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Kaiser_Sose
11-15-2002, 05:36 AM
How many of you LW users have swithed to wings3d

I dont think many but I have read some are making the move

wgreenlee1
11-15-2002, 05:41 AM
Oh yes Wings...
I'm going to dump the worlds best modeler for Wings3D...........
Yep,I'm ready to jump on the Wings bandwagon.
:rolleyes:

No,serious though is is a great modeler but why would you need it if you have Lightwave.
I admit that I did take off with it as it does have a very intuitive workflow..that is once you get grips with it.




:cool:

SplineGod
11-15-2002, 09:02 AM
Its amazing how many things have a good workflow once you get used to them. ;)

Fabool
11-15-2002, 09:43 AM
I have recently been using Wings3d instead of Lightwave and so far it's great.
I really needed a break from Lightwave, I've been using it a couple of years now and could say that I know the modeler side pretty well, and that brings me to my problem. The better I got to know modeler, the more I got the feeling it was lacking something.
Now, I'm not saying that Lightwave is bad or anything, actually I love it and its UI. Everything's easy to access quite quickly and so on, but there is something getting in the way of my workflow. The sad thing is, I don't really know what it is. It could also just be a bad modeling process on my part and have nothing to do with the program. That's why I took some time off from Lightwave and decided to try something new.

Well, anyway Wings has been great so far. It really forces you to work in the perspective view, which quite effectively eliminates some problems with proportions in character modeling. The main things I like about Wings are Virtual mirror and the great magnet tools. I also love the lighting, it's way better than in Lightwave modeler.
One rather interesting thing that I noticed when working in Wings is that I use something like four to six different tools (cut, connect,move/rotate/scale etc.) when in Lightwave I usually end up using over a dozen different tools and plugins.

At the moment Wings is quite unforgiving. There's only one undo and selections count as an action so you have to save all the time. I'm eager to see how the program will develop in the future. If they just add more undos and a few other features, I'd say I might consider using Wings for modeling and Lightwave for tweaking and everything else.

Jaspar
11-15-2002, 10:34 AM
I make alot of my base models in wings 'cos I find it quicker, and then export to LW for tidying. I love the hover highlight and the mirror and edge tools, much easier to construct the geometry. Having said that, I don't know modeller that well, so I'd probably find that I could do most of the stuff as easily straight from LW.

Fabool: It does have multiple undos, same as PS, Ctrl-Alt Z.

I'd probably completely switch to Wings if it had sub-Ds, statistics (w style), layers and weld tools. Oh yeah, and a proper manual would be nice...

Role on version 1!

meloncully
11-15-2002, 10:38 AM
you do know that you can assign hotkeys to anything???

in any menu, just let your mouse hover over what you want to make a hotkey for, then press insert, and then hit the key you want assigned to that command.

SplineGod
11-15-2002, 11:31 AM
Thats funny...when modeling characters in lightwave I find that I use about 4 or 5 tools 90% of the time and I can fly thru modeling. I dont see how seeing something in perspective all the time has much to do with getting proportions right. Look at human face proportions in general: A head is 5 eyes wide. There is one eye distance between both eyes. Its pretty hard to get that wrong....etc etc. I find that once I understand two things:Flow and proportions it goes quickly and easily. Usually the problem most people have (not saying thats you since I dont know your background) is that they really dont know what theyre modeling. Many people try and model point by point, creating and eye, another eye, nose and so on without REALLY understanding the proportions and flow first. The result is a lot of frustration and a bad looking head. I think LWs work flow is awesome. I dont have to THINK about the tools...I just DO it. :)

mix
11-15-2002, 12:39 PM
Hmmmm,
I like wings for pretty much the same reasons as mentioned above.
The magnet tools=much more intuative than LW's version.
Vertial mirror= mirrors everything you do across an object and not just 50% of what you do.
Edges=realy flexable and can bevel points.
Similar selection=this is one tool I wont in LW for sure.
Edgeloop= you can edgeloop multiple selections at the same time.

But for all that, I still think LWs modeler kicks everything elses asses, so why look anywere else.:buttrock:

yon dabuda
11-15-2002, 12:47 PM
Fabool,

i dont see why you couldn't model in perspective in LW.
i love how points move in perspective, just as i would expect, and moving points on their axis is a brainless ctrl+drag.
i do almost all of my modelling in a perspective windows (wireframe and smoothed) with the perspective amount at minimum.

and i agree with SplineGod about using tools. most of the time i use half a dozen tools to create and modify geometry, and selecting the tools is a simple keystroke.

