JennaV2.2.2 - red bounding box only.

[jackb602]

I think that's the standard behavior for Jenna when it is not registered. Did you buy it or are you just running it in demo mode?

Jack

[nycL45]

Hey Jack,

According to the v2.1.1 manual, 'If the first item read "About Jenna" under the Jenna menu then Jenna is already registered.' When I go 9.5>Plugins>CaJenna, the first Jenna list item is "About". It's not exactly "About Jenna" but I figured it was registered.

When it still didn't work, I thought it might be a serial number issue with 2.2.2 so, I downloaded a new one yesterday and, like the 2.2 S/N, I get "Invalid Key". Maybe I'm running it in demo and didn't see the indicator. Also, I didn't see mention of demo mode in the manual. How do I undo the demo mode? I'll look on this end.

In the AM under Object Properties for Iterator, there is a button with a red star and "registration" which also opens "About". In the same spot, I also found that I can "Unregister" by clicking on the "About" button to the right of the red star/"registration". Do I want to do that?

This kind of a long post, SAT.

L.

[nycL45]

Jack, in case you check here, I solved it but do not quite understand why. In the preceding post, I noted finding a red star + "registration" in the AM when Iterator was open. Tonight, I clicked on that registration button and decided what the and entered the 2.2 S/N. I got "Valid Key :: Happy Jennasizing". Why did this work? Earlier, I had tried the 2.2 registration S/N via Plugins>CaJenna>About>Registration and it was a no go. Scratching head here.

[Rabbitroo]

Stupid question: Is Jenna even for sale anymore?

(I'm honestly confused at this point. :hmm: )

-K

[JoelOtron]

Dont thin it was for sale since being given away free with 3dworld magazine earlier this year.

[jackb602]

Jack, in case you check here, I solved it but do not quite understand why. In the preceding post, I noted finding a red star + "registration" in the AM when Iterator was open. Tonight, I clicked on that registration button and decided what the and entered the 2.2 S/N. I got "Valid Key :: Happy Jennasizing". Why did this work? Earlier, I had tried the 2.2 registration S/N via Plugins>CaJenna>About>Registration and it was a no go. Scratching head here.

That seems really strange. I'm definitely not an expert on Jenna, but I just remembered the issue about the bounding box from the PDF manual. I'm glad you got it working. Your best bet for Jenna support might be the links at cidertank.com. Unfortunately, Darf and CoreArsenal have more or less disappeared.

Jack

[nycL45]

cidertank.com buttons across the top results in 404. I did not send an email to the webmaster. I didn't find anything at CoreArsenal and CoreVideo, either. BTW, I have the pdf manual for 2.1.1, but I don't think there is a manual for 2.2. Clicking the "Docs" button always brought up that it is being upgraded. I upgraded 2.2 before 2.2.2 in the 3D World mag and didn't buy it. Ack.

I have Jenna for 9.5 and that's good... until... (everything is crossed).

[darf]

That seems really strange. I'm definitely not an expert on Jenna, but I just remembered the issue about the bounding box from the PDF manual. I'm glad you got it working. Your best bet for Jenna support might be the links at cidertank.com. Unfortunately, Darf and CoreArsenal have more or less disappeared.

Jack

Still around. Just chose to work with different applications. J2.24 has not been tested against 9.5 as we do not have it.

<edited out> inane

dave

[nycL45]

Darf, to ask questions, etc. should we go through the cidertank webmaster link?

The "everything is crossed", as in fingers, toes, eyes, et al, comment was my joining many here that would like Jenna to live on beyond C4D 9.x. Just a nod or wink will do.

[darf]

Darf, to ask questions, etc. should we go through the cidertank webmaster link?

The "everything is crossed", as in fingers, toes, eyes, et al, comment was my joining many here that would like Jenna to live on beyond C4D 9.x. Just a nod or wink will do.

That tank ran empty.

Regards,
David Farmer

[nycL45]

If "that tank" is empty, is there another tank?

[darf]

If "that tank" is empty, is there another tank?

LOL

Nope, moved to an engine that uses renewable resources. No tank required.

Back to that friction free travel...

darf

[nycL45]

Allow me to embellish a bit – you're decked out in fine teflon threads and sitting tall on your trusty steed, Maglev.

Okay...

[darf]

Allow me to embellish a bit – you're decked out in fine teflon threads and sitting tall on your trusty steed, Maglev.

Okay...


