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gginther
10-20-2005, 04:18 PM
Hi Folks,

I was hoping that anyone with experience using C4D and XSI might be able to comment on C4d and XSI from a modeling perspective. Our character dept. is evaluating moving away from Maya for modeling tasks. We're using Zbrush for organic stuff, but would like to have an app to do the pre-Zbrush setup and also hard surface mechanical object-type stuff. Since we're concerned with mainly modeling right now we're looking at C4Dr9 (no added modules) and XSI Foundation. I've been using C4D for years so I've been doing a few demos for the person who is actually doing the evaluations (yes, Modo & Silo have also been evaluated. I'm not the one doing the evaluations so I don't know any details other than it seems like they're not being considered right now), but I was hoping someone with a little more familiarity with both might be able to offer some comments on modeling toolsets, learning curve, etc... We're a game company, so we would be working with high poly models for normal map generation.

thanks,

Gray

sebek27
10-20-2005, 04:50 PM
personally I used XSI demo 4.2 and 5 and I find the modeling tools in C4D9 a lot easier to use and I can model stuff much faster. I think Modo has some great modeling tools and is also easy to use plus the 201 update will have a really really fast and high end renderer - but personally I prefer C4D9 over any of these, but I wish it was less expensive than the other apps.

rgwarren
10-20-2005, 04:51 PM
We're a game company, so we would be working with high poly models for normal map generation.

I'm assuming the high-poly normal mapping you're doing is via Z-Brush? C4D is quite usable for low-poly modelling coupled with Z-Brush to provide the displacement maps.

It's hard to start to answer your question regarding which app would be best without knowing the workflow past the modelling step.

Both apps are great (my preference would be C4D 9+). However, without all the specifics this thread would become rather messy in terms of an "app war" thread.

FantaBurky
10-20-2005, 05:03 PM
I LOVE Softimage XSI but I ENJOY C4D. C4D is great (IMO) for everything, comercials, visualizations, images etc. But one thing Softimage XSI is way better then ANY other 3D program, is that its fully integreted with AVID which is the tool 85% of the movie buisness uses to edit their films. So, I use Softimage when it comes to VFX, and C4D mainly for fun, but also to create the more creative projects which dont really requires photoreal looks but fantasy appealing looks. Like the shortfilm I'm creating, definatly C4D, since its way more creative and faster in many ways. Not saying Softimage aint creative, but its a bit less user-friendly and for me, only for VFX.

gginther
10-20-2005, 05:18 PM
Hi Guys,

thanks for your replys.

Actually, we have been doing our normal maps & Ambient Occlusion maps with Microwave in Maya. maybe with Zbrush's new Displacement exporter we can start outputting normal maps from Zbrush, but in the past we got better results with microwave.

Here's a typical workflow:
low poly model in Maya that would either then go to Zbrush or stay in Maya to make a high poly version. The final high poly and low poly models are brought in to one Maya file together for normal casting with Microwave. The normal map & low poly model are then exported into the game engine.

That's sort of a simplified workflow but that's basically it. personally, I like r9's modeling tools a lot. What we're looking to improve on over Maya is dissatisfaction with the modeling tools for high poly hard surfaces work (specifically the bevel tool is proving to be Maya's Achilles heel), stability issues, trouble working with & casting geometry that exceeds 1-2 million polys, among others. If anyone need further clarification please feel free to ask.

thanks.
Gray

Per-Anders
10-20-2005, 05:59 PM
For poly modeling, Cinema 4D is imo far superior to XSI, the workflow and toolset is just great. If you were talking about animating I'd say go with XSI. For normal map generation, XSI's new baking tool is better than C4D's, but on the other hand for such a thing i'd use z-brushes new displace exporter for that over anything else now.

