CGTalk - Upcoming celshaded "Appleseed" film...uses realtime graphics?

playmesumch00ns

11-12-2002, 08:42 AM

I think it must just be a name conflict, the Quake 3(wasn't it?) trinity engine has been around for a while, whereas in the article they refer to "new" technology. Mind you, that doesn't mean they're right!

Using a game engine is feasible, if a little ridiculous. It doesn't have to be realtime, just because you're using a realtime engine, for instance it's quite easy to write a radiosity renderer with OpenGL, but it's not going to run in realtime. I think this trinity thing must be some kind of funky cel-shader

Fasty

11-13-2002, 04:33 AM

I can't play those movie files! what are they, .omg files or something? I downloaded the codec, but now I'm stumped :S can anyone help?

Celshader

11-13-2002, 05:50 AM

Originally posted by Fasty
I can't play those movie files! what are they, .omg files or something? I downloaded the codec, but now I'm stumped :S can anyone help?

They stumped me at first, too, but I had thought it was just me. I finally got them playing in the Windows Media Player, but I first had to install the XviD video codec and the Vobis OGG audio codec. Both codecs are open source, so I had an easier time finding source code on each codec's official site than compiled versions of the codecs.

For Windows, try downloading the XviD codec here:
http://www.divx-digest.com/software/xvid.html

...and the OGG audio codec here:
http://www.riphelp.com/downloads/ogg_codec.html

---

For what it's worth, the Appleseed page also has a trailer in .WMV format. It doesn't look as good, and it's short, but you won't have to install any obscure codecs to view it on the Windows Media Player.

red_oddity

11-13-2002, 02:36 PM

The AC codec download is down and no media player uses the video codec...

Why would they use such an unorthodox format to show their work?

Anyway, anyone got a good tip on to get this stuff viewable?

Celshader

11-13-2002, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by red_oddity
The AC codec download is down and no media player uses the video codec...

Download the so-called "Directshow filter" from the same OGG link -- that's what I did.

Even after installing XviD, Media Player refused to play the .OGM files until I had the audio codec installed. Once I had both up and running, it worked fine (though the audio on the OGM files squeaks in some places...)

I have no idea why this guy didn't use DivX or QuickTime, unless he uses Linux.

RobinOberg

11-13-2002, 08:57 PM

crappy animated and poorly lighted and badly textured.
nice rendering, works fine in still-images...
the cel-shading is areally out of place.
reminds me of the crappy cel-shaded anime Platonic Chain, *brr*

why cant they do it like Hoshi No Koe? now thats one beautiful cel-shaded anime...

RobinOberg

11-13-2002, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by Celshader
I have no idea why this guy didn't use DivX or QuickTime, unless he uses Linux.

cause ogg is open-sourced, and im sure he hasnt got the cash to buy a divx encoding package ;)

Celshader

11-13-2002, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by RobinOberg
crappy animated and poorly lighted and badly textured.
nice rendering, works fine in still-images...

That's why I was wondering if the animation was somehow created in realtime...that "advanced realtime anime-motion engine" description at the beginning of each trailer gives me pause.

Originally posted by RobinOberg
the cel-shading is areally out of place.
reminds me of the crappy cel-shaded anime Platonic Chain, *brr*

why cant they do it like Hoshi No Koe? now thats one beautiful cel-shaded anime...

Hoshi No Koe used celshading only for its mecha -- Makoto Shinkai drew his characters by hand. I agree that it's gorgeous, though...I look forwards to picking it up on DVD.

I'm curious to see how Platonic Chain turned out...all I saw of its celshaded characters were one or two stills. Any websites or online clips out there?

slaughters

11-13-2002, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by RobinOberg
... he hasnt got the cash to buy a divx encoding package ;) Last I heard Divx was just a codec you could download for free. If you can make AVI's, then you just select the DivX codec to be used. No reason to purchase an "encoding package"

Mechaman

11-14-2002, 05:21 AM

Divx is not free for commercial/professional use. Also, the "encoding package" includes things that are pretty much basic(and free) elsewhere, like two-pass encoding; which they want you either to ante up, or use adware for. Sorta like Sorenson.

As an aside, the "Ogg audio codec" is actually the collection of stream-support filters for Ogg files(since Ogg itself can be a file-package like Quicktime). Try opening it up in Graphedit, or looking at "Properties" in WMP(you can even get a funky systray icon as well).

If it was an actual AVI, you could change the fourcc to DivX, and playback XviD-encoded video using the DivX filter, since they're both MPEG4 implementations(Xvid even includes some compatibility methods if you want to go this route; the advanced anime music video creators are starting to do this).
This guy just decided to package it all up as an Ogg(it looks like his encoders were pretty crap, though).