Levitation is the future!

darf

[Glyptic]

Hi, David,
Forgive my threadjacking, but did the effort to negotiate the sale of Jenna to some C4D users stall? I forget the thread but it was something about keeping Jenna alive for future releases of Cinema.
I recall a guy in NZ was offering to head that effort up.

I wish you all the best as I find Jenna a real jewel among plug ins. I'm very sorry Cinema has lost such a gifted plug in developer.

cheers,
larry

[darf]

Hi, David,
Forgive my threadjacking, but did the effort to negotiate the sale of Jenna to some C4D users stall? I forget the thread but it was something about keeping Jenna alive for future releases of Cinema.
I recall a guy in NZ was offering to head that effort up.

I wish you all the best as I find Jenna a real jewel among plug ins. I'm very sorry Cinema has lost such a gifted plug in developer.

cheers,
larry

Nothing ever came of it. We were interested in selling off all of the C4D efforts including JENNA, CPT, VIXOL, RESPONSE, etc... No real interest though ( those that contacted me were looking more for me to continue or a free crack at getting the source ). Alas, they reside in a purgatory I feel may be permanent...

[Glyptic]

David,

That's sad.
Jenna 2.2 runs well with R9.5, so I guess I'm good to go for a while.

If you're ever in DC, the beers are on me.

cheers,
larry

[chris_b]

dang...
Is it really that smooth a ride over there?

I was kinda dreaming that Maxon might offer something for the tools (i know... i know) – seing as how the whole material system to this day is grounded in your past efforts...
(Bhodi-Nut for the old-timers here)

[Chrissyboy]

I'm still putting my money on Maxon coming up with their own take on Jenna - the template to work from is there, the functionality just needs to be duplicated and added as a big loud new feature in R10. I imagine duplicating an existing plug in is infinitely easier than starting from scratch. After making it, of course, just everso slightly crapper (cf: MeshSurgery). This time of course it's even better, as there's no pesky developers to annoy.

:argh:

It's hugely a hugely frustrating situation though, especially as we're about to purchase more Cinema seats and I know that a key for Jenna will now never be forthcoming, while the code sits there quietly fizzing on a dusty hard drive someplace. The worst bit is that the thread currently sitting above this one in my list is a post asking how to make frickin' bicycle spokes!

:sad:

dang...
Is it really that smooth a ride over there?

I was kinda dreaming that Maxon might offer something for the tools (i know... i know) – seeing as how the whole material system to this day is grounded in your past efforts...
(Bhodi-Nut for the old-timers here)

[darf]

I'm still putting my money on Maxon coming up with their own take on Jenna - the template to work from is there, the functionality just needs to be duplicated and added as a big loud new feature in R10. I imagine duplicating an existing plug in is infinitely easier than starting from scratch. After making it, of course, just everso slightly crapper (cf: MeshSurgery). This time of course it's even better, as there's no pesky developers to annoy.
:sad:

From what I have heard and the fact Maxon decided to fix bugs in the SDK that was holding the JENNA type of tools back I would speculate yes ( fixing things three years after the fact. gee thanks ). We did offer them J2, J3 completed technologies, CPT v1.1, and VIXOL for alot less than they were worth so users could continue to benefit. Their offer did not cover legal expenses. They must really have something spectacular coming!

darf

[JoelOtron]

I'm still putting my money on Maxon coming up with their own take on Jenna -

But then it would be renamed Object Duplication Tool, or Machiatto or something...

;)

[Accipiter]

Nothing ever came of it. We were interested in selling off all of the C4D efforts including JENNA, CPT, VIXOL, RESPONSE, etc... No real interest though ( those that contacted me were looking more for me to continue or a free crack at getting the source ). Alas, they reside in a purgatory I feel may be permanent...

Man, I'm sorry to hear that - #$%*@ vultures! I can't believe that Maxon's not all over this :banghead: - if I hadn't seen your plugs on the bhodiNUT site I would've probably bought Lightwave instead of Cinema... :argh: (sorry - it was long ago)

Dave, all the best to ya in the future. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Looks like I'll keep 9.5 around for a loooong time.

cheers,
Marc Oliver

[Accipiter]

From what I have heard and the fact Maxon decided to fix bugs in the SDK that was holding the JENNA type of tools back I would speculate yes ( fixing things three years after the fact. gee thanks ). We did offer them J2, J3 completed technologies, CPT v1.1, and VIXOL for alot less than they were worth so users could continue to benefit. Their offer did not cover legal expenses. They must really have something spectacular coming!

darf

:eek: :argh: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: ....in that order - sigh

cheers,
Marc Oliver

[Zendorf]

Damn, that is really sad to hear that Maxon showed no interest in these plugins! I was particularly hanging out for Response, as I can't imagine a tool like that is high on Maxon's agenda :sad:

[williamsburroughs]

Jenna makes my life easier and easier with the work I do. Thanks for a great set of tools darf!

