Real-Time 3D modeling collaboration.

[JMcWilliams]

Now that sounds pretty handy :D

[-Vormav-]

That's pretty cool. I don't even want to think of all of the potential problems that this could cause in the app and in any workflow, but it's definitely nice to see it at least being attempted.

[ivanisavich]

Hehe...."Hey man...can you make the arms/legs/torso/face/hair while I work on the eyelashes???"

[JeroenDStout]

Hehe...."Hey man...can you make the arms/legs/torso/face/hair while I work on the eyelashes???"
"I really want to apply meshsmooth to this character, but currently it is not shaped like the most awesome firedemon ever imagined and more like a box. Could you help me out?"

It'd be nice for 'real-life' learning, though, you could give lessons across the net and show people in real-time what they should do here and there :) imagine the teacher making something and telling the students: "Good, now make your own, here are your cubes."

[Apollux]

That's pretty cool. I don't even want to think of all of the potential problems that this could cause in the app and in any workflow, but it's definitely nice to see it at least being attempted.

It isn't as experimental as it sounds. The guys behind VERSE has been working on it for years now. Verse itself is on version 2.0 already (meaning a whole 0.x and 1.0 experience to polish it up). More details about the VERSE protocol at http://verse.blender.org/ and http://www.uni-verse.org/

Blender isn't the first application to adopt the VERSE protocol, there were many others before it, but Blender is the first "full featured" 3D app to use it. (Noticed the quotation marks? That's because I don't intend to start a discussion about Blender's feature set vs. X app's feature set :) )

BTW, I did some internet digging, and seems like the GIMP plugin is already available at http://users.pandora.be/blendix/verse/ and some real use examples can be seen at http://purple.blender.org/cms/Examples.638.0.html

[percydaman]

modeller A: thats my pixel!

modeller B: No, its MINE!

*push and pull contest ensues...

[JMcWilliams]

modeller A: thats my pixel!

modeller B: No, its MINE!

*push and pull contest ensues...

haha, wouldn't it be cool if the other persons view is represented like a camera in 3d space, so you could see where he is looking.. perhaps 'check out' regions of the mesh and then check them in when finished. Also a 'free for all' option as well of course. ;)

(if thats exactly how it works already then forget what I said)

[Apollux]

It is kind of a "Free for all" way of working.

It works like this:


You are working on some scene and decide that you would like some collaboration on any particular object(s) already present on your scene.
So conect to a Verse server (running locally or over the internet) and you tell to your 3D application to publish your object on the Verse server.
Everybody else who is connected on the same Verse server can see now a new subscription option.. now it is up to them to decide if they want to subscribe to that new object or ignore it.
As soon as somebody subscribes to the object you published, any changes that person makes to the object are shown in real time on your application, even while you are modifing the object (yes, it can lead to push and pull vertex contests).
At any time you can choose to disconnect from the Verse server and keep working on the object as a usual local object.

According to the Verse FAQ, subscribed objects could be anything, from a mesh to an image... so you could be giving the final touches to your model while the texture artist is trying and modifying texture maps on your model.

The officially released Blender version is an alpha preview for the upcomming Blender 2.40, and it only allows for Meshes to be subscribed. By the time the final 2.40 is released it should allow all types of objects to be subscribed. Even been an alpha release, it is quite stable, just spent almost an hour playing with Verse over a LAN and all the time the operations seemed to happen in real time and without glishes.

[Nichod]

Really I think this is the future. Imagine the increase in workflow. A modeler creates a character's head...begins working on torso. And at the same time texturing begins on the head. Next modeling is completed. The animator begins to animate. Mid-animation the texturing is completed and added. A belt is modeled on the character and updated in realtime. If its done correctly and smoothly this could be very useful. But things like UV mapping, weight mapping, etc would have to blend in smoothly when the model is updated. I can see a lot of problems with it, along with a lot of potential.

[PhantomDesign]

Models take a long time to make, at least quality models do. You'd be better off investing in some other asset management software IMO. I applaud their efforts, but I think they're misdirected.

[-Vormav-]

Models take a long time to make, at least quality models do. You'd be better off investing in some other asset management software IMO. I applaud their efforts, but I think they're misdirected.
True. But at the very least, this could have some potential for training.

[DanSilverman]

There is another freeware way of doing this without plugins and all applications are supported by the way this works. It is called VNC (http://www.realvnc.com/).

RealVNC allows you to set up a server (or another person) and then the two computers can be linked together. Whatever is on your computer shows up on the other computer. They do not need to have the software installed (i.e. MAX) in order to see your version of MAX running. What you do on your computer shows up on the other and the other person can also move the mouse cursor on your computer and use the application as well.

For example, I know very little about rigging and animation, but my partner is the expert in this area. He lives in California and I am in Israel. We set up VNC not too long ago and I fired up MAX and loaded a model. He could see my entire desktop on his computer. I sat back and watched him build a rig on MY computer in my version of MAX. At a certain point I asked if I could take over and do some of the rigging. Now he was watching me do it and advising me. We were using Skype to talk while we visually worked through VNC.

