Does Maya have splines or something similar?

[ME3D]

I believe most of the functions your looking for from max can be either redirected through nurbs in maya ie(cv curves) or another direction in the building process will cover what you need. I looked for the same, but I dont believe it works the same.........
So more to the point..... nothing like that with out a script probably
If youd like,
post what your purpose for needing this and generally someone may be able to direct you to the Maya method in which to create it.
Good luck.

[Relic9]

ME3D is right, who needs splines when you have nurbs.
I can understand you are attached to max's surface tools/spline tools, but Maya's nurbs exceed these tools by far.(IMHO)
You can achieve smooth curves or sharp curves with the Nurbs Editing Tool under the dropdown menu called:Edit Curves.
Press F1 or use Maya's great "help search" and read all about it.
I know it's hard when switching from max to Maya, i had to do that too, but the trick is to persist and you will be rewarded.
Great new tools will be within your reach.
Good luck.

[skyPhyr]

well NURBs stands for Non-Uniform Rational B-Splines so I guess it already has splines in that sense. As far as getting control out of editing them you can do that as you draw your object by drawing either liner or cubic EP curves.. hold down c with the cursor over the curve you want to continue from then left-click and drag your mouse to the end of the curve. The c makes the point constrain itself to the curve. Then just select both curves and
edit curves->attach curves

make sure you choose to keep multiple knots :-)

If you are just after more control editing created curves I recall reading about a plugin that provides a beizer style interface for editing curves - a la illustrator. Though I can't remember where - I think highend3d.com

hope this helps,

skyPhyr.

[rsalonen]

Thanks for the help everyone
But lets say I want to have a pattern, with both soft and hard edges (I'm gonna make a sword with allot of patterns without any texturing, just modeling).
In 3dsmax I could make the pattern with splines and then extrude it and add it to the sword.
How would I do that in maya?

[ME3D]

Draw what you like with the curves, cap them off ( or "Fill")
Then extrude the sides.
Another method for those more confortable with polys is to draw with the curves> fill them> .......then convert the nurbs to polys in the modify panel.

Myself I recommend the conversion to subd's. I came from max as well, origionally, and well........ you havent seen anything like subd's. I use them for nearly everything.

[beatoperator]

the only solution I see is a 'longer' method of first making curves in Illustrator, and then importing them in Maya... offcourse, you'll need to know from the start what u want to make...

I was a MAX user too, lack of splines was my first frustration :)
NURBS are good, but making sharp corner edges is 'mission impossible'... :)

[Lyr]

Sharp corners with nurbs are easy. Just make sure the curve is set on linear not cubic.

[beatoperator]

yep, I know that... I thought about combining both 'corner' and 'bezier' edges with easy manipulation...

[rsalonen]

Okay, this doesn't sound good, I thought Maya was the ultimate 3d program, but without combining sharp and soft corners you are very limited.

Maybe it works to do something in Illustrator, but that shouldn't be necesary for a powerful program like this.
Damn it's gotta be a way...

[beatoperator]

maybe combining few different curves with sharp and beziers corners...
u know how recitangle is maded? with 4 nurbs lines...
however, I think that control u have on that kinda lines is lame.

I think that people from AW thought that 'ultimate professionals' make their curves with Illustrator or CorelDraw... :-)

[ME3D]

Hope you dont mind a tip...it may sound yoda ish, but coming from max myself I still think realizing this was the turning point in my 3d skills thus far.
First the quote:

"Forget what you know, or think you know."

Learn to build a new way. Perhaps you will see its really alot faster bulding in a solid sub-d, or a "real polygon object that has the ability to smooth without increasing the iterations on the surface.
Example: The ending city shot in Dungeons and Dragons was 16 million polygons. Then I built a bigger city rencently with only 60 thousand polys. It did jump to 78 when I added hand rails though.................
:::::::Food for thought grass hopper:::::::::

[mestela]

Someone has written a plugin that edits nurbs curves as bezier splines. The interface takes a bit of getting used to, but after that it's very cool. For some shapes, having bezier tools is much more intuitive than nurbs.

http://www.eztools3d.com/

-matt

[Relic9]

I already explained how to combine smooth angles and sharp angles in a nurbs curve.
Just use the nurbs editing tool, you can find it under the "Edit Curves" dropdown menu.
You can also snap linear curves(hard corners) with cubic curves.(smooth corners)
Just look up the terms linear, cubic, Nurbs Editing Tool and Snap in Help>search.
Like i said maya provides the best help and search with it's package.

