CGTalk - Maya Games Reel 2002

Pedro

11-13-2002, 02:54 AM

Wow, that's just amazing. I wish there was some kind of compilation for these animations too - they're too worthy to be in games that will be forgotten soon. Does anything like that exist?

I only bought Tekken 4 for the animations. I hate the game, but I want to record the goodies.

Lunatique

11-13-2002, 03:12 AM

It seems to me the most exciting cg is all happening in games, not in feature films, televesion, or commercials.

Games have much broader style range and genres it seems. And visually, I find the game cinematics a lot more exciting than in film and others. I mean just look at the FF series. The FF movie was a real bore visually, while something like FF IX and FF X blows it out of the water stylistically.

Apt Pupil

11-13-2002, 04:26 AM

I certainly have to agree with you there Lunatique. I find that styles are alot more apealing than everyday realisism, or in ff the movie's case, attempt for realism. I love Final Fantasy 9. It's style and colors beats anything that could come out of disney and pixar.

erilaz

11-13-2002, 04:37 AM

Agreed, Apt Pupil! The depth of character and visual gobsmackedness in FF9 outmatched most motion pictures.

BrandonD

11-13-2002, 05:11 AM

Nice stuff, but does this mean that Maya is now a games tool? Just kidding! *Diving for cover...

AnimBot

11-13-2002, 06:52 AM

Nice friggin real. I can't wait till Xenosaga comes out. Yea I have to say right now is a very exciting time for games. It will be very interesting when the next generation of consoles come out and the line between realtime and prerendered will be very thin.

Norante

11-13-2002, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by Lunatique
It seems to me the most exciting cg is all happening in games, not in feature films, televesion, or commercials.

Games have much broader style range and genres it seems. And visually, I find the game cinematics a lot more exciting than in film and others. I mean just look at the FF series. The FF movie was a real bore visually, while something like FF IX and FF X blows it out of the water stylistically.

I share your feeling towards game animations. There is so much space for exploration that it scares me.

Videogames are the 8th art :)

Is-boset

11-13-2002, 10:48 AM

i know that maya is a good apps and i hear about his lovely NURBS system. but isn't the only one i see animated sequences made it in ligthwave and 3Dmax that are great, even in softimage, or who of you see intros of Blizzard (Diablo, Warcraft, Spacecraft)? They look really awesome and tehy are made in 3dmax.

sorry but discreet pay me (kiding) Maya is great, but i love 3dmax:D

hhmaya

11-13-2002, 11:04 AM

GOOD MAYA
GOOD FF
:thumbsup: :applause:

akewt

11-13-2002, 11:07 AM

ooooooohh, wow, thats great!!!

is no-one going to say anything slightly negative about it? what about the fact it was mostly pre-rendered stuff, and hardly any realtime, in game graphics. aswell, to be honest a lot of the stuff i didnt think was that great.

i know a lot of the dev companies are going to maya because of the drop in price, but i'm tempted to say the poly tools are just as good if not better in max? (opens a small can of worms)

Norante

11-13-2002, 12:40 PM

Well, I think its a matter of getting used to the tools. Maya has a "Game plugin package" thats damn good, and Bevel Plus (that integrated in 4.5 now).

I think that most important is to be able to deliver your vision... no matter what 3D package you like to use ;)

akewt

11-13-2002, 01:07 PM

very true norante :thumbsup:

Lunatique

11-13-2002, 01:30 PM

Jeez, when are people going to shut up about "this app did this, that app can't do that" blah blah blah?? :shame:

A talented artist can kick ass with a friggin crayon. Get over the tool and get back to creating! :D

ambient-whisper

11-13-2002, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by Apt Pupil
I certainly have to agree with you there Lunatique. I find that styles are alot more apealing than everyday realisism, or in ff the movie's case, attempt for realism. I love Final Fantasy 9. It's style and colors beats anything that could come out of disney and pixar.

i dunno man. personally i didnt think the colours in FF9 were at all better than monsters inc. that movie had some crazy lighting. ff10 had some beautiful compositions though.

akewt

11-13-2002, 02:13 PM

yes, my favourites at college were oil pastels. they were expensive but you could really lay them on thick and get messy with them. and the colour was always so vivid, like oil paints with out the hastel of drying time.

now i use a computer because it has greater scope and is more envolved. i also use max because the tools, i'm told by every publication i read, are better for poly modelling. thus, as a tool its geared towards the end result i'm trying to achieve. where as crayons probably wouldnt have the same effect.

did i say that out loud?

HapZungLam

11-13-2002, 02:48 PM

http://aliaswavefront.topdownloads.com/pub/bws/bws_79/320_MayaGamesReel2002.mov

see if you can download it.

Neural Riptide

11-13-2002, 02:50 PM

Akewt: I was wondering about the sequences myself.