DotPainter
11-15-2002, 02:53 PM
I like some of the features of wings, but I don't see it being worth the time spent learning how to use it properly. Since I don't have much free time, I would rather spend it learning modeller. However great modeller may be though, I think it would be even better with a few enhancements. Namely, reducing the impact and amount of mis-flipped polys would be nice. Also enhancing some of the current tools would get rid of that "somethings missing" feeling.

For mechanical modelling there are some features missing. For example, there is no true lofting or bridging functionality in lightwave and along with that no chamfer,fillet or trimming curve functionality. Those are some very useful things that, while seemingly small, really do impact on a great many modelling situations, especially for mechanical type stuff. The spline rails are nice but they get quite messy and often generate more points than desired. That's where a good loft/bridging tool would come in handy, I think.

For organic modelling, the features are there but in many cases they could be enhanced to make a great workflow even better. For example, wings has edge loops, which is a lightwave bandsaw lateral split applied to a series of polys (not just a band either) with the ends of the chain tied into a 4 poly. Something like that would be great in lightwave. As for the magnet tool it too is great, but it does take some getting used to I guess.....

SplineGod
11-15-2002, 07:49 PM
Lofting - http://www.m2estudios.com/plugins.html
Lofting - http://www.plugins.esperiajans.com/
Lofting - http://www.skstudios.com/VertiTilities.htm
Bridging - http://www.polas.net/plugins/plugs_menu.php
Polysew(bridging) - http://www.m2estudios.com/plugins.html
Fillets - http://plaza17.mbn.or.jp/~PICTRIX/
Actually pictrix has a LOT of mechanically oriented modeling tools.

For edge loops:
Bandsaw - builit in
Bandglue - builit in
Bandsaw Pro - builit in
Jigsaw - http://www.infoseek.livedoor.com/~f_ichikawa/
quicksaw - http://www.davidikeda.com/quicksaw.html
edge tools - http://www.dstorm.co.jp/DS_E/index-e.html
edge bevel - http://www.daz3d.com/pages/dp/development/developright.html
bandslice - http://www.m2estudios.com/plugins.html
Also EVERYONE of the tools under the modify menu has a built in magnet tools. Next time you select say the rotate tool, hit the n key and look carefully at the TYPE of falloff controls you have. You can even use weight maps in modeler and only effect certain areas in a number of ways. Modeler is far more powerful then most people know.

wgreenlee1
11-15-2002, 09:17 PM
The only thing that can be wrong with Lightwave is "Operator Headspace"......other than that its a fine program.

CTRL+X
11-15-2002, 09:52 PM
>>>"Operator Headspace"<<<

LOL

Lightwave modeler has nothing wrong with its workflow... if you find you use other software besides LW Modeler means you are still searching for something that fits your needs..

but view it this way..

so you get good at another app besides LW,, what does it mean??......nothing... what got you good is not the app, but yourself and your abillities, and when you reach that point it doesnt matter what app you use, your greatness in modeling will be a product of the disipline to your craft and artform,, and at that point you will realize the app is only a tool to create what your minds eye sees.

so when I see someone say this app is better than that app, I tend to think that that person puts faith in the app to compensate for thier lack of creative abillity.

yon dabuda
11-15-2002, 10:03 PM
this might be interesting to some, but for organic modelling like character modelling, you can blaze using just smoothshift, spinquad and move/drag tool. thats basically all i use. you could model a pretty detailed character head with ears and all in under an hour, and with symmetry perfect throughout the construction.
just takes a little knowhow. i might make a little video to demonstrate.

whattawa
11-15-2002, 10:43 PM
Well, I am sure I shouldn't add my two cents in this discussion because before I started seeing how much more control other programs have, I thought LW was the be-all-end-all.

Wings is a great program if you want ultimate control and ease of use, but it can't handle very large models. It doesn't do many of the things that you can do in LW. In fact, as was mentioned above, many people model the base in Wings and then bring it in Lightwave for the good stuff because they want that accuracy and speed in modelling but Wings still can't quite do it all.