[rsalonen]

ME3D: Yes, I have also realizied that I have to re-think allot in Maya. Everything I want to do CAN be done, but it's just a different way to do it. I'm going to buy the book Maya 4 Fundamentals, and I heard it got this "coming from max chapter" or something similar...it could be good.

David Zachar: Thanks for the tip on that tool, I've tried it out abit, but I haven't figured out how it works yet.

[RealLifeProduct]

Place 1 CV where you want the corner then hold down C and place two more CV on top of the first CV then continue with your curve.

[sekopasa]

Try to exturede a tube that way, it doesn't work, geometry becomes self colliding. and i coulndnt find a way to do that in right way.:shrug:

[jbo]

don't put them right on top of each other, put them real close though. it won't be totally sharp, but will look sharp. nothing in real life is totally sharp anyway, and having totally hard edges is the quickest way to make your model look fake.

[Kabab]

Maya curves are the best! They are very similar to the curves in StudioTools which is used to design car bodies etc...

You just need to understand how to use them i had the same problem as you when i came to Maya from 3dsmax..

Just remember objects don't need to be made from 1 continues curve you can mix and match and then simply group object to act as one.

Perhaps you could post a screenshoot of the shape of the object you are after?

[5parts]

Just a side note. If you do your corners using 3 cv on top of each other (or very close 2gether) instead of using 1 dregree curves, you`re needlessly adding data to your scene, which can really bit you in the @ss when comes rendering time..

[Emil3d]

Try to exturede a tube that way, it doesn't work, geometry becomes self colliding. and i coulndnt find a way to do that in right way.:shrug:I think the blame should be directed to the bugs, weaknesses and limitations of the extrude command, not the NURBS curves and surfaces - they work problem free with most of the other operations. I created the shape in the attached image bellow by extruding a curve created with 3 clicks on the sharp corners. However I manage to do this because I’m familiar with the bugs and weaknesses of the extrude command and can apply workarounds for each problematic curve. Let me know if this is your problem.

[jbo]

Just a side note. If you do your corners using 3 cv on top of each other (or very close 2gether) instead of using 1 dregree curves, you`re needlessly adding data to your scene, which can really bit you in the @ss when comes rendering time..

this is really not true. well perhaps it's true if you are literally adding them right on top of each other, but 3 very close together will make an edge that's hard, but still slightly round. this is the KEY to hard surface modeling. this kind of edge will look sharp, but still pick up a highlight and look real. just take a look at something with a nice hard 90 degree edge. chances are you can see one value for one side, one for the other, and another very distict value where they meet. the kind of edge you describe will be an instant change from one value to another and look computer generated. I would gladly sacrifice a bit of render time for something that looks a whole lot better. situations where you can get away with 1 degree do exist, but they are rare.

[XanderFX]

why don't you just draw your curves and use the bevel plus tool?

[Free4]

Max's surface tools are very powerful and quick to use to create a multiude of complex shapes.
Mayas nurbs seem some what lame in comparision or over complex for actual setting up however powerfull once you have created what you need, I have no patience these days I'd rather buildin max it works more like my mind works. THats logic not experience.

However what ever happend to http://www.eztools3d.com/

and has their scripts or plugin code been made available so it could be updated to current versions of Maya...

Anyone?

[yenvalmar]

start a new curve, snapping the point to the end point of the last curve. a lot of operations dont really care if its all one continuous curve or not.. i agree it would be nice to get bezier handles, especially since the animation F curves have them, why not the curves in the 3d space too..

[XFuncCaRteR]

I can't believe this program. Not having bezier corners reduces the options at hand. If they have put in what think is a better way, fine, but it is retarded to try to reinvent the wheel like this and remove flexibility and options. It's just stupid. If they want nurb curves, nothing is stopping you from using them - however they shouldn't force them on us. I'm trying to model something for level design, and I need to keep polycounts down.

[Gräck]

I can't believe this program. Not having bezier corners reduces the options at hand. If they have put in what think is a better way, fine, but it is retarded to try to reinvent the wheel like this and remove flexibility and options. It's just stupid. If they want nurb curves, nothing is stopping you from using them - however they shouldn't force them on us. I'm trying to model something for level design, and I need to keep polycounts down.
Well that's why Maya is not so popular in game development like Max. If you want to do low poly stuff with quick and logical control about your smoothing groups for example or you want to build objects based on splines, use snapping, align and spacing tools for level design, use preserve uv's to edit geometry without destroying your uv's, then Maya might not be the right choice for you. We are also using Maya as the main 3d tool for level design (!) and having a lot problems with it. That goes from lack of export features to unhandy smoothing group assignments and texture baking (lightmap creation in Maya seems to be horrible without Anti-Aliasing, proper Automatic Mapping and very long rendering time).