As I only have a PS1, I don't know what game systems are capable of these days, but how much of the reel was rendered sequences as opposed to actual game scenes? Some of the stuff looked like in game sequences, but are some of the more realistic ones from the actual games as well? Has game technology reached that level yet?

akewt

11-13-2002, 03:02 PM

the games i saw that were in game were:

starwars: rougue leader
the toon shaded car game
colin mckae rally 3
american football (EA probably)
herdy gurdy
the sniper dude and a couple other short clips.

the rest was pre rendered. like the final fantasy type fmv's, although i dont know what game there from. a lot of them were fmv's, which in my opinion arent really game art because there not real time. also most DC's are using the in game graphics now for the fmv sequences.

graphiouz

11-13-2002, 03:13 PM

colin Mcrae3? nope i think it was 'RalliSport challenge' by Dice
(sort of looked like it was)

.

ambient-whisper

11-13-2002, 03:18 PM

herdy gerdy kicks ass :D

Mike RB

11-13-2002, 03:40 PM

Herdy gerdy was ok

Lunatique

11-13-2002, 03:56 PM

What difference does it make if it was pre-rendered or not? It's the game ENGINE that handles the rendering in realtime for the in-game stuff, not the 3D app that was used to generate the assets for the game anyway. If you want to say the in-game stuff didn't look so good, it's got NOTHING to do with what 3D app was used. Blame it on the programmers that programed the game engine for the particular game.

Game models, textures, lighting, animation...etc will look how they look in-game because of the GAME ENGINE. It doesn't matter what 3D app was used to create them.

Do I have to repeat it again? :D

akewt

11-13-2002, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by akewt
very true norante :thumbsup:

i actually agreed that it dosent matter what app. by the time you export to the engine its whether that engine is any good or not anyway.

pre rendered is old hat in games and it makes them look tacky. and there are alot in that reel. i would have liked to see more grabs from in game thats all.

all i was saying is that max is geared towards game design and always has been, maya has only recently jumped onboard. but if it makes geometry, it makes geometry.

please, i'm not that bothered.

basically, if i drive through the street with an audi rs4, i'm much more likely to pull a fit honey with juicey tits than if i drive through in a citroen 2cv. :cool:

actually make that a lexus.

Lunatique

11-13-2002, 04:17 PM

Hehe. I thought chicks screamed for VW Beetles?

Lee3dee

11-13-2002, 06:40 PM

The toom car shader game is called Auto Modellista by Capcom
http://ps2.ign.com/articles/368/368549p1.html

pants

11-13-2002, 07:55 PM

it's not my idea of a good time to get into app wars, but i just wanted to add some of my opinions. i've used max for umm 3 years maybe, just switched to maya in the past month and it's not really been an easy switch for me. i've got to agree with akewt, the toolset for maya hasn't really lent itself to poly modeling in the sense that max's has (from my brief experience). but from what i'm told, maya's animation setup is far superior to any program.

also, i just went to the AAA games roadshow where alias was demoing their latest stuff and they were talking about the games plugin package, which rocks, but it made me sad that it took this long for maya (essentially the industry leader) to include poly tools that have been with max since r4 maybe even r3. but, as i understand it, maya's been focusing on nurbs for far longer and well, max's nurbs...*cough*

anyway, long story short... if i were a games house, i wouldn't be switching to maya quite yet. if i were doing features with nurbs characters, i wouldn't switch to max quite yet. but inevitably, some studio somewhere will do amazing things with either package, so.... :)

Solesurvivor

11-13-2002, 08:07 PM

yay to rinoa heartlilly :love:

rendermonkey23

11-13-2002, 08:48 PM

ugh
I don't know why everybody gets all hot and bothered when it comes to app wars. I agree they don't go anywhere... but there still fun... plus I think some people might actually learn something here and there from them.

But!..... that's not the point here. :beer:

Lunatique

11-14-2002, 01:20 AM

pants- Have you downloaded the MJ Poly Tools yet?

The must have plugins for Maya modelling are:

Bonus Game Tools
MJ Poly Tools
Power Poly Tools
Claydough Magnet
Planarize

It's kinda like how Max users can't live without Meshtools. ;)

Head on over to highend3d.com to grab them.

pants

11-14-2002, 04:06 AM

:eek: something good came from an app war?!

just kidding, thanks so much for the advice on the melscripts/plugins. i'll hastily check them out. i have the bonus game pack already, learned about them last week.

thanks again :beer:

Rudity

11-14-2002, 05:37 AM

How the hell did this thread turn into an app war about max vs maya?
BLAH!!!

Is-boset

11-14-2002, 09:53 AM

O.K.
i never want that thread turns into a apps war, but i appologize to everybody and at the same time thanks to:
Rudity
Pants
Lunatique
Rendermonkey23
Soulsurvivor
Hirigashi
Akwet
Mike RB
Ambient-whisper
Graphiouz
Hhmaya
Neutral-riptide
HapZungLam
AnimBot
BrandonD
Erilaz
Apt pupil
Pedro
Facial

And specially to:
Norante

Norante

11-14-2002, 11:56 AM

Any time, friend :beer:

beaker

11-14-2002, 07:43 PM

>>but it made me sad that it took this long for maya (essentially the industry leader) to include poly tools that have been with max since r4 maybe even r3.