You were responsible for getting C4D on the mograph map in my opinion. You've allowed us to do crazy and whacky things early on, and this helped drive C4D into the mograph tool it is.

I think without you, C4D would have just been another interesting app in the vain of EI or RealSoft. You gave it some spice that still remains strong to this day.

Thanks for all your past efforts, and I for one will miss your genius in the plug-in drop downs. :(

Good thing it works fine in 9.5. ;)

BTW:
Let us know when you release the tools for Maya...i'd be interested in seeing what you create.

[govinda]

It's about time to come to grips with this. To my way of thinking, having Jenna forces me to live in the eternal Present, like the Eternally Meditating Ninth Patriarch of L'xumbich'thia. The future may come, but I will stay where I am on my Gridarray-constructed seat until the Nickl deforms my face with age. Around version 11.207, when all signs of darf's works are faded, nonfunctional, dried up and blowing away like the scales of the Ioo'mama lizard in molt, and new users look blankly at you when the name 'Bhodinut' passes your lips, I'll still have v9.1 cued up and ready to rumble whenever I need to build a cute little picket fence.

Here I sit, in this Present.

;)

[chris_b]

:sad: oh man... that just kills. We probably could have raised the dough ourselves!

These tools were a gift from god for mograph artists. Truly...

[Duffdaddy]

Nothing ever came of it. We were interested in selling off all of the C4D efforts including JENNA, CPT, VIXOL, RESPONSE, etc... No real interest though ( those that contacted me were looking more for me to continue or a free crack at getting the source ). Alas, they reside in a purgatory I feel may be permanent...

I was that New Zealand guy and I'm still waiting to hear back from you David - you said you'd probably auction off the source on eBay and I was waiting to hear when that would be. From the sounds of it, you had other intentions for the source code - which is all good - really just wanted to see Jenna etc. find a happy home.
Never mind about Maxon.

[moka.studio]

One way or another, C4d sorely needs some serious duplication/iteration tools, and if Maxon it is developing its own toolset, then I hope this will live up to my high expecations, after having used Jenna for such a long time!.

Really too bad about your toolset Darf, especially when you mention Jenna3 ( guess we will never know what might have been...).

[Fre]

http://www.maxon.net/pages/support/suggestions_e.html

Maybe if we flood the Maxon suggestion form with jenna requests ... :shrug:

[darf]

I was that New Zealand guy and I'm still waiting to hear back from you David - you said you'd probably auction off the source on eBay and I was waiting to hear when that would be. From the sounds of it, you had other intentions for the source code - which is all good - really just wanted to see Jenna etc. find a happy home.
Never mind about Maxon.

I read your emails. Thought it was a dead issue after I sent the last email. I will see where that email is and resend.

darf

[Chrissyboy]

http://www.maxon.net/pages/support/suggestions_e.html

Maybe if we flood the Maxon suggestion form with jenna requests ... :shrug:

I didn't even know about this page - thanks for the link, I've added my voice.

C

[Tiziano]

Suggestion sent :thumbsup:

[acmepixel]

Me too. Keep it up folks.

[alawrence]

So how much do money do you want Darf?

No seriously. We would all like to know. As you can see you and your work are held in great esteem here. We hate to lose Jenna and the wonderful things it makes possible.

Give us a ball park figure that would tempt you to part with Jenna.

If Maxon are too stupid to buy your great plug ins why not raise some cash here while Jenna is still compatible with the C4d software.

What about a major donation to a charity of your choosing (beer fund included of course)

How much is Jenna worth to you.

Please reply Darf.

We Love you.

[nycL45]

:thumbsup:

[Simon Wicker]

If Maxon are too stupid to buy your great plug ins why not raise some cash here while Jenna is still compatible with the C4d software.

I'm not quite sure where everyone gets off on trashing Maxon without any idea of what may or may not have happened between them and Darf but it shows a huge disrespect for them.

I for one can think of several very good reasons why Maxon didn't purchase Jenna, the main one being that with the costs involved with purchasing and incorporating someone elses code they could provide tools built into the core quicker and better by doing it themselves.

I think people are forgetting here just who dumped who.

cheers, simon w.