[TapioKa]

Generally speaking, Maya is a powerful tool, but modeling with curves should not have to be a complicated process. Curves are the foundation of the way I've been modelling for a long time. Nurbs are great, but bezier splines are even better. Right click and it's done, not clicking three times to make a filleted corner then having to tweak isoparms because they didn't turn exactly right. Multiply that by the numerous operations one does in a day.

I have to disagree with people about rethinking your approach when modelling in Maya. A tool should remain that, the end goal is to model what you want quickly and intuitively, while focusing on what is being created. If you were to compare click to click from curve to surface something as simple as a tube, that's what matters to me.

Like anything, this should be an easy process to get the job done quickly so you can focus on the next thing you want to make.

My 2 cents on the matter.

[sp0rk3d]

wow so many nurbs haters... haha
i wil state for the record that i think that bezier curves are very annoying to work with... i feel like too many people need this strange level of control that they like with bezier curves... like they have to get the curve drawn exactly right on the first try... i almost never attempt to get an acurate curve on my first go.. just put the cvs in the scene then move them after i feel this workflow is much easier and faster than working with bezier curves but i guess everyone has their own style and preffs...

tips with nurbs:
1) place points loosly and quickly then line them up afterwards
2) making corners place 3 cvs close together or 2 cvs for a rounded corner look
3) lofting is fun but birailing is better
4) for the cheese curve to 3d extrude text use the "bevel plus tool"

but give them a try before you say that you need bezier

[GatorNic]

Try to exturede a tube that way, it doesn't work, geometry becomes self colliding. and i coulndnt find a way to do that in right way.:shrug:

Which method are you talking about?

Making Tubes are easy, before you extrude along the curve you just have to use Rebuild Curve on the curve to support the geometry. If you make a long dramaticly curving line with control points at only the corners the extrude will only have a few 'component pivots' to work with.

The extude settings should be Style:Path, Result Position:At Path, Pivot:Component, Orientation:Profile normal and then whatever settings you want to export to. If I am doing polys I tend to do Type:Quads, Tesselation:General and adjust the U and V divisions to how many I want.

[Free4]

Having spent now two years plus in Maya becoming a pretty decent scripter and working in games, I can confidently say that the nurbs tools and the speed in which they can be worked with in a production environment is one of the biggest downfalls of Maya to date.

If Autodesk want to make Maya more popular with the games production community they need to think about porting Max spline based tools across. For nex-gen console and PC games the abilities max has is second to none.

Talk of nurbs in maya being more than capable is true they are, if you are working on something that needs painful accuracy for mechanical production great, for a game environment work in a production environment they are completely unacceptable period.

To this end I take work to Max to work on detailed elements that require lots of lofting/ extrusions and curve extractions from world geo, if I have to and alternatively to Silo.

This should not have to be the case Autodesk need to step it up.

[DrYo]

The lack of Bezier splines in Maya is not really a problem for me, since I started using NURBS in Softimage 3D long before I ever got to 3D Studio DOS. NURBS is a different way of working, but it's actually a more powerful way. Maya's Curve Editing Tool totally kicks ass because you can edit at any arbitrary location along the curve, not just at control points.

My understanding of the weakness of Maya's tools is that there is nothing analogous to Max's Surface Modifier. In Maya, if you want to build a multi-patch surface, you have to create lots of little curves all touching end-to-end, as well as all of the crossing splines. This is a very complex network. Then you have to create individual patches using Square or Boundary. Then you have to Attach or Stitch them all together. This is a big time suck.

In Max, you create far fewer control curves, you don't need four individual curves for each patch. Just make a network of crossing splines, hit a button, and you're done. Much, much, much faster. And the tessellation of Bezier patches is way simpler and more predictable than the NURBS render tessellation rubbish.

However, if you look closely at a Max object modeled with the Surface Modifier, you will see some really ugly "bubble" artifacts. The interpolation of the Bezier patches is really inaccurate if there is a large degree of curvature in the source splines. NURBS is far better in this regard.

So Maya should really have an automated tool whereby one can create a simple network of crossing splines, hit a button, and generate NURBS patches. That would be the best of both worlds.