[Nichod]

Looks nice as well. Though the big difference is that Verse is completely free (and open source) and VNC isn't. Also, most would op for the commercial version of VNC since it seems to have the required security features.

Plus VNC looks a bit different. VNC is complete desktop control. While Verse is realtime interaction of modelers, texturing etc.

Unfortunately because of the stigmata that everyone seems to have of the horror that is Blender :rolleyes: , Verse probally isn't going to immediately get the attention it deserves. Though I don't think Blender is taken as seriously as it should either. But thats another thread all together. Granted I rarely use Blender beyond experimenting with its new tools. That said, I do think Verse has some potential. I think people should at least try verse in a work situation before dismissing it.

[Apollux]

Deskto p sharing (ala VNC) has been a freeware reallity since ... well, since forever!!

It is one of the main concepts behind UNIX/LINUX´s X11 architecture and the capability has been shipping with Windows at least since Windows 3.11 (There even is a whole category of malware to clasify the possible exploits for this on Windows, anybody remember the NetBus troyan?). Mac OSX, been a specially revamped UNIX, also have desktop sharing capability... in other words, pretty much every single computer in use today can do that and you don´t need to buy any expensive tool.

But Verse is very different from virtual desktop sharing:

First, it isn´t limited to two persons... as long as your network can handle it, the entire CGTalk userbase could be coollaborating on a single proyect (wishfull thinking, no network is that strong).

Second, all parties involved keep working at the same time. With VNC-like programs, you have to let go your console for others to take over..., so there is no real increase in productivity. In Unix at least you can activate it per application, but the one person at a time limit remains.

Third, on your example both you and your friend where working on the same app (MAX), but with Verse you could be working with Max and your friend could be working with Maya and the data flow would be seamless (funny example, considering the recent Auto-Alias developments). Likewise, a second friend could be working with Photoshop and it´s data would be seamlessly integrated on both Max and Maya.

[paintbox]

This is cool in ways I have yet to imagine. Thanks for sharing...

[Layer01]

wow that is really VERY cool, i'm dying to try it out now. Only i cant find the so called max/maya plugins? (or photoshop for that matter)
are they on the uni-verse site? i click the downloads button and all i get is a small popup with a black screen :shrug:
And is uni-verse trying to make a oneplugin fits all type thing, or are they making lots of little plugins for different apps?....*wishes for XSI*

[Schwinnz]

Do you see what people are working on real-time or they have to commit to the server first ?

[erilaz]

It's about freakin' time! openCanvas for 3d! :)

Speed-modelling comps will go into overdrive with this baby.

[Apollux]

Do you see what people are working on real-time or they have to commit to the server first ?

You see it on real time. It is kind of freaky, like if you got a gost in the shell.

Layer01, it is one plug for each app. So far I have tested the plugs for Blender and for The Gimp... I believe that the plugs for the others apps aren´t finished yet. But who knows, the Gimp plug isn´t finished yet and it already works like it should :shrug:

BTW, Here on the C4D forum, some users are already suggesting to write an open source Cinema-Verse plugin.

[pymodo]

it can't be compared to vnc at all.

i think the coolest thing so far is the gimp (and the upcoming? photoshop) plugin. it makes a much nicer texturing workflow. while you paint in gimp the texture updates in real time in blender. that's very nice. :) i hate to continuously export/import images to get feedback.

and it's cool that verse is application independent. you can work on the same data in real time with different 3d applications. i hope it gets more widespread!

[brkn]

Just a bit of clarification and info: Ji?í Hnídek, the coder of the blender-verse integration, gave a talk at the Blender Conference in Amsterdam on the weekend. You can see some info about the talk here (http://www.blender.org/cms/Jiri_Hnidek.692.0.html) and download the PDF (http://download.blender.org/documentation/bc2005/verse-blender_presentation.pdf) of the presentation. Hopefully the video of the presentation will be available before too long.

It's all in realtime, and it's cross platform in many ways. The Windows, Mac, Linux versions of blender can all connect to the same server nicely, and there is also a Maya plugin in development (its developer was also at the Blender Conference).

It's not certain whether this will be in Blender 2.40 or not. There are still a few problems that need to be solved. As far as I know, the verse protocol only supports Meshes/Subdivision surfaces at this time, so if this is the case, you won't be seeing any new object types soon.

Not only is it interesting for working with but it's also nice as a method of offering i/o between 3d apps. Very exciting!

[KayosIII]

I am definately going to have to try the gimp/blender verse thing - just what the doctor ordered

[J-Smith]

I gotta say, that does sound pretty killer. I got a friend in India who's always asking me for modeling advice, and it would be nice to just run this plug, and be able to SHOW him what he needs to know. Nothing would get lost in translation, I wouldn't have to re-word what I'm trying to say... It would make the whole thing much easier.