I am still a die-hard LW fan but not because it has all the tools I need. I am a die-hard LW fan because I know that any tool I need can be made for LW and because the program does so much straight out of the box. Our programmer (I work at DAZ, where Edge Tools and other plugins came from) is able to make any tool we want. Currently, because edges aren't incorporated in LW we need work-arounds for them, but Newtek tries to be pretty aware of what the users need and things change for the better all the time with updates. We looked at many modelling packages before deciding LW was the one. Even ignoring the huge difference in price compared to other programs, LW is the one that had most benefits to our workflow. The price is nice, too, though. :)

By the way CTRL+X, wishing there were better tools in a program has NOTHING to do with lack of creative ability. It has to do with being able to more simply accomplish your vision. All a program is is a way to reach your artwork. Most people would rather be able to finish a product in 10 hours instead of 20. If it's LW that does that, great, if it's Wings, great. It still has nothing to do with what you said in your last paragraph.

mix
11-15-2002, 11:35 PM
Hi whattawa,
Hows the Edgebevel update coming along, Been waiting as Im sure many others have.:)

whattawa
11-16-2002, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by mix
Hi whattawa,
Hows the Edgebevel update coming along, Been waiting as Im sure many others have.:)

Oh yeah, that....Forgot about that....JK

Well, I have to be honest, it has been ready all this week but our programmer was going to compile it for the Mac as well so we were waiting for that. He got the flu (as did half the people around me) and hasn't worked for 3 days. He just came back to work and we talked about it and I found one more bug that is pretty minor. It is something that he can fix very quickly. The new version will create UVs for the new polys that get created (not perfectly, but at least you don't lose them anymore), it doesn't have any math errors (that we can find) so no more assymetry problems like people have been posting, and it will be available for the Mac as well. I don't know for sure when it will be out, but he seemed confident that this weekend is a great time to finish it up. Sorry it's been taking so long. We're working on it :)

mix
11-16-2002, 12:57 AM
Cool, can't wait.
:buttrock:

DotPainter
11-16-2002, 04:57 PM
Thanks SplineGod! Those links were nice.
However, I have to say I had to chuckle when I went through them, because it brings to mind all of the arguments about plugins versus built in functionality. Namely they are: old plugins, not in english, and not exactly well documented.....
I don't know why, but it was funny to me.:beer:

Speaking of documentation, I know that modeller has a lot of falloff options for various tools, but I have not been able to really get a good feel for how to use them. Call it operator headspace or whatever, but there are too many "hidden" jewels in modeller, because some features/options are not documented well enough, in my opinion. That said, better to have the jewels and be pleasantly surprised when finding them than not to have them at all...... :thumbsup:

Fuzatron
11-16-2002, 06:32 PM
I like Wings a lot. I modeled my avatar in Wings soon after I started using it. And in just a few hours... that is actually fast for me :p (default wing's lighting btw :hmm: ) more... (http://www.fuse9.com/orc/)

The thing that got me hooked on Wings was being able to make sense of those cool time-lapse vids by MartinK and Bay. The simple interface and workflow are really nice. But you do have to download a couple of plugs, set up your keys, and adjust some prefs first.

Anyway... I still have a lot to learn in LightWave, and think I will be better off spending most of my time in Modeler in the longrun. There is no question about which is the more powerful modeler. It is just that Wings is really good at what it can do.... imho

SplineGod
11-16-2002, 08:13 PM
Most of the plugins I meantioned arent that old. Bandsaw and Bandglue have been around a long time. Its surprising how few ppl know about them though. Part of the problem of documentation is that everyone has their own idea of what is proper, how much is proper and in what format it should be presented. Look at the sheer size of the manual now. If it was any bigger nobody would ever get anything done because theyd be reading all the time. :)
Also, look at the sheer number of tools and plugins from pictrix, flay, dstorm and so on. Just the links I posted have a TON of material. I dont see how its possible to add in every tool that everyone would want. There are those who do architectural and mechanical modeling vs those who focus on organic or character. The tool sets each group wants are large and very different. Im just glad that its easy to write plugins and lscripts and that I can decided which tools I want to clutter my hard drive with. :)

bleep
11-16-2002, 09:12 PM
"Im just glad that its easy to write plugins and lscripts and that I can decided which tools I want to clutter my hard drive with."

sorry but it's BS... i'd rather have all those tools implemented in LW's core and have the possibilities to use em or not,at least they will be fast and reliable (ie they won't crash LW that often)

So lets's keep LW like it is and you will never need to update again NT! Just makes scripts and everyone will be happy to see that LW have alot of support by 3rd party instead of the devellopers... heh, allright.