[moka.studio]

I'm not quite sure where everyone gets off on trashing Maxon without any idea of what may or may not have happened between them and Darf but it shows a huge disrespect for them.

I for one can think of several very good reasons why Maxon didn't purchase Jenna, the main one being that with the costs involved with purchasing and incorporating someone elses code they could provide tools built into the core quicker and better by doing it themselves.

I think people are forgetting here just who dumped who.

cheers, simon w.

I would agree with Simon, it is too easy to place the blame without knowing the facts-
Could be that they are developing their own tools as well..
In any case, it is really too bad that things turned out this way for Darf, as he produced some fantastic tools, but yes people should not rush to place the blame in one party-

[nycL45]

Allow me to offer a clarification....again. Egads! My "Ditto!", #37 above, is only for having sent Maxon a suggestion to include features like those in Jenna in the earliest future version. That is all I meant and intended. Nothing more. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Folks, that is me, no slamming, no flaming.

Edit: I will, however, continue to question when/where it is appropriate. Again, no slamming, no flaming.

[moka.studio]

Allow me to offer a clarification....again. Egads! My "Ditto!", #37 above, is only for having sent Maxon a suggestion to include features like those in Jenna in the next earliest version. That is all I meant and intended. Nothing more. People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Folks, that is me, no slamming, no flaming.

I don't think this was meant towards you,-
( i understood your post to be refering to sending a suggestion)
rather at some other posts,
jp

[nycL45]

Thanks, moka-j. When I saw Simon's post, it gave me that sinking feeling. I feel better. :thumbsup:

[Accipiter]

I'm not quite sure where everyone gets off on trashing Maxon without any idea of what may or may not have happened between them and Darf but it shows a huge disrespect for them.

I for one can think of several very good reasons why Maxon didn't purchase Jenna, the main one being that with the costs involved with purchasing and incorporating someone elses code they could provide tools built into the core quicker and better by doing it themselves.

I think people are forgetting here just who dumped who.

cheers, simon w.

I for one am not trying to bash Maxon. No doubt there are things going on behind the scenes that the user base is not aware of, that said, I have great respect for Darf and his work. I have never encountered any bs when dealing with him - heck, he even spent a half-hour on the phone with me to help fix a problem that wound up being a stupid mistake on my end. That was after Core had thrown in the towel!

As for the tools, there're here, they work, and the users are already familiar with them. Why re-invent the wheel? (Assuming that Maxon is actually working on their own version...) I can't imagine that it's cheaper to start from scratch - even the docs are done. It's not like Maxon hasn't incorporated Darf's tools before.

On a different note, has anyone actually gotten J2.24 to work? I have J2.22 and everything works as it should but when I replace it with 2.24, Jenna dissappears completely from the plug-ins menu (OSX 10.3.9). Also, for those that need them, there are/were pdfs for J1, J2.11, J2.22 and CPT. The ones for J2.22 and CPT should still be available in the downloads section of CoreArsenal's forums.
Edit: this last paragraph isn't meant to contradict the previous paragraph - I've never encountered any problems with J2.22. As far as I know J2.24 was never officially released.

cheers,
Marc Oliver

[unseenthings]

As for the tools, there're here, they work, and the users are already familiar with them. Why re-invent the wheel? (Assuming that Maxon is actually working on their own version...) I can't imagine that it's cheaper to start from scratch - even the docs are done. It's not like Maxon hasn't incorporated Darf's tools before.

Laying aside your last paragraph... consider that anyone who buys a new seat of cinema can't ue the existing tools. No more (working) serial numbers are being supplied, apparently. And that's presuming someone had one of the 3D World's that had Jenna... CPT, etc -- just gone. No app, no serials. I may well have imagined it, but I think I read in one of the 3D World magazines that CPT was going to be available for free after the 3 month Jenna promotion... I guess that offer has expired as well.

