the best possible integration they can make with modo. I mean flawless integration, with instant feedback between the two. and maximum render connections, ie if i setup some shaders in messiah, have as many settings as possible transfer over to modo and vice versa. since they are so similar....

the reason why im stressing animation so much is rather obvious. render engines are a dime a dozen, it seems like everyone and their uncle is coming up with one. However animation packages that match messiah in power and workflow speed can be counted on one hand. if that. for me, nothing really touches messiahs animation. As far as modeling, modo seems to be the most compact and powerful tool. Ill admit, even better then lightwave. renders. well there are so many choices taht i can use that messiah has a tough time, simple because people tend to stick to what they rock, rendering is such a trial/error thing.

animation though, messiah could be number 1 and should work damn hard to attain that position.

Wegg
10-22-2005, 05:07 PM
only on the 15 second one. :)

Yea I kind of assumed that. Its a little freaky how close the renderers are to each other. Is pmG sub-contracting to Luxology. . ? <Twilight Zone Music>

One thing that stood out for me was the difference in depth-of-field on the right side of the image.

Thats real easy to adjust but it does seem to add to render times when you take it too far.

http://www.eggprops.com/%7Eeggington/RenderTests/DisplaceDOF.jpg
5min 10sec

Does Messiah have a feature of Lightmapping or Render Baking? I have a hunch its a no but I might as well try and ask you Messiah pros.

Your hunch was right. There isn't an option for that but. . . when GI calculates so fast in Messiah. . . its not really needed unless your baking for games. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a welcome addition but I'd much rather fur and better SSS.

Interesting. Have you posted these in that Modo thread?

That would be a little rude wouldn't it? Their product isn't even out yet. What if we had XSI guys popping in here showing off Shave & Haircut or Max guys with V-ray. No. . . lets keep Messiah related posts here. . . and Modo ones there unless they somehow complement to each other. . .

The only reason I'm messing with this stuff is to try and show you guys how cool the Messiah renderer is RIGHT NOW and to encourage you to use it so people visiting here can see that it CAN be used . . . and so they will buy a copy for themselves and in turn speed up development. K? So. . . UES IT!

Wegg
10-22-2005, 05:12 PM
when modo starts supporting animation rendering rather then just stills it will be my render engine of choice. i already put in a request for it and will have it soon. modo and messiah would be a potent combination. (messiah being the animation suite)..

i really think PMG should focus on the best possible integration they can make with modo. I mean flawless integration, with instant feedback between the two. and maximum render connections, ie if i setup some shaders in messiah, have as many settings as possible transfer over to modo and vice versa. since they are so similar....

I think your missing my whole point. I'm showing you proof that the renderer you have RIGHT NOW. . . in Messiah is "kick ass cool" and is ALREADY set up for animation. Having pmG spend their time integrating into Modo would be silly IMO.

YES there should be Point Oven support for Modo. And that would kick major ass for Animate users. But there really isn't a reason for using Modo's renderer when you have Studio. Is there? Am I missing something?

stooch
10-22-2005, 05:16 PM
the thing thats extremely exciting to me is modos texture generation thing they are working on. allowing to generate infinite textures from a low res one. that to me is kickass and if anyone shows me that messiah can do that, ill be the first one rocking it.

Wegg
10-22-2005, 05:26 PM
Can you explain how it works? Or maybe point me to a website?

stooch
10-22-2005, 05:46 PM
Can you explain how it works? Or maybe point me to a website?

hard to describe. as if the program is copying random chunks of the texture in a noise pattern and then cloning various sized feathered slices of the original over the new texture being generated. growing the original textures in the process.

watch the modo demonstartion vid 33 minutes in.

http://www.luxology.com/modo/201/event.aspx

Chewey
10-22-2005, 06:44 PM
snip


That would be a little rude wouldn't it? Their product isn't even out yet. What if we had XSI guys popping in here showing off Shave & Haircut or Max guys with V-ray. No. . . lets keep Messiah related posts here. . . and Modo ones there unless they somehow complement to each other. . .
snip



Yes, it looks like the days of cross forum promotion are indeed behind us.
Yes, let's keep the mesiah related posts here unless we're comparing renderers against a product that isn't even out yet.
:shrug:

Mike RB
10-22-2005, 06:58 PM
When 201 is released I'm sure there will be all kinds of shootout type scenarios to run some tests with. It will be interesting to see how things stack up. Either way, messiah's renderer is pretty spiffy.

Mike

Labuzz
10-22-2005, 08:25 PM
Another test done today. hdri lighting ( 2 bounces monte carlo )+ key light > 3.19 min ( p4 2.6).
the modeling is not finished ( the eyes region in particular, forehead, the nose, no displace in ZB...) but I wanted to render something in messiah. the shading is strictly AON ( http://www.screen-dream.de/AoN_studio.htm ) procedurals...well a bunch of them.
certainly to much of sharp bump...but I will change this later. there's no SSS and no displace yet.

http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shapemessiahskin4vf.jpg

Geco
10-22-2005, 09:15 PM
Can you explain how it works? Or maybe point me to a website?
i think he is speaking about MaP|Zone (www.allegorithmic.com).
it's a Photoshop plug-in (MaP|Time is the AfterFX/Discreet Combustion plug-in).
afaik Luxology will integrate it in modo 201.

Wegg
10-22-2005, 10:11 PM
Well. . . there is a component to darktree that I think has that matched. http://www.shaders.org/enhance:dt/index.htm Its called the "bomber". What it is. . . is you can drive your shader with an image that will be placed randomly. So it would be perfect for say. . . leaves on the ground. Bird poops on a car. . . splashes of paint on a wall etc. Anything that is hard to simulate procedurally. . . but also very repetative to re-create in Photoshop.

Mike RB
10-22-2005, 10:20 PM
The plugin they showed on the event video wasent map|zone. It was somthing new. Either way, cool stuff.

Mike

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