You can't blame people for preafering features in other packages and you say they don't know enough LW's modeler and it's possibilities. If they like a feature in another software it's because they found an easier way to work in and LW failed to offer a proper easy solution for them. Nothing wrong in that, it just mean LW have to evolve a bit modelling wise, nothing that NT can't do.
every package have pro and cons, even LW.

more tools=more ways to achieve your goal = great.

"If it was any bigger nobody would ever get anything done because theyd be reading all the time."

sure... that's why there is many great maya users out there. Maya documentation is scary, that doesn't make this package totally unused. At least they have manuals that goes deep in the software and explain things in a pretty great way, props to them for that. Can't say that about LW' manual. it's short, yes, but does it say lotsa things about the tools? no. if the net didn't exist i'd still trying to figure why smooth shift is so much praised...

btw LW's symetrie is a pain and edge tools makes lightwave crash more often than max...thought it was impossible but it's not hehe...
(jsut adding random rantsabout LW and scripts)

CIM
11-16-2002, 09:41 PM
"Im just glad that its easy to write plugins and lscripts and that I can decided which tools I want to clutter my hard drive with."

sorry but it's BS... i'd rather have all those tools implemented in LW's core and have the possibilities to use em or not,at least they will be fast and reliable (ie they won't crash LW that often)

So lets's keep LW like it is and you will never need to update again NT! Just makes scripts and everyone will be happy to see that LW have alot of support by 3rd party instead of the devellopers... heh, allright.

You can't blame people for preafering features in other packages and you say they don't know enough LW's modeler and it's possibilities. If they like a feature in another software it's because they found an easier way to work in and LW failed to offer a proper easy solution for them. Nothing wrong in that, it just mean LW have to evolve a bit modelling wise, nothing that NT can't do.
every package have pro and cons, even LW.

more tools=more ways to achieve your goal = great.

"If it was any bigger nobody would ever get anything done because theyd be reading all the time."

sure... that's why there is many great maya users out there. Maya documentation is scary, that doesn't make this package totally unused. At least they have manuals that goes deep in the software and explain things in a pretty great way, props to them for that. Can't say that about LW' manual. it's short, yes, but does it say lotsa things about the tools? no. if the net didn't exist i'd still trying to figure why smooth shift is so much praised...

btw LW's symetrie is a pain and edge tools makes lightwave crash more often than max...thought it was impossible but it's not hehe...
(jsut adding random rantsabout LW and scripts)

More pointless bitching from someone who doesn't have a clue.

I think Splinegod makes things pretty clear, so I'm not gonna waste my time.

Use what gets the job done.

SplineGod
11-16-2002, 09:47 PM
Whats BS? How can you expect a company to think of every POSSIBLE tool that EVERYONE would possibly want? Thats completely ridiculous and unrealistic. There are literally thousands of plugins out there. I dont care how big your company or how many resources you have every possible tool will NEVER be implemented. EVERY 3D app out there has 3rd party plugins.
Lightwave has been extremely stable for me and others.
You are contradicting yourself. How can you expect LW to have ALL the tools in its core that you think should be there and yet expect it to have flaws? People sometimes prefer other tools or programs simply because thats the way they think or work. I can guarentee you that there are so many great Maya users for the same reason that there are great XSI, Max and Lightwaver users: because they DO it rather then spending all their time reading or talking about it. Its a dream to think that just reading will make you great at anything (except reading maybe). Its funny...I hear from a lot of Max users that Max is the one that crashes alot and I hear the same from Maya users. Everyones program of choice seems to be the buggiest program ever. Most like thats because you are pushing the software (unless youre reading too much). :)

Mike RB
11-16-2002, 11:12 PM
I have no problem modeling exactly what I want in a resonable amount of time with LW modeler. And I'm a relative newbie, I didn't get involved with LW until 6.0b, and I've only been using it professionally since 7.0

Mike

DotPainter
11-17-2002, 01:05 AM
I think for most people it comes down to comfort level with the tools at hand( which of course is a veerrry personal thing so not really useful practically). To me that means tools that behave exactly the way you expect and don't require hours of research online, in the manual or just goofing around to figure out. However, every person approaches things differently and therefore what is comfortable for one is not comfortable for others. So I guess that it is human nature for those using a particular application to get used to a certain set of tools/features and come to expect a certain standard behavior and functionality of similar tools across applications. For example, many using lightwave will extoll smooth shift, but in other apps there would be other tools/combos that serve the same purpose. Cest la vie as they say....