[kyleb2112]

I always hear about how great Maya curves are when you just get used to them, but I just don't buy it. Watch a guy who earns a living with Adobe Illustrator sometime to see how fast he gets the shapes he's looking for. I've seen plenty of Maya tutorials, but I've yet to see any of the Maya pros match that kind of speed even when they're creating flat shapes analogous to Illustrator art. The ability to create sharp corners by breaking tangents on the fly just buries stacking up 3 or more nurbs points to get a linear segment. The curve editing tool gives bezier style control, but only after you've built the curve in the first place. So why not just use Illustrator? Well I do, but there's always the decision on whether opening another new program and going through an export/import cycle is worth it.

[dagon1978]

I always hear about how great Maya curves are when you just get used to them, but I just don't buy it. Watch a guy who earns a living with Adobe Illustrator sometime to see how fast he gets the shapes he's looking for. I've seen plenty of Maya tutorials, but I've yet to see any of the Maya pros match that kind of speed even when they're creating flat shapes analogous to Illustrator art. The ability to create sharp corners by breaking tangents on the fly just buries stacking up 3 or more nurbs points to get a linear segment. The curve editing tool gives bezier style control, but only after you've built the curve in the first place. So why not just use Illustrator? Well I do, but there's always the decision on whether opening another new program and going through an export/import cycle is worth it.

to read carefully

Maya curves are the best! They are very similar to the curves in StudioTools which is used to design car bodies etc...

You just need to understand how to use them i had the same problem as you when i came to Maya from 3dsmax..

Just remember objects don't need to be made from 1 continues curve you can mix and match and then simply group object to act as one.

Perhaps you could post a screenshoot of the shape of the object you are after?

ciau

Mat

[CarlRiver]

Just a little thing about Maya's CV curves that might help you understand them better:
If you use 2 degree CV curves they act quite like Beziér curves in Max. In this case every CV acts as the tangent handle to the according EP. Of course this explains why you can't create harsh corners. To break a tangent you have to break the curve i.e. finish it and start creating another one at the end point of the first on.
So you might want to use 2 degree curves with the creation method EP curve instead of 3 degree curves in the beginning to get a better understanding for them. Also there is probably a way of creating a script that keeps the EP in position if you edit a CV to make them act even more like Beziér curves.

EDIT: Also I would suggest reading this Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bézier_curve) which explains exactly how these curves act. It also shows that Beziér curves and CV curves as we know them from Maya are actually the exact same thing.

-reinhold

[GrogMcGee]

I don't really mean to chime in here with vaguely useless information, but reading this thread left me needing to say this.

Maya was never built toward game development, in fact, when autodesk bought Alias there was hope/fear that Max and Maya would be melded into the Uber app. Never, happened.- something that in the end I'm glad of. Each of these programes is aimed at different areas of this fantastic industry. Maya seems aimed primarily at offline rendering, ie, film, tv, etc. Max has been the realtime (games) programme for ages. Maybe Max's splines are awesome but they're principle design modus operendi is for realtime rendering. Sure both of these power-tools can do unimaginably increadible things that look identical, one need only glance through these boards to see that, but the primary focus of these tools are not the same. I suppose what I'm saying in a round about way is if you looking at creating a low poly game models - why are you so intent on using Maya? Further why are you using NURBs - have you used the create polygon tool yet?

Anyways, I hope this isn't to off the wall or off topic or whatever.

Ciao

[vancliff]

36 people talking about sharp curves in maya seems a lot but you seems to forget how subd's work in maya you can convert polygonal objects to subd's and then use the cage around it to crease the borders to obtain sharp corners and soft one together.

[TapioKa]

Just a bit of history. People can correct if I'm wrong, but I think this has more to do with the history of the respective companies.

Before Maya was Power Animator and NURBS was it's primary strength. That's why I think Alias continued its mododology in Maya

Max was under Autodesk's control for alot longer and being primarily a CAD software company. I think that's why splines in Max are predominant. NURBS was introduced later as it was requested by users.

It just creates a different working style. Just like how some people model everything from a poly cube to start.

[Kabab]

Just a bit of history. People can correct if I'm wrong, but I think this has more to do with the history of the respective companies.

Before Maya was Power Animator and NURBS was it's primary strength. That's why I think Alias continued its mododology in Maya

Max was under Autodesk's control for alot longer and being primarily a CAD software company. I think that's why splines in Max are predominant. NURBS was introduced later as it was requested by users.