I haven't checked the site yet, but is there any word on a ZBrush version of the plugin?

[Schwinnz]

I tried it yesterday. It was really nice, but I experienced a lot of crashes, and quite sadly there is no edge support so all you see is floating edges around when extruding vertices.

It has some cool potential.

[Apollux]

I tried it yesterday. It was really nice, but I experienced a lot of crashes, and quite sadly there is no edge support so all you see is floating edges around when extruding vertices.
I spent some more time testing it and I never experienced any crashes.. and that with the added factor that one of the clients was running on Windows XP and the others two on SuSe Linux.. not a single crash on any client, any floating edge neither.. but I guess that the whole reason why it's called an alpha built. I did find some non show-stoppers glishes and summited them to the developer in charge.

Try to see if you can replicate the circustances that leaded to the crashes, and then put it on this thread: http://www.blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6766 the more bugs we get squashed now the less bugs will find it 's way into the final release.

I am definately going to have to try the gimp/blender verse thing - just what the doctor ordered
The Gimp-Verse plug seems to work ok for Gimp-to-Gimp comunication, and seems to work ok on the Gimp side for Gimp-to-Blender communication (Blender sees what Gimp is sending) but that' s pretty much what Blender can do right now with Gimp data, as the Image object in Blender hasn' t been "versed" yet (I' m not a developer, but' s that what it seems from here, and the person in charge of Blender' s Verse implementation hasn' t even hinted that it is fully working).

It's not certain whether this will be in Blender 2.40 or not. Please tell me that was a joke.

As far as I know, the verse protocol only supports Meshes/Subdivision surfaces at this time, so if this is the case, you won't be seeing any new object types soon.Well, I was reading some pages on the Purple project (another Verse client in development) and seems like the guy developing Purple found a way to squease/stream a new (more intelligent and with construction history) Mesh type trought Verse. Likewise, another guy already wrote a python chat client that communicates using the Verse protocol. The fact that there already is a Gimp plug means that Verse also supports bitmaps.

All that makes me believe that Verse' s practical frontiers are yet to be found.

[Schwinnz]

I spent some more time testing it and I never experienced any crashes.. and that with the added factor that one of the clients was running on Windows XP and the others two on SuSe Linux.. not a single crash on any client, any floating edge neither.. but I guess that the whole reason why it's called an alpha built. I did find some non show-stoppers glishes and summited them to the developer in charge.

I only tested working 2 at a time on the same mesh, that may be it.

[meta-jiri]

Hi,
I'm author of implementation of Verse protocol to Blender. I have to thanks for you positive feedback and I have to thanks to Apollux for his bug tracking and creating of this thread too. Good work! :-)

Keep in mind, that verse-blender is in early state of development (it should be stable, but it has some problems and you cannot share all data now) ... it is used for testing of concept, but it is very good, that people are interested in it.

If you will have any question, then post comment here or you can send me mail (you can find email at my weblog: http://jiri_hnidek.blogpspot.com)

Jiri

[Apollux]

For those interested on testing Verse in real world conditions, kidb from the www.blender.org forums has set up a public verse server running on http://verse.kidb.de (http://verse.kidb.de/) (use "verse.kidb.de" on the connect dialog).

Please do not expect that i keep running verse all the time. It is for testing purposes only.

[Trident_2K5]

Top secret, burn before reading.
Future plan for world dominance.
Stage 1: Make Verse support all the types of geometry, all types of 2D data.
Stage 2:Create set of Ultimate 3D Widgets.
Stage 3:All CG apps use Verse as a backend and U3W for UI. Since all newcomers should suport Verse/U3W... We Are Open Source. Resistance is futile. You will be asimilated.

:)

[Apoclypse]

Actually Project purple could become the next all powerful 3d app, The we won't have to worry about Mayax and friends (autodesk) coming in to steal our software right from under us. Ther has been rumors that the next blender will be based off of this (3.0)

[Apollux]

Ther has been rumors that the next blender will be based off of this (3.0)LOL :D
I was the one that started that rummor. As I said there, that is just wishfull thinking based on some "reiterative coincidences".

[JA-forreal]

When Verse really kicks in it will be an amazing force for 3d. But it's real power will be revealed as more applications get online.

[veeraa]

"I really want to apply meshsmooth to this character, but currently it is not shaped like the most awesome firedemon ever imagined and more like a box. Could you help me out?"

It'd be nice for 'real-life' learning, though, you could give lessons across the net and show people in real-time what they should do here and there :) imagine the teacher making something and telling the students: "Good, now make your own, here are your cubes."


I think it has been misunderstood. I don't think this is a collaborative/revision control mechanism.I think its just for data exchange. ANyway let's see. If the most popular(namely Maya,Sofftimage,3dsmax,Houdini,Lightwave & Cinema) come out with support for verse, it is going to be used mostly for print work as photoshop and gimp support it already.

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