The lightwave tools are great I think, so don't get me wrong. My goal is to learn every nook and cranny if I can. I like what is in the app, but still have my on personal ideas on what might make it better (fit my imaginary idea of what a perfect 3d app should posses )..... In the mean time, hopefully I will get to know as much as SplineGod or B**d *ss MikeRB one day. :buttrock:

SplineGod
11-17-2002, 01:25 AM
Tools can only behave the way you expect if you come into the program with preexisting expectations (youve used another 3D app already). So what is logical to one person is based on what they have already learned somewhere else. Most people have developed their own workflow and habits already (except a complete newbie). At that point its easy because they know how to use a tool or are comfy with THEIR way of using a tool. Many apps have similar tools but implement them differently (something lightwave has always been good at).
To become comfy with a tool set or workflow...that comes with working with the program a lot, listening to more experienced people, experimenting, reading, working thru tutorials and looking for tools or plugins that are better or feel more logical. :)

bleep
11-17-2002, 04:43 AM
I don't expect NT to think about all way of doing things or implement ALL features.

Scripts are common in any packages...but seeing features that aren't incorporated since a while is just weird. Wings is not any revolutionary, it's almost all copied on nendo / Mirai and they have been out since a long time and still are the best modelling wise.

That's all i am saying. Seeing edge tools script and how much it's praised and waited that long for we can see something like that in LW and not even done by NT... i mean this feature should have been implemented a long time ago for example as it exist in other packages for a LONG time. now i agree you don't NEED it you can use LW default modeller tools and model all you want, but it's one of the tools that have to be implemented, beetween lots of others. it's all about options of doing things and lotsa time little things make the difference.

i'm not pick about LW particulary all packages have flaws, i'm just saying the modeller need a big update.

i'm saying that it should be in core rather than always relying on scripts. that's all.

Don't get me wrong i like LW alot but i can see some flaws, perhaps just related to my own workflow, and perhaps to some other too, but what user of any package can't?

About the reading part, they sure do alot of it but manual can be great too, it doesn t need to be that light and "teach" users trick and tips rather than letting people search by themselves. that's exactly where max and maya are really good. the documentation and tutorials are nifty and i can't say that about LW's manual that is rather "poor" (kudos for newtek to have somewhat filled the gasp by investing lotsa time on doing tutorials on NT's site btw)

I totally agree with you about the fact that having used another package before makes you expect things to work in a certain way and wish to have those tools in the package they are switching on, and i agree that you have to be able to understand the workflow of the package you use before complaining about it. But even understanding makes you blind and doen t make you wish to see other tools you may preafer to work with.

CTRL+X
11-17-2002, 04:53 AM
I dont understand why people keep bitchin for more and more fat to be added to LW,, damn, if there are free scripts and 3rd party plugs Like Edge Tools that can be DL and assiged to a hotkey or menu what the hell is the difference if its a script or outta the box???

If you want a big fat bloated package go use MAX!!,, drive that big ass winnebago of a software package around for a few weeks and after it crashes every other hour on ya then you'll see one reason why LW is so sweet to use. Its lean and mean.

wgreenlee1
11-17-2002, 07:21 AM
CTRL+X..............you said it all.

SplineGod
11-17-2002, 10:53 AM
CTRL X - Thats funny! :)

DotPainter
11-17-2002, 05:25 PM
Just because something is in a plugin does not make an application more stable. Plugins can also be buggy and cause crashes. The bottom line is the fact that plugins exist only attest to the tremendous amount of functionality necessary in a 3d program, in order to satisfy different users workflows and preferences. Proof: how many would use modeller without the plugins? Regardless of whether it is in a plugin or built in, there is going to always be a challenge for developers trying to integrate as much functionality as possible into an app while maintaining stability. Some apps are better than others in this respect. Lightwave seems to have provided a very useful, stable, top notch tool, even if not fully loaded with every gizmo in 3d. As long as loading a load of plugins into modeller doesn't make it unstable or buggy, I don't see why plugins should be scorned, lacking a built in version of the same feature.

whattawa
11-18-2002, 09:06 PM
I think that the biggest issue is not that Newtek does not include every possible plugin in LW, though some have said they don't like how many plugins there are. I agree with the others who feel plugins are great. If 3rd party developers can't build plugins that do exactly what they want, a program is dead. LW, luckily, is alive and kicking.