It just creates a different working style. Just like how some people model everything from a poly cube to start.
Not really Nurbs is the bread butter surface type for the cad industry...

Power Animator went on to be StudioTools which is the most widely used surfacing package in the Automotive industry for creation of concept and production (A Class) car surfaces.

Problem here is the lack of understanding and misconception of how Maya's curve tools work they are quiet simillar to StudioTools...

If anyone has specific workflow questions let me know.

[TapioKa]

Kabab, I agree that Studio Tools use NURBS, but I don't think AutoCad does.

I believe there is a big difference between Solids based CAD software vs. Architectural 2D style CAD software.

Does somebody know more about this?

[seandunderdale]

having learnt MAX at uni, and using Maya since I finished when I joined a studio, in my experience MAX's splines were a lot more useful for polygon modelling. Id use them all the time, its extrude along spline tools were better than Maya's, its ability to make splines renderable and have control over thickness and divisions is something Ive not yet seen in Maya, which is a MAJOR flaw in my eyes, since, as Ive mentioned Maya's extrude along curve is dodgy at best.

I do prefer Maya to MAX, but there are a few essential tools I do miss.

[Emil3d]

having learnt MAX .... its extrude along spline tools were better than Maya's, its ability to make splines renderable and have control over thickness and divisions is something Ive not yet seen in Maya, which is a MAJOR flaw in my eyes, since, as Ive mentioned Maya's extrude along curve is dodgy at best......
Have you tried applying Paint Effects to selected curves? it will give you huge amount of options including thikness, divisions, etc. In addition you can also make variable thikness (pressure) either with a stylus drawing over multiple objecdts or controling it with a graph for selected curve. Also you can make procedural shapes from simple things like balls along the curve to complex things like trees.

[DrYo]

Paint Effects are fantastic, but that method is overkill for such a simple task. With Max's renderable splines, you've got a no-muss-no-fuss solution to simple stuff like non-dynamic cords and rope.

Maya's design philosophy is to make the super complex stuff relatively easy. Max's philosophy is to put the most commonly needed tools right at your fingertips. So Maya falls down on the basics, whereas Max hits a wall when it comes to complexity.

[Kabab]

Paint Effects are fantastic, but that method is overkill for such a simple task. With Max's renderable splines, you've got a no-muss-no-fuss solution to simple stuff like non-dynamic cords and rope.

Maya's design philosophy is to make the super complex stuff relatively easy. Max's philosophy is to put the most commonly needed tools right at your fingertips. So Maya falls down on the basics, whereas Max hits a wall when it comes to complexity.
How is pressing attach brush to curve hard?

Kabab, I agree that Studio Tools use NURBS, but I don't think AutoCad does.

I believe there is a big difference between Solids based CAD software vs. Architectural 2D style CAD software.

Does somebody know more about this?
I should have been more clear when i refered to nurbs/cad i was talking more in the context mechanical 3d cad products, Inventor, Solidworks, Catia etc...

Most cad data representation is going to be parametric by nature....

[DrYo]

How is pressing attach brush to curve hard?

It's not hard, but it takes a little longer to dig around in the Attribute Editor, create a custom brush, convert to polygons etc. Setting Max's spline interpolation settings is just quicker and easier. Besides, using Paint Effects for such a simple job is like using a space shuttle to deliver the mail.

[Kabab]

It's not hard, but it takes a little longer to dig around in the Attribute Editor, create a custom brush, convert to polygons etc. Setting Max's spline interpolation settings is just quicker and easier. Besides, using Paint Effects for such a simple job is like using a space shuttle to deliver the mail.
Do it once and have you bascially made the mel script that you can reuse as much as you like with 1 click.

I know what you are saying but i personally like the flexibility more i think it out weighs the 30secs of 1 off overheads.

[bugo]

Well that's why Maya is not so popular in game development like Max. If you want to do low poly stuff with quick and logical control about your smoothing groups for example or you want to build objects based on splines, use snapping, align and spacing tools for level design, use preserve uv's to edit geometry without destroying your uv's, then Maya might not be the right choice for you. We are also using Maya as the main 3d tool for level design (!) and having a lot problems with it. That goes from lack of export features to unhandy smoothing group assignments and texture baking (lightmap creation in Maya seems to be horrible without Anti-Aliasing, proper Automatic Mapping and very long rendering time).

For sure YOU HAVE TO USE Turtle rendering, its way better than max baking for AO and Normal maps

[CGTalk Moderation]

This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.