What I'd actually like to see somewhere is the Gunmm Motorball clip. These clips are fairly boring, especially if you've read the original Appleseed.

slaughters

11-14-2002, 11:54 AM

My understanding is that DivX is free for personal use. I would argue that the posting of this video falls under that category.

In either case there is no difference in functionality between the professional/commercial package and the personal one. It's just a matter of how much you pay. If you plan to make money selling a product, then they want you to pay more for the license.

P.S. If you are an Indie film maker then they even wave the commercial license cost. Click here (http://www.divx.com/divx/licensing/indies/) for more details.

red_oddity

11-14-2002, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by MaDSheeP
if they were rendered in real time, that would be amazing for an animated series..

How so? You would still have to animate it all in some fase of the production pipeline...Seen from a production stance, nothing really changes (maybe only rendering costs.)
The only thing that really changes is the medium it is being played back from, wether it's from 35mm celluloid or from a harddisk in realtime from a computer (would it still be amazing if that computer would be an Origin 3000 with a couple of hundred processors and a terrabyte of memory?)...

arjan_meerten

11-15-2002, 03:04 AM

Hi (Red)

Downloading the latest version of the nimo pack (http://www.btinternet.com/~nimosiro/) is a good way to get this movies working.
This installer is a collection of al the latest exotic codecs.

The trailers look ok, but I don't understand why they use cellshading on the the main character but not on the other characters.
Check out the new series from ghost in the shell (http://www.production-ig.com/Ghost_TV.html). Here they use cellshading very effectively.

red_oddity

11-15-2002, 09:15 AM

Hi arjan, how goes...
don't you worry, i've seen the trailers (it was the audio codec afterall), i must say, i'm a bit disappointed, the animation (motion capture or whatever it is) seems too slow and the cellshading looks completely out off place (it actually makes the characters ugly)

btw, will you be coming over some day again, got some cool stuff going on with UnrealEd3 (UT2003 editor rocks...in combination with LW it works so much better than UEd2), maybe some weekend again (still working my ass off on Audi projects)

RobertoOrtiz

12-08-2003, 10:21 PM

Here is the trailer:

http://kokaku.free.fr/share/Appleseed_CG_movie-Trailer.wmv

-R

pomru

12-20-2003, 06:52 AM

A new Appleseed trailer is now available: http://www.a-seed.jp/trailer.html

playmesumch00ns

12-20-2003, 11:26 AM

That looks like it could be pretty damn cool to me!

Is it a new story, or are they basing it off the books?

onlooker

03-25-2004, 03:52 AM

Sorry if I sound like a puts, but I'm just getting into cell shading. But from what I've seen of the trailer at Apple.co.jp Japan (Quicktime trailer) (http://www.apple.co.jp/quicktime/trailers/appleseed_large.html)
Appleseed is the the most inspiring, and exciting cell animation I've seen.
I'm wondering how they got it to look so damn good. What applications, and tools are they using. Where can I find that out? I think it looks awesome.
:buttrock:

acidboy

03-25-2004, 04:53 AM

The first trailer that was posted in this thread (the mpeg one) was clearly in the early stages of development....I've never seen it before actually. So no wonder it looks so bad.

Before ya pass judgement check out the lastest trailer that onlooker mentioned.

Onlooker: It was done with XSI and it's toon shaders.

onlooker

03-25-2004, 05:28 AM

Originally posted by acidboy
The first trailer that was posted in this thread (the mpeg one) was clearly in the early stages of development....I've never seen it before actually. So no wonder it looks so bad.

Before ya pass judgement check out the lastest trailer that onlooker mentioned.

Onlooker: It was done with XSI and it's toon shaders.

I'm not as dumb as I act acidboy. :bounce: I realized they were toon shaders. I think I should have rephrased that question.
What I'm saying is it just looked really good for cell. I always thought cell animations were a little flatter, and less 3D looking, and more toonish. They brought out some dynamic light, and shadows within the movements. It just looks fantastic. I have to watch it again now.

F3EF73

03-25-2004, 05:28 AM

I agree it looks really bad. Should have stuck with the original Appleseed or Ghost in the Shell style.

acidboy

03-25-2004, 05:39 AM

Onlooker: Wohhh hold ya horses matey! :surprised

U asked what tools were used so I was just letting ya know that it was done with xsi and *its* toon shader not a 3rd party plugin etc.

Also before anyone goes saying how bad the film looks, check out the offical trailer.

http://www.apple.co.jp/quicktime/trailers/appleseed_large.html

It's practically a whole different film compared to that old cruddy teaser.

luceric

03-26-2004, 02:51 PM

Appleseed is a very low budget film, not the same amount of budget that other bigger Anime have had. It's a tour-de-force of production.

It was originally attempted with a real time engine, but that was dropped and completely redone with more conventionnal toon shading using Softimage toon shaders