But is it wrong to want edges? If only edges were written into the architecture many more plugins could be developed. Not having edges is a weakness of Lightwave that will not become strong until NT puts them in. Being able to select edges in addition to points and polys would give us so much more. Here at DAZ, we have been developing tools that give you edges. Our programmer won't release anything soon that puts edges into LW because a plugin written by us for edges is only a workaround. It would be slow and possibly unstable. It would lose it's usefulness. If NT put edges into LW, we could much more easily work with LW to make all kinds of plugins from there.

I don't think the issue with edges is that LW would become an unstable, worthless program like some of the other 3D apps out there. These guys at Newtek are good programmers. They have given us great updates to LW that have been drastic changes from earlier architectures without making LW just another unstable 3D app.

I don't care whether NT includes a bunch of junk in the next full version of LW. All I care about is that edges are incorporated. Ignoring edges, I can't think of anything else they could do to the Modeller that would make it all that much better. Well, a history/LSCommander like Layout's would be nice, but....

CTRL+X
11-18-2002, 09:24 PM
Agreed, but I think as history shows that the most accepted 3rd party gets included eventually. and I am not sure what agreements exist between NT and developers for rights to include the plugin to the core of LW. But that said I think it is the best for the community that developers push for excellence to get that acceptance in the community and THEN for NT to recognize that need in the form of feedback from the community and then hammer out aggrements with the developers of a particular plugin to get it included to the core.

If I ran a software Co. that had open Arch. with 3rd party support I sure as heck would have a wait and see attitude before dishing out royalties per seat sold or however it is done.

whattawa
11-19-2002, 08:18 PM
So, what you're saying is that we should release tools that utilize our own "edges" since it might be a while before NT releases them? :)

The only issues I have with that are speed of the plugins and since edges aren't a button you can select, it's still only a work-around. But, if it's going to be a while before they release edges, if they even do it, I guess it would be worth it to those that like them. maybe we'll get working on them again....

SplineGod
11-19-2002, 10:09 PM
Lack of edge manipulation may be a weakness but a minor one. As it is right now its pretty easy to create new edges, change their flow and get local detail. Theres already enough plugins to allow this "weakness" to be easily gotten around....as least for me and my workflow. :)

Tudor
11-20-2002, 08:13 AM
If you have ever seen Mayas hard edge feature, you would want to have edges.. Setting sharp creases that way instead of via smoothing angle rocks.. The same goes for setting point weight with subpatches. If we could set that on edges it would be really cool.

Amphiblien
11-20-2002, 08:22 AM
Nendo is a "watered down" version of Mirai. Wings 3D is a Nendo Clone on Steroids, that is evolving into more of a Mirai clone than a Nendo clone. The real strength of this toolset is edge manipulation. It is very powerful. There are some new free plugins to LW that give it edge functionality, but hell, Wings 3D is free! You aren't going to get a better deal than that! I was impressed with the latest version that I downloaded.

The only reason I'm offering my $.02 is because I'd like to see this tool increase in popularity and hopefully inspire more development in edge modeling. Maybe within LW 8?

This isn't like investigating Messiah or something thats going to cost you a lot of money and/or time to learn. It's FREAK'N FREE and easy to use! I'm not suggesting that Wings is better or that you couldn't get the same results in LW. LW is great. I'm sure that the Spline God can make LW sing. Wings is just another tool that might give you another perspective or perhaps compliment your workflow.

I pass my models seamlessly through Mirai and Maya via the .obj format all day long at work, and go between Mirai and LW at home. Until I find a workflow that is more powerful for me, I'll keep giggling to myself while using Mirai for all my Lightwave and Maya needs.....

BS
:thumbsup:

SplineGod
11-20-2002, 09:20 AM
Dont get me wrong. I agree that the real edge manipulation woud be great. I can model very quickly in modeler and having to jump between apps would slow me down drastically. Im just saying that with the current lightwave toolset AND a slew of free edge manipulation tools for modeler already available Im just happy to wait for the real deal in LW. :)

CTRL+X
11-20-2002, 04:41 PM
I downloaded that there wings and gave it a spin because others had said it was like Nendo Extreme or something, and I used to use Nendo alot for creating models for MAX before MAX had its newer features and Honestly I think Nendo was better,, this wings interface seems sluggish and menu selections responce is odd.... but still,,, yes it is alot like nendo just not as intuitive as Nendo is (was)..but I can understand why you would want to use it....for me modeling in Nendo was far superior to modeling in MAX, but it was about that time that I got my hands on LW and it made no sense to use max or nendo again,,,,, but thats just me.