As far as easier to integrate existing code than building it from scratch.... well... all I can say is, no offense, but you're probably not a programmer. :) Any programmer will tell you it's not easy (at best) to pick up someone else's code and learn your way around it, much less to take it and integrate it as part of the core package of something like Cinema. Yes, it was written using the Cinema SDK, so how big could the changes be, right? Well, if I'm not mistaken, Jenna was written on 8.x SDK... that puts it 2-3 versions behind, presuming that there's a 9.5 SDK that just hasn't been released yet, and further changes to the SDK that will related to R10, and that SDK will be released some point after R10. So then you're talking about taking one (or several) packages that have literally years of code behind them, moving them to the newest SDK (and as they make changes in the underlying structure of the program, as they did for R9 and R9.5, and assuredly will for R10, it becomes less and less easy) and putting it through the paces to make sure it's up to Maxon's standards of integrating with everything, well tested, etc... when you consider the time and manpower involved to do that, *after* someone (or some people) have spent enough time getting familiar enough with the code to actually do it.... Yes, it may well be easier for them to write it from scratch. If you're taking someone else's code, especially when there's a lot of it, you're always going to be playing catch up... it's probably almost a given that no one at Maxon would *ever* know that code as well as Darf did... Why? Because he wrote it. Having someone at Maxon write the new code means they'll know it, inside and out. When there's a bug, they'll know where to look, have some immediate ideas about how to go about fixing it. When you're dealing with someone else's code, it's painful trying to find a bug sometimes even if you can replicate it every time.

I have immense respect for Darf & co. as well as Maxon. My guess is that Maxon wasn't just considering the price offered -- they were considering the whole price of integrating everything into the core package. Which would probably be significantly more than the "asking price." Which meant they had to offer significantly less than Darf wanted to give it up for. It's not really unreasonable for either side, and just one of those unfortunate things, if indeed, it played out this way.

Now... if it were a group of developers continuing to develop the plugins... that would be a different story from a lot of the above scenario for various reasons (that I won't go into because I probably lost everybody reading this already).

Just my $0.02 and humble opinions....

[darf]

I think people are forgetting here just who dumped who.
cheers, simon w.

Yep, like a 16 year old girl...

'giggles'...

Regards,
David Farmer

[darf]

...

darf

[AkaKico]

That is a sad story :(...
I never got to use Jenna except once when I started my new job. I never got 'hooked' but I can see so many uses for it. I hope something happens so it's functionality continues to be useable in the future.

Here's hoping!
Chris

[govinda]

Glad that was deleted. Too 'inside baseball' and likely to cause another bout of uninformed, wild speculation from the cheap seats.

Not that I haven't done some of that myself...

[darf]

Glad that was deleted. Too 'inside baseball' and likely to cause another bout of uninformed, wild speculation from the cheap seats.

Not that I haven't done some of that myself...


Kind of got that 'kick in the nether regions' feeling. Not exactly lashing out. hard to express my opinion ( or facts as they may be ) when watching speculation.

Apologies to the forum.

darf out

[Tank_3D_Attack]

Kind of got that 'kick in the nether regions' feeling. Not exactly lashing out. hard to express my opinion ( or facts as they may be ) when watching speculation.

Apologies to the forum.

darf out

Hi Darf,

Could you please check your e-mail or write me (check my profile). I would like to discuss some things with you. If you don't feel like it I understand but I still would like to have a chat with you about some issues.

Tank

[MJV]

And the Oscar for longest death scene in cinematic history goes to...

[Glyptic]

More than a bit of empathy here, darf.

I always keep my shirt on so the scares don't show. Nothing to do with Maxon, just *business as usual* with big corps. and unique things created by a dedicated spirit.

Best of luck to you.

L

[Rabbitroo]

And the Oscar for longest death scene in cinematic history goes to...

ROTFL! That was the laugh I needed today!

[TimC]

I've not even read this thread... so y'all can ignore me...

but I still use jenna and CPT everytime I can....

@darf - send me a mail, I've got something for you (and Dames)...

Let's hope everyone can still be creative.

Tim

[Glyptic]

And the Oscar for longest death scene in cinematic history goes to...


Oh, that's easy.
Orson Wells.

[Accipiter]

Laying aside your last paragraph... consider that anyone who buys a new seat of cinema can't ue the existing tools. No more (working) serial numbers are being supplied, apparently. And that's presuming someone had one of the 3D World's that had Jenna... CPT, etc -- just gone. No app, no serials. I may well have imagined it, but I think I read in one of the 3D World magazines that CPT was going to be available for free after the 3 month Jenna promotion... I guess that offer has expired as well.

