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View Full Version : Gave up Nurbs trying meshing modeling, advice ? (long text)

Hires
11-13-2002, 03:16 PM
Hi all do u remember me? i was the fool that was tryng to model in max5 by nurbs :p
I encoutered some difficulties (well maybe more tha "some") closing up the surfaces and when eventually i collapsed nurbs in meshes i obtained a very chaotic triangle distribution, that is not good.
Then i started using edit mesh and extruding,beveling faces to model , but i could not obtain the simply polys distribution that i can admire in the models in the CG callenge section ( i saw the amazing The Making of the Wasteman ( http://www.cgchallenge.com/article.php?article_id=5 ) in the Wasteman there isn't a poly that is in excess (i've tried to delete not necessary polys in my model but i obtained a chaotic result) my question is : is there a modeling method that is best for mesh modeling? (i saw in tutorials ( http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/ ) a way of modeling that is not intuitive for me , i ll explain: when i want to do a curved surface in nurbs system , symply i draw the basic curves and the pc do the rest, when im modeling meshes instead i know the end result only by applying a mesh-smooth that end in random result (i can't understand the way it decide the curve degree, and beside that curve degree is not controllable by user), to better explain see hte reptile head in ( http://maxrovat.sns.hu/subdiv/ ) the rough model that perimeter the will-be-reptile when the eye is being deleted and replaced with other polys IS completely different from the real-end-reptile when the bone is applied, i cant understand how can a modeler do the jump between a model that don't resemble the end resul and the end result. (sorry my english is bad).
And last but not least when u finally have a model done in nurbs modeling is quite simple modifying it ( u need onlto to move a few points/vertec) in mesh modeling u (I) end with many more vertex that can be moved except moving 1 at time a pain if u must do extended modification.

mmm ok i'm really newbie in modeling but is there something i missed in max5 tools that allow me to work intuitively and whitout chaotic ending result ? (again i'm thinking to Wasteman)....

sorry for long text but i'm trying to explain a thing i really dont understand...

thanks in advance
nuno
11-14-2002, 04:18 PM
Hey

To make the subD modeling "practical" you need to activate the display of the final result (smooth). This will allow you to work on the low poly and at the same time see the final result. So there is no real jump since you see your working surface and the final one at the same time AND in real time.

For the modification I agree that moving nurbs control points is faster but at the same time you can simply activate the soft selection (editmesh or editpoly) to make it easier while working with poly's.

Remember that nurbs also have drawbacks (joints, mixing hard and soft parts...). My feeling is that generally the industry is using more and more subD...there is probably a good reason for that :cool:
Hires
11-15-2002, 08:20 AM
Ops thanks for the advice using meshsmooth to see the end result really help me :bounce:

i'm still usure about using meshes ,poly or patch modeling? i'm using now mesh to model a humanoid figure i tryes poly but saw that the poly model seems to slow because of that really slow poly tools (extrude bevel outline,insert) that doesn't have fast up-down arrow such mesh tools to modify the faces (why discreet don't used the well known up/down arrow that was also in mas4 for mesh ? duh )... if i must model a humanoid what model tools must i use (mesh,poly or path) ? can someone tell me his esperiece?

thanks in advance
3rd Dimentia
11-15-2002, 10:28 AM
I used to use patches alot more to model stuff, but nowadays I use editable poly with meshsmooth. There are a couple of things missing from editable poly that were in editable mesh. Flipping normals for instance. Is it just me or is this totally missing from editable poly? Anyone? Anyone? I even tried sub-selecting the polys I wanted to flip and applying a normal modifier, but it didn't seem to work. This may be different in 5 though. (we're still on 4)

When I first suggested patches to you after your other post, I figured it was sort of close to NURBS so it might be an easier transition for you. But I'd seriously suggest getting familiar with Editable poly with meshsmooth. Meshtools are a very useful addition to the existing toolset . Someone on this forum mentioned that you get the newest version of them on one of the disks that comes with max 5. And CSpoly tools are really really good too. If they don't come with max5, then you can get them from script spot.

Can someone clarify how they all work in 5? Are some of them already incorporated in the editable poly?

I think once you get over the initial shock of having to work a differently, you'll find that you'll wonder why you ever tried using NURBS at all. Especially in max.
Hires
11-17-2002, 01:12 PM
thanks for the advice :) i'll start experimenting......
Abraham
11-17-2002, 05:04 PM
3rd Dimentia, happily in max 5 you can now flip the normal of a poly. A lot of the functionality of meshtool have been incorporated in Max too (with some new tools too) and a recompil of the meshtools (well, the ones not integrated at least) is avaiable on the cd aswell :) Sorry for my English :) Ab
kary
11-17-2002, 08:51 PM
In max, to do humanoids, I have to say do it with the poly tools. The workflow is artist friendly with them, and it's one of the core strengths of the program.

http://www.3dluvr.com/ly/meshtools1.avi
** for roughing out the form
http://www.3dluvr.com/ic-art/html/images/sds_modelling.avi
** for details

Also look up vids by Matt Clark, ambient whisper etc etc. All well worth the watch and you'll see some the workflow in action.

http://www.secondreality.ch/tutorials/modelling/head1.html
Is a illustrated text tutorial that is great to show you where to cut, and some of the thought process behind edge flows.



BTW: If you want to be able to get a fast extrusion, and then move/rotate/scale into position -- as you would with the edit mesh/max4 right click on extrude.

macroScript smEXT
category:"Well Named Category"
toolTip:"Small-Extrude"

(
$.faceExtrudeHeight = .25
$.EditablePoly.buttonOp #extrude
)

Copy/paste that into notepad, save as a .mcr, put it into the UI directory and map it to a hotkey.
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