SplineGod
11-20-2002, 06:03 PM
For me its as much about workflow as it anything else. Whether its a cool free modeler or plugin it has to improve my workflow, not slow it down.

Amphiblien
11-20-2002, 08:18 PM
Spline God,

If you assume that it will slow you down whether you have tried it or not then it most certainly will!


:)

SplineGod
11-20-2002, 10:27 PM
Im pretty sure that having to save, load, work on it, save load work on it is going to not only slow me down but make me lose focus. Its not just about tools but workflow. There would just have to be some overwhelmingly have to have killer tools to get me to jump back and forth like that. Thats pretty much why I stick with Lightwave...because Ive yet to see anyone do anything in another app that makes me just have to get it. It makes more sense for me to keep the workflow as much in one app as I can. Others can feel free to do it differently. :)

nitsuj
11-21-2002, 12:26 AM
i've been using wings for a while now.

i must say it is very good. fast. stable. multiple undos and redos. built in autosave feature that allows incremental saves .

It is not lightwave however. but then it is not supposed to be.

it is not competition to lw. few things are. :love:

but it is a small download (about 2mb) and a very good modeller. and i find it has become a integral part of my 3d workflow.

try it or don't try it is everyone;'s individual choice.

that is all.







:love:

SplineGod
11-21-2002, 12:55 AM
I didnt say it was competing with Lightwave.
I know it has lots of good features.
I simply said that it has to be overwhelmingly better at some things to make me change my workflow. :)

Fabool
11-21-2002, 09:46 AM
I've been thinking a bit about the difference between Lightwave and Wings and what makes Wings a bit more intuitive to use on my part.
I think it has to do with the profile of the program. Wings feels more like an actual sculpting based approach, while I see Lightwave more as an architects or some mechanical designers' tool, a bit hard to explain but hopefully you get what I'm aiming for. Lightwave feels more suited to static objects and vehicles, buildings etc. while Wings is aimed more towards characters and organic modeling.
I think this shows in the toolset and UI as well. Lightwave has grids, separate orthographic views and more options to do precisely calculated actions than Wings does. Wings relies more on rough forms.
And I've always been more of a sculptor than mechanical designer and am more interested in characters than vehicles, so it would seem logical, but as always this is only my view and could even be totally wrong.

When I am working in Lightwave my default UI has a perspective window on the left side and left and front ortho views on the right side. I just didn't feel comfortable working in perspective only in lw, strange, because I feel totally natural working in perspective only with Wings, while I still don't feel like it in Lightwave, even though I now use it in Wings.
With Lightwave this caused the fact, that I tried to model organic forms too much using the gridlines. I always, without noticing tried to match everything nicely along the gridlines and/or points so that the model did look clean, but not so organic any more.

Wings has multiple undos? This is most excellent news.
I always tend to dive straight into the program without checking the documents too carefully and when ctrl-z didn't undo multiple times I thought there weren't any implemented yet. Thanks for the heads up.

SplineGod
11-21-2002, 10:23 AM
Wow! I find lightwave to be an excellent organic modeling tool.
Many of the people I know doing architectural work seem to think it lacks somewhat in that area...interesting. :)
I usually turn the grid off when modeling anything organic so it does feel more sculpy. I do some tweaking in the perspective window. Lightwave is pretty flexible for me...having a great suite of organic tools as well as nice things for mechanical modeling.
I find organic modeling to be exceptionally easy because I end up using about 4 - 8 tools most of the time.

markdc
02-02-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by CIM

Use what gets the job done.

Except max or Poser, right CIM? Maybe you should take your own advice.

Rabid pitbull
02-03-2003, 01:42 AM
omg are you actually digging throgh all of cims post so you can comment on them... you need to get up from the computer now, and get over it..... :scream:

wgreenlee1
02-03-2003, 09:50 AM
Originally posted by Rabid pitbull
omg are you actually digging throgh all of cims post so you can comment on them... you need to get up from the computer now, and get over it..... :scream:

Kinda weird aint it?

GOLM
02-03-2003, 03:53 PM
I've read through the thread and there are alot of replies that you can use 2, 4, 8 tools to model organicly.

so what are those tools? smooth shift, spin poly and drag was mentioned, are there any tutorials on using these to model?


Jason

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