As far as easier to integrate existing code than building it from scratch.... well... all I can say is, no offense, but you're probably not a programmer. :) Any programmer will tell you it's not easy (at best) to pick up someone else's code and learn your way around it, much less to take it and integrate it as part of the core package of something like Cinema. Yes, it was written using the Cinema SDK, so how big could the changes be, right? Well, if I'm not mistaken, Jenna was written on 8.x SDK... that puts it 2-3 versions behind, presuming that there's a 9.5 SDK that just hasn't been released yet, and further changes to the SDK that will related to R10, and that SDK will be released some point after R10. So then you're talking about taking one (or several) packages that have literally years of code behind them, moving them to the newest SDK (and as they make changes in the underlying structure of the program, as they did for R9 and R9.5, and assuredly will for R10, it becomes less and less easy) and putting it through the paces to make sure it's up to Maxon's standards of integrating with everything, well tested, etc... when you consider the time and manpower involved to do that, *after* someone (or some people) have spent enough time getting familiar enough with the code to actually do it.... Yes, it may well be easier for them to write it from scratch. If you're taking someone else's code, especially when there's a lot of it, you're always going to be playing catch up... it's probably almost a given that no one at Maxon would *ever* know that code as well as Darf did... Why? Because he wrote it. Having someone at Maxon write the new code means they'll know it, inside and out. When there's a bug, they'll know where to look, have some immediate ideas about how to go about fixing it. When you're dealing with someone else's code, it's painful trying to find a bug sometimes even if you can replicate it every time.

I have immense respect for Darf & co. as well as Maxon. My guess is that Maxon wasn't just considering the price offered -- they were considering the whole price of integrating everything into the core package. Which would probably be significantly more than the "asking price." Which meant they had to offer significantly less than Darf wanted to give it up for. It's not really unreasonable for either side, and just one of those unfortunate things, if indeed, it played out this way.

Now... if it were a group of developers continuing to develop the plugins... that would be a different story from a lot of the above scenario for various reasons (that I won't go into because I probably lost everybody reading this already).

Just my $0.02 and humble opinions....

Well, you didn't lose me but you're right I'm definitely no programmer, so no offense taken. Maybe my remark about "starting from scratch" wasn't too bright. Live 'n' learn. :shrug: All I know is that Maxon integrated some of Darf's tools in the past. I'm just ticked that some fantastic plugs are dying a slow death for all the wrong reasons.

cheers,
Marc Oliver

[Chrissyboy]

That is a sad story :(

Gah! Some real juice that gets deleted just before I get to read the damned stuff. Typical :sad:

Some interesting info anyway. @ Ascent: I'm not a programmer (well not since I got my Spectrum to scroll screen left & right :eek: ) but I assume that the issues that would confront the Maxon team in integrating darf's code would be much the same as any group of independent developers that banded together heroically to save the plug-ins from a slow death, irrespective of what assistance was offered by darf. In a way I'd say Maxon would have it easier, as they'd probably have been working alongside the author for some of Jenna's lifespan. The idea that you can just pick up the source code and start running with new features is surely as ridiculous whether you're talking about 'inside' or 'outside' developers.

Anyway, I'm just glad this is a really positive thread, as no-one here has yet come along and said 'oh - Jenna, huh, never really saw the point of that old plug, just like array wasn't it?' The planners at Maxon should be continually reminded exactly how many of their customers are dependent on tools like CPT, Jenna etc, and can take this seriously into consideration when allocating resources for the new versions to come.

Cheers! Chris

[unseenthings]

Gah! Some real juice that gets deleted just before I get to read the damned stuff. Typical :sad:

Some interesting info anyway. @ Ascent: I'm not a programmer (well not since I got my Spectrum to scroll screen left & right :eek: ) but I assume that the issues that would confront the Maxon team in integrating darf's code would be much the same as any group of independent developers that banded together heroically to save the plug-ins from a slow death, irrespective of what assistance was offered by darf. In a way I'd say Maxon would have it easier, as they'd probably have been working alongside the author for some of Jenna's lifespan. The idea that you can just pick up the source code and start running with new features is surely as ridiculous whether you're talking about 'inside' or 'outside' developers.

Right -- I don't think either group could just pick up the source code and start running with new features. My main point, which I guess I didn't really say, was that a group of developers would probably be able to throw more hours/manpower at the problems of fixing code, documenting things, determining what needed to be done where and such. I have no idea how many employees that Maxon has, but I know it's a fairly small company. I would guess that even if they did buy the source, they would only be able to devote one or maybe two people towards the integration of it. Whereas, if it was a group of 5 or 10 developers somewhat actively working on it and maybe another 5 or 10 people tinkering and playing around with the source, they'd probably get more done in the same 6 or 12 months that Maxon might -- simply because of more resources. And maybe my numbers are a little off as to who would be available and who would be interested in working on the code, but I would still think it might be more than Maxon could devote to it. That was my point.

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