In general with what you want to do, i'd suggest simply trying out the demo with some of your meshes, it can import fine it just can't save. Cinema is a very stable app compared to Maya/XSI, it's viewports whilst not as fast as XSI's are still pretty fast and perfectly capable of handling multimillion polygon objects (and rather more with the 64bit version).

jimzepellin
10-20-2005, 06:35 PM
I use both. C4D for modelling and speed. XSI for animation. I enjoy using C4D, I have to use XSI. You get more for your money With XSI foundation compared with C4D base. But I'd rather spend my money on C4D. Well actually I spent money on both but I did'nt mind so much spending it on C4D.

andronikos916
10-20-2005, 07:19 PM
make the same question to XSI forum! ...I vote c4d. But I am c4d guy!

cy,
Andronikos

michaeli
10-21-2005, 01:25 AM
Although XSI's CA part is far more better than C4D's, I still vote for C4D.
But things seem to change as I found this today: http://www.spot3d.com/vray/images/xsi/vray-xsi.png ,
if there's no Vray connection for C4D, I will change my vote for XSI. :D

andronikos916
10-21-2005, 02:16 AM
After millions of e-mails to chaos about bridge Vray-C4D, XSI users get the first non-max plugin! :sad: ..or did Maya was the first one?

at least they seem to show interest in othr 3d soft.

cy,
Andronikos

guypapyrus
10-21-2005, 03:09 AM
I have both C4D and XSI FND (4.2). I still like Wings3D for general modeling, at least for roughing out shapes, though C4D's tools are growing on me. I haven't tried modeling too much with XSI: to me it feels clunky, though most XSI devotees I've heard address the issue tend to love it. I could see warming up to it, but I can't think of a particularly compelling reason to, as C4D has risen to the occasion for me on every count.

If having a construction history is important, than maybe XSI would edge out.

Best,
Andrew

Leonardo Vega
10-21-2005, 03:43 AM
I've been using both and I think the gigapolygon core and ultimapper make XSI stand out. It's so easy and stable to apply normal maps. I don't think you can say one is better than the other for modeling. I don't see a tool C4D has that XSI doesn't and vice-versa. I think it's preference.

I do recommend you posting this in the XSI forum too. But I wouldn't make a choice based on other's opinion. XSI's 30-day trial should help you compare the too, and the nice thing about the 30-day trial is that you can actually test it in your pipeline and do actual work with it. Then again C4D demo has no time limit, but you can't save with it.

Btw, if you download the tutorials off from softimage's website, they have a tutorial on polygon modeling and making "mechanical" stuff. This should help you get a feel for XSI.

- Leo

Hilt
10-21-2005, 06:22 AM
I'd vote for C4D any hour of the day, but it cant compete in dynamics and CA.

..And XSI has Linux version and ports to rock'n'roll -renders (mentalray, renderman, povray?) which Cinema lacks. So when looking at specs for both apps, it is pretty obvious why crowd consider XSI over C4D for studio/film-quality work.

Per-Anders
10-21-2005, 06:26 AM
I'm guessing you've not heard of the Production Bundle then?

Hilt
10-21-2005, 06:35 AM
I'm guessing you've not heard of the Production Bundle then?

I've heard about it's price tag. It doesnt exist for freelancers/hobbyists -only for the big boys.

j3st3r
10-21-2005, 07:03 AM
I'm going with xsi. It's the fastest modeller I've ever seen. I think one cannot make declaration based upon few weeks of using a tool. I've spent four years with max, another four with LW, one year with Maya and C4D, now almost two years with XSI, and actually to me XSI is the best. But it's personal preference, another may feel C4D much better. So I suggest you to test them all and what fits you the best, choose that. I've seen many outstanding artwork with C4D, so I think, it's really good package, and I love bodypaint in it, although the modelling is not my taste.

moka.studio
10-21-2005, 07:24 AM
I'm going with xsi. It's the fastest modeller I've ever seen. I think one cannot make declaration based upon few weeks of using a tool. I've spent four years with max, another four with LW, one year with Maya and C4D, now almost two years with XSI, and actually to me XSI is the best. But it's personal preference, another may feel C4D much better. So I suggest you to test them all and what fits you the best, choose that. I've seen many outstanding artwork with C4D, so I think, it's really good package, and I love bodypaint in it, although the modelling is not my taste.

A lot might have changed regarding Modelling Worflow and modelling Tools in C4d since you tried it....
I think it is a case of personnal preference, most of the polygonal modellers are starting to become more and more similar to one another anyway.

selfmadepixels
10-22-2005, 08:45 PM
I think it is a case of presonnal preference, most of the polygonal modellers are started to become more and more similar to one another anyway.

yeah..100% agree....i've used XSI and it's fairly a great piece of software, but i've seen people doing great things on every application....so, the difference i think it's due to passion and dedicated time....:)

j3st3r
10-23-2005, 06:59 AM
Good trend, because if I'm forced to work in another program, I won't get lost... :)

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