Actually about 3/4 of those bonus games tools have been available for maya since version 1.0/2.0(3-4 years ago) as separate downloads. A/w just organized them into one big pack with a menu of its own for that release.

Neural Riptide

11-14-2002, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by Lunatique
What difference does it make if it was pre-rendered or not? It's the game ENGINE that handles the rendering in realtime for the in-game stuff, not the 3D app that was used to generate the assets for the game anyway. If you want to say the in-game stuff didn't look so good, it's got NOTHING to do with what 3D app was used. Blame it on the programmers that programed the game engine for the particular game.

I guess I missunderstood the purpose of the reel. :(

I was under the impression that it was made to show how Maya could be used to create game characters/objects/etc.
You can use any app for the animations in a game, but I thought they were trying to show how Maya's tools could make the game elements. If this was the aim, it seems pointless to show sequences that were not taken in-game, but pre-rendered.

:shrug:

Twisted-Imperial

11-14-2002, 10:13 PM

heh quite some discutions i just want to point something out someone said those great cinematics from blizzard who uses 3dstudio max, actually they use a nubmer of apps, and alot of major companies do this, they may vouch for one company but doesnt mean that half the guys in the studio use maya, about a year ago blizzard had on there job requirements that you had to know max and or maya. but now its back to max, guess they paid highest price :D

anyways the point is get comfterble(sp?) with the software you like, play with them all see what they can and cant do, pick for you self :D

anyways its a killer real makes me wanna watch some of those ff moviesm the animations looked very well done, flueint and good motion in general

nayways
peace

ambient-whisper

11-14-2002, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by Twisted Imperia
heh quite some discutions i just want to point something out someone said those great cinematics from blizzard who uses 3dstudio max, actually they use a nubmer of apps, and alot of major companies do this, they may vouch for one company but doesnt mean that half the guys in the studio use maya, about a year ago blizzard had on there job requirements that you had to know max and or maya. but now its back to max, guess they paid highest price :D

anyways the point is get comfterble(sp?) with the software you like, play with them all see what they can and cant do, pick for you self :D

anyways its a killer real makes me wanna watch some of those ff moviesm the animations looked very well done, flueint and good motion in general

nayways
peace

huh?
umm no. they got more than one office actually. the guys that made war3 used max. while the guys that are working on WoW. are using maya. ( and maybe max too ). just because a job is displayed and the requirement says max...doesnt mean they will hire you for both offices ;)

Twisted-Imperial

11-14-2002, 10:35 PM

no i didnt mean that just because you know both theyll hire u and maybe my htoughts are too confusing sometimes i dont excatly know how to express what im trying to say.
but are u sure they only use max for war 3 i talked to someone who works at blizzard and they said it doesnt matter what software that you use they just convert the mesh like between max and maya. but i could be wrong too just what i was told

ambient-whisper

11-14-2002, 10:57 PM

ya ofcourse it doesnt matter what you use :) its personal preference right:) but anyway. someone from blizzard posted here back during the summer a few times and he said that max was the main thing. 2.5 at the beginning of production and 3 for the rest.

rendermonkey23

11-15-2002, 03:22 AM

uhg... I seriously don't know how there using 2.5 or 3 for that amazing work.

anything before 4.2 is horrible compared to what is it now.

btw, I don't know how anyone can consider claydough magnet to be anything close to actual magnets or soft-selection. It's horrible and slow. Plain out sucky.

ok I feel better now... thanks. :)

ambient-whisper

11-15-2002, 03:38 AM

agreed. and even the max magnet sucks :D haha

rendermonkey23

11-15-2002, 03:49 AM

haha martin... you suck ;)

Maybe not as powerful as mirai's but it's WAYYYYY better than claydough's crap ass :D

ambient-whisper

11-15-2002, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by rendermonkey23
haha martin... you suck ;)

Maybe not as powerful as mirai's but it's WAYYYYY better than claydough's crap ass :D

:D you bet your ass its not as good as mirais :D

k me go back to sleep mode.

Is-boset

11-15-2002, 10:37 AM

maya has a great cinematic in games but i don't see the difference in games cause is restringed by the console i guess.
i see last month the intro for FF XI and looks great, and i think that they could make another movie, doesn't like a game intro (in a good way)

Norante

11-17-2002, 02:40 PM

My friends

I would like to let you know that I did not starde this thread with "3D package wars" in mind.

We all know that everytime this happens, people walk away offended, because we take our package of choice seriously.

I would like to ask all of you to NOT flame this anymore. Peace, peace :)

Airflow

11-19-2002, 04:25 PM

There is a simple answer to all this, learn more than one package..
The only packages I have not learned are Lightwave, (which Im dabbling in now) and Houdini, so I dont really get involved in the fracas of all this, mines is better than yours, crap.
All software is imperfect, its how you get around the imperfections that betters you as a 3d artist.
Having said that, Make all